Activists; Why were you not at Climate Camp?

[tufty79]

i think we should do another one next week

well, two. one just like the last one, and then a separate one where only squeaky clean holier than thou peoples have to go, like dr herbz seems to think they should.

nobody's perfect. but at least we're trying

 

[durruti02]

Ethan Greenhart is their 'Ethical Columnist', they add that to the bottom of all his pages to cover their own back.

"Ethan " is a made up rather poor pisstake of greenies, from the ex RCP crowd. It is pretty well always wide of the mark and uses minorities to attack the overall position. I note in this 'column' it suggests that anti aviation is fueled by anti w/c bigotry which is just totally bullshite and typical of the column

p.s. the RCP were predominantly rich middle class tossers as is i suspect the real "Ethan" whoever they might be

p.s. Sense about Science, another exRCP front, accepts the human input into CC

have to say yet again another thread disrupted though .. sad

 

[bluestreak]

Did anyone meet this 'activist' at climate camp?

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3718

Is it any wonder these protesters have no credibility in the eyes of rational thinking people!

i think that may be somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

 

[bluestreak]

in fact, dr_herbz, perhaps if you'd read on a little bit...

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/issues/C32/

you'd see that using the example you did has, in fact, made you look very stupid indeed.

 

[editor]

Ethan Greenhart is their 'Ethical Columnist', they add that to the bottom of all his pages to cover their own back.

It's a made up character you fucking moron. He doesn't actually exist.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

It's a made up character you fucking moron. He doesn't actually exist.

Of course he's a made up character you fucking dunce, just as 'editor' is... anyone who spouts that much shite would never use their real name.

 

[editor]

Of course he's a made up character you fucking dunce...

And you knew that all along, eh?

You've been PWNED, son. HTH/ROTFL/PMSL/LOL/HAND

 

[Wilf]

I didn't go to this because I didn't think it was politically worthwhile. I'm not quite as scathing as In Bloom about it- I do think that there is a terrain within it for the articulation of a class-based analysis of the problems and associated solutions.

The discourse around these issues is so dominated by woolly toss that I didn't think I'd be able to take it.

I shared some of these misgivings, though i did go to the camp. Some of this was justified, given the posh backgrounds of some who ended up in the news (the kind of thing Ian Bone was banging on about in his blog). At the same time, I was pleasantly surprised with the camp itself. There were 4 days of meetings and workshops before the action - and a lot of these talked about poverty and the environment. Moreover (as i've mentioned on one of the other threads) the biggest of the non-plenary meetings was the AF session. In fact, despite the varied mix of people there, the tone of the whole week was decidedly anti-corporate. Not quite a definite or consistent linking of the environment to class struggle - but better than i anticipated.

 

[Wilf]

... and in terms of some of the accusations being thrown round on this thread:

Hypocrisy - okay, I'll start with myself first:

Went on 2 plane trips last year - but had averaged about 1 per 7 years till then

How did I get to the camp? I drove! Its a blue badge/disability thing - couldn't carry camping stuff on public transport (and was bringing stuff for the site). The coppers though still forced me to park half a mile away - even though they let a line of press park directly outside the camp.

Other people:

I did actually meet 1 person who had flown - from Germany. Was, I think, planning to travel in the UK afterwards. Didn't meet anyone else who had flown.

How did they get there? Most people came on the train, megabus etc. Were some minibuses - and a few people certainly did bring vehicles. This though was mainly vans for bringing camping tat. Met a few people who said they had come down in cars - though it can't have been many. Once you got beyond the police roadblock - to the area where people could actually park - the streets were not overly congested.

Were they hypocritically saying people shouldn't be allowed to fly? I wasn't there but i gather Meyer Hillman said something to that effect at a meeting. Other people just didn't say that and the vast majority were aiming their anger at BAA, the airlines and the corporate sector. Interestingly, there was also a lot of hostility to the idea of carbon offsetting and the notion that the west buys its way out of guilt. In fact the carbon offsetting company was an actual target of the protests.

Not going to pretend this is a fully fledged anti-system movement - and it does have its fair share of middle class moralists. At the same time it shouldn't have to get over all of these hurdles before we offer it (critical) support. Its a (fairly) broad based movement on climate change, that shows some signs of making links with broader struggles. Could be worse.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

And you knew that all along, eh?

