A short message to DJs

[beesonthewhatnow]

So, all this talk of tape on faders, modifying mixers, limiters etc

Why can't DJs just learn to use a mixer properly? It's not hard, you expect any other musical performer to know how to use their instrument/voice without damaging it, why should a DJ be any different?

You spend enough time learning how to beatmatch/scratch/whatever, why not take the time to learn how to use the tools of your trade?

 

[rutabowa]

you are right but...
if you gave someone who didn't have the slightest clue about djing a couple of records they could play them and people would still probably enjoy it, and most wouldn't even be able to tell that the person had never done it before. the same is not true with any other musical instrument.

 

[berniedicters]

you are right but...
if you gave someone who didn't have the slightest clue about djing a couple of records they could play them and people would still probably enjoy it, and most wouldn't even be able to tell that the person had never done it before. the same is not true with any other musical instrument.

You could say that of the recorder: anyone can get a recorder to make a noise.

All musical instruments - recorders, violins, mixers - are capable of being used/played badly in untrained and insensitive hands. The advantage of the violin over the other two is that it takes considerably more effort to get any noise out of it at all; the advantage of the recorder is that, eventually, the 4 year old blowing it like a train whistle will run out of breath and stop. Not so for Mister Deejay Man.

And the only things ineptly played violins and recorders (and a late submission here: the clarinet) will damage are tempers and nerves (and possibly the instruments themselves). Not so for Mister Deejay Man.

I'm guessing the OP is a heartfelt plea from someone looking after a PA and seeing it suffer because of the incompetence of the performer on his chosen instrument...

 

[Boycey]

So, all this talk of tape on faders, modifying mixers, limiters etc

Why can't DJs just learn to use a mixer properly? It's not hard, you expect any other musical performer to know how to use their instrument/voice without damaging it, why should a DJ be any different?

You spend enough time learning how to beatmatch/scratch/whatever, why not take the time to learn how to use the tools of your trade?

it's not for me, it's for them and the knowledge that i can go for a beer/whatever and know that the person with the records isn't going damage my kit. you say you expect other musical performers should know how to use their voice/instrument whatever- how many do you reckon would damage stuff if they were given the volume controls?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

And the only things ineptly played violins and recorders (and a late submission here: the clarinet) will damage are tempers and nerves (and possibly the instruments themselves). Not so for Mister Deejay Man.

Exactly, by going out DJing you are likely as not going to be in charge of someone elses equipment worth thousands of pounds. You are in a position of trust and responsibility, and it's time more people started to act appropriately.

I'm guessing the OP is a heartfelt plea from someone looking after a PA and seeing it suffer because of the incompetence of the performer on his chosen instrument...

It was a pissed off rant after seeing over one and a half grands worth of damage done to a PA that was barely three weeks old...

 

[rutabowa]

You could say that of the recorder: anyone can get a recorder to make a noise.

no you couldn't say the same. someone without a clue about djing could play a few records at a night and the crowd might well not notice, that is why you get so many clueless djs.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

you say you expect other musical performers should know how to use their voice/instrument whatever- how many do you reckon would damage stuff if they were given the volume controls?

That's not the point - having access to the master gain control is not part of (say) a bass players job. They don't have to know anything about it.

A DJ does.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

someone without a clue about djing could play a few records at a night and the crowd might well not notice, that is why you get so many clueless djs.

They shouldn't be allowed to be there in the first place, that's my point.

 

[danny la rouge]

That's not the point - having access to the master gain control is not part of (say) a bass players job. They don't have to know anything about it.

A DJ does.

Except for Mexican ones.

 

[rutabowa]

i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just saying why it happens: because it is so easy to be able to blag saying your a dj because it is superficially so easy (unlike playing a musical instrument).

 

[rutabowa]

Except for Mexican ones.

LEAVE THE MEXICANS ALONE!!

i

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just saying why it happens: because it is so easy to be able to blag saying your a dj because it is superficially so easy (unlike playing a musical instrument).

Yeah, it just baffles me why so many promoters/rig owners let them get away with it.

 

[rutabowa]

cos they don't have a clue either?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

cos they don't have a clue either?

The depressing, but somewhat inevitable, conclusion.

 

[Boycey]

That's not the point - having access to the master gain control is not part of (say) a bass players job. They don't have to know anything about it.

A DJ does.

IMO having access to it should not mean they should ever touch it in a situation where a proper rig is involved- they should use the gains to balance their channels and leave the volume to the person with access to the crossover/amps.

considering how little effort it takes to "be a dj" (sets of itunes anyone?) it's little wonder most people know sweet fuck all. this issue will just run and run, i'm glad i have control over who gets to play on my kit and that my kit is set up in a way to minimise the power anyone other than me has over the master volume.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

they should use the gains to balance their channels and leave the volume to the person with access to the crossover/amps
.
.
.
i'm glad i have control over who gets to play on my kit and that my kit is set up in a way to minimise the power anyone other than me has over the master volume.

You're missing the main point though - it is the misuse of channel gains that cause the problem.

 

[Boycey]

You're missing the main point though - it is the misuse of channel gains that cause the problem.

if they're brought down by 20dB then they have to be turned up to 11 to even get close to the redline.

internal attenuation = fucking godsend

you really ought to invest in some pro-kit* you know that

*edit: ie nothing that says pioneer on it

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Its not that simple, if a rider asks for a Pioneer mixer, that's what they get.

 

[longdog]

Two DJs walking down the road. One says to the other "Do fancy going to see a film?" The other one says "I dunno. Who's the projectionist?"

Kaboom-Tish!

