A thread of wrestling

Discussion in 'general sports' started by kained&able, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    That might change though, Raw was bloody great this week.
     
  2. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    Right cheesed off that Raw and Smackdown aren't available on WWE Network until about three weeks after broadcast :(
     
  3. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    Hey, it took long enough to the get the network at all in this country due to the Murdoch deals!

    I actually watched RAW pretty much in it's entirety for the first time tonite (they're always posted to YT, but zoomed in so as not to 'content match'). Finn, fuck me already you gorgeous creature :oops: I admit I tired of him on NXT way back when he first should have been sent to the main roster (before/at/or after Dallas), but now that he's there I'm so happy to see him going all the way. Hell, even putting him over Owens - who should have been champion by now - I'm good with. Demon Balor to the moon, at least until Shinsuke Nakamura arrives.

    ...and Sasha (my second favourite wrestler, prior to the arrival of Nakamura) grabs the women's belt! Is she actually bonefide face now?

    My biggest regret of the draft? Corey Graves (the best colour guy since Bobby Heenan) going to RAW instead of Smackdown. NXT is taped Mondays, which means he won't be available anymore :(

    Hoping for a number of the CWC guys turning up in NXT in the coming months (I actually expected NXT to be gutted for the draft, and for them to replace them - convienient timing and all). Kota Ibushi has done some tapings but has denied signing. Pay TJP whatever he wants, please, he's awesome.
     
  4. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I think they announced the other week that Raw will have a cruiserweight division so its possible that many guys from the CWC tournament will bypass NXT and go straight to Raw.

    Also pleased to hear that some ex-WWE wrestlers are returning for the 'new era' with Shelton Benjamin being the most notable example officially confirmed so far.
     
  5. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Meanwhile in comedy drug test news, not only will Brock Lesnar escape WWE punishment for his UFC drug test failure, but apparently he is completely exempt from the WWE 'wellness policy' because he is only part-time.
     
  6. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    :D

    I like Corey Graves as well. Raw was good, haven't watched Smackdown yet. bit annoyed with the McMahon family drama returning. I like the pre and post match interviews, although reigns was dull as ever the jobber 101 was entertaining!

    Rollins V Ballor will be great but I want to belt to be on Owens! :(
     
  7. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    Phenomenal week away from RAW/Smackdown.

    Ciampa v Gargano: MOTY contender. Absolutely vicious match between the tag team partners. To think pre-draft I was worried for the future of my beloved NXT; they have these two guys, Dash & Dawson, Joe, Nakamura, Aries, Roode. Holy shit, indeed!

    ...and then there's the English Gentleman, Jack Gallagher. A twisty-turny thing if ever there was one! Whoever eliminates him from the tournament is gonna get booed out of Florida.

    Looking forward to Brooklyn (I'm on hols that week and will probably adjust to olympics-friendly time, so I may watch live), the card's looking fucking packed: -

    Joe vs Nakamura
    (Newly heel) Asuka vs Bailey
    Revival vs Ciampa & Gargano
    Aries vs José

    Roode and Moon both have unfinalized matches, so I'm guessing my beloved Dillinger will be on job duty for Roode, and presumably Kay for Moon?
     
  8. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    As you easily predicted, NXT takeover Brooklyn 2 was a most excellent show, one that made Summerslam look weak by comparison on a number of fronts including crowd reaction, match quality and ring entrances.

    Oh what a downer the terrible Summerslam injury nightmare was for Finn Balor and everyone who was happy to see Vince finally pushing a great worker as a star from day 1 on the main roster shows. Universal champ (shit title name) for only a day, now facing shoulder surgery :( Given that Rollins injured Sting (twice in the same match) with the same sort of move I'd rather not see the move again from him unless its modified to reduce risk if possible.
     
  9. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    Fucking sucks for Balor. Those years in Europe, his time in Japan and a considerable stint in the 'developmental' territory all pay off when, within weeks of appearing on Raw for the first time, he wins the hideous new belt ("Hey, we want some new belts!" :D) at the second biggest show of the year (I think that's actually the Rumble, but I digress...) over the top guy in the company. Fucking fantastic, but, oh, he's gonna be out for six months!? :( And of course Banks is out too, so it's presumably back to Rollins and Charlotte for business as usual! I really hope they just give Owens the belt - he's gonna have to have a good run with it at some point so it might as well be now. Of course, he's gonna look fucking silly decked out in black and white carrying that monstrosity over his shoulder. That was the only match I watched in full, I casually skipped through most of the show. Srsly, what the fuck was the end all about? New Jack Lesnar fails a drugs test or two so they need to reestablish him as a hard arse? I know I'm a pussy, and I don't like blood in wrestling at all, but THAT and on THIS show? I've never liked Orton, but supposedly he was practically in tears after that. Good on Jericho standing up to him afterwards.

