A musical morality question

[tangerinedream]

It's not a musical about morality like 'Kant goes pop!' or something... Rather it's about buying music. Being a pointless music snob I willfully decide not to like stuff that other people like and pride myself on having my mp3 player full of stuff that hasn't threatened the hit parade. I've stopped downloading stuff from torrent sites or wherever, not done that for about a year I reckon, and not missed it. I felt guilty that I was threatening the good bits of the music industry, the tiny little record labels run for love and the bands who scrape by who've given me great pleasure beyond anything else in my life apart from the people I love and friends.

I've got more and more into the netlabel thing, podcasting and got back into radio and actually think I listen to more interesting music than ever before. The CDs I buy, I often buy second hand (not always), I love places like vinyl exchange and also buy stuff second hand off the net and my point is, actually am I fooling myself with my 'moral' position - cos if I am buying stuff second hand I'm not actually supporting music in anyway am I? Rather I am supporting the shop owner or person who is selling the music which is very distinct from giving the label money to continue to support the artists or genres I like that may otherwise be overlooked.

I'm not dissing anyone for downloading, just got this thought in my head and am too tired to work it out for myself.

What do you think?

Is this the least intriguing thread ever?

 

[Sweaty Betty]

Spillers- cardiff!!!!!!!!

 

[tangerinedream]

http://www.vinylexchange.co.uk/

 

[Sweaty Betty]

 

[snadge]

The way I look at it is that you might as well download stuff.

I buy quite a lot of music but much smaller label stuff, I won't buy 2cnd hand though, just new.

I download a shit more, delete 90% of it though, the stuff I'm into buying is usually the obscure stuff, not to say I don't like mainstreamy stuff but I won't buy it, my money goes on fucking amazing but no chance of selling en masse.

For example I have a huge collection of Coil stuff, looking online it seems to be worth a fortune to collectors but if I sold it the remaining artists from that group would get nowt, instead I am in the process of MP3ing it and making it available for people to listen to.

I also have an EP from "Godspeed you black emperor" under another alias, I would have to dig it out to find out the name, covering Amazing Grace, it must be 12 years old now and I cannot find this EP online, ultra rare but that alongside the rest of the " hard to get stuff" is going up as MP3's


Now when I retire and go for the pension and realise I've been paying all that money every week all my working life and I can only buy a pint of beer with it, then I'm selling.

 

[tangerinedream]

The way I look at it is that you might as well download stuff.

I buy quite a lot of music but much smaller label stuff, I won't buy 2cnd hand though, just new.

I download a shit more, delete 90% of it though, the stuff I'm into buying is usually the obscure stuff, not to say I don't like mainstreamy stuff but I won't buy it, my money goes on fucking amazing but no chance of selling en masse.

For example I have a huge collection of Coil stuff, looking online it seems to be worth a fortune to collectors but if I sold it the remaining artists from that group would get nowt, instead I am in the process of MP3ing it and making it available for people to listen to.

I also have an EP from "Godspeed you black emperor" under another alias, I would have to dig it out to find out the name, covering Amazing Grace, it must be 12 years old now and I cannot find this EP online, ultra rare but that alongside the rest of the " hard to get stuff" is going up as MP3's


Now when I retire and go for the pension and realise I've been paying all that money every week all my working life and I can only buy a pint of beer with it, then I'm selling.

'amazing grace' by GYBE! is the movement Gathering Storm from the track Storm on 'Lift your Skinny Fists....' What is this EP?. Believe me, I know more than yr average cat about GYBE!. Is it a proper release? What label, what alias? tell me!!! tell me!!!

Anyway, yeah, I'm not looking for a rationale to start downloading again (if i'm honest, I do occaisionaly) - I appreciate what you are saying but I think coil are perhaps a band I would have less problem about as they've had a bloody long career. Do you think it's fair to download a small band's first album the week it comes out?

I dunno, I put myself in their position and think whilst in a moral sense I wouldn't mind as much, in the pragmatic sense, I'd probably be risking a lot being in a band and the 5 dollars or whatever I get actually would be missed and also that if my record company went tits up cos no-one bought my albums then in real terms, if you like some obscure stuff, it's not just going to get signed by the next man. No record company, less touring, less far reaching tours etc... I notice you probably don't do this...

 

[snadge]

Here's a picture. 1999 it was released so not 12 years old

and it's under molasses.

 

[tangerinedream]

Here's a picture. 1999 it was released so not 12 years old

and it's under molasses.

Molasses aren't an alias for GYBE - as far as I know - they are the band of Mike Moya, an ex bassist whom the track 'Moya' from the New Riot for Zero Kanada ep is named and feature two other members of Gybe. I think the album you have pictured is called Toil & Peaceful Life, though I only have the first one. It's basically a Gybe! side-project like A Silver Mt - there are loads of them! Exhaust, Et Sans, Set Fire to Flames, Fly Pan Am, 1 speed bicycle and probably some I forget - they sometimes do sound like gybe and sometimes don't.

I didn't realise they had also done a version of amazing grace.

 

[Orang Utan]

I have to admit I've bought nowt since getting a home computer, but I haven't downloaded much that I hadn't bought already years ago and got rid of since and most of the things I download are DJ mixes of stuff that I wouldn't buy anyway, unless I decided to start DJing myself. I did download all of Bjork's music recently, but then deleted it in a fit of guilt. I doubt I'd buy all of her stuff anyway, so would it be worst to just not listen to her music, or to download and listen to anyway? Either way, she doesn't get paid. I guess I could argue that I'd be more likely to pay money for a ticket to see her live if I'd heard more of her music.

