A thread of wrestling

Discussion in 'general sports' started by kained&able, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. mwgdrwg

    mwgdrwg Be a Pisces. Jam. Enforced Holiday Banned

    Remember Lesnar opening Orton's head with his elbow cos he was sandbagging the suplex's
     
  2. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Again, I don't think any Sandbagging was going on there. Orton went into that match trusting Lesnar enough to how it was going to finish, so I don't see why he would do that. Is Lesnar wanted to chuck Orton half way across the ring he would have.
     
    bromley likes this.
  3. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I saw a lot of people on twitter moaning about some 5 star wrestling show that got on some free uk sports tv channel at the weekend. I have not investigated what this was or how shit it was, people seemed to be moaning about all the wrestlers having the same intro music, the large building being almost completely empty, and something about prior antics of this promotion cancelling a show and blaming terror attacks.
     
  4. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    They had rather a large list of well known ex top performers. The usual *performers subject to the change disclaimer. It all seemed a bit too fishy. If you're going to put wrestling on a free to air channel, why not just try and tie in with one of the many thriving UK promotions that already exist.
     
  5. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I dunno about fishy, since it sounds like the names were actually there, but grubby in other respects for sure. Sounds like it is every Thursday, so I was wrong to say it was a weekend show.

    As for why we get deals with weird promotions instead of ones that are successful over a long period of time with homegrown uk talent, I assume there is plenty of crap business politics involved and when it comes to tv thats two shit worlds colliding. It sounds like FreeSports and PCW had some kind of agreement last year, at least PCW thought so, but in the end FreeSports went with 5 star.

    I've not see any of it but I can see why people were crying for them to tighten the ropes, jesus.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    Those ropes look loose as fuck :hmm:
     
  7. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    Bloody hell!

    I think the house was OK, but the lights were off so it looked empty. That's Zac Gibson taking the 619, a great talent.
     
  8. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I'm ashamed of how little I know of the modern UK scene, and I dont know what the crowd was like for that show or what they should be aiming for. I did hear that it was a building with an 11,000 capacity, which is a problem. There are probably some ways to work round that on TV if you really know what you are doing, to an extent, but even if you get the visuals ok the sound (or lack of) is likely to be an issue too. The way people were describing it on twitter made me think that the lights being off were the lesser of two evils in this case, and it would have looked even more rinky dink if the crowd had been visible. Better to book more suitable venues that its not so hard to make seem reasonably alive! The way this promotion is behaving so far makes me wonder if they will make it through the intended run of weekly tv shows, lets see how fast they can learn on the job.
     
  9. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I suppose I'll have to try to watch it this week now I've done all this moaning and passing on of other peoples thoughts.
     
  10. mwgdrwg

    mwgdrwg Be a Pisces. Jam. Enforced Holiday Banned

    When's it on, and where?
     
  11. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    This channel, Thursdays 7pm-10pm. I hadnt heard of it or the channel until I happened to be on twitter and saw it trending during last weeks show.

    Home | FreeSports
     
    mwgdrwg likes this.
  12. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    I take it you haven’t seen some of raw and smack down’s recent attendance figures. Smack down regularly only draws about 2,000 people. Moving people to face the camerasThe and use of black cloths do a pretty good job of hiding it.

    I can’t remember what ppv it was towards the end of the year but there were empty seats everywhere. It seems daft for them to not consider doing at least one ppv a year over here now. No matter how bad the product or card was it would sell out. I guess they have to weigh in if it’s worth the cost of shipping everyone and everything over and still come out in the Black, but raw and smack down would no doubt also sell out the following nights and tie it in with a European tour and surely it’s a winner.
     
  13. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I did factor that into my thinking, but WWE certainly count as knowing what they are doing when it comes to that side of production. And they still have a few thousand in the audience to work with, I dont have a clue how many 5 star got but the early tweets I saw made me anticipate numbers far, far lower than that. Does anybody know of a proper review of the show?