    *Just read that Balor's had the surgery now and supposedly everything went like clockwork. And good move showing the incident on TV, make clear that the really small guy by WWE's standards is a fucking hard bastard! :cool:

    As for Takeover, I thought the throwaway matches at the start were mostly terrible, but all three title matches were excellent, especially the tag match (yet another MOTY contender - we're having quite the run on these lately).

    José v Aries - loved the conga at the start. Not bad in ring.
    Moon v Kay - new gear and music for Kay, though I think her gimmick is still that she has long legs (dafuq?). Moon comes out all mysterious in a veil and with bright red eyes, then she does a little dance (again, df?) :facepalm: :D Dreary wrestling followed by a ridiculously dangerous-looking finisher. Asuka will not be taking one of those.
    Glorious theme song v Almas - The crowd quite rightly boo the luchador turned pimp, not forgetting his being put over my boy, Dillinger, in June. Why does he wear trousers over his full-length tights? Roode is a heel, apparently. There was some wrestling that I couldn't be forced to care about which finished with what was quite clearly a pumphandle slam. Big whoop.
    Revival v Ciampa & Gargano - really expected to see the belts switch hands here. More classic old school grinding and skullduggery from Dash and Dawson. Getting sick of these endless "oh look, he/she is gonna turn" bits though. If they aren't gonna get the belts then they should be split up, they're both too good to be in a midcard tag team on NXT. This was D&D's fourth excellent Takeover match in a row.
    Asuka v Bailey - people weren't hyped for this, but I thought it turned out to be a much better match than the Dallas one. Asuka is a total bad ass and she's undefeated, of course she's gonna win but the loss is hardly gonna be worn around Bailey's neck on Raw (I was actually expecting SD, but there you go).
    Joe v Nakamura - OMG! OMG! OMG! Cool fucking entrance for SN and thought the action was great too. Have loved Joe's promos as champion but the belt HAD to go to the man who is very much the best thing in WWE. Peeps are expecting Joe to show up on Raw/SD now, but I'm no longer convinced that's the plan for him.
     
  10. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Well there has been blood in rather a lot of the Lesnar matches since his original return. So I don't think this particular match had much to do with the drug test failure. The situation is a bit dangerous and absurd though because officially WWE doesn't allow blood or blading, so they have this pretence that the blood in Lesnar matches is an unplanned accident when usually it isn't. But that means people getting blood the hard-way, which is hardly safer than blading, especially when it's Lesnar opening up someone with his elbow. In some other ways Ortons health was actually protected earlier in the match, with suplex's executed in a manner that took into consideration Ortons history of shoulder and neck problems.

    The altercation with Jericho, although beginning with Jerichos concern for Orton, only escalated due to bad timing and WWE restricting the info about whether that was the planned finish to very few individuals who were not forthcoming with Jericho when he first went to the gorilla position and asked. Apparently Lesnar came through the curtain at the wrong moment and misinterpreted Jericho saying bullshit in response to not being told what was going on. It does sound like Lesnar talked a lot of shit to Jericho in response and the way I saw it reported there was a hint that Lesnars comments included a lot of homophobic shit.

    Having Orton lose in such a manner is just the latest instant failure to make Smackdown seem like a strong and equal brand. Many assumed WWE would drop the ball with the brand split again but in some ways its happening in record time this go around.

    I too would not like to make any assumptions about whether Joe will ever be destined for the main roster.

    Yeah Roode needs a better finisher. And yet another wrestler who is setup to be a heel in many respects, but the crowd want to cheer him and the entrance & music is total babyface stuff too, at least for now.

    A big problem with the first Asuka Bailey match was that the crowd hadn't been conditioned to expect Asuka to win via that submission hold, so the crowd didn't see the climax coming. No such problems this time and good storytelling in the ring. Asuka matches still look a bit tricky to book though because the crowd have trouble buying her selling - not because it is crap but they seem to credit her with a level of invincibility that makes credible opposition a challenge.

    Nakamura is god.
     
  11. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    Not liking these new belts and what Brock did to Orton.
     
