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Afghanistan - why doesnt anyone seem to care less?

The taliban and their ideology need wiping of the face of the earth.If Afghanistan goes back into there hands it will effect Europe again .Terrorism.drugs,and refugees so unfortunately we need to fix Afghanistan
i am not sure if we are doing the right thing ,but,the west abandoned it after they beat the USSR and that turned out to be a mistake so guess we're stuck with it.
 
The taliban and their ideology need wiping of the face of the earth.If Afghanistan goes back into there hands it will effect Europe again .Terrorism.drugs,and refugees so unfortunately we need to fix Afghanistan
i am not sure if we are doing the right thing ,but,the west abandoned it after they beat the USSR and that turned out to be a mistake so guess we're stuck with it.

I'm sure we would all agree, but we cannot force the Afghan people to abandon them at gunpoint. This will only mean a conflict lasting for 30 years.
The only way to defeat them is to provide a strong democratic central govt., to provide infrastructure and prosperity, and to make sure that the Afghan people see us as their friend and not their enemy. This is where we are failing, and the result is that the Taliban control many Afghan provinces.

It is too simplistic to say that they simply must be defeated by military means. If we take the Helmand province for example, which is where British forces are most heavily committed, and where there is a very real war going on, we have to consider whether we are taking the right course.

Helmand, more than anywhere is an opium economy. Many of the ordinary Afghan farmers see this as the only viable living they can make. The allies are persuing a policy of stamping out this activity at any cost. The result is that we are completely failing to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary people here. A large part of the Taliban's strength is drawn from being paid and armed by the local warlords to protect their product. Thus we are creating an alliance between the ordinary Afghan's, the warlords and drug barons, and the Taliban. The other result is that the Afghan central govt. is weakened, its authority in many areas outside of Kabul is non-existent.

A more sensible policy would be to simply buy the product ourselves. Opium can be used to create medicinal morphine, which there is a huge worldwide shortage of. If we bought or liscensed this growing, using the Afghan govt. to do so, their authority would be restored, we would stop alienating the Afghan people, and the Taliban would be greatly weakened. It would also be beneficial for ourselves. Our soldiers are dying and the mission has cost something like a billion a year.

The current policy is only going to lead to failiure. Bloody minded determination to 'wipe the Taliban off the face of the Earth' is too simplistic, and is not getting us anywhere. I know you do question whether we are going about it in the right way, but I have to say we clearly are not. What are we fighting for, acording to MP Paul Flynn:

'Prominent members of the Karsai Government are making fortunes from drug trafficking. Now the regime that we have spilled blood for is about to execute a man for reading literature about female equality.

The Karsai Government has members who are profiting richly from the drugs trade. One is a relative of the president. The Karsai-appointed provincial governors and police bosses include warlords, former Taliban, drug barons and other criminals. The lubricant that moves the Karsai Government is the dollar bribery from NATO countries. Their ethos is corruption.

Pressure from Karsai forced the expulsion of the two Pashtun speaking diplomats. They had proud records of winning hearts and minds. This was foolish and counterproductive.

The best hope for a negotiation that could avoid 30 more years of slaughter and futile military activity was Paddy Ashdown. He succeeded brilliantly in the Balkans in another impossible situation.

How many more British lives must be sacrificed to serve Karsai’s foolish, venal ingrates?'


We are also bombing ordinary Afghan people very heavily. These figures from the Washington Post look at both the escalation, and the comparitive amount of airstrikes between Iraq and Afghanistan:

US Boosts its use of Airstrikes in Iraq
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/16/AR2008011604148.html

‘The U.S.-led coalition dropped 1,447 bombs on Iraq last year, an average of nearly four a day, compared with 229 bombs, or about four each week, in 2006.
…In Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO bombings picked up in the middle of 2006, coalition airstrikes reached 3,572 last year, more than double the total for 2006 and more than 20 times the number in 2005. Many of the strikes have targeted the Taliban and other extremists in Helmand province, and military officials said they have been able to use air power to support small Special Forces units that engage the enemy in remote locations.
Human rights groups estimate that Afghan civilian casualties caused by airstrikes tripled to more than 300 in 2007, fueling fears that such aggressive bombardment could be catastrophic for the innocent.‘

3572 airstrikes last year! Double that in 2006 and 20 times as many as in 2005. And a far higher amount of airstrikes than in Iraq. Yet the title of the article mentions Iraq and not Afghanistan.
 
A frank assessment of the thread question (not neccessarily my own opinions)

1) as the latest invasion and occupation was UN sanctioned, many people aint inclined to resent it in the same way as Iraq

2) Afghanistan has been a famously intractable problem since dot.

