A song for the brave RMT strikers

[Donna Ferentes]

Hence "to all intents and purposes".

But it's not to all intents and purposes and hence theissue and the strike.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If there is a viable ongoing business, then the workers should pitch in and make it a success during this difficult time.

If anything, they should be working extra hours to sort it all out.

Try to be less glib where other people's pensions are at stake, hmmm?

 

[untethered]

Try to be less glib where other people's pensions are at stake, hmmm?

I just fail to see how striking is going to improve the situation. Obviously the workers are right to be concerned about their pensions.

 

[Wolveryeti]

What's wrong with using employment law to sort out disputes?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

What's wrong with using employment law to sort out disputes?

Because it does not provide for people whose organisations are in administration - a process which suspends a number of employment rights.

 

[Isambard]

Every time there has been strike action on London's public transport network over the last few years there have been cries and bleatings from anti strikers about Londoners on worse consitions who are effected by the strike.

What do they do in the meantime about workers in those conditions?

How do they think the transport workers got the better conditions in the first place?

 

[Roadkill]

I'm kind of sickened by the level of support for people who are basically blackmailing all Londoners.

And I'm sick of selfish morons who can't show a wee bit of solidarity with people who've been fucked over by their employers and want to protect their futures.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Every time there has been strike action on London's public transport network over the last few years there have been cries and bleatings from anti strikers about Londoners on worse consitions who are effected by the strike.

What do they do in the meantime about workers in those conditions?

What a shit argument, sorry.

I've done lots of things, including going on marches, writing both my MPs and offering free English tutoring to immigrant kids.

But even if I did absolutely nothing it doesn't invalidate my opinion. You don't need to be a plumber to see your sink is blocked etc etc.

How do they think the transport workers got the better conditions in the first place?

Just because they got better conditions partially through unionisation, doesn't mean that aggressive union tactics is the right thing for the present situation.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Just because they got better conditions partially through unionisation, doesn't mean that aggressive union tactics is the right thing for the present situation.

No. But they may very well feel that in a serious situation, serious tactics are called for. That does at least merit serious consideration, instead of the incoherent abuse people like you dish out.

 

[Wolveryeti]

And I'm sick of selfish morons who can't show a wee bit of solidarity with people who've been fucked over by their employers and want to protect their futures.

If I believed that they were being fucked over I might be onside. All I can see is announcements by LU and the Mayor assuring the strikers that no jobs will be lost, nobody transferred, and that their pensions are safe while administration is occurring. The RMT as far as i can see want more - i.e. guarantees that nobody at all will be made redundant full stop.

I take no joy in seeing people lose their jobs, but it's just unreasonable to expect a company to not make anyone redundant ever. Sometimes that's what progress requires, and pretty much all the people who were faced with redundancy took it on the chin instead of trying to fuck things up for everyone else to get the government to intervene.

 

[eoin_k]

Many people have options, though some don't. These options include hanging. As a mentalist, I'd be keen to see people use pubic switching.

Good point, well made!

 

[cesare]

Well if the workers are in it for the long term, they should realise that their first loyalty is to their employer, the second to the customers and after that to themselves.

If people desert public transport because the labour force can't be relied upon it doesn't do anyone any favours.

Bollocks.

 

[cesare]

Courtesy of Libcom, apologies for stealing and c&ping it:

The first of two 72 hour strikes by more than 2,300 workers at failed private maintenance firm Metronet is to go ahead from 6pm tonight.

The strikes were called after the company and its administrator failed to give the unequivocal guarantees on jobs, transfers and pensions that the union is seeking.

"The letter we have received from Metronet and the administrator falls way short of the guarantees our members need and deserve," RMT general secretary Bob Crow said today

"What we sought was firm, unequivocal guarantees, but frankly our members are being asked to stake their jobs and their pensions on a pig in a poke.

"The only assurances we have received about jobs and transfers cover only the period of administration, and that is simply not good enough.

"It is strange that the administrator can determine all sorts of things about the future of the PPP contracts, apparently including who the next fat-cat privateer might be, but is not in a position to give on-going guarantees on the jobs of the people who actually do the work.

"On pensions we have received no guarantee from the employer at all.

"When the government forced through the disastrous part-privatisation of the Tube, the deputy prime minister told the world that the pensions of our members would be safe.

"What we need from the administrator and Metronet is an unequivocal confirmation that Prescott's statement will be adhered to by this employer or by any other employer under the PPP. Anything less is unacceptable.

"Of course we welcome Ken Livingstone's desire to bring Tube maintenance back in-house, but the fact remains that the guarantees we need can only come from the employer.

"When the jobs and pensions of our members are at stake - not to mention the Tube upgrades that the capital cannot do without - vague assurances are not enough, and the strike by our members will go ahead at 6pm on Monday," Bob Crow said.

Metronet go under, the administrators are concerned primarily with administrating the receivership, the workers aren't being given the assurances needed - what the hell else does anyone expect? This thread stinks.

 

[cesare]

If I believed that they were being fucked over I might be onside. All I can see is announcements by LU and the Mayor assuring the strikers that no jobs will be lost, nobody transferred, and that their pensions are safe while administration is occurring. The RMT as far as i can see want more - i.e. guarantees that nobody at all will be made redundant full stop.

I take no joy in seeing people lose their jobs, but it's just unreasonable to expect a company to not make anyone redundant ever. Sometimes that's what progress requires, and pretty much all the people who were faced with redundancy took it on the chin instead of trying to fuck things up for everyone else to get the government to intervene.

You miss the point that whoever gets the private maintenance contract/s in place of Metronet will need workers to carry out that contract.