  12. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    Whoop whoop whoop!!!
     
    bromley likes this.
  13. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    And so World of Sport returns to ITV today at 5pm lol. With Jim Ross announcing. It's being called a one-off but there are plenty of stories that it's a test and a proper comeback could follow if it does well. Not sure that will happen, especially since WWE announced a UK division, and I have no idea what to expect from tonights show but I am curious.
     
  14. QueenOfGoths

    QueenOfGoths Fuck you Dave!

    I am watching. And introducing the small one to it!
     
  15. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    TBH, it's boring the arse off me. Can't see the ratings justifying a full return. Who is it aimed at exactly?

    Wish I'd saved the NXT Osaka show to watch tonite
     
  16. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    Aimed at families, WWE UK is in response to WOS. I thought the show was alright for what it was.

    Can't stand having Goldberg back on TV.
     
  17. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Apparently New Japan Pro Westlings Westle Kingdom 11 even featured one of the best pro wrestling matches ever - Kazuchika Okada v Kenny Omega. I've not watched it yet, trying to decide whether to wait for the US TV version that has Jim Ross on commentary that airs later in January before trying to get a copy.
     
  18. cyril_smear

    cyril_smear Well-Known Member

    Is Hulk Hogan still champ?

    It's not what it used to be mid 90's to early 00's...
     
  19. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    In terms of the big US promotions, there was a long slump after the death of WCW, a death which is in part the fault of Hogan & chums and the silly corporate reality that allowed them to get away with it for so long that the company died.

    Mass mainstream popularity of wrestling has not returned since the slump that set in when WWE had no proper competition. It's not clear if or when it could go mainstream again to the extent that happened when, for example, Stone Cold Steve Austin captured a wider section of the publics imagination for a while.

    However, for the hardcore wrestling fan recent years have seen a blossoming of a great new era, a welcome shift towards quality wrestling from a variety of promotions around the globe. Even WWE is having to face the fact that these days being able to work really well is so much more important than being large.
     
    bromley likes this.
  20. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    "Heeeeeey! Hey, Jesus! I wanna knooooooow, will you be my god?!"

    I must now ask myself - do I watch this or Sherlock tonite?
     
  21. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    recon UFC will have had an impact on losing the audience? I know they have none of the theatrical storylines and are not flamboyant and, well choreographed but I could see the cross over appeal...
     
  22. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Yes the UFC is major competition for the WWE - WWE deny it but they have known it to be true for years now really.

    I dont think it was a very big factor in the big slump I mentioned though. That was more due to a lot of WCW fans not switching to WWE when they bought WCW. And the inevitable cycles that wrestling endures in terms of reaching beyond its base in a big way, which usually happens when a wrestling star becomes a superstar eg Hogan, the Rock, Stone Cold. And WWE creative going stale which was partly due to a lack of competition and nowhere else significant for the wrestlers to threaten to go to if they were used badly by WWE. I doubt the number of premature deaths last decade helped either. But yeah I dont doubt that later erosion of audience involved UFC getting hot at just the point where WWE was stuck in a 'PG' era with John Cena as the main man. And more recently RAW becoming 3 hours long probably hasnt helped.
     
  23. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    That and the 'lets go Jesus, Jesus sucks' chants were quite something. Even Michael Cole wasnt too bad on commentary and Nigel McGuiness was excellent. Was the usual watered down WWE product in other ways though compared to what many of those wrestlers do elsewhere given more time & less limits.

    I suppose my ideal UK televised wrestling in 2017 would involve a blend of what we saw in the WWE UK tournament and the World of Sport revival - eg WoS had a broader talent pool with better promos but I hated the frequency of crowd shots and some other production aspects of that show. Actually that reminds me that I never finished watching it, must do that.

    Apparently the World of Sport rating, while nothing special, was good enough that plans to do more TV shows are still alive.
     
  24. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Although to be fair to the WWE UK thing, my comments about the matches being watered down applied more to the first night than the second. And the final was really very good.
     
  25. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    Looks like ICW will be on the WWE Network, this is huge news!

    WWE went stale after the invasion angle (I hate thinking of how bad that was, and Bischoff coming out and hugging Vince.) I don't think there were many WCW or WWE fans with both just being fans of wrestling. The problem is when the product was good it attracted casual fans, nowadays I fast forward a lot of the show despite being a pretty hardcore (would go on wrestling related websites) fan during that time. They've had some great stars recently but have misused, this wouldn't have happened during the Monday Night Wars.

