A short message to DJs

[beesonthewhatnow]

You don't think mixing is creative then?

When you get into the realms of a good scratch DJ it can be, and there are others out there using FX/samplers/laptops in creative ways, but the vast majority of DJs out there are playing records, nothing more. It's a massively overrated skill.

 

[rutabowa]

You don't think mixing is creative then?

I'd like to see you try.

Went to a liquid a couple of weeks ago. Two DJ's and neither could mix to save their lives. You'd think a chain like liquid could employ better.

i gave up about 10 years ago, i got a whole lot of bookings tho i played some big nights! i could pick it up again in about 5 minutes i reckon. it is not even comparable to playing a musical instrument or making music though, different skills.

 

[Gromit]

When you get into the realms of a good scratch DJ it can be, and there are others out there using FX/samplers/laptops in creative ways, but the vast majority of DJs out there are playing records, nothing more. It's a massively overrated skill.

That's not a good DJ. That's just a DJ.

No one would pay £75 to see Tiesto play someone else's studio release. But they do to hear his mixes and re-mixes.

 

[Gromit]

i gave up about 10 years ago, i got a whole lot of bookings tho i played some big nights! i could pick it up again in about 5 minutes i reckon. it is not even comparable to playing a musical instrument or making music though, different skills.

Well I watched Deadmau5 spend 3 days mixing and remixing the same track over and over and over till he got it how he wanted. He must have spent longer still as it had changed slightly again when I saw him perform.


It might not be the same as composing from scratch as you have raw material to start with but it still seemed more creative and harder to me than learning to play someone else's music by rote.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Well I watched Deadmau5 spend 3 days mixing and remixing the same track over and over and over till her got it how he wanted. It might not be the same as composing from scratch as you have raw material to start with but it still seemed more creative and harder to me than learning to play someone else's music by rote.

Deadmau5 is an utter fucking prick.

 

[rutabowa]

Well I watched Deadmau5 spend 3 days mixing and remixing the same track over and over and over till her got it how he wanted. It might not be the same as composing from scratch as you have raw material to start with but it still seemed more creative and harder to me than learning to play someone else's music by rote.

that's not djing tho that is producing. yes i agree that can be creative etc.

 

[Gromit]

Deadmau5 is an utter fucking prick.

How exactly?

As I rate him. Thoroughly enjoyed every gig I've seen him at.

 

[editor]

So, all this talk of tape on faders, modifying mixers, limiters etc

Why can't DJs just learn to use a mixer properly? It's not hard, you expect any other musical performer to know how to use their instrument/voice without damaging it, why should a DJ be any different?

Mind you, some of the gear that DJs/bands have to work with in clubs is unbelievably bad.

I put on a great band recently who had just come up off a European tour where the equipment was start of the art and where the venues literally crawled with technicians and gleaming new gear... and I had 3/4s of a PA to play with, dodgy monitors, crackling cables and the buzziest amps on the planet - and no one to help.

That said, it was still a fucking great gig.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

How exactly?

Not really for a public board I'm afraid

 

[Gromit]

Not really for a public board I'm afraid

Feel free to PM me.

Being a prick doesn't stop you from being good at music. In fact sometimes it seems almost compulsory and nice succesful musicians the exception rather than the norm

 

[longdog]

All the successful musicians I've ever met have been lovely.

The worst ones I ever met were a local band who thought they were so original and artistic with a capital 'A' they were too high and mighty to play in their hometown again destined as they were for the super-stardom that beckoned.

They were so up their own arses they decided to make their 'farewell' gig by invitation only. From what I heard they played to an audience of half a dozen while me and everybody else went to the pub down the road where a half decent punk band were on

I don't know what happened to them but their pompous and cringe inducingly self-indulgent website is long gone.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Right, you bunch of fuckwitted wannabe musicians who only have the talent to play other peoples music rather than picking up a proper instrument, here's a few points:

1 - Red lights are bad.

2 - Learn to use the fucking pfl/cue button and how you use it to set an appropriate gain level for the track you're about to play

3 - Note that fucking about with channel EQ like a hyperactive child affects the above

4 - Can you hear that kind of farty, flappy noise coming from one of the bassbins? It's not musical, it's not part of your sound, so maybe you need to think about what's causing it. Hint, it's you, you moronic twat.

5 - NO FUCKING RED LIGHTS INCLUDING THE ONE THAT SAYS "CLIP" FOR HOURS ON END YOU CLUELESS CUNTS YOU'LL END UP BLOWING A BRAND NEW FUCKING PA SYSTEM


Better still, next time just book a fucking band along with a competent engineer.


Rant over.

true

Decent engineers put limiters in

true

Indeed they do.

Fuckwit DJs come along and hit the fucking bypass button.

Oh, and a limiter is useless if the signal coming from the fuckwits mixer is already clipped to fuck and is efficiently a square wave.

Some DJs know about limiters?
I keep it hidden anyway

so to recap,

the more red lights the better yes?

And for you I have a cattle prod

 

[magneze]

I once played on a rig where, on seeing me attempting to adjust the gain, the owner said "just make them all point up". I was a bit but it was his rig so I obeyed.

 

[ouchmonkey]

And for you I have a cattle prod

Man, and I thought that stuff about you all being humourless was harsh.



