A thread of people still desperately trying to act like Brexit was a good thing

[Pickman's model]

Do we wanna be in an alliance with far right twats?

i don't think anyone here is in an alliance with far-right twats.

 

[Cloo]

If only wineries started selling their products in pint-sized bottles as our newly-found freedoms allow, people would finally start to see what a great thing Brexit is

All that is needed for complete victory is a return to imperial measures!

Do you remember the Tories actually did a consultation on whether people wanted that?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well it certainly hasn't been as bad as many of the doom-mongers predicted (were hoping). No supermarket shortages, no economic collapse, no WW3 breaking out over Dover, no collapse of the airline and travel industries, no mass exodus of companies etc etc.

None of the nightmare scenarios predicted by "experts" (and U75 pundits) happened.

It's been a mixed bag. Some people are definitely worse off, particularly those who've simply viewed the whole thing from a freedom of movement perspective. Others are better off, but for most, life has just continued with a few annoyances or opportunities, depending on where you stand.

It certainly hasn't been the nosedive into the abyss that some said would happen.

Can you give me an example of an opportunity created by Brexit. Just one will do, but it needs to be an opportunity that is generally available to people, so 'I managed to short the market and become a millionaire'-type scenarios don't count.

 

[philosophical]

The north of Ireland shouldn't be treated differently to the rest of Ireland, but here we are

I understand your point, but the referendum to leave, which is what is being discussed is not about the debate about the unification of the island of Ireland under one government.
In my personal opinion nationalists, including Irish nationalists, have an ideology that I don’t like at all, and I have a brother in Ballycasey, and an Irish passport myself.
To me the answer to oppression is to fight back against it, but not by holding out the prospect of nationalism as the answer.

 

[Dystopiary]

i don't think anyone here is in an alliance with far-right twats.

Oh not anyone here, I mean much of the EU.

 

[Dystopiary]

Lland of Dope and Tory.

Predictable xenophic bilge.

 

[philosophical]

View attachment 476262

‘Fraid so.
Idiots often describe the truth as shit.

 

[philosophical]

But NI left the EU along with the rest of the UK. It has a different set of rules yes, but there was nothing on the referendum question that said all constituent parts would be treated the same. This has always been one of the problems. The question was simple but a No answer could not lead to a simple resolution

Yes this point is a strong one.
If you want to break it down even more Scotland and Northern Ireland voters voted in the majority to remain.
Nobody voted leave or remain believing there would be different rules for different parts of the UK unless they were guessing the future.

 

[JimW]

Can you give me an example of an opportunity created by Brexit. Just one will do, but it needs to be an opportunity that is generally available to people, so 'I managed to short the market and become a millionaire'-type scenarios don't count.

Given a lot of liberals the opportunity to say I told you so.

 

[locallondoner]

Yes this point is a strong one.
If you want to break it down even more Scotland and Northern Ireland voters voted in the majority to remain.
Nobody voted leave or remain believing there would be different rules for different parts of the UK unless they were guessing the future.

I agree, I don’t think anyone expected different rules for different part of the UK, but that is the nature of the question. We could, as the UK, have stayed in the single market and customs union (like EEA countries) but still have left the EU (for clarity, I was a remainer and wish we had not left, but we are where we are)

 

[Spymaster]

Can you give me an example of an opportunity created by Brexit. Just one will do, but it needs to be an opportunity that is generally available to people, so 'I managed to short the market and become a millionaire'-type scenarios don't count.

No, it doesn't have to be opportunities available to everybody. I was clear that there've been winners and losers.

Industries that have gained are the fast moving growth ones, notably biotech, AI, and fintech. All posting massive gains in the UK and moving well ahead of EU competition, without the shackles of EU regulation and red-tape.

The upcoming trade deal with the US will create opportunities too but it's obviously too early to see whether it'll result in a net gain or loss against the EU.

I know you don't like this one, but opportunity has increased for skilled workers from non-EU countries to work here because the field has been levelled regarding visas and work permits.

Many consider regaining control of the UK's immigration policy to be a positive thing, though it remains to be seen what is done with that. However, many more agree that it should be dictated by the UK government, not the EU.

I could go on about political flexibility, potential for agricultural reforms/state backed investment in industry etc, but that's more subjective, and the above should give you enough to rant about for now!

 

[marty21]

As I regularly say to mainly take the piss - we could have brexited one day and rejoined the next day and that would have met the demand of the referendum - would have been hilarious if that had actually happened tbf.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No, it doesn't have to be opportunities available to everybody. I was clear that there've been winners and losers.

Industries that have gained are the fast moving growth ones, notably biotech, AI, and fintech. All posting massive gains in the UK and moving well ahead of EU competition, without the shackles of EU regulation and red-tape.

The upcoming trade deal with the US will create opportunities too but it's obviously too early to see whether it'll result in a net gain or loss against the EU.

I know you don't like this one, but opportunity has increased for skilled workers from non-EU countries to work here because the field has been levelled regarding visas and work permits.

Many consider regaining control of the UK's immigration policy to be a positive thing, though it remains to be seen what is done with that. However, many more agree that it should be dictated by the UK government, not the EU.

I could go on about political flexibility, potential for agricultural reforms/state backed investment in industry etc, but that's more subjective, and the above should give you enough to rant about for now!

Ok so that's a no. Generalities and vagueness.

 

[xenon]

Brexit is a word in common usage, but it does not mean honouring the wording of the referendum.
So a discussion about ‘Brexit’ feels a bit like a discussion about Hamlet with no acknowledgement of the Prince.
It happens with other words too, one notable one is of course ‘woke’.
Matthew Syed did a series of programmes on the wireless that described the origins of the word ‘woke’ and kind of pinned it down to Huddie Leadbetter, the Scottsboro Boys scandal, and being awake to racism.
The original ballot paper people voted on was about the UK leaving the EU. It has not happened because a constituent part of the UK, Northern Ireland, has been treated differently to the rest of the country which is not what people voted for.
I anticipate the usual abuse for making this point, but would respect an argument that establishes that the voters in 2016 deliberately intended for Northern Ireland to be treated differently to Wales, Scotland and England.

