Accessible but quality jazz

[danny la rouge]

I think Blue Train was one of the first blatantly jazz tracks I properly loved.



But, tbh, Coltrane offers everything from My Favourite Things through to A Love Supreme. Depending on how easy you're looking to make it.

Blue Train is quite intense. I'm never quite sure what it is that people aren't liking when they say they don't like jazz, because to me it's just music. But I read a book once where the author suggested that it's a matter of experience in the rules of the genre. What some people struggle with, he suggested, was that they couldn't follow what happened to the harmonic structure after the initial melody (head) is replaced by improvisation; one the initial melody is gone, their reference points are whisked away, because their experience doesn't allow them to feel the chord structure repeating underneath if the improvisation is too harmonically complex.

If he's right about that, then Louis Armstrong should be "accessible" because he sticks very close to the harmonic structure of the melody, especially in his 50s All Stars albums. In Blue Train, however, Coltrane uses a blues form, but has pushed the hard bop idiom to its logical conclusion; he's at the height of his "sheets of sound" style.

Coltrane is far less uncompromising harmonically on the Ballads album, and so that should be more accessible to those who are left without harmonic anchor points by Blue Train.

Having said that, something that has a far more nebulous chord structure, but I think is still accessible is Jim Hall's Concierto:

 

[danski]

Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage

 

[danski]

One of my absolute faves

I think it's the sound of the recording as much as the music that does it for me.

 

[mrs quoad]

Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage

See, that's why I went for Watermelon Man as being more accessible

 

[andysays]

Blue Train is quite intense. I'm never quite sure what it is that people aren't liking when they say they don't like jazz, because to me it's just music. But I read a book once where the author suggested that it's a matter of experience in the rules of the genre. What some people struggle with, he suggested, was that they couldn't follow what happened to the harmonic structure after the initial melody (head) is replaced by improvisation; one the initial melody is gone, their reference points are whisked away, because their experience doesn't allow them to feel the chord structure repeating underneath if the improvisation is too harmonically complex.

If he's right about that, then Louis Armstrong should be "accessible" because he sticks very close to the harmonic structure of the melody, especially in his 50s All Stars albums. In Blue Train, however, Coltrane uses a blues form, but has pushed the hard bop idiom to its logical conclusion; he's at the height of his "sheets of sound" style.

Coltrane is far less uncompromising harmonically on the Ballads album, and so that should be more accessible to those who are left without harmonic anchor points by Blue Train...

Excellent (accessible but quality ) post as always on this subject, danny.

For me, it's the tension between the original melody and the improvisation on it which provides much of the interest in the "best" jazz, with the musicians seeing just how far they can stretch it before it breaks.

And I suppose that breaking point is different for different listeners. I find a lot of what some listeners find "difficult" perfectly accessible, while on the other hand some of the suggestions on this thread don't really interest me because (however quality they are) they don't have the improvisational tension I'm looking for.

 

[Dr. Furface]

 

[killer b]

For those of us that grew up with jazz as the background noise, the musical language doesn't need explaining - its what we expect from music, so it just makes sense anyway. but it was still a bit like a light going on when a jazz musician explained what goes on to me at the age of 20 or so (in similar terms to Danny above - maybe he'd read the same book).

 

[killer b]

Either way, I think just knowing that there's a structure to jazz (and what it is) does much more to make it accessible than any number of jazz funk numbers.

 

[ska invita]

Blue Train is quite intense. I'm never quite sure what it is that people aren't liking when they say they don't like jazz, because to me it's just music. But I read a book once where the author suggested that it's a matter of experience in the rules of the genre. What some people struggle with, he suggested, was that they couldn't follow what happened to the harmonic structure after the initial melody (head) is replaced by improvisation; one the initial melody is gone, their reference points are whisked away, because their experience doesn't allow them to feel the chord structure repeating underneath if the improvisation is too harmonically complex.

If he's right about that, then Louis Armstrong should be "accessible" because he sticks very close to the harmonic structure of the melody, especially in his 50s All Stars albums. In Blue Train, however, Coltrane uses a blues form, but has pushed the hard bop idiom to its logical conclusion; he's at the height of his "sheets of sound" style.