 

[Hi-ASL]

It's not a musical about morality like 'Kant goes pop!' or something... Rather it's about buying music. Being a pointless music snob I willfully decide not to like stuff that other people like and pride myself on having my mp3 player full of stuff that hasn't threatened the hit parade. I've stopped downloading stuff from torrent sites or wherever, not done that for about a year I reckon, and not missed it. I felt guilty that I was threatening the good bits of the music industry, the tiny little record labels run for love and the bands who scrape by who've given me great pleasure beyond anything else in my life apart from the people I love and friends.

I've got more and more into the netlabel thing, podcasting and got back into radio and actually think I listen to more interesting music than ever before. The CDs I buy, I often buy second hand (not always), I love places like vinyl exchange and also buy stuff second hand off the net and my point is, actually am I fooling myself with my 'moral' position - cos if I am buying stuff second hand I'm not actually supporting music in anyway am I? Rather I am supporting the shop owner or person who is selling the music which is very distinct from giving the label money to continue to support the artists or genres I like that may otherwise be overlooked.

I'm not dissing anyone for downloading, just got this thought in my head and am too tired to work it out for myself.

What do you think?

Is this the least intriguing thread ever?

No, it's a point well-made and one that's often overlooked. Even if no-one downloaded another song ever a large number of people would still eschew full-price retail outlets in favour of eBay, Amazon Marketplace, PlayTrade (Play.com's 2nd-hand market), second-hand shops and anywhere else that they're not going to be ludicrously overcharged. I'd be interested to see a breakdown of who's buying their music where these days.

Someone a lot less lazy - sorry, a lot more cleverer - than me should do a poll.

 

[pk]

I spent thousands of pounds on music in my teens and twenties, so feel no guilt whatsoever.

Plus a lot of the music I like now is obscure Belgian electro and industrial stuff and remix bootlegs that cannot be bought online anyway.

 

[kyser_soze]

I'm pretty ambivalent about buying stuff - as and when the ££s start to flow my way again, I'll go back to buying CDs and DVDs, but while I'm skint I'll dl. Thanks to dling I've got a list a mile long of stuff that I want to buy because I think it's worth supporting.

 

[snadge]

Molasses aren't an alias for GYBE - as far as I know - they are the band of Mike Moya, an ex bassist whom the track 'Moya' from the New Riot for Zero Kanada ep is named and feature two other members of Gybe. I think the album you have pictured is called Toil & Peaceful Life, though I only have the first one. It's basically a Gybe! side-project like A Silver Mt - there are loads of them! Exhaust, Et Sans, Set Fire to Flames, Fly Pan Am, 1 speed bicycle and probably some I forget - they sometimes do sound like gybe and sometimes don't.

I didn't realise they had also done a version of amazing grace.

cool mate

I have the above as well


I had a coughing fit over the CD and cover before putting it away

 

[snadge]

I'm pretty ambivalent about buying stuff - as and when the ££s start to flow my way again, I'll go back to buying CDs and DVDs, but while I'm skint I'll dl. Thanks to dling I've got a list a mile long of stuff that I want to buy because I think it's worth supporting.

I agree with this.

 

[chico enrico]

Plus a lot of the music I like now is obscure Belgian electro and industrial stuff and remix bootlegs that cannot be bought online anyway.

that's pretty much what i'd say too. i've only got about a quarter of my record collection in London and the rest in storage back in Scotland. The stuff I do have (three shelving units with six piles of 'overspill') are basically all the stuff I couldn't live without and could never part with. Anything I 'go off' I flog on ebay.

One shelving unit is everything from power electronics to avant garde classical to punk to weird shit. The others are predominantly chicago house, acid, detroit techno, new beat, electro, hip-hop, disco, salsoul etc. a very small percentage of which could be found online anyway which is why so many of them are worth a packet.

Also , once you get the vinyl bug it's the hardest monkey to knock off your back.

 

[chico enrico]

BASTARD when you have to move flat though

MP3s become a very attractive medium when you're lugging the 20th box of 12"s up four flights of stairs.

 

[MysteryGuest]

I've got one of the promo vinyl copies of 'Astral Disaster' by Coil. Was given it by one of the guys who was working in the studio where they recorded it. Didn't realise until I was rummaging around on Discogs last night that it might be a bit valuable, like. It's got the original versions of the music from the LP they released in an edition of 99 copies. (So for example it has 'The Mothership and the Fatherland' instead of 'MU-UR'.)


Erm... that's not particularly on topic is it? Ah well. I had to post it somewhere. I suppose it's not totally off topic, actually, as it's worth pointing out that you don't get that sort of thing with downloads.


As for downloads I can't be arsed. I actually don't find the majority of music that interesting anyway (which has taken me years to stop having issues with). (But which I'm happy about now.) I don't like MP3 sound and I enjoy the commodity fetishist aspect of having a totem associated with music that I am into. It's nice when the artwork and packaging's good too.


e2a:

Yeah, moving house is a blithering nuisance with vinyl. Very character building, though. I've got around 1,700 tunes now, having sold 700 when I was in Brighton a few years ago. Thank fuck I sold those ones, too. The plan is to get rid of another 300-400 that won't be missed, a lot of which I probably don't know I have. But I'll always be buying bits of vinyl here and there, as long as I'm able, I reckon.

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't like MP3 sound

 

[Nanker Phelge]

I've got thousands of CDs, a couple of thousand albums, tons of DVDs and no more room in my flat for anymore.

I simply can't keep buying them, so downloads have become my route to hearing new stuff, or expanding certain areas of my collection.

If I had a huge place, with endless amounts of cash I'd be importing stuff from all over, and buying up everything I can.

Recently I put a load of vinyl in the recycling because I vowed I would never sell it, while at the same time I knew I couldn't keep it - I mean, how long can a man keep a Lena Lovitch LP with only one good song on it?

There's a lot of music out there, and I'm finding it easier to fill a hard-drive than fill my front room with more cheap plastic.