Air France plane lost in the Atlantic

[Roadkill]

Some in the media were speculating that the passengers might be sitting around in liferafts. Perhaps the sad smiley users shared that hope?

Not me. There's only one likely outcome when an airliner disappears, especially over the ocean.

I agree with Spymaster - finding the wreckage is a positive development: at least it means the families of those aboard might find out what actually happened to them.

The was just because ... well, I don't know tbh. It's confirmation of the disaster, even if there was never any real doubt it had happened.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Would the black box float?

How deep is the ocean there? Would one of those DSVs be able to go down far enough to retrieve it if it had sunk?

 

[laptop]

Would the black box float?

Since it's firmly fixed to the fuselage, which won't, there's little point in it floating.

And why's it firmly fixed? I think because most crashes are on land (near airports, to be exact) and it helps finding the damn thing.

How deep is the ocean there? Would one of those DSVs be able to go down far enough to retrieve it if it had sunk?

Can't remember where I saw this, but around 2000 metres?

Robot submarines are on their way, but the debris field(s) span 60km so there's an awful lot of deep ocean floor to look at...

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Since it's firmly fixed to the fuselage, which won't, there's little point in it floating.

And why's it firmly fixed? I think because most crashes are on land (near airports, to be exact) and it helps finding the damn thing.



Can't remember where I saw this, but around 2000 metres?

Robot submarines are on their way, but the debris field(s) span 60km so there's an awful lot of deep ocean floor to look at...

oh right, just wondered

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I'm not sure why everyone here seems to be going on about how air france will want to go into this all that deep. It's Airbus that's going to be bricking itself, it didn't take much to kill off McDonald Douglass all that time back, if that plane gets bad press then they're in a world of hurt.

 

[nick h.]

Perhaps because Air France are responsible for flying and maintaining the aircraft?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Air France is small fry.

 

[nick h.]

Since it's firmly fixed to the fuselage, which won't, there's little point in it floating.

And why's it firmly fixed? I think because most crashes are on land (near airports, to be exact) and it helps finding the damn thing.



Can't remember where I saw this, but around 2000 metres?

Robot submarines are on their way, but the debris field(s) span 60km so there's an awful lot of deep ocean floor to look at...

The press are saying the max. depth in that area is about 14,000 feet. A couple of years ago a black box was retrieved from 16,000 feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295#Reopening_the_inquiry

 

[Roadkill]

Air France is small fry.

Not really. It's a big operator, the French flag carrier and I imagine that its management are very concerned about the impact of the disaster on its image. The last thing it needs is for passengers to be scared off flying with it, with things as tight for airlines as they are at the moment.

 

[T & P]

I'm not sure why everyone here seems to be going on about how air france will want to go into this all that deep. It's Airbus that's going to be bricking itself.

I doubt it to be honest. The A330 is one of the safest aircraft ever made with an astonishing safety record. Unless a fundamental and previously unknown flaw is identified as the cause, it is far more probable the accident was caused by either an extremely rare set of circumstances, or mechanical failure due to inadequate maintenance.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Operator vs Manufacturer. Airbus is still wobbly after the 380 delays isn't it? The last thing they'll want is problems with cancelled orders over this and it is possible that the press will run with it and slate the design.

 

[nick h.]

The press have got absolutely nothing to go on when it comes to faulting the design. If they're going to start flinging blame around it will be to suggest poor procedures for avoiding bad weather, perhaps driven by pressure from management not to waste fuel, poor maintenance, poor training of the crew, all of which are Air France's responsibility.

 

[T & P]

Operator vs Manufacturer. Airbus is still wobbly after the 380 delays isn't it? The last thing they'll want is problems with cancelled orders over this.

The last thing any manufacturer wants is problems. But unless a very serious design fault is identified, it will be of no consequence to Airbus. Boeing has had shit loads of 737s down over the years, not all of them due to human or maintenance issues by any means. And the safety of the widely used 777 has been questioned by many experts after that BA bird fell short of Heathrow after the engines were inexplicably starved of fuel.

In fact just about all models from Airbus, Boeing and other manufactures have had crashes related to design faults. Unless it becomes endemic within a short period of time, like it did with the Comets in the 1960s, Airbus and the A330 model have no reason for concern.

 

[Roadkill]

The press have got absolutely nothing to go on when it comes to faulting the design. If they're going to start flinging blame around it will be to suggest poor procedures for avoiding bad weather, perhaps driven by pressure from management not to waste fuel, poor maintenance, poor training of the crew, all of which are Air France's responsibility.

This is true.

I suppose it's too much to hope for, however, that they'll hold off 'flinging blame around' until investigators have had chance at least to find out what happened...

 

[john x]

I suppose it's too much to hope for, however, that they'll hold off 'flinging blame around' until investigators have had chance at least to find out what happened...

All parties will get a huge rocket up their arses if they attempt anything like that before the final report comes out.

john x

 

[paolo]

Yep. Accident investigations are taken very seriously in the industry. Expect Airbus and AF to say little/nothing in advance of official findings.

 

[nick h.]

New theories are emerging. These stories from the Beeb and the Daily Mail are worth reading:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8083474.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...r-France-jet-say-red-faced-investigators.html

The short version is that ice may have caused the air speed indicator to give the wrong reading, so the pilot may have been flying through the storm at the wrong speed. Various systems failed, making the aircraft very hard to fly. It stalled, tumbled violently through the turbulent air and broke up. The pilot of another plane may have seen it.

Looks bad not just for Airbus but for all modern airliners which rely heavily on computers.

 

[xes]

Did this plane go down anywhere near the Bermuda Triangle?

 

[g force]

Geography fail Xes....tut tut....

 

[Spymaster]

Did this plane go down anywhere near the Bermuda Triangle?

About 2000 miles south west of the BT.

 

[rikwakefield]

About 2000 miles south west of the BT.

it's growing!!!

 

[nick h.]

Bodies recovered

Media reports say two bodies, a seat, an Air France ticket and a laptop have been recovered.