9 Ways Privileged People Can Reduce the Negative Impact of Gentrification

[editor]

If they, you, me, whomever, can afford 2 pints in the Railway, Albert, Trinity etc they can afford a nobby £9 cocktail. It's not only about the money.

I don't think you understand the social function of pubs/drinking for people on a budget. Trying to make one small cocktail last an entire evening isn't most people's idea of a night out.

PS You can get at least 2.5 pints in the Albert for £9 and bag of crisps, with no service change automatically added to the bill. Which is nice. Or they can go to the Beehive and get even more VFM, if you're going to insist on bringing up pubs.

 

[299 old timer]

I don't think you understand the social function of pubs/drinking for people on a budget. Trying to make one small cocktail last an entire evening isn't most people's idea of a night out.

PS You can get at least 2.5 pints in the Albert for £9 and bag of crisps, with no service change automatically added to the bill. Which is nice. Or they can go to the Beehive and get even more VFM, if you're going to insist on bringing up pubs.

Looks like you've missed the gist of my post by a fair way. But given your obsession with the "Village" that hardly comes as a surprise.

 

[Pickman's model]

If they, you, me, whomever, can afford 2 pints in the Railway, Albert, Trinity etc they can afford a nobby £9 cocktail. It's not only about the money.

it's about culture too. and company. and value for money.

 

[299 old timer]

it's about culture too. and company. and value for money.

Precisely!

 

[Pickman's model]

Precisely!

so why would an habitue of the beehive want a cocktail, which would deliver less alcohol per pound in worse company?

 

[299 old timer]

so why would an habitue of the beehive want a cocktail, which would deliver less alcohol per pound in worse company?

My point was that if one really wanted to go and pay £9 (even if just to see what it is all about) then one could. A 5 pinter will set you back £20...
To be honest even if the cocktails were 3 quid it still wouldn't be reason to check it out, given your point about the company etc. But this is quite normal, folk will gravitate to places that suit them best.

 

[editor]

Looks like you've missed the gist of my post by a fair way. But given your obsession with the "Village" that hardly comes as a surprise.

What's "The Village" got to do with this? Or the Railway/Trinity/Albert?

 

[editor]

My point was that if one really wanted to go and pay £9 (even if just to see what it is all about) then one could. A 5 pinter will set you back £20...

Yes, They could go for one single drink in the company of people who can afford a lot more than them and then go home. Not my idea of a great Saturday night out if I'm on a budget, mind. And that's assuming they get past the bouncer.

Kaff does cocktails, btw. I go there.

 

[299 old timer]

Yes, They could go for one single drink in the company of people who can afford a lot more than them and then go home. Not my idea of a great Saturday night out if I'm on a budget, mind. And that's assuming they get past the bouncer.

Kaff does cocktails, btw. I go there.

Therefore there are places that locals can go to, going back to your earlier statement:

I'm going to mail this to owner of the cocktail bar opposite me who actually believes his £9 wacky drinks are totally affordable to the residents of the council block opposite.

Make up your mind.

Look at it this way, be grateful that the nobs are willing to pay through the nose for stuff that makes them feel exclusive. It keeps them away from all the other places!
You know the story of Concorde and ticketing prices I presume?

 

[editor]

Therefore there are places that locals can go to, going back to your earlier statement:

I'm going to mail this to owner of the cocktail bar opposite me who actually believes his £9 wacky drinks are totally affordable to the residents of the council block opposite.

Make up your mind.

That's because he was insisting that his cocktail bar was truly affordable to the council estate community opposite. That article included ways that he could turn his fantasy into reality. That is why I think he should read it and either make those changes or appreciate that his bar is indeed exclusive.

I've no interest in talking about Concorde.

 

[299 old timer]

I've no interest in talking about Concorde.

Pity. Because it became a success when they put the prices up! That old devil "exclusive" again.

 

[co-op]

There were stupidly-priced cocktails in Brixton in the 1980s, remember the Brixtonian? Pretty busy place.