    There is also something of a stigma-inducting paranoia about timezones and showing a ppv on tape-delay that heavily influenced WWE's thinking about this for many years. I might hope that such things dont mean as much to them now because the business changed in a way that makes most individual ppv's relatively unimportant. We've certainly seen them half-ass a few especially since the brand split. But if I try to use pure logic to predict WWE then my predictions will suck! I'm sure they will continue to have a strange and mixed attitude towards UK shows and audience going forwards - just look what happened with the UK promotion they were going to setup, and the uk stars they were going to make, etc.
     
  14. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    If it's only on the WWE Network (I'm not sure how many cable outlets still carry WWE PPVs in the states, I was under the impression it was pretty much none existent now) then there's got to be scope at some point in the year where a Sunday afternoon rather than evening in the US could fit in. But yes, pretty much everything they do over here tends to be a bodge. AJs title win the exception, but that was probably down to timing more than doing it for the UK crowd.
     
  15. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    They pretend ppv is dead, and event went through that hilarious period of telling all their ppv customers that they were stupid, but quite a few people still get it that way. But sadly this isnt even the point because its already been demonstrated over the years that shows being genuinely live and not tape-delayed does not necessarily harm business at all. But myths and false assumptions still get created an sometimes they stick.

    Basically I've mostly given up on main roster WWE until VInce is out of the picture. I will watch some ppv matches but I cant spend all that time watching their tv product when there are so many hours a week, and so little care over storyline consistency. I'm not willing to invest time in storylines that may be dropped without even beginning to explain what happened, etc etc etc. Anything they fuck up in regards the uk is going to tend to get placed in the same bin as I put all this other shit of theirs in. At least I've got NXT in the meantime, which is more in keeping with the amount of time I used to spend watching WWF as a teenager anyway, including just the four 'ppv equivalent' shows a year.
     
  16. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Ditto, I don't bother with the weekly shows, just the PPVs and I think theres too many of those!
     
  17. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Found some possible 5 star audience numbers off some forum. What are described as generous estimate of 600-800, with only 44 people on the side that the hard camera sees.

    Also talk of only about 400 seats sold for the Newcastle show so far, with 80% of floor seats still available.
     
  18. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    They're trying to be a family friendly show. Interesting how a promotion without a large fanbase has a tv deal. 11k is ridiculous too big for the British scene. I think the modern day (this century) record is ICW fear and loathing IX of 6k and that is their equivalent of wrestlemania and featured, Kurt Angle, Rick O'Shea, The Dudley Boys and some chap called Finn Balor.
     
  19. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    After all that I forgot to watch their show this week.
     
  20. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Went looking for reviews, didnt really get a sense of match quality but it sounds like they improved a few things at least - entrance music, tighter ropes, lights.

    I'm going to assume the crowd still looks & sounds rather feeble.
     
  21. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    The Newcastle show is on now. What’s with those ropes!

    Mysterio Vs haskings is pretty good.

    Attendance is awful.
     
  22. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Rich Swann released, on his Birthday.

    Ziggler, has surprisingly in my book. Signed a new deal. Expected him to look elsewhere when the likes of Cody Rhodes have been so successsful working elsewhere.

    Rey Mysterio expected to sign a similar contract to how Jericho’s works later in the year allowing him to work elsewhere and have months on and months off.

    DDP expected on this weeks RAW.

    Jeff Hardy may be back in time for mania which should see the woken gimmick get moving properly.

    Triple H now has full control of 205 live. With him sealing the rousey deal it’s expected he could be fully running the company by the end of the year. While it would always be difficult to run RAW in the same manner as NXT this can only be a good thing for those that actually prefer to watch matches! Hopefully.
     
  23. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I think theres an impression that Ziggler might be one of those wrestlers for whom it really is all about WWE, even when misused and held down, breaking free and doing it your own way like Cody has done (with far better results than most expected) is not for everyone.

    I dont have enough WWE faith to allow myself to care about the woken gimmick at the moment. Yes it might improve with Jeff back, in part because WWE have never had much faith in Matt and that sadly hasnt changed. And programmes with Bray Wyatt seem to have been very bad for lots of wrestlers momentum for years now, Matt wasnt unique in that regard. Still a big shame though.

