Fisher_Gate
Active Member
The SWP explanation focussed on the fact that no other Labour MP other than Galloway joined Respect and therefore it was doomed. Just as daft but not the same as the "communalist" argument.
After next May when it's all gone tits up
- Thread starter articul8
- Start date
The SWP explanation focussed on the fact that no other Labour MP other than Galloway joined Respect and therefore it was doomed. Just as daft but not the same as the "communalist" argument.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It partially did, it also concentrated on a reformist communalism (leadership at least) in certain areas shifting the party to the right (!) and tying it to institutional expressions of reformism such as the labour party. But if it's only Paul and others that you're calling more than racist then fine - i want to know what more than racist means.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
The Labour Party is actually the logical extension of that. How do you explain Labour's desire to retain universal postal voting for example, compared to Respect's call for it to be abolished if it is Respect who have the "communalist" approach and Labour who do not?
That different ethnic and religious communities exist is an obvious truism. That their political organisation extends into all voting the same way is plain wrong.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
I never used that phrase - I said "more than a hint", meaning that it was verging on a racist attitude to say that bangladeshis do what the mosque and businessmen say.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
So in other words Respect could split the Labour vote and help the Tories. Exactly what Galloway is accusing No2Eu of!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
More than a hint? Surely then you simply mean racist? Just say it.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Which was shown to be totally and utterly specious when the four councillors who the SWP encouraged to split, two of whom were SWP members at the time and tied to their discipline, subsequently joined the Tories and New Labour where they are all still happily ensconced, including as cabinet members, Deputy Mayor etc.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
When? Galloway said that No2EU were wrong to stand in the North West and should have campaigned for the Greens to beat Griffin. Nothing to do with Tory and Labour.
Did you mean "SonofNo2EU"?
Paul Marsh
NeitherWashingtonNorMecca
But state multi-culturalism is predicated on the practice of rewards being given for a significant chunk of X community voting the same way.
You present a red herring by raising the Labour Party.
You know as well as I do the Muslim vote could just as easily flip from Respect to Labour, or Labour to Respect, or Labour to the Lib Dems depending on the forces within certain Mosques, extended families or business circles.
Just look at the politcal versions of the okey-cokey we have seen in Tower Hamlets, between all parties in the past decade.
That is inner-city politics in many areas today.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think it show that only if you take the sort of internal view that you do that there was ever two sides within RESPECT. If you look at it, as many here did, from outside there was only ever one side - both sides riddled with common contradictions, contradictions that would and did play themselves out no matter who 'won'. For example - how many councillors/supporters have your side lost to labour as well?
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
yes, he's criticising SonofNo2EU for splitting the vote and helping the Tories - when Respect is doing exactly that in PandL.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Some of us have been doing that since the mid 1990s.
Problem was, that at that time all we heard from the rest of "the left" was "go on, give them a chance", and the same goons are still churning out the same rhetoric, either in terms of beating the tories, or keeping the BNP out.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Only if the Labour Party don't contest any seats.
Because of the volume of Labour MPs stepping down at the next GE, with the concomitant volume of placemen, knobbers and apparatchiks being stood in those constituencies, there's at least a possibility that they're going to lose 30-50 safe-ish seats on that account alone, notwithstanding any losses in marginals, so the possibility of the Lib-Dems holding the balance of power is tangible, although I agree that they're highly unlikely to become the 2nd party.
Labour have the potential to regain some ground between now and the next General Election.
Haven't had a chance to analyse the Queens Speech in depth yet, but one of the proposed policies - equal rights for agency workers - has the potential to be a real vote winner.
If they won, it would be a very slender win. Or could be a hung Parliament.
Whatever happens, they would probably have to form a Lib-Lab coalition (which would explain the overtures over the past several months towards the Lib Dems).
Cameron is starting to come across as rather hard, tough and mean. Like a cross between Norman Tebbit and Errol Flynn. I think his image men thought that coming across a bit more hard-nosed and emulating the haircut of Nick Griffin might be a good idea somehow to try and mop up some potential BNP voters or something.
