Africa

[fela fan]

Been to Morocco, Libya, Mali and Nigeria. Next trip will be going back there, defintely. It's a shame that so many of the countries are messed up.

But how many african countries are actually messed up? It's a genuine question. Perhaps we could find out more accurately on this thread since it's got so many posters putting up their experiences on the great continent. Perhaps between everybody we could paint a more realistic picture of africa as a sort of related tangent to the thread.

It's patently obvious the DRC (congo) is fucked up, and we could say that kenya is not in great shape. But is that deep-rooted? I didn't see enough on my last trip there, but i do recall a rather desperate attitude to life in nanyuki, about the only non-tourist town i managed on that trip.

So, to the posters that have been to african countries, which ones would you say are as fucked up as we are led to believe by media? My guess is that well over half the countries are no more fucked up than anywhere else in the world.

 

[fela fan]

Yeah, you're probably right. I was thinking of Mombassa, I reckon its pretty safe there.

If you do go to kenya mate, i urge you to also consider malindi, not so far from mombassa. I was only there for about five days, but how i wished i had five months instead. I'd hop back on a plane tomorrow if it was that easy.

I will duly try and find out the safari i went on. I think it was in the serengeti, but i'll check. Either way it was out of this world, starting with the sunrises with elephants and giraffes walking across this huge great orange/pink globe emerging from the horizon...

 

[rover07]

Been to Morocco... it's shit.

 

[Yossarian]

My guess is that well over half the countries are no more fucked up than anywhere else in the world.

What's that guess based on? I don't think the whole continent just one big land mass of unrelenting misery, but if you're going by indicators like malnutrition, disease, infant mortality etc., then most African countries do, sadly, rank among the most fucked-up ones in the world - with the fucked-upness very often aggravated by ethnic conflict, stemming from European colonial powers having carved up the continent pretty much at random.

 

[Melinda]

Been to Morocco... it's shit.

Pithy and succinct.

 

[fela fan]

What's that guess based on? I don't think the whole continent just one big land mass of unrelenting misery, but if you're going by indicators like malnutrition, disease, infant mortality etc., then most African countries do, sadly, rank among the most fucked-up ones in the world - with the fucked-upness very often aggravated by ethnic conflict, stemming from European colonial powers having carved up the continent pretty much at random.

It's tempting (if unfortunate) to agree with what you say, but i just thought we might find a clearer picture on this thread since so many posters have been to african countries.

I guess as ever i prefer to listen to the direct experiences of people rather than invest too much faith in what the media say.

 

[Yossarian]

It definitely seemed like life there was plenty of ethnic tension and life was very tough indeed for a great many people in Kenya when I was there - and that's in the place that used to be hailed as one of the continent's success stories. I don't think the experiences of random travellers is going to paint all that accurate a picture of any country's problems though - most of the worst poverty and suffering is in remote rural areas, a long way from any backpacker trail.

 

[phildwyer]

But how many african countries are actually messed up? It's a genuine question.

I wouldn't want to live in any of them to be honest. Obviously most places are alright to visit, even war zones, but there are six or seven countries (DRC, Liberia, Zim, Algeria etc) in Africa in which I wouldn't set foot. Somewhere like Tanzania, Zambia, Senegal or Cameroon would probably be alright (although a mate of mine was kidnapped in Senegal--from the airport), but I don't fancy Nigeria much, and you have to be bloody careful in South African cities. I'm getting more conservative in my holiday choices anyway, so I've pretty much narrowed it down to Kenya or Ghana. And I suppose Gambia if I see a cheap package deal.

 

[sleaterkinney]

So, to the posters that have been to african countries, which ones would you say are as fucked up as we are led to believe by media? My guess is that well over half the countries are no more fucked up than anywhere else in the world.

Are you having a laugh?.

 

[Melinda]

I wouldn't want to live in any of them to be honest. Obviously most places are alright to visit, even war zones, but there are six or seven countries (DRC, Liberia, Zim, Algeria etc) in Africa in which I wouldn't set foot. Somewhere like Tanzania, Zambia, Senegal or Cameroon would probably be alright (although a mate of mine was kidnapped in Senegal--from the airport), but I don't fancy Nigeria much, and you have to be bloody careful in South African cities. I'm getting more conservative in my holiday choices anyway, so I've pretty much narrowed it down to Kenya or Ghana. And I suppose Gambia if I see a cheap package deal.

Ghana! Ghana!

BTW Phil, you would go to Colombia but not Algeria?

 

[Biddlybee]

I've lived/been to: Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, and South Africa. Would love to go to Mozambique, Senegal and Ethiopia.

 

[ringo]

Once, went though Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso and Ghana. Loved it, wish I'd been taught Malian history at school instead of European.

 

[chilango]

But how many african countries are actually messed up? It's a genuine question. Perhaps we could find out more accurately on this thread since it's got so many posters putting up their experiences on the great continent. Perhaps between everybody we could paint a more realistic picture of africa as a sort of related tangent to the thread.