You've been PWNED, son. HTH/ROTFL/PMSL/LOL/HAND

No, I thought that everyone used their real names on the internet

 

[Irenick]

And you knew that all along, eh? You've been PWNED, son. HTH/ROTFL/PMSL/LOL/HAND

Fuck me, an attritional acronymic assault! What does it mean? Is there a way out?

Mind you, it's great to be on a site where the editors get down low and dirty; mixing it with the plebs. I'm mildly impressed; and, that takes some fucking doing - so, I'm informed.

 

[ymu]

No, I thought that everyone used their real names on the internet

Nice try, but you're honestly saying you read this:

My chant during the Climate Camp week will be: ‘What do we want?’ ‘A 65 per cent reduction in all forms of greenhouse gas emissions by 2017, a minimum tax of £1 per mile on all short-haul flights under 600 miles, and greater investment in pro-cycling policies including the painting of at least a 175cm cycle lane on all major thoroughfares!’ ‘When do we want it?’ ‘Now!’

And then posted it as a serious example of why people hate the environmental movement.

Pwned indeed.

 

[editor]

Pwned indeed.

100% and make no mistake!

 

[bluestreak]

... and in terms of some of the accusations being thrown round on this thread:

Hypocrisy - okay, I'll start with myself first:

Went on 2 plane trips last year - but had averaged about 1 per 7 years till then

How did I get to the camp? I drove! Its a blue badge/disability thing - couldn't carry camping stuff on public transport (and was bringing stuff for the site). The coppers though still forced me to park half a mile away - even though they let a line of press park directly outside the camp.

Other people:

I did actually meet 1 person who had flown - from Germany. Was, I think, planning to travel in the UK afterwards. Didn't meet anyone else who had flown.

How did they get there? Most people came on the train, megabus etc. Were some minibuses - and a few people certainly did bring vehicles. This though was mainly vans for bringing camping tat. Met a few people who said they had come down in cars - though it can't have been many. Once you got beyond the police roadblock - to the area where people could actually park - the streets were not overly congested.

Were they hypocritically saying people shouldn't be allowed to fly? I wasn't there but i gather Meyer Hillman said something to that effect at a meeting. Other people just didn't say that and the vast majority were aiming their anger at BAA, the airlines and the corporate sector. Interestingly, there was also a lot of hostility to the idea of carbon offsetting and the notion that the west buys its way out of guilt. In fact the carbon offsetting company was an actual target of the protests.

Not going to pretend this is a fully fledged anti-system movement - and it does have its fair share of middle class moralists. At the same time it shouldn't have to get over all of these hurdles before we offer it (critical) support. Its a (fairly) broad based movement on climate change, that shows some signs of making links with broader struggles. Could be worse.

Good post 4thwrite. One that shows what a disparate group the climate change protesters were, and how difficult it is to make uneducated sweeping statements.

 

[durruti02]

I shared some of these misgivings, though i did go to the camp. Some of this was justified, given the posh backgrounds of some who ended up in the news (the kind of thing Ian Bone was banging on about in his blog). At the same time, I was pleasantly surprised with the camp itself. There were 4 days of meetings and workshops before the action - and a lot of these talked about poverty and the environment. Moreover (as i've mentioned on one of the other threads) the biggest of the non-plenary meetings was the AF session. In fact, despite the varied mix of people there, the tone of the whole week was decidedly anti-corporate. Not quite a definite or consistent linking of the environment to class struggle - but better than i anticipated.

good posts mate .. and i feel pretty much as you did!

 

[Miss-Shelf]

^and me

 

[Wilf]

 

[ymu]

*wanders off muttering about sanity and balance ruining another good thread*

 

[treelover]

same as last years,


There were 4 days of meetings and workshops before the action - and a lot of these talked about poverty and the environment


btw, Alex Callinicos (SWP head honcho)attempts to put the boot in to the C/C and what Gorman has called a 'new movement.(below) you have to admire his chutzpah though or is it arrogance?

Joss Garman of Plane Stupid argues against Toynbee that the Camp for Climate Action represented the beginning of a new form of activism – an alternative to what is dismissed as the failed anti-war movement.

I don’t really see this myself. I have every sympathy with the camp’s cause, especially given the barrage of media, legal, and police intimidation to which its participants were subjected. But in both scale and method it looked more like a return to the anti-road campaigns of the 1990s than a new step forward.

Here Toynbee does have a point. Why, given vast media coverage and official acceptance of the mortal threat posed by climate change, did the camp attract only a couple of thousand participants?

http://ukwatch.net/article/anti_war_radicals_have_not_gone_away