    I think the main shows are getting better, especially with Jericho and Owens but it's still 50/50 booking and fairly dull. 20 years of heel ownership?
     
    elbows likes this.
  26. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Hard to believe that Vinces original plan involved ditching Raw and having Nitro as the Monday show after he purchased WCW. Given the limited number of WCW wrestlers they bought the contracts of, it was always going to be hard to do an invasion that felt somewhat realistic but they dropped the ball in so many more ways than that. Certainly a key moment in the downward trajectory.

    Certainly there were many general Wrestling fans that watched both but especially in the USA there were fans who were very loyal to one or the other and considered the competing company to be crap. I suppose this was for many historical reasons such as lots of people in some parts of the country becoming WCW viewers as the old territories died. And the WWF being too cartoony for a lot of peoples tastes for a big chunk of the 80's and 90's. And some people, like my dad in the UK, followed certain former WWF stars when they jumped to WCW and never went back to WWE. I think the big thing missing from my previous comments was I didnt acknowledge just how many WCW fans stopped watching wrestling long before Vince bought WCW, because of how crap WCW became in its last years.

    Better in places for sure but I struggle to watch regularly due to how long Raw is and how much better the matches in NJPW are.

    You have certainly hit the nail on the head in regards '20 years of heel ownership' - the heel authority figure as the centre of storylines is so far beyond stale and this is one thing that may not improve as Vince fades out of the picture because both Stephanie and Hunter appear to love putting themselves over on TV at the expense of getting the real talent over.
     
  27. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    I can't believe that Vince would drop Raw, that show is basically family to him! I think the idea (I think we're both reciting 16 year old internet rumours) was to have a WCW and WWE brand competing against each other, which sounds familiar.

    On the contract front, DDP actually waved off his contract, which was nearly a year of guaranteed money, because like the fans he thought the angle would be huge (should've been the biggest one ever) and be financially better for him. As I was actually one of the few in the UK who would watch Nitro quite religiously on TNT/Bravo I managed to block out most of the invasion angle, but the Undertaker's then wife Sara actually pinned DDP on an episode of Raw. DDP could have easily been a main eventer in a brand split situation. It's like they didn't want it to draw money. Quite interesting which stars weren't interested in the angle and kept their contract, brother.

    On the promotion loyalty, the show after Booker T and Buff main evented a Nitro on Raw and both got burred was in Atlanta, why didn't they do the Nitro show there? I imagine there is a large section of southern raslin' fans who have left it forever now, unless AJ Styles has won some of them back! How crap WCW was under Russo is another thing I blocked out, although giving the big gold belts to Booker T and Scott Steiner were great moves. When Bischoff had it before the company's death he introduced a cruiserweight tag team title which I'm surprised hasn't been repeated, especially by TNA. Perhaps 205 live my use it, no doubt a woman's tag team title can't be far off now that they are being promoted as athletes and having great matches.

    3 hour raw is just ridiculous! Nitro used to be 3 hours and the first hour literally nothing would happen apart from a really good cruiserweight match and recaps of the last week's main event, which I would usually miss as Raw's main events were usually superior. If it wasn't for Sky+ I would have given up with WWE a decade or so ago. Stephanie definitely loves to be the center of attention, not sure about hunter though, he isn't on screen that much and doesn't play the NXT authority figure, although he seems to be a face on that show and a heel on Raw! That said it's a joke that he main evented 'mania last year.
     
  28. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    The cynics think Hunter hasnt been on Raw much because he doesnt want to be associated with the shitty tv ratings they do during american football season. Time will tell.

    As for the 'WWF Nitro on Mondays' thing it wasnt just an internet rumour, it was well sourced stuff by proper wrestling journalists like Dave Meltzer. It does seem hard to believe, but Vince isnt always predictable and changes his mind a lot. One thing he has been consistent with is rarely respecting or favouring stars that were made outside WWE, so the angle would probably have been quickly doomed even if it had started off on a better footing.

    The disaster that was Stone Cold turning heel was another factor I missed that drove off casual fans quickly, but that one was actually Stone Colds idea, what a mistake!
     
  29. bromley

    bromley ...isn't as good as Lewisham.

    I thought the rumble was pretty decent. :)
     
  30. Nine Bob Note

    Nine Bob Note Prickly Pollster

    Good up until the Rumble itself.

    NXT was v. good - loving the Aussie meangirls and their antics. Strong showing, even in defeat, for my boy Dillinger. Even AoP looked good. Not too hot for Roode though.
     

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