A thread of wrestling

Discussion in 'general sports' started by kained&able, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    AEW Seemingly Purchases 'Wednesday Night War' Domains, Furthering Feud With WWE

    Its so hard to predict how this will all pan out. I think its safe to say that WWE have run off so many fans this century that there are more than enough of them to build a huge new audience with. But how many of those people will actually watch AEW is a big unknown.

    I was originally hoping that AEW would not keep acknowledging and poking at WWE or have this sort of war, but I think I was wrong about the situation. I was thinking of all the pathetic ways Impact used to do this, and how low-rent it made them seem at times. But it looks like a fair chunk of AEWs support comes from fans that are anti-WWE and want some aspects of AEW to reflect this. Plus, once AEW started getting ticket sales etc that made the TV industry interested in them, Vince was never going to leave them alone. He has always had a ruthless desire to destroy the competition, and he takes this threat seriously, unlike TNA which was such a minnow that a proper 'war' was not at all sustainable.

    I suppose one eventuality is that all of WWEs issues, from crap product to too much product to too much micro-management by an increasingly old and out of touch and spread too thin Vince McMahon, declining ratings, network numbers decline, live attendance decline, unhappy wrestlers, getting into a war with hot new competition and Vinces attention being spread even thinner when his new american football league starts, eventually leads to doom. Doom for Vince if not for WWE itself (they have too much revenue from tv etc deals for the company to die within the lifetime of these multi-year deals), nothing lasts forever, not even Vince McMahon as master of his own empire.

    I dont know if it will happen like that. There is always a chance WWE will find fresh success with something and change momentum. If they fail to do that, then the timing of all of this is certainly interesting, it could become a perfect storm. When I think of all the times they wasted my time as a viewer, by not sticking to the stories that are supposed to engage us, or not letting hot new stars be the wrestlers and stars they should be, I am certainly on the long list of people who think WWE deserve to have their ass handed to them. I've been after an alternative that ticks all the right boxes for me for almost 19 years now, when they dropped the Kurt-Steph-HHH love triangle angle in a manner that foreshadowed how they would be careless with storylines ever since.
  2. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Oh Schiavone is also in at least one of their All Out hype videos. I havent caught up with all of these yet, I will probably watch some of them in the coming days as we get closer to that show.

  3. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    My big worry with AEW is that it’s almost too much like WCW. Wrestlers booking the shows and having creative control over their characters is always a recipe for disaster and part of the reason why WWE is so micro managed to that end.

    If however they can book engaging fueds with excellent matches and not too much “blood and gore” which I doubt TNT will go for anyway as like WWE they will have advertisers to please.
  4. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    There are things that can go wrong with their wrestler-booker setup, but I wouldnt compare it to WCW. There have been successful bookers who were still active wrestlers plenty of times in the past. The situation with bullshit involving egotistical, insecure megastars with creative control clauses in their contracts was a problem, but that really isnt the same as letting wrestlers book. Rather its interfering with booking, refusing to do a job, and adding to the toxic atmosphere at that company. An atmosphere that drove off the wrestlers who got a good portion of their self-respect from giving a shit about the quality of the matches and their own work rate.

    Some of the main potential pitfalls with booking can happen whether its an active wrestler doing the booking, a former wrestler, or someone who didnt have an in-ring career themselves. Burnout and repeating themselves are big ones, as well as learning the wrong lessons from specific successes and failures. Many bookers, including famous wrestler-bookers of their time, ended up with mixed records. They had boom periods where they were considered to be great, periods where putting themselves over as the top star was entirely in tune with what their audience wanted, and periods where everything was sliding rapidly towards doom, and where their positioning of themselves on the card was at odds with what the audience wanted. Dusty Rhodes was probably a good example of both the good and bad at different moments, and hopefully Cody learnt the right lessons in that regard.

    As for why WWE is so micro-managed. Well, back in the Monday Night wars, a key difference between WWF and WCW was that it was very clear who was boss in WWF, and that alters the backstage dynamic a lot. But if we look at the periods where McMahon had his greatest successes, it often involved the right blend of what the company, bookers, agents etc wanted, and how the wrestler would take that and make it work with his character and promos. There may have been some scripting, but not the sort of bullshit corporate speak that they force many wrestlers these days to deliver in ways that just dont seem very human. Plus WWE in the last decade or so decided to indulge in further counter-productive corporate brain farts such as trying to convince their audience that their brand is the thing that matters, and to de-emphasise individual superstars. That really is part of their corporate philosophy these days, and it shows, and its bloody stupid. The business was always built on stars and particular feuds they got in that really put bums on seats. People can care about specific promotions too, but a lot of that represents a core base audience, and for success and boom periods you need a wider buzz with the public.

    Blood and gore will likely be a special attraction type thing that they only do at pay-per-views. They will probably do that sort of thing a little more than I would like, but as long as they dont become a one trick pony I think that will be ok, and was very much a small but significant part of the traditional pro wrestling they seem to be trying to recreate with AEW.

