Accents & dialects

[billy_bob]

There's nothing about accents that's actually tied to geography other than historically people's social groups have been geographically close. If people identify more closely with, for instance, a professional grouping who are geographically spread then they will develop phonological identifiers as well as jargon etc.

There's nothing about accents that's fundamentally tied to geography, no, but the historical colocation of groups isn't an afterthought - until very recently it determined that nearly all accents recognised as such were geographically specific to a large extent. Forget my point about pidgins, maybe these newer patterns of speech are at least on the way to being distinct accents in their own right, but I guess it's the fact that they are non-geographical that makes that sound like not-quite-the-right term for them.

 

[maomao]

There's nothing about accents that's fundamentally tied to geography, no, but the historical colocation of groups isn't an afterthought - until very recently it determined that nearly all accents recognised as such were geographically specific to a large extent. Forget my point about pidgins, maybe these newer patterns of speech are at least on the way to being distinct accents in their own right, but I guess it's the fact that they are non-geographical that makes that sound like not-quite-the-right term for them.

Can't think of a better term. Though 'accent' has been used as a pejorative term to describe the speech of working class people who are less likely to be geographically mobile whereas something like 'RP' is rarely described as an accent but is clearly the accent of a more geographically mobile social group. From an objective standpoint they're both the same phenomenon and the geographical component is just down to circumstance.

 

[billy_bob]

Can't think of a better term. Though 'accent' has been used as a pejorative term to describe the speech of working class people who are less likely to be geographically mobile whereas something like 'RP' is rarely described as an accent but is clearly the accent of a more geographically mobile social group. From an objective standpoint they're both the same phenomenon and the geographical component is just down to circumstance.

Completely agree with that. What I mentioned in #28 - the way people use the pronunciation of place names to exclude Outsiders - posh people who are less geographically connected do it with surnames instead: Cholmondley, Featherstonehaugh, etc.

 

[Greebo]

I don't think I have. what is it?

Faaaabulous coat with impeeecable finish. The seamlines and the drape are amaaaaazing and make it sooo now.

 

[Cid]

People may have other personal ways of speaking that aren't generally seen as dialect. For instance, everyone has heard that weird transatlantic fashion speak. That wouldn't usually be called a dialect because of the lack of a regional connection.

That would be a pidgin presumably... Well maybe not 'transatlantic fashion speak' as I'm not quite sure what the fuck you're on about.

 

[Wookey]

I remember in the 90s that linguists identified the Australian rising intonation (sounds like a question? even when it isn't?) which had it seemed been adopted by teenagers in the UK who were avid fans of Neighbours and Home and Away. Would be a good example of a dialect feature the boundaries of which were cultural rather than strictly geographic?

 

[billy_bob]

I remember in the 90s that linguists identified the Australian rising intonation (sounds like a question? even when it isn't?) which had it seemed been adopted by teenagers in the UK who were avid fans of Neighbours and Home and Away. Would be a good example of a dialect feature the boundaries of which were cultural rather than strictly geographic?

Are you telling us or asking us? I can't tell?

 

[Santino]

That would be a pidgin presumably... Well maybe not 'transatlantic fashion speak' as I'm not quite sure what the fuck you're on about.

It's not a pidgin though.

 

[skyscraper101]

I became friends with this guy a couple of years ago who's about 60ish, he moved to LA from London about 30 years ago by which time he was too old to get any hint of American, but neither has he developed any of the British English nuances which came about in the 90s, and 00s that folk naturally acquire over time.

So he's a kind of stuck in the early 80s, and he sounds like how middle class people used to speak back then. It's an odd thing to listen to and hard to explain but on the rare occasion he comes over to the UK he sounds quite out of place.

 

[maomao]

I became friends with this guy a couple of years ago who's about 60ish, he moved to LA from London about 30 years ago by which time he was too old to get any hint of American, but neither has he developed any of the British English nuances which came about in the 90s, and 00s that folk naturally acquire over time.

So he's a kind of stuck in the early 80s, and he sounds like how middle class people used to speak back then. It's an odd thing to listen to and hard to explain but on the rare occasion he comes over to the UK he sounds quite out of place.

I met an ex-pat in China once who'd been in Asia for 30 years and he sounded like a character out of a 1960s carry on film.

 

[JimW]

I met an ex-pat in China once who'd been in Asia for 30 years and he sounded like a character out of a 1960s carry on film.

And there were plenty who'd been there only a few weeks who acted like characters out of Carry On.