    I've read reviews of 205 live since the reboot and it sounds promising, although they were still doing that show too late in the show from the live audience perspective so the crowd was still mostly dead. I hadnt heard about the prospect of HHH having full control by the end of the year, wouldnt surprise me if it happened but also wouldnt surprise me if it took longer than that, and its hard to imagine Vince not meddling unless he is incapacitated.
     
  24. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    And yeah I am looking forward to the HHH era. I realy like most of what he has done with NXT and some of the other one-off shows (I assume he was involved with cruiserweight classic and uk stuff for example). And there is really just the one main area which I consider to be his chief known fault - decisions made when it comes to the booking of himself as the HHH character. There have been many examples of talent being unnecessarily buried by specific HHH-related booking decisions, over pretty much this entire century of WWF/E. Yes for many years he wasnt the one making those decisions, but he had the ear of the right people and it showed. All the signs so far are that whether it be Vince or Steph or HHH making the call on a HHH character related promo, match result, spot in the match, or who is left standing tall in the ring in the end after delivering another audience-crushing, all too predictable, unneccesary pedigree, the balance betwen him looking good and the other talent getting over is wrong too often. Things have been amazingly consistent on those fronts all through this century so far.

    Since his in-ring career wound down it doesnt get on my nerves as much as it used to, and it wont hamper as many other talents as it used to. But I mention it now because in most other respects he's always been considered a genuine student of the game, and stuff in NXT has shown this off. He's also probably won some people over by smoothing over the relationship with certain WWF legends who were estranged from WWF/E and Vince for years, eg getting Bruno Sammartino to go into the WWE Hall Of Fame. And yet one of the big WWE problems in this latter part of the Vince era has been along the lines of burying the wrong talent at the wrong time, killing peoples pushes with shitty booking, stubbornly sticking to plans for years regarding who should be the next 'top of the company' star despite fam reaction and repeated failure (eg Roman Reigns). And the reverse with WWE being stubborn about who should not be the next big star even when the audience want the guy big time (Daniel Bryan). And then turning aspects of that behind the scenes dynamic into real storylines, often involving Steph and HHH (again, regarding Daniel Bryan). So I'm very much waiting to see whether even though HHH has starred in many of these segments that have arguably not been good for the companies popularity over the years, it's really just Vince making the shit calls and HHH will have more humility about his own character when he is fully in charge. Not convinced, but its possible. Also bonus points for some of HHH's most silly WrestleMania costumes/entrances which are not exactly short of ego eccentricities either!

    I have have finally remembered to watch some 5 star wrestling tonight! The ropes still look dodgy for doing certain kinds of moves on (eg moves where you jump from the mat to a rope and then spring back off). The tv product looks a little better visually than I was expecting, but I stand by my previous comments about getting more appropriately sized buildings for this size of audience. I dont think I'm going to sit through the whole show, some bits of it seem to be ok but I just find it so hard to get into properly when there are so many moments where we need to hear a lively audience and the one available here is just not big enough to bring the required energy, heat etc. Dont get me wrong, there are moments I can forget about this or just about enough of a reaction is heard that the product is ok, but those moments dont last. Ah, Grado just turned up as I type this.
     
  25. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Hmm I think the ropes are even shitter than I thought, people cant even run the ropes without it looking like far more of a human catapult than is normal.
     
  26. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    The production is quite good. To be fair, but yeah. Using arenas with only a few hundred in attendance and this won’t last long.
     
  27. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Looks like they took my advice.



     
  28. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I'm getting partial deja vu. I seem to remember the long, slow death of the brand split last time involved giving up on brand-specific ppv's at some stage.

    It's better for show quantity and quality but bad news for the wrestlers further down the card on either brand. And maybe more shows will go to 4 hour+ in length now due to pressure to find match slots.
     
  29. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    Podcast I listened to claimed 5 hours, incl. pre-show.

    'kin 'ell...
     
  30. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Rumours circulated late last week that double j Jeff Jarrett was getting inducted into hall of fame. Which would be a huge surprise considering the back story.

    Well. It’s just been confirmed.

     

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