Well if we're doing all the old hits. As you know or can at least intuit, voters did not make their choice with the concious decision to treat NI differently. Because no one outside a few headbangers, really gives a shit about NI and it's basket case politics. Many of us would prefer a united Ireland in any case. You'll note since we're here again, no one voted to leave the customs union either.

 

[krtek a houby]

Basically, the UK should no more have a say over Ireland than the EU over the UK.

 

[Spymaster]

Ok so that's a no. Generalities and vagueness.

You lazy fucker!

I blow you to pieces and that's the best you can come back with?

UK biotech increased by nearly 100% last year and brought in close to £4 billion in investment, AI's worth over £20 billion, and the Brit fintech industry is now the second biggest globally. Nobody could argue that those successes haven't been amplified by Brexit deregulation (feel free to try).

How much less vague and general do you want?

 

[Pickman's model]

Well if we're doing all the old hits. As you know or can at least intuit, voters did not make their choice with the concious decision to treat NI differently. Because no one outside a few headbangers, really gives a shit about NI and it's basket case politics. Many of us would prefer a united Ireland in any case. You'll note since we're here again, no one voted to leave the customs union either.

and there's a raft of things the labour government's done since taking office which no one voted for. it's like politicians don't give a fuck why people voted for them. but i haven't seen philosophical being exercised by any of those, it's like he's a one-trick pony and that trick's been rather overdone the last 9 years.

 

[RD2003]

Brexit gave us all the opportunity to observe the insecurities and inner-terrors of the liberal left.

Forever wringing their hands and sobbing quietly but performatively, they claimed to desire decisive economic and social change, and yet, lacking the will or imagination required intervene in the process themselves, they revealed themselves, at the first hint of societal unpheaval, to want nothing more than the warm embrace of our bureaucratic, neo-liberal EU overlords. And this while blind to the fact that the overlords state quite clearly that they are there precisely to prevent decisive social and economic change in any EU member state.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Liberal trauma almost entering a second decade

The top benefit of Brexit.

 

[Ax^]

when Nigel farage is prime minister you have dippy tankies on the left saying its a win over the liberals

 

[RD2003]

when Nigel farage is prime minister you have dippy tankies on the left saying its a win over the liberals

On the contrary-they will just have to look upon the many open goals the liberals gave Farage and say with resignation 'I told you so.'

 

[Ax^]

On the contrary-they will just have to look upon the many open goals the liberals gave Farage and say with resignation 'I told you so.'

being able to say I told you so whilst the world burns is not really a goal you should be aiming for

ya daft gobshite

 

[RD2003]

being able to say I told you so whilst the world burns is not really a goal you should be aiming for

ya daft gobshite

I'm not aiming for it. It's just what will happen.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Brexit gave us all the opportunity to observe the insecurities and inner-terrors of the liberal left.

Forever wringing their hands and sobbing quietly but performatively, they claimed to desire decisive economic and social change, and yet, lacking the will or imagination required intervene in the process themselves, they revealed themselves, at the first hint of societal unpheaval, to want nothing more than the warm embrace of our bureaucratic, neo-liberal EU overlords. And this while blind to the fact that the overlords state quite clearly that they are there precisely to prevent decisive social and economic change in any EU member state.

Perfectly put.

The more the grubby reality of the EU becomes apparent - a racket designed to shovel money to the rich, to provide jobs for the political class and which is increasingly infested by the populist right - the more misty eyed the liberal left view of the EU as a sunny benevolent uplands becomes.

And not only that. But due to the votes of the unwashed -those trapped in dying towns, on the crime ridden estates, with no prospect of ever owning a home or getting a secure job - their own kids can't have a year studying in Tuscany any more and they have to join the non EU queue on their holidays.

 

[Dystopiary]

being able to say I told you so whilst the world burns is not really a goal you should be aiming for

ya daft gobshite

That's exactly what Brexit obsessives are doing.

 

[kabbes]

My liberal ex-pat uncle and his French wife were shedding bitter tears because if their daughter gets into Cambridge, she’ll have to pay the fees that foreigners pay. I didn’t have the heart to ask him what taxes he’s paid into Britain that might justify his daughter being subsidised by the British state (answer: nil).

 

[philosophical]

Well if we're doing all the old hits. As you know or can at least intuit, voters did not make their choice with the concious decision to treat NI differently. Because no one outside a few headbangers, really gives a shit about NI and it's basket case politics. Many of us would prefer a united Ireland in any case. You'll note since we're here again, no one voted to leave the customs union either.

I agree that it is only a minority of the UK population that cares about the situation in Northern Ireland.
However the conflict from the troubles loomed very large for me from my teenage years through to my early forties, so there were some of us who were aware of the potential impact of a leave victory on the Irish situation, as has proved to be the case.

 

[philosophical]

and there's a raft of things the labour government's done since taking office which no one voted for. it's like politicians don't give a fuck why people voted for them. but i haven't seen philosophical being exercised by any of those, it's like he's a one-trick pony and that trick's been rather overdone the last 9 years.

The trick is on display whenever this issue is discussed.
The vote to leave is of a different order to a vote for a government, because you get another go after about five years.

 

[Pickman's model]

The vote to leave is of a different order to a vote for a government, because you get another go after about five years.

that sentence doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[ouirdeaux]

The meaning seems fairly clear to me, whether you agree with the sentiment or not.