Those workers should be the ones currently doing it. Metronet's business failure should not put at risk the jobs and pensions of the current workers. Those workers will still be required and they should not be expected to be laid off or work for lesser terms and conditions simply because Metronet went into receivership rather than the private maintenance contract going to another supplier (where TUPE would have applied).

This strike is completely and utterly justified.

 

[Isambard]

Just because they got better conditions partially through unionisation, doesn't mean that aggressive union tactics is the right thing for the present situation.

So they get some of their benefits throguh the goodness of the hearts of the emloyers did they? That's why where unions are weaker, the employers of transport workers have been SO generous with pay and benefits since the Tories started to privatise land transportation 20 years ago.

 

[Wolveryeti]

You miss the point that whoever gets the private maintenance contract/s in place of Metronet will need workers to carry out that contract.

Those workers should be the ones currently doing it. Metronet's business failure should not put at risk the jobs and pensions of the current workers. Those workers will still be required and they should not be expected to be laid off or work for lesser terms and conditions simply because Metronet went into receivership rather than the private maintenance contract going to another supplier (where TUPE would have applied).

This strike is completely and utterly justified.

I think you miss the point.
a) You talk as if just because the workers have been doing a job that it's somehow their property. That's not how it works.

b) It's unreasonable to expect a company to say that they won't ever make anyone redundant which is what I think the RMT are trying to get the administrators/TFL to say.

 

[Roadkill]

b) It's unreasonable to expect a company to say that they won't ever make anyone redundant which is what I think the RMT are trying to get the administrators/TFL to say.

FFS, read the piece that cesare has quoted, and then come back when you actually understand what this is about.

 

[cesare]

I think you miss the point.
a) You talk as if just because the workers have been doing a job that it's somehow their property. That's not how it works.

b) It's unreasonable to expect a company to say that they won't ever make anyone redundant which is what I think the RMT are trying to get the administrators/TFL to say.

Read my post slowly. Do some research on outsourcing and TUPE. Try to understand that if Metronet had lost the contract to another supplier - the workers jobs would have legally transferred across (on the same terms and conditions) to the new supplier.

Metronet went under - Metronet are responsible for that; but the bigger picture is why it was outsourced to Metronet in the first place; coupled with the fact that this tube maintenance/upgrades still need to be done. It shouldn't be the workers that suffer as a result of failures to manage the outsourced private contract.

 

[JTG]

Well if the workers are in it for the long term, they should realise that their first loyalty is to their employer, the second to the customers and after that to themselves.

piss off, I have no more loyalty to my employer than suits me. what an utterly ridiculous thing to say

 

[Citizen66]

Just because they got better conditions partially through unionisation, doesn't mean that aggressive union tactics is the right thing for the present situation.

The present situation?

There's men who have done over forty years of service and are just about to retire and they haven't got a clue where their fucking pension stands because metronet has been wound up.

Those who have retired recently have been placed on 'gardening leave' whilst the administrators are spinning fucking plates so as to not have raised eyebrows.

The members of the RMT have a lot more of an idea as to what's going on, what questions aren't being answered and all this shit is being spun another direction to turn put the strikers at odds with any sympathy they may get from the inconvenienced public.

The RMT members have been told that there's a 50million black hole in the pension fund, metronet is now in administration and tfl aren't willing to confirm or deny this.

I don't give two fucks about the reactionaries here, there's workers who have spent their lives keeping the tube running who are now 'greedy' and 'holding London to ransom' just because they want to know where they fucking stand.

 

[bluestreak]

I don't give two fucks about the reactionaries here, there's workers who have spent their lives keeping the tube running who are now 'greedy' and 'holding London to ransom' just because they want to know where they fucking stand.

amen

 

[Citizen66]

And the flash video is by tim ireland from bloggerheads. Or 'manic' on the b3ta boards. I'm quite surprised by that actually as a lot of his photoshop work is fairly left and satirical.

Send all fan mail to:

http://www. bloggerheads.com/

 

[Wolveryeti]

I don't give two fucks about the reactionaries here, there's workers who have spent their lives keeping the tube running who are now 'greedy' and 'holding London to ransom' just because they want to know where they fucking stand.

Is it fair that some workers get bailed out when their pension fund collapses through management but others don't? - No.

Is it fair that the criteria for which workers do get bailed out is whether they control important tranpsort infrastructure and can disrupt peoples' lives? - No.

 

[JTG]

Is it fair that some workers get bailed out when their pension fund collapses through management but others don't? - No.

Is it fair that the criteria for which workers do get bailed out is whether they control important tranpsort infrastructure and can disrupt peoples' lives? - No.

so if it's shit for some, it should be shit for everyone? if we can't win them all we shouldn't try and win any of them?

 

[Wolveryeti]

No - if it's shit for the majority, a few shouldn't get preferential treatment through blackmail.

 

[Roadkill]

So having a trade union that actually stands up for its' members interests is blackmail?

Funny old definition of 'blackmail,' that...

 

[JTG]

'Blackmail - standing up for one's rights and asking for what was promised to you in return for your labour during the best years of your life'

 

[Wolveryeti]

Give us what we want or we'll paralyse the capital's transport network.

I don't think I've ever seen such a clear cut case of blackmail.

 

[JTG]

Put up with losing your hard earned pensions and keep working anyway, we own you so shut up and stop whinging.

Clear cut case of ordinary people being fucked over by a shitty system and then being demonised when they dare to do anything about it.

 

[Roadkill]

Give us what we want or we'll paralyse the capital's transport network.

I don't think I've ever seen such a clear cut case of blackmail.

Sticking with your definition of blackmail, any strike could be described as such since every strike involves disruption somewhere along the line. If it didn't, strikes would be pointless. Is that really what you want - despite all the advances made over the last century or so that have come about largely through trade union action?