 

[ska invita]

If youre behind the decks it usually means you're also behind the set and the best you can hear as to whats going on is a monitor. I think The End in London is the only time ive seen a club where this wasnt the case - the DJ booth was in the middle of the room so the DJ could really tell what it was sounding like. Dub sounds rarely have this problem either, for similiar reasons - the DJ doesnt need monitors, just listens to the set.

Part of the reason DJs cant help but crank it is cos from where they're standing they can't hear it! another reason is special brew.

 

[derf]

It was a pissed off rant after seeing over one and a half grands worth of damage done to a PA that was barely three weeks old...

That's why I loved shit DJs. Gains up full and filling my wallet with repair fees.
I'm retired now but please keep total tosspots working so my mates can still earn coin from them.

Two DJs walking down the road. One says to the other "Do fancy going to see a film?" The other one says "I dunno. Who's the projectionist?"

Kaboom-Tish!

Ain't that the truth.

 

[obanite]

A short message to DJ's: I love you all, keep playing the music I love

 

[ska invita]

Two DJs walking down the road. One says to the other "Do fancy going to see a film?" The other one says "I dunno. Who's the projectionist?"
Kaboom-Tish!

Ain't that the truth.

[pedantry time]No its not the truth - if you got to a film screening you are told exactly what the projectionist is going to project - Film X.

if you go to see a DJ you have no idea what tracks they may be playing over the course of their set, and no way of pre-empting how they will sound when mixed together.

Unlike projectionists, who get the film they will screen sent to them by the corporate cinema industry, djs spend hours hunting down new and obscure tunes, as well as often producing their own, in order to create stimulating, entertaining and often transcendental experienceds for punters. non-professional djs fork out a lot of money to buy tunes to play to people - thats a labour of love. projectionnists just turn up to work and get paid - thats a day job.

DJs break a sweat putting the tunes on and mixing them, usually with a pretty shit sound coming out of a knackered monitor - Projectionists jsut hit play then flick through porn mags for the next 90 mins. [pedantry time/]

 

[ska invita]

let's take this outside

If youre behind the decks it usually means you're also behind the set and the best you can hear as to whats going on is a monitor. I think The End in London is the only time ive seen a club where this wasnt the case - the DJ booth was in the middle of the room so the DJ could really tell what it was sounding like. Dub sounds rarely have this problem either, for similiar reasons - the DJ doesnt need monitors, just listens to the set.

Part of the reason DJs cant help but crank it is cos from where they're standing they can't hear it! another reason is special brew.

And in an attempt to increase the life of this thread, and ratchet up the tension between DJs (the talent) and techies (failed musicians), if you had a proper sound set up in the first place the DJ booth area would be sufficiently kitted out so as to sound good to satisfy the DJ. Its because 95% of times it isnt that you end up cranking it to try to get to feel/hear the sound - and for this I blame sound technicians, and i'd like to single out beesonthebarrow particularly for his shortcomings on this. He's already shown his contempt for djs elsewhere, further evidence for his lack of understanding to provide them with the basics they need - a good monitoring set up.

If they had some sad arse guitar 'god' onstage who complained he couldnt quite hear hismelf in his monitors they would fall overthemselves to make them happy - DJs? stick a speaker near the decks and that'll do them.

 

[sam/phallocrat]

and he likes acid techno

 

[damnhippie]

to be fair, most bands don't have a fucking clue about setting their own stage volume either...

i think both DJs and band tend to try and rinse the volume from their end because it's a control/trust thing - the engineer has the power to make them as loud or as quiet as they want.

...so the performer tries to wrestle back a bit of power, usually thinking 'louder = better'.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

And in an attempt to increase the life of this thread, and ratchet up the tension between DJs (the talent) and techies (failed musicians)

Talent my arse. DJing is a fucking piece of piss.

if you had a proper sound set up in the first place the DJ booth area would be sufficiently kitted out

Blame promoters/venues that don't want to spend money, not the techs.

so as to sound good to satisfy the DJ. Its because 95% of times it isnt that you end up cranking it to try to get to feel/hear the sound

It's a record, you should know how it sounds, and any DJ saying they need to "feel" it to play well needs to pull their head out of their arse.

As for not being able to hear it, they're called headphones, try using them.

If they had some sad arse guitar 'god' onstage who complained he couldnt quite hear hismelf in his monitors they would fall overthemselves to make them happy - DJs? stick a speaker near the decks and that'll do them.

A guitarist has to be able to hear themselves to play, a DJ has headphones if it comes to the worst. I've done countless sets over the years with no monitors at all

 

[Wolveryeti]

A square wave is still a square wave, no matter what level you send it to a speaker at.

How do square waves fuck shit up, out of interest?

 

[Fictionist]

Talent my arse. DJing is a fucking piece of piss.

It's a record, you should know how it sounds, and any DJ saying they need to "feel" it to play well needs to pull their head out of their arse.

/QUOTE]

Oh dear. This from the man who claimed that certain pieces of kit sound the same!!

Deaf sausage!

 

[longdog]

No its not the truth - if you got to a film screening you are told exactly what the projectionist is going to project - Film X.

if you go to see a DJ you have no idea what tracks they may be playing over the course of their set, and no way of pre-empting how they will sound when mixed together.

Unlike projectionists, who get the film they will screen sent to them by the corporate cinema industry, djs spend hours hunting down new and obscure tunes, as well as often producing their own, in order to create stimulating, entertaining and often transcendental experienceds for punters. non-professional djs fork out a lot of money to buy tunes to play to people - thats a labour of love. projectionnists just turn up to work and get paid - thats a day job.

DJs break a sweat putting the tunes on and mixing them, usually with a pretty shit sound coming out of a knackered monitor - Projectionists jsut hit play then flick through porn mags for the next 90 mins.

Yeah but it's still just playing records when it comes down to it

The DJ is to music what the projectionist is to acting