3) General ignorance because of simplistic coverage and lies in establishment media.
 
You seem to have no comprehension of 'democracy'. It doesn't work if it has no legitimacy. In Afghanistan, the Yanks have no legitimacy. Any "democracy" set up would act for no other reason than to enforce a domestic policy palatable to them. The Afghanis are not stupid, they know this. The democracy would fail.
 
You seem to have no comprehension of 'democracy'. It doesn't work if it has no legitimacy. In Afghanistan, the Yanks have no legitimacy. Any "democracy" set up would act for no other reason than to enforce a domestic policy palatable to them. The Afghanis are not stupid, they know this. The democracy would fail.

Afghanistan needs a strong central government, preferebly representitive, that is not so corrupt. This is one of the problems as far as I can see. To attack me for having 'no comprehension' seems a little bit rude and pointless to be honest. There are lots of problems, and I am simply trying to say what they are and some possible ways to address them.
 
In any event, they had him, and refused to hand him over. Which is what I said.
Afghanistan had no extradition treaty with the US, so there was no established process for such a handover. As has already been pointed out by FM (using contemporary sources, not some BBC romp through the dumbed-down "facts"), they didn't refuse to hand him over, they simply asked the US for evidence, which is pretty standard in extradition proceedings, treaty or no treaty. The UK government were doing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time over the attempted extradition of Lotfi Raissi - the Algerian pilot (falsely) accused of training with the 9/11 bombers.

Since then, of course, the UK government just abandoned any semblance of principle and signed a new treaty to accommodate the US government's distaste for presenting actual evidence whilst whipping up a public frenzy. That's how a proper government should act, obv.
 
You're saying the BBC is getting it wrong?:eek:

That's where I took that from.
Certainly looks like revisionism to me. Just as well folks archive contemporary reports so history cannot be rewritten so easily.

Bush handled it badly from the get-go; his rush to war squandered the good-will the USA was enjoying in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.

But this shouldn't surprise you, not now anyway.
 
I very much doubt whether they ever "had him" in any sense at all. It is hardly as if he was staying in Mullah Omar's spare room in Kabul; he would have been in some random bit in the middle of nowhere even if he was in the country. Even if they had wanted to - and there's certainly a sense from the above that they wouldn't mind at all, if it meant they didn't get bombed and could also retain their position of power without challenge from other internal groups - it's not as if they could have handed him over.
 
A more sensible policy would be to simply buy the product ourselves. Opium can be used to create medicinal morphine, which there is a huge worldwide shortage of. If we bought or liscensed this growing, using the Afghan govt. to do so, their authority would be restored, we would stop alienating the Afghan people, and the Taliban would be greatly weakened. It would also be beneficial for ourselves. Our soldiers are dying and the mission has cost something like a billion a year.

.

THere was a proposal put forward recently by a french pharmaceutical company to do just this - but it was turned down and the potentially useful product destroyed. It woul have also provide the goverment with some much needed cash to start exploiting their countries own natural resources, which are pretty abundant if what I've read is correct.

Sounds like an all round win situation doesn't it - maybe that was the problem.......
 
THere was a proposal put forward recently by a french pharmaceutical company to do just this - but it was turned down and the potentially useful product destroyed. It woul have also provide the goverment with some much needed cash to start exploiting their countries own natural resources, which are pretty abundant if what I've read is correct.

Sounds like an all round win situation doesn't it - maybe that was the problem.......

There is increasingly a movement in the US to stop medical use of opiates. No joke. Partly war-on-drugs ideologically and also, I suspect, because artificial painkillers are all patented, whereas poppies are hard to patent.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/west_asia/36735.stm
"Taleban to Texas for pipeline talks
Wednesday, 3 December, 1997, 15:56 GMT

A senior delegation of Afghanistan's Taleban movement has gone to the United States for talks.

The delegation is to meet officials of the company which wants to build a pipeline to export gas from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm

http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/afghanistan.asp ( with timeline)

"America has wanted a new government in Afghanistan since at least 1998, three years before the attacks on 11 September 2001. The official report from a meeting of the U.S. Government's foreign policy committee on 12 February 1998, available on the U.S. Government website, confirms that the need for a West-friendly government was recognised long before the War on Terror that followed September 11th:"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1997/12/14/wtal14.html

"Oil barons court Taliban in Texas
By Caroline Lees

THE Taliban, Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist army, is about to sign a £2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country.

The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay."


simply our presence in Afghanistan has nothing to do with suppressing the backward Taleban ( saudi is just as bad ) nor al queda ( again saudi based and florida trained ) but simply about oil ..
 
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