 

[editor]

There were stupidly-priced cocktails in Brixton in the 1980s, remember the Brixtonian? Pretty busy place.

Its prices were nowhere near as exclusive as this new cocktail bar and they had loads of affordable drinks on the menu too.

 

[299 old timer]

Its prices were nowhere near as exclusive as this new cocktail bar and they had loads of affordable drinks on the menu too.

Do you have the price list available? Be interesting to see the effect of the rate of inflation on the price of cocktails.

 

[editor]

Do you have the price list available? Be interesting to see the effect of the rate of inflation on the price of cocktails.

I remember I could afford to go there occasionally, as could most of my friends from the Albert so that tells me that it wasn't running at £10/pint levels. It did change in to a posher and rather expensive restaurant afterwards so I stopped going.

 

[Winot]

One of the things I liked about the article was that it *didn't* just attack gentrifiers (customers and business owners) but rather sought to explain the effect their presence had within the context of broader changes even if there was nothing inherently wrong with the new businesses. The article didn't say "close down your cocktail bars".

It would be nice if the discussion here could avoid getting sidetracked into the same discussion as we have had many times before. I for one would be more interested in talking about practical things we (I) could do in Brixton to reduce the negative impact of gentrification.

 

[Winot]

Incidentally, on typing that on my Swype keyboard on my iPhone 6 I had to add "Brixton" and "gentrifers" to the dictionary. My life is tough too, you know.

 

[co-op]

I remember I could afford to go there occasionally, as could most of my friends from the Albert so that tells me that it wasn't running at £10/pint levels. It did change in to a posher and rather expensive restaurant afterwards so I stopped going.

It's hard to make a comparison between then and now I think, all drinking out drinks have got a lot more expensive compared to wages I think, but the Brixtonian was always pricey. The way I remember it people liked having a posh gaff in Brixton because it was so unusual and it seemed to be a statement of hope or aspiration and all that crap, I mean in the 1980s if you didn't want to sit in a pretty scruffy pub for the night, you had to go out of Brixton. Also it was a black-owned and run business I think so that seemed a Good Thing when there were so few, and those mainly pretty down-market. Remember Buppies? (Black Yuppies).

So I'm not really comparing it to the situation you describe, just saying it was fecking expensive.

 

[editor]

One of the things I liked about the article was that it *didn't* just attack gentrifiers (customers and business owners) but rather sought to explain the effect their presence had within the context of broader changes even if there was nothing inherently wrong with the new businesses.

I think it's a very balanced piece. That's why I posted it, but already the same old off-topic guff about 'obsessions' with the are Village being brought up.

The article didn't say "close down your cocktail bars".

No one is saying that here either, but if new businesses are going to claim that they're part of the community or that they are truly accessible to all or that they're somehow continuing a local tradition, it's only right that those claims are examined. I'm not convinced by Wahaca's highly selective approach in this regard, for example, neither do I believe the Shrub has taken the heritage of My Father's Place "to a new level."

It's not even that hard for new businesses to try to connect to locals. In the case of the Shrub, imagine if they'd approached the resident's association and invited them over a drink? Or offered discount for locals? Or held a 'learn how to make cocktails' fun day? I'm sure others will have better ideas but as it is they're act like classic gentrifiers with little regard to the long standing community right outside their doorstep.

 

[co-op]

It's not even that hard for new businesses to try to connect to locals. In the case of the Shrub, imagine if they'd approached the resident's association and invited them over a drink? Or offered discount for locals? Or held a 'learn how to make cocktails' fun day? I'm sure others will have better ideas but as it is they're act like classic gentrifiers with little regard to the long standing community right outside their doorstep.

I don't think a lot of new drinks places get the idea of a culture of a place, they just want to pack places out with pissed up trendies with a load of money. They probably have to do this because of the rents that are being charged on businesses now, so it's the fucking landlords as usual, who are responsible.