It's patently obvious the DRC (congo) is fucked up, and we could say that kenya is not in great shape. But is that deep-rooted? I didn't see enough on my last trip there, but i do recall a rather desperate attitude to life in nanyuki, about the only non-tourist town i managed on that trip.

So, to the posters that have been to african countries, which ones would you say are as fucked up as we are led to believe by media? My guess is that well over half the countries are no more fucked up than anywhere else in the world.

Sudan is pretty much screwed. despite the new mall.

 

[Melinda]

Once, went though Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso and Ghana. Loved it, wish I'd been taught Malian history at school instead of European.

We did a term of stuff on the Mali Kingdom and empire, but I didnt go to a state school. We had artists, storytellers, dancers and musicians come in.

Love the music of Ghana, Congo and Senegal.

Rich rollings guitars- hi life and hiplife.

 

[blossie33]

Egypt four times. Loved it.

 

[phildwyer]

BTW Phil, you would go to Colombia but not Algeria?

The coastal area of Colombia isn't dangerous.

 

[Kanda]

Phil, where the fuck do you actually live??? You seem to be everywhere

 

[phildwyer]

Phil, where the fuck do you actually live??? You seem to be everywhere

I live mostly in the USA, but spend about 3 months a year in the UK and usually another 3 months travelling.

 

[Kanda]

Good work if you can get it

 

[pseudonarcissus]

South Africa and Lesotho on holiday, Nigeria and Equatorial Guinea for work

 

[fela fan]

It definitely seemed like life there was plenty of ethnic tension and life was very tough indeed for a great many people in Kenya when I was there - and that's in the place that used to be hailed as one of the continent's success stories. I don't think the experiences of random travellers is going to paint all that accurate a picture of any country's problems though - most of the worst poverty and suffering is in remote rural areas, a long way from any backpacker trail.

'Random' travellers?? "Oh, i think i'll buzz off somewhere for a couple of months, now let me put this pin in the map, close my eyes... oh, look, i'm off to east africa"...!

That may be so, but then if travellers don't get there, are the journalists likely to fare any better? And for anybody that's not been to africa, all they've got is the media's take on the continent.

I've seen the way 'special' correspondents write up on thailand, and even the most glaring of mistakes that just superficial questioning would uncover. Since i left england to live abroad it became obvious to me how dodgy many reports are of foreign lands, inevitably because the reported would just see everything through his/her own cultural eyes.

 

[fela fan]

Are you having a laugh?.

I wasn't actually. So perhaps you can answer the question in a wee bit more detail? Y'know, put me right in my understanding of the continent.

 

[D]

I lived in South Africa, visited Mozambique, Swaziland, and Zambia.

I would love to go to Senegal, Mali, Ivory Coast, back to SA (haven't been since 2001), Egypt, Morocco, Ethiopia, Nigeria...

 

[sleaterkinney]

I wasn't actually. So perhaps you can answer the question in a wee bit more detail? Y'know, put me right in my understanding of the continent.

Have a look at this and take a look at the map of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
The vast majority of Africa has the lowest HDI of the lot.

 

[phildwyer]

Have a look at this and take a look at the map of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
The vast majority of Africa has the lowest HDI of the lot.

That map suggests Germany is less developed than Guyana.

 

[twistedAM]

Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco
Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, Namibia and Angola cos i got lost.

Namibia wins hands easy.

 

[Idris2002]

That map suggests Germany is less developed than Guyana.

I think that's French Guyana, which being a departement d'outre mer of the French state would be lumped in with said state for statistical purposes of the kind on which this map rests.

 

[blueplume]

also such an incredible biodiversity... a new species, an elephant shrew, has been discovered in Tanzania right now

 

[fractionMan]

rubbish? Where did you go? Just the beach resorts (El Hamamet/ Monastir?)

Port El Kantoui is a tourist's fleecing exercise- but Sousse medina is coold and Tunis is beautuful- goreous boulevards.

El Jem amphitheatre is amazing- better than the Colliseum in Rome.

The remains of Carthage and the museum is cracking too. Stunning houses along the coast there.

Sorry, I was being flippant. Years ago I went to some crappy beach resort one February. The travel agent promised me sun and sand and what I got was wind and cold. Explored a bit, got pissed off being hassled so much by touts and salesmen. The roman ruins were cool, as were the deep fried eggs I got what I deserved from my crappy package holiday I suppose.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Oh dear, I voted I had been once, but then remembered I had been to Morocco so the poll answer should be two.

First time I took 2 months travelling through Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Zimbabwe and a few days in S. Africa, all on a £10 a day budget, and then I was taken to Morocco a few years later, for a rather more luxurious visit.

It's really odd reading about Zimbabwe on the news - things weren't definitely great when I was there, but it was a different place to how it seems to be now. I remember being pleased at the time that you could get 300 Zim$ on the black market for 1 US$ (rather than 55), now I feel quite guilty for taking advantage of the start of economic collapse. Out of every country I've ever visited, it's that one which makes me think back regularly to the people who I encountered, and wonder what happened to them all.