If Labour outright lost to the Tories, then Brown would probably step down as leader quickly afterwards. If it was a slender win and a coalition was formed with the Lib Dems, he might well resign quickly afterwards then too and hand over the torch to Ed Milband. Deputy Prime Minister in that scenario would probably be Nick Clegg, but he is a bit light weight and wishy washy. Their might well be moves to replace him within the Lib Dems within the year.
To be honest, I think there is a actually strong argument for introducing legislation, in this time of national economic emergency, for delaying the General Election for a year to give Labour's economic policies, and the Bank of England's stimulus measures etc time to work.
There is an old saying "too many cooks can spoil the broth". If the Tories get in next summer and start quickly meddling about with savage cutbacks in public spending, then we could see the Great Recession rapidly enter a double dipper.
Having avoided a second Great Depression under Labour's stewardship, Tory 'scorched earth' economic policies might end up steering us into one after all.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It'd be stupid to assume that's the case, but equally stupid to denying that it may play some part in voting patterns, and not just in Bengali communities, but in communities of any ethnicity where there is strong community leadership.
Try blowing your nose more often.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
goebfwi - I don't rule out the possibility of a hung parliament but think it's unlikely Labour will be the largest party, and in those circumstances it would be almost impossible for their to be a Lib-Lab coalition.
I think a minority Tory administration propped up by Lib support on an issue by issue basis (rather than formal pact) is the next most likely outcome to an outright Tory majority.
I think a minority Tory administration propped up by Lib support on an issue by issue basis (rather than formal pact) is the next most likely outcome to an outright Tory majority.
N_igma
Epistemic nuisance
Europe simply won't be an issue for the Tories before May, there's too much at stake for anyone in the party to raise the issue.
It all depends if the Tories win by a landslide, if they do then the remaining Labour MP's will scurry back to their constituencies and fight there to hold onto their place, more or less giving the Tories at least two terms in office.
If they scrape through then Labour can think about reorganising, getting a new leader etc but it all remains to be seen.
It all depends if the Tories win by a landslide, if they do then the remaining Labour MP's will scurry back to their constituencies and fight there to hold onto their place, more or less giving the Tories at least two terms in office.
If they scrape through then Labour can think about reorganising, getting a new leader etc but it all remains to be seen.
Lib Dems could conceivably come second - which is terrifying, Clegg vs Cameron? Might as well put a mirror there like a fucking budgie
thanks i had agood chuckle at that brighten up dull day
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
You're making it up.
Respect's position is that where the left has a credible candidate standing against New Labour (as distinct from a Labour left winger like McDonnell), they should be backed by the whole of the left whether it's a marginal seat or not.
For example: Galloway and Respect back Caroline Lucas in Brighton Pavilion. It is a three way marginal; in 2005 it was Lab 35%, Tory 24%, Green 22%. Some Labour people might argue a strong Green campaign might let the Tories in. But the Greens have a chance of winning the seat and Respect believes that the election of Caroline Lucas as an MP would be a very positive step forward. The Alliance for Green Socialism, one of the parties in SonofNo2EU, got 0.4%. That is not a credible vote. They should drop out and give the Greens a free run - campaign for the Greens too.
I don't see what the problem with that position is.
Leave aside the issue that Galloway actually already represents part of P&L as the sitting MP.
what reasons? there is nothing patently obvious to me
Galloway has specifically mentioned Nellist- as to Bannister depends where and what chance he has of getting a decent vote
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The only problem with that policy is that Brown personally, and the NL government generally, led the opposition in Europe (and in Parliament, where IIRC they worked against a Private Members Bill brought by a Labour MP) to agency workers having those rights.
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sh...3&highlight=agency+workers+rights#post6863203
For him and them to now say they are in favour of this is hypocritical beyond belief.
I think that's exactly StoatBoy's point.
The majority of political posts on these forums represent positions which will never be attractive to more than a small minority of British voters.
This is all quite prevalent: awhile ago, elements of the Somali community here (i'm sure not all) met in a local community hall and decided to give its its 'support' to one particular party. The GP are aware of even more problematic behaviour but are too worried about speaking out.
To deny this happens is to patronise BEM's they should be held tothe same standards as anyone else, fuck cultural relativism,etc.
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