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Moose's comments notwithstanding, their problem appears to be:

they went about monetising their work through an outdated, slow and it seems corrupt process that twice gave away their work before they could sell it.

Then they didn't sue everyone involved in the distribution chain for loss of earnings. "You're clearly in breach of the NDA. Prove otherwise".
 
I have no time for whining greedy 'musicians'.

If you're any cop you can earn money by playing live.

Fuck them and their industry.
 
I have no time for whining greedy 'musicians'.

If you're any cop you can earn money by playing live.

Fuck them and their industry.

I don't think that's fair. Unless you are a huge band, touring is only a means of promoting your records. There ain't a lot of money in the music business for the little people, but to be fair their never really was.
 
I have no time for whining greedy 'musicians'.

If you're any cop you can earn money by playing live.

Fuck them and their industry.

don't talk wank. The mechanics and economics of touring are not stacked in favour of small bands, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about
 
don't talk wank. The mechanics and economics of touring are not stacked in favour of small bands, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

Andy spoilt a good rant by going on about hobby bands. The good hobby bands want to make a living out of it. The market has and always will determine who can do music professionally or as a hobby.
And, as you know I <3 mclusky.
 
Andy spoilt a good rant by going on about hobby bands. The good hobby bands want to make a living out of it. The market has and always will determine who can do music professionally or as a hobby.
And, as you know I <3 mclusky.

oh, i don't agree with everything he says by any means, I just thought it would be interesting to see what people thought. But Deep Stoat still doesn't know what he's talking about
 
oh, i don't agree with everything he says by any means, I just thought it would be interesting to see what people thought. But Deep Stoat still doesn't know what he's talking about

True. But I'm worried about Atomic Suplez's ears and if I could be arsed right now I'd post the lyrics to Alan Is a Cowboy Killer but they'd probably go whoosh anyway.
 
Pull up my pants
Now the camera crew has gone
In your statement to the police
Tell them how you turned me on

But you were such an ugly child
You were such an awkward child
You were such a stupid child
We should've cottoned on

Alan is a cowboy killer

Take up tai chi
Now your favourite pet has died
We had crazy fucking times
'Till her visa card expired

But you were such an ugly child
You were such an awkward child
You were such a stupid child
We should've cottoned on

Alan is a cowboy killer

Wipe up his mess
Pay your fluffers by the yard
How you're paying for your peace
How you're paying for your peace

But you were such an ugly child
You were such an awkward child
You were such a stupid child
We should've cottoned on

That Alan is a cowboy killer

Alan is a cowboy killer
 
I have every sympathy when stuff gets leaked before its actually released thats well shit for the bands.

They really need to rethink the whole promotional issue or review copies of full albums, someone in the chain will be a cock and upload it, its inevitable.


dave
 
I have every sympathy when stuff gets leaked before its actually released thats well shit for the bands.

They really need to rethink the whole promotional issue or review copies of full albums, someone in the chain will be a cock and upload it, its inevitable.


dave

I've never downloaded stuff ever. Or leaked shit . It was more than my journalistic career was worth. I don't write anymore but it just seems that more people are getting away with it.
 
one of Albini's best wheezes was the Futurist album. They pressed about 800 copies for non-commercial release, with the names of the recipients printed on the cover and circled. Thus, if a copy ever showed up for sale, they'd know who'd done it :)
 
If I were more level right now I'd mention the Creative Commons movement as a valid topic, but I'm a little stoned, so I won't.

Which is a useful post.
 
I like them and all, but the idea that being leaked on the internet has made the difference between them "living in poverty" and not is ludicrous. The reason that if I say to someone "hey have you heard that album by Future Of The Left" they say "who?" is not because they downloaded it and forgot about it. Also:
it feels that getting annoyed about
downloading in this valueless modern age is like taking issue with
water for being wet or night for gradually turning into day because
ultimately the entitlement that most people feel for free music
completely overshadows any moral or legal issues and conflicts that
may arise in the hearts and minds of better people, people who
understand that actions, on both an individual and group level, have
consequences far beyond that moment of instant gratification.
knob off
 
I like them and all, but the idea that being leaked on the internet has made the difference between them "living in poverty" and not is ludicrous. The reason that if I say to someone "hey have you heard that album by Future Of The Left" they say "who?" is not because they downloaded it and forgot about it. Also:

knob off

Yeah when it originally came out as a rant-blog it made sense but for that useless knobber Sharkey to take out an full page advert about it just takes it all out of context in so many ways.
Then again Falkhous must have agreed to it being republished so if he gets into bed with a twat like Sharkey so be it.
 
I'm wondering if we'll get to the point where bands like U2 or Megadeth start demanding people pay in advance for putative albums. Along the same principle as the kidnapper's ransom demand: "we will release an album in 6 months time, but only when the bank account we have just set up contains 2 million quid"

Patrick Wolf, I think, had a lot of fan funding in the last album. Nothing compulsory, but I think at a point he did imply that the release date would be conditioned by the amount raised.


As for this case, advanced leaks are always unfortunate (particularly if they're of unfinished material), but any band with aspirations should know that between sending stuff to journos, factories all over the world and, a lot of stores ahead of release date, and so on, someone is likely to get their hands on a disc, make a high quality rip and post it online. The only way is only to invite hacks for private listening parties and release the album on iTunes or some other digital way long before a single hard copy they can't control at all time is produced. And even then...

