nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Do fuck off, bully boy.
Abu Ghraib Photos
- Thread starter Corax
- Start date
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Maybe I didn't phrase that right.
My point is that there isn't very much to disagree about. I don't think there's anyone on these boards these days who would be extreme enough to argue that the rape of a prisoner's children as a tool of torture is proportionate and necessary.
I'm not sure exactly what you want. It sounds as if you'd like this thread to be some sort of petition where we all have to prove how offended and political we are by declaiming our outrage.
Susan Boyle on the other hand provides a much more nuanced situation for mindless argument.
I would have thought that's pretty obviously the reason why threads like these can be quieter than threads about Britain's Got Talent.
Oh, and you also talk much nonsense on the music front.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I don't think we can expect anything but nonsense spoken about reggae music from a man who says Jade Goody was black.
I'll be agreeing with this, in particular over reggae, but all manner of african music lyrics demonstrate to any listener their own fights for justice and peace in this world. I'd say i was on pretty safe ground to say the same is for much of south american music.
I would add though, that when i was somewhat younger plenty of western music (well american and british, i didn't understand any european languages) had just as good and fighting lyrics that called for the end to oppression of all kinds. But, reflecting the decline of the general media in US and UK, and as phil is saying, things have changed quickly in just one, celebrity-obsessed, generation.
no kidding
I get very little overt respect in the urban75 world, so suddenly i'm getting the opportunity to claim a bit of my own... and so i did!
Only bob marley matches mr kuti in my opinion in terms of what they sang for.
But while the topic is open, can british or american posters verify that western lyrics no longer speak up for oppressed peoples in the same frequency that they did back in the 70s and 80s. I recall in those days that your band name being associated with the corporate or political world would be the end of you. Even though i no longer live in britain, i don't get that impression at all any more.
I think it's a good point by phil to try and offer musical lyrics as an example of reflecting a less political western population. The same is true on the campuses i believe.
Not releasing the pictures makes sense, we don't do that when pictures are involved in rape cases in civilian court. Why heap further humiliation on the victims? Especially those in countries where the victims are often further dishonoured by the act of rape.I think you're spot on with this. I'm still of the opinion that Obama's a principled man - but I think that despite being president, he still doesn't have as much power to change things as he expected. He's smart though, and I'm still optimistic that he'll play the long-game and still achieve real progress.*
The U-Turn over the photos is hardly suprising:
1) Obama releases photos
2) Americans somewhere in the world die at fundie muslim hands
3) Obama killed Americans
F*X would have a fuckin field day.
*ETA: I'm also quite prepared to find that he's a self-serving cunt intent on world domination.
What's needed is a clear attempt at punishing the purpetrators with some sort of overview of the investigation that is acceptable to the factions involved.
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
I don't think that was ever true tbh.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I think far from the west being less political, people are turned off by preachy bands and singers who were more in vogue in the 70's and 80's.
Of course you cannot compare the political struggles of African and South American musicians with those of the west, but I think the political element of music in the west was distilled into the dance movement of the nineties, the rave culture and the drugs all the anti-establishment stuff that was encompassed by the rejection of mainstream music and high street nightclub culture, there were plenty of political samples being used over the techno beats that replaced the likes of Billy Bragg swiftly and mercifully.
I have no idea what dwyer is really on about, it's making no sense at all because it is clearly, and I suspect deliberately, a load of bollocks, but to suggest the west is musically less political than before is utterly wrong, unless you listen to Radio One all day.
Bands like Rage Against The Machine and Asian Dub Foundation and Public Enemy did more to politicise people in the nineties than Paul Weller and Red Wedge did in the Eighties.
Who do you see as being the perpetrators? For assuming you do include those who directed the policy of torture and created the climate in which it could take place, then it's just not going to happen that they get punished. Those in high office are just about untouchable.
But images have a significantly higher impact on people's consciousnesses than does mere language. Such pictures in the general media (with faces of both perpetrators and victims pixeled out) i feel sure would arouse a strong and concerted enough reaction by the public leading to far more justice than exists now. Which in fact is almost zero.
Well, if you might be referring to the likes of geldof and bono, hobnobbing it with the political butchers, then i'd agree.
But i think the original point was that the west has become less political, as evidenced by music and what they're singing about. While third world and less developed nations have music to reflect a greater political and rebelling-against-the state criminals than does the west any more. Not an absence, but much less of it these days.
What acts from the last ten years do you reckon are the best examples of this phenomenon?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
But Fela far surpasses Marley musically.
Yes. Music is just one example though. One could certainly make a similar comparison between Western and Third World literature. But I suspect that most people here will be more familiar with music, so that's what I chose to mention.
A good way to perceive the difference is to compare, as some here have done, the Manics with Fela Kuti in terms of the threat they pose to the state. Well, in fact there is of course no comparison, but you see what I mean.
Incidentally, PK: leave this thread immediately. We're having a serious discussion here and there is no place for you.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Don't bullshit me with your fake authority, poortom... oh sorry, I meant phildwyer.
You couldn't manage a serious discussion about anything, you shitty little troll.
Jade Goody is black, remember?
Fuck off back to MATB, and see if you can beg them to let you run it.
fela kuti surpasses just about everybody musically! Both in quality and quantity. Also, not only did he leave us his music, but his other real legacy is leaving us a whole musical genre. And would i have liked to have had a few evenings at the shrine in lagos in the days...
As for the literature, retroactively a certain gurdjieff would back you up on this!
Finally, as for fela kuti, one of his funniest and greatest moves was to declare a certain area of nigeria to be an independent republic!!! Unreal, no wonder he pissed off the criminals running the country so much.
If you say he was, he must have been. That's the amazing thing innit, you can be so totally right and so totally wrong all at the same time...
revol68
what, fucking what?
No it's a fact Bob Marley was Rastafarian and pimped that shit.
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