Coltrane is far less uncompromising harmonically on the Ballads album, and so that should be more accessible to those who are left without harmonic anchor points by Blue Train.

Having said that, something that has a far more nebulous chord structure, but I think is still accessible is Jim Hall's Concierto:

Im sure that is a big part of it, in addition I think people are put off by
- "too many notes"

- general soloing being too busy
- soloing getting in anyway discordant (including genereal going away from the melody)
- drum/bass grooves getting too abstracted

Jazz often requires that extra bit of concentration and putting yourself in amongst the musicians....other music comes to you and requires little effort to follow (minimal house for extreme example!).... if you aren't concentrating and just going for some "easy listening" all the jazz soloing action going on can get a bit noisy and annoying.

Also the fact its instrumental and theres no vocals to hang on can be a problem for some!

From there Id say the general benchmarks for accessible jazz are:
-tunes that are slow (ballads) to middle swinging ...not too fast basically (unless you go back to early dixieland/hot jazz)
- related to that tunes where soloing isnt too busy
-tunes that stay locked into the melody - not too discordant
- where subject matter isnt too radical...in general tunes from before the civil rights era, where jazz was still a lot more about meeting polite audiences half way
- tunes where there is a solid and not too complex groove - no mad time signatures, and a back beat + locked in bassline
-throw some lyrics on

 

[killer b]

What do you mean, there's no singing? I was thinking this morning that some of the best songs to illustrate the language of jazz are Ella Fitzgerald numbers...

 

[ska invita]

hard to get more locked in to the melody, not playing too fast, and a straight backbeat, but still quality, than this

great sunday morning tune though

 

[ska invita]

What do you mean, there's no singing? I was thinking this morning that some of the best songs to illustrate the language of jazz are Ella Fitzgerald numbers...

i mean jazz songs are so much more accessible, and instrumental music puts a lot of people off in general
also the singing leaves less room for busy solos

 

[killer b]

...especially as the songs are so familiar to everyone. The melodic improvisation on the second verse of this is exquisite, and complex - but everyone knows the song so it isn't weird. But it does everthing a jazz song should.

 

[ska invita]

There was a BBC documentary about UK jazz around 2000 and many musicians were saying that record companies in the 90s forced them to have at least one vocal track to help sell the record and provide something to be played on radio!

 

[danny la rouge]

That's a detailed way of saying the same thing, ska invita .

The two ways of expressing it that I've seen in popular culture are

Church Berry:

"I got no kick against modern jazz
Unless they try to play it too darn fast
I lose the beauty of the melody
Until it sounds just like a symphony"

Jill Swinburne (Beiderbecke Trilogy):

"There are three types of jazz: hot jazz, cool jazz, and what time does the tune start?"

 

[ska invita]

I think Hebie Hancock walks a really nice line between accessible and occasional full acid meltdown, but seemingly taking audiences with him despite the madness (Headhunters was the #1 selling jazz album of all time until the CD of Kind of Blue came out)

I especially liked all the mellow grooves like this from the 70s when i was getting into him

 

[ska invita]

"There are three types of jazz: hot jazz, cool jazz, and what time does the tune start?"

is hardcore bop badness hot jazz or when does the tune start?

 

[danny la rouge]

is hardcore bop badness hot jazz or when does the tune start?

I assume: when does the tune start.

(I find this hard to relate to, it has to be said).

 

[ska invita]

Blue Note did a great series of soul jazz comps in the early 00s which are a great way in IMO - loads of solid jazz grooves side by side with more conventional soul & funk numbers.

Each one on a theme - this Black Power one is my favourite: Various - Say It Loud! (Brotherhood, Pride & Groove On Blue Note)

this looks great...and bit of an aside but has lead me to these two comps
Various - Black & Proud - The Soul Of The Black Panther Era
Various - Black & Proud Vol. 2
which look pretty good (not strictly jazz)

 

[lefteri]

ECM?

 

[ska invita]

All the Placebo (no, not that Placebo) stuff is well worth checking out, very cinematic and atmospheric. There's a J Dilla remake of the above tune that's completely boss, too

hadnt heard of of Placebo (this one) before...great stuff