When I worked in a pub in Stockwell we used to encourage certain people to stick around a bit, do it with a free drink every now and then, make a few efforts for them (the infamous serving-them-first thing which pisses off other punters so much) because they added to the vibe of the place. Mostly I'm talking about older guys who sat at the bar. Apart from anything else they meant there were always some coolhead kind of people there.

Other people we'd try and discourage from even walking in the door because they just had bad vibes.

Trendy bars basically socially cleanse with their prices though - it's a way of keeping the locals out.

 

[editor]

Trendy bars basically socially cleanse with their prices though - it's a way of keeping the locals out.

Yep, but it can be done if the owners are bothered enough. Kaff manages to find a good balance. The cocktails are ridiculously cheap on some nights, the cakes are made by a local lady, the food and snacks are very good value and the owner gets involved in lots of local projects.

 

[moon]

Has anyone else noticed the correlation between gentrification and the tearing up of front gardens to create car ports for 2-3 expensive cars...
At least 4 gardens have been tarmacked over in my street over the past year... it's shocking.. think of the birds...

 

[co-op]

Yep, but it can be done if the owners are bothered enough. Kaff manages to find a good balance. The cocktails are ridiculously cheap on some nights, the cakes are made by a local lady, the food and snacks are very good value and the owner gets involved in lots of local projects.

Totally agree, I meant *some* trendy bars.

I haven't been to Kaff since I don't live in South London anymore .But it sounds like they're doing something a bit more conscious.

The point I wasn't really managing to make was that the Landlord where I worked didn't want to freeze people out by pricing high (it might not have worked as a business model where we were anyway), but a lot of bars just assume that high prices = better behaved punters, when actually my experience in South London was those places just ended up with a lot of shouty coked up tossers, or they were completely dead. So we used to try and moderate who came in and out by favouring some not others and using the banhammer pretty freely and that meant we could have some pretty cheap drinks. But that was in the 1990s.

 

[leanderman]

It's hard to make a comparison between then and now I think, all drinking out drinks have got a lot more expensive compared to wages I think, but the Brixtonian was always pricey.

No doubt and, anyway, cocktails are a stupidly expensive way to get drunk.

The Kaff ones are cheaper than Shrub but some of this may be explained by significantly lower alcohol content.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not much for anyone to actually do though. Understand and think about- but nothing that stops gentrification pushing out the poorer and usually ethnic minority communities.

Possibly because it is impossible to stop "gentrification". Money speaks loudest. Local voices get overwhelmed by the sound of the pound.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't know how it works in San Francisco, but the last point "VOTE" suggested that voting might change things. In Lambeth the ruling party have become the party of gentrification, and the the only party disputing this strategy ended up with one councillor (out of 63). So I don't think voting on this issue has much effect in Brixton or Lambeth.

IIRC most counties and municipalities in California have a recall clause in their electoral system, so if your local politicians are fucking up, you can kick them out. If we had such a power here, the Town Hall would see a constant churn of councillors!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Except that the nu-businesses are now part of the community.
Out of interest, do you think the community you refer to would frequent these joints if the prices were more affordable? My experience tells me that snobbery and reverse snobbery work on both sides.

Is it "reverse snobbery" when you're excluded by cost?

 

[ViolentPanda]

If they, you, me, whomever, can afford 2 pints in the Railway, Albert, Trinity etc they can afford a nobby £9 cocktail. It's not only about the money.

It's very much about the money, which isn't to say it isn't also about feeling uncomfortable (and in some cases being made to feel uncomfortable) on your own "turf".

 

[ViolentPanda]

ernestolynch a distant memory

If only that were really the case.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Pity. Because it became a success when they put the prices up! That old devil "exclusive" again.

You've just shat all over your own argument. The sort of exclusivity you're talking about...it excludes the majority in an area like this. Economically and socially, which is a great way to be made to feel about the area you've grown up in/spent most of your life in.