I've still so much to learn

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Man, and I thought that stuff about you all being humourless was harsh.



I've still so much to learn

Honestly, it's for your own good.
As for humour it is contractually forbidden to us.

 

[tendril]

I have prepared a word document that you may wish to print out and display at the decks:


Notice to DJs

 

[likesfish]

could we just be allowed to cull people who turn up on a friday night at a pub with a set of decks and whatever twat thought a pub needs some muppet playing really really lound music

 

[berniedicters]

I have prepared a word document that you may wish to print out and display at the decks:


Notice to DJs

Good idea, but I suspect you'll get the DJ equivalent of tl;dr.

The way I'd do it is just to say "Redlinin: you get one warning, and that's it, off. Speak to one of our sound techs for advice on getting the best out of our sound system. Ta."

 

[tendril]

Good idea, but I suspect you'll get the DJ equivalent of tl;dr.

The way I'd do it is just to say "Redlinin: you get one warning, and that's it, off. Speak to one of our sound techs for advice on getting the best out of our sound system. Ta."

I like to be less aggressive and maybe educate at the same time.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I like to be less aggressive and maybe educate at the same time.

yeah, but you're a shit dj innit...

 

[tendril]

yeah, but you're a shit dj innit...

I know 15 years of doing it and I still cannae mix

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

1 part jam. 1 part spoon, wot eh matey?

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Am I missing something, the original problem seems to be mostly to do with a poor PA setup.

A limiter & compressor locked away will deal with these oiks. Good PA these days have their own cut outs if too hot/too loud etc

 

[tendril]

Am I missing something, the original problem seems to be mostly to do with a poor PA setup.

A limiter & compressor locked away will deal with these oiks. Good PA these days have their own cut outs if too hot/too loud etc

Oh I don't know.... chucking a hot dirty signal through a compressor may limit it to say 0db but if the waveform is fucked up then amp damage or speaker damage can result.

Personally I want to get a small line mixer to put between the dj and the rack.... monitor this all night and you will have instant killability AND some extra inputs for mics etc. Arena.l.s.d. used to do this (only thing the knobhead did that I rated)

 

[Boycey]

Oh I don't know.... chucking a hot dirty signal through a compressor may limit it to say 0db but if the waveform is fucked up then amp damage or speaker damage can result.

this is true but it happens much later.

Personally I want to get a small line mixer to put between the dj and the rack.... monitor this all night and you will have instant killability AND some extra inputs for mics etc. Arena.l.s.d. used to do this (only thing the knobhead did that I rated)

that's how most "proper" setups run and has the added bonus of giving a full eq for the mic channels.

 

[tendril]

that's how most "proper" setups run and has the added bonus of giving a full eq for the mic channels.

Tablet is gonna buy one for us... he's got some paid work I'm gonna get the comps from Tony end of the month then just 2 18" to get and a paint job and we're ready to rock for nye. Now just for the venue.....

 

[sherriff rosco]

Oh I don't know.... chucking a hot dirty signal through a compressor may limit it to say 0db but if the waveform is fucked up then amp damage or speaker damage can result.

Personally I want to get a small line mixer to put between the dj and the rack.... monitor this all night and you will have instant killability AND some extra inputs for mics etc. Arena.l.s.d. used to do this (only thing the knobhead did that I rated)

If there`s space I`ll always take a small mixer ( A&H mixwizz at the moment). Then you an insert comps over the dj channels and vocal mics ( yes MC`s but we can do another thread about them!) on seperate channels. Also you can use another channel for master booth volume so you have control over the booth. Very handy for turning it off completely to shout at idiots!

Back to the main point Bees was making though and you`ve pointed out again.

If you send a clipped , distorted signal out of the dj mixer, no manner of compression, gain reduction or filtering will stop it damaging amps and drivers. Drivers can`t cope with square waves ...simple.

.p.


p.s. I know what you mean about Mr Arena...v.hard work that one....

 

[Moronik]

I've played in quite a few 'trendy' bars and clubs in London in the last couple of years and every one has had a piss-poor setup and needed some creative rigging to get things sorted. I always find it amazing, that this kit which is so important to the venue's livlihood, is allowed to get into such a state!


Saying that though, it IS up to the DJ to not fuck things up - only a complete amatuer would consistently redline accidentally.
Whoever owns the soundsystem is trusting the DJ to use their equipment, so a DJ should be professional about it - if they dont know anything about sound levels, they should LEARN!

Me and my mate would often be in clubs and would go over to the DJ and tell them when the sound was distorting. Some were grateful for the help and some would throw a strop! It was quite fun actually.

I admit, i have deliberately redlined systems of people i don't like, but also been on my best behaviour when using the kit of people i like.

The nicest setups i've used have been by people who are DJs and run their own sound systems - everything is beautifuly perfect.

 

[editor]

DJs and bands use my PA at the Albert in Brixton when I'm not around, and quite a few times I've got the gear out for my night to find some moronic cunt has just pulled the leads out of the powered speakers with them still switched on and the gain set to full. FULL, FFS!

 

[sherriff rosco]

DJs and bands use my PA at the Albert in Brixton when I'm not around, and quite a few times I've got the gear out for my night to find some moronic cunt has just pulled the leads out of the powered speakers with them still switched on and the gain set to full. FULL, FFS!

POP!

The worst sound in the world

.p.