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Adam Curtis documentary: The Trap

Kid_Eternity

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
New docu from the bloke that brought us The Power of Nightmares called The Trap:

Individual freedom is the dream of our age. It's what our leaders promise to give us, it defines how we think of ourselves and, repeatedly, we have gone to war to impose freedom around the world. But if you step back and look at what freedom actually means for us today, it's a strange and limited kind of freedom.

Politicians promised to liberate us from the old dead hand of bureaucracy, but they have created an evermore controlling system of social management, driven by targets and numbers. Governments committed to freedom of choice have presided over a rise in inequality and a dramatic collapse in social mobility. And abroad, in Iraq and Afghanistan, the attempt to enforce freedom has led to bloody mayhem and the rise of an authoritarian anti-democratic Islamism. This, in turn, has helped inspire terrorist attacks in Britain. In response, the Government has dismantled long-standing laws designed to protect our freedom.

The Trap is a series of three films by Bafta-winning producer Adam Curtis that explains the origins of our contemporary, narrow idea of freedom.
Link

If it's anything as good as TPoN it should be good...
 
I've been waiting for this, still no transmission date. Haven't seen The Power of Nightmares, but The Century of the Self was top-drawer, everyone should watch it (it's on Google Video).
 
Really looking forward to this, although with a couple of years distance for reflection TPoN is nowhere near as convincing as it first seemed.
 
Google his 'The Century of The Self' on google video. Excellent series also (edit - much better than TPoN in my view.)
 
interesting stuff, the experiment with the mental health institutions was stunningly simple and effective, and the stats anaylsis stuff, very scary, and the link between vietnam war cost analysis and thatcher
 
Interesting stuff - I like the way he always injects these hilarious little anecdotes into the narrative.

Last nights chestnut was the story of how, in order to expose the falability of psychiatry, seven on-the-level volunteers booked themselves into psychiatric hospitals with just the flimsiest of pretend problems and... well if you don't know what happened you should have watched it! :)
 
Divisive Cotton said:
Interesting stuff - I like the way he always injects these hilarious little anecdotes into the narrative.

Last nights chestnut was the story of how, in order to expose the falability of psychiatry, seven on-the-level volunteers booked themselves into psychiatric hospitals with just the flimsiest of pretend problems and... well if you don't know what happened you should have watched it! :)

that was very interesting, particularly when they invited him to try it again, which he agreed to, then confidently announced that they had found 41 of his "plants" to which he replied, he hadn't actually sent anyone:D
 
Love his films - and having not seen the new one yet its hard to comment - Im sure I'll agree with much that is said, but personaly I think its important to keep things in perspective - When were we ever free?

Primitivist anarchists like to idealise pre-'civilised' life, but there were other restrictions impeding our freedom then - short life spans (illness), lack of scientific/rational understanding (knowledge is freedom too) etc, etc,

Do you know what Im getting at?

Politicians promised to liberate us from the old dead hand of bureaucracy, but they have created an evermore controlling system of social management, driven by targets and numbers.
Maybe a bit annoying for people in the public sector, but targets are not all bad.
Governments committed to freedom of choice have presided over a rise in inequality and a dramatic collapse in social mobility.
NOt sure about a dramatic collapse - its always been fucking hard to be upwardly socially mobile.
And abroad, in Iraq and Afghanistan, the attempt to enforce freedom has led to bloody mayhem and the rise of an authoritarian anti-democratic Islamism. This, in turn, has helped inspire terrorist attacks in Britain. In response, the Government has dismantled long-standing laws designed to protect our freedom.
Cant argues with that - and nothing gets me madder than ID cards + the database state -its whats to come that scares me most.
 
Was an interesting programme, I'd not read this thread [or the tv guide properly it seems] and thought it was just a one off look kind of thing but as a series I'm intruiged to see how it all fits in together. And worrying that to make up the numbers in Vietnam anyone was killed so they could be seen as 'winning'
 
I thought it was a bit incoherent and disorganised. You felt that he hadn't given himself enough time to organise and accommodate his research, while his argument tended to shoot off on tangents which left the whole structure feeling a bit disjointed and awkward.

But having said that it was still a cut above. Very interesting telly and I think we should give this series time. It felt like he was exploring the premises of a very grand narrative and the best is yet to come.
 
Wide Eyed Angel said:
. And worrying that to make up the numbers in Vietnam anyone was killed so they could be seen as 'winning'

Or just fabricate their kill numbers. Strangely reminiscent of the Soviet Union under Stalin, factory managers would be given impossible targets under the latest 5 year plan and be facing the work camps (or worse) if they failed, so they'd simply lie about their production levels.
 
Do you reckon there's a top secret NHS Gulag Archipelago for failed managers. Somewhere like Canvey Island or Dartmoor...
 
Diamond said:
I thought it was a bit incoherent and disorganised. You felt that he hadn't given himself enough time to organise and accommodate his research, while his argument tended to shoot off on tangents which left the whole structure feeling a bit disjointed and awkward.

But having said that it was still a cut above. Very interesting telly and I think we should give this series time. It felt like he was exploring the premises of a very grand narrative and the best is yet to come.
I had that experience too... Im thinking by the end it will fall together a bit better.
 
I got a bit lost in all the cool music and imagery and missed where the argument was up to or was going.

Some very funny bits tonight.

Esp. the kid that stops to smile at the cameraman :D
 
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