    I suppose my concerns are about whether any of their wacky stuff turns some people off - eg some of the stuff they did on pre-shows, which might not have been taking account of the fact they were making first impressions which might stick. And there is a big difference between writing, producing etc the shows they have done so far, and churning out hours of television every single week. I wonder about the size of their roster. I wonder about some of the moves WWE might try to pull. I think they've got a fair chance of being ok, and more than ok, certainly the best chance anyone has had in the last 20 years. I've no idea what to expect from their weekly TV, maybe I wont love it. I'm not exactly someone who has been religiously watching 'being the elite' for however long that show has been going.
    cybershot likes this.
  5. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    You could also argue social-media/Internet is also a big factor why WWE is the way it is now. Wrestlers are real people. Gone are the days for example where Bundy would have to hide under a cover in the back of a car to get out of an arena, or Sgt Slaughter's wife would have to have 24/7 guards around their home. Kayfabe is dead.

    Egos and just blarting straight out on social media is a huge problem. Sasha Banks for example can go and pull her shit after dropping the tag titles at WrestleMania, which back before days of internet would have seen her buried and never return, let alone return straight to the top of the card, which seems to be way WWE do things these days and pisses me off. Want a push? You may as well purposely injure yourself so you're off for 3 months and then you'll pretty much instantaneously return to a mega push! :beardy:
  6. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Never say never was always the safer bet with wrestling. People who seemed to burn bridges in a rather permanent way often returned given enough time.

    Part of it is due to Vince - he is one of those crazy billionaire types who doesnt want people to challenge him, but at the same time the people who stand up to him and spar with him are more likely to win his respect.

    For example, Bobby Heenan avoided publicly having a go at Vince. He didnt get his job back, while others who had been far less restrained in their years away from WWF did. Such are the joys of having to deal with the contradictions of billionaire bosses.

    Personally in many scenarios I side with the wrestlers, and for every idiot that refused to do a job for shit reasons, there are people who did the right thing in standing up to nonsensical shit that harms their ability to get over. I also take this stance because of the way WWE have long classified their wrestlers as 'independent contractors' for all sorts of crappy reasons. So it serves them right when the talent actually acts like independent entities by refusing to have their value destroyed by Vinces crap whims. Also, in the past the top stars of WWE would have more say in terms of their character, storylines and the lines scripted for them, and this was often a good thing, not a bad thing.

    I think I am only able to take this stance because the mindset of the current generations of wrestlers is quite different to the 1980s & 1990s wrestlers. The lifestyle is different, the attitude towards in ring workrate is different, the attitude towards the audience is different - its not just that kayfabe is gone, but also other carnival aspects such as treating the audience as stupid money marks who deserve to be exploited. I think WWE management actually has its own modified modern version of this, eg they dont give two shits about how often they false advertise a wrestler or match, and I think it costs them over time and is out of step with what a modern promotion can do in terms of its relationship with the fans.

    WWE attitude towards the fans is another example of their shit corporate speak and how they have been trying to make everything about the brand and not superstar wrestlers. The WWE Universe. Just fuck off with that shit. I enjoy wrestling so much more when I dont have to digest such phrases. It will be so easy for AEW to come across as more authentic compared to this shit.

    Anyway I see that WWE still has the silly attitudes towards leaks - apparently they didnt announce the NXT stuff on Raw last night because they were pissed off that news had leaked.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  7. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    How was NXT UK? I only had time to watch AEW All Out, which I enjoyed.

    I see that not only was Jericho the first WWF Undisputed champ, and the first AEW world champion, but has probably also set the record for the quickest theft of a new belt!

    Chris Jericho reports wrestling title belt stolen

    I would be more suspicious that this story was a work if it were not for local police confirming the story. I still retain a little suspicion. Either way I believe he has already cut a promo, which I havent seen yet, so they will make the most of the publicity.
  8. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Apparently it’s been returned.

    NXT UK was very enjoyable as well. Majority of the matches were very good. Main event perhaps went on a little too long and started to lose interest as the false finishes continued. perhaps my only gripe.
  9. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Yeah, the guy that found it reckons they probably left it on top of the boot by accident and it fell off at some stage.

    Meanwhile it sounds like Bischoff has had more power to fuck everything up on Smackdown than he should have been given. I have little idea what the weekly AEW show will actually be like, but it should at least be refreshing to have a show that lacks writers scripting everything.

    Details about that and a big writer reshuffle here:

    Inside WWE's 'SmackDown' and 'Raw' Creative Team Shakeup (Exclusive)

    I suppose I will make myself watch at least one Smackdown when it moves US station & reboots, and at least a few NXTs when that gets US TV and goes head-to-head with AEW. There will have to be drastic WWE changes for me to stick with any of their shows for more than a few weeks at a time these days, even when the Wednesday night wars begin.
  10. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

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