However, this all seems very bandwagonesque, in a sense they're hardly a well known band, with an album wikipedia tells me has been well received, and there has been a lot of talk recently regarding the subject at hand. Besides, they come as twats judging from that rant.
Note to him: I worked to buy my guitar, and I'm thinking of getting a bass next. I'd love to actually record something someday and in someway offset all I've spent, but if I did spent so much money on gear, it's because I actually like playing it, not because I've decided to become rich by playing a bunch of barré chords.
 
What rock have you been living under? PC gaming is in its death throes due to piracy.

I stand corrected then. I've never paid any attention to videogames, just not my cup of tea. I asked someone about this the other day - someone I thought would know - cos i was curious if videogames were going the same way. they said the file size made illegal downloading of em less rife than music. i was surprised but took their word for it...


Talking of gaming ...

15 year old son walking past bus-stop advert for new video game 'Wet': "They're really stuck for names, aren't they. Doesn't matter what they call them anyway - they're the same game with different faces and landscapes". Me: "Who do you think the advert is trying to appeal to?"; Son: "People with no hobbies and no friends".
 
Talking of gaming ...

15 year old son walking past bus-stop advert for new video game 'Wet': "They're really stuck for names, aren't they. Doesn't matter what they call them anyway - they're the same game with different faces and landscapes". Me: "Who do you think the advert is trying to appeal to?"; Son: "People with no hobbies and no friends".

Gaming is a hobby you can participate in with friends. :hmm:
 
Patrick Wolf, I think, had a lot of fan funding in the last album. Nothing compulsory, but I think at a point he did imply that the release date would be conditioned by the amount raised.

Marillion and Einsturzende Neubauten are the rather odd two who spring to mind who've done that too.
Actually Morton Valence have done something similar with their album and clearly they are on a much smaller scale than anyone mentioned so far - even Future Of The Left. So it can be done, although I know it wasn't easy for 'em.

Falco has a fair point about how this impacts live music as an income - big theatre and stadium shows can whack up the ticket price (as we've all probably noticed) and still fill the place. Bands have never made much if anything out of small gigs anyway and don't really have the same option.
wouold you spend £20 to go see a couple of bands at a toilet venue?
 
Talking of gaming ...

15 year old son walking past bus-stop advert for new video game 'Wet': "They're really stuck for names, aren't they. Doesn't matter what they call them anyway - they're the same game with different faces and landscapes". Me: "Who do you think the advert is trying to appeal to?"; Son: "People with no hobbies and no friends".

:D:D:D

so wise, so young
 
My old bands debut album was pirated by these russian sites and it must have worked for them as 80% of our fanbase according to Last FM is in the Russian federation. We've still not recouped our losses on making that album....ho hum.

I think the secret is for new artists to deny music....nobody tours....nobody releases anything.......if people are that desperate then they can watch band rehearsals at £300 a throw.
 
don't talk wank. The mechanics and economics of touring are not stacked in favour of small bands, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

The continuation of the 'industry' in it's current state is not an option.

Infact more good will come out the industry being crippled than bad.

Go feck yerself
 
My old bands debut album was pirated by these russian sites and it must have worked for them as 80% of our fanbase according to Last FM is in the Russian federation. We've still not recouped our losses on making that album....ho hum.

I think the secret is for new artists to deny music....nobody tours....nobody releases anything.......if people are that desperate then they can watch band rehearsals at £300 a throw.

I'm not sure that there's a living to made by smaller bands in making albums and selling them in the traditional way. A core fan base will buy your album, but a casual listener may nab a couple of tracks, or even download the whole album and never lsiten to it...just because they can.

Music is only transferable in it's digitized form, therefore, not recording is the only way to beat the 'pirates', and, as Jefe has pointed out, touring is too expensive for the bands of the fringes of the 'industry', so it doesn't leave a lot of options really.

There maybe something to be said in just giving music away, building up your fanbase, nurturing a following and the trying to earn through providing unique live experiences based around music and performance. A band may never reach worldwide prominence, but through developing pockets of fans around the world they may be able to sustain a career which is actually a bit more fulfilling because it requires greater interaction between performers and audiences and the development of a two way agreement...kind of thing......goes away and stops typing out loud...
 
There maybe something to be said in just giving music away, building up your fanbase, nurturing a following and the trying to earn through providing unique live experiences based around music and performance. A band may never reach worldwide prominence, but through developing pockets of fans around the world they may be able to sustain a career which is actually a bit more fulfilling because it requires greater interaction between performers and audiences and the development of a two way agreement

yeah i think you're right and i think that's a healthy way of being a musician and of thinking about art in general.

but i still can't stand all those idiots who talk crap about 'good riddance to the greedy music industry' and 'greedy musicians' and 'sticking it to the man', as if musicians and the CEO of Warner Bros were one and the same thing, and as if musicians didn't need to eat.

I'd be interested to know how some posters here would feel if they were suddenly told by their boss that their salaries were going to be cut by 90% and that it was up to them to use their own initiative to make up the difference, and that they should just be doing it for the love of doing it.
 
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