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'9/11 Truth Movement' and Academia

Dillinger4

Es gibt Zeit
jbob said:
I think you're bing a bit unfair to Fela here. I've been posting here as long, if not longer, than him, and he's never claimed to have done an undergraduate degree. Postgrad, yes. I'll speculate that its in the field of Linguistics/TESOL.

He's always been open about how he started out in his career overseas - there's several threads in Travel about it. He teaches in a TEFL based capacity in Thailand and has given a great deal of useful advice to people over the years considering that career path. I don't see why he's under any obligation to reveal his place of work; in fact, it would be a bit stupid, no?

Disagree with his opinions by all mean (I know I do), but why the investigation into his professional life? The ganging up on the board is getting really out of hand.
The first post of this thread is about research methods. Fela is making claims about research method, and he claims he has qualifications to know all about this, whilst displaying no idea of how such is research is actually carried out.

It is entirely relevant.
 

Dillinger4

Es gibt Zeit
jonH said:
What are your ideas about 9/11? just out of interest?


Again........
I am not the one making random claims.

You make a claim, you justify it. Or else it will just seem like you dreamed it up.
 

jonH

New Member
Dillinger4 said:
I am not the one making random claims.

You make a claim, you justify it. Or else it will just seem like you dreamed it up.
You claim to be academically involved in the subject, what do you know? All I say is we don't know the truth, anyone could have hatched the plot. There is no proof Bin Laden thought up the idea.

What do you think?
 

Dillinger4

Es gibt Zeit
jonH said:
You claim to be academically involved in the subject, what do you know? All I say is we don't know the truth, anyone could have hatched the plot. There is no proof Bin Laden thought up the idea.

What do you think?
Look, this is exactly my point. How can you carry out research on something you patently cannot know?

To be honest, I don't even care about 9/11 theories. To me they are all bullshit.
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
jonH said:
You claim to be academically involved in the subject, what do you know? All I say is we don't know the truth, anyone could have hatched the plot. There is no proof Bin Laden thought up the idea.
Haven;t you even read this thread... :rolleyes:
 

Dillinger4

Es gibt Zeit
You cannot approach this subject, scientifically speaking, because you can't start from a point that somebody has plucked out the air and has tried to prove afterwards.
 

jbob

Well-Known Member
jæd said:
Because he made a big point of it. That, and the fact he doesn't appear to understand what basis dissertations are marked on. (Even though he claims to have written one for his degree course and apparently gives lots of advice on academic matters)
I've read the thread. I know what he said about research and it was laughable in the context of how many academic courses are assessed.

However, the contents of his Masters course just may have been different to what you know in your field and I do in mine; as his field of expertise is based upon teaching TEFL it just may require a different basis for assessment.

I still don't see whay he should name where he works or where he studied. It's up to him to defend his argument, but this information is irrelavant.

I just find these threads where a circle forms to kick someone in, (where your name often seems to crop up, incidentally), to be rather unpleasant.
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
jbob said:
However, the contents of his Masters course just may have been different to what you know in your field and I do in mine; as his field of expertise is based upon teaching TEFL it just may require a different basis for assessment.
Fela claimed to have written a dissertation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dissertations have a hypothesis which is then either supported, or not-supported, based on the evidence collected by the student. Fela is saying that, based on his experiences of writing a dissertation and from giving academic advice he thinks that it would be perfectly possible to present evidence in a dissertation that would show how the 9/11 attacks where not by AQ, but by a conspiracy...

jbob said:
I still don't see whay he should name where he works or where he studied. It's up to him to defend his argument, but this information is irrelavant.
Because we want to know Fela experience of writing dissertations, and how he gives academic advice. The majority of people think that its unlikely one could provide conclusive evidence of a conspiracy in 10,000 words and with evidence obtained from You-Tube. So we're all crying "BULLSHIT" on Felas qualifications...

jbob said:
I just find these threads where a circle forms to kick someone in, (where your name often seems to crop up, incidentally), to be rather unpleasant.
Thats because if some makes a point of something I like to see the basis on what they stating that point.
 

fela fan

sunny thailand
jæd said:
Fela is saying that, based on his experiences of writing a dissertation and from giving academic advice he thinks that it would be perfectly possible to present evidence in a dissertation that would show how the 9/11 attacks where not by AQ, but by a conspiracy...



Because we want to know Fela experience of writing dissertations, and how he gives academic advice. The majority of people think that its unlikely one could provide conclusive evidence of a conspiracy in 10,000 words and with evidence obtained from You-Tube. So we're all crying "BULLSHIT" on Felas qualifications...



Thats because if some makes a point of something I like to see the basis on what they stating that point.
a) Fela is not saying anything of the sort. Jaed is simply barking up the wrong tree with such nonsense. My original posts to dillinger at the start of the thread were all based on his own reactions to his situation, and nothing to do with 911 itself. So cut out the bullshit about me linking the two together.

b) You're welcome to cry bullshit on my qualifications. Keep right at it if it suits.

c) I never made a point or issue of it. I said what i said in order to honestly reply to a kyser post. Then a gaggle of geese jumped down my throat barking their demands.

You are too quick to judge other people. It's your loss, not mine.
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
fela fan said:
c) I never made a point or issue of it. I said what i said in order to honestly reply to a kyser post. Then a gaggle of geese jumped down my throat barking their demands.
If you had answered the question "Which uni course, and where...?" with a straight, no-wriggling answer no-one would have made anything of it. Its your constant evasions that make you sound like you're telling us porkies...

fela fan said:
You are too quick to judge other people. It's your loss, not mine.
You're a wriggler...!
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
jbob said:
However, the contents of his Masters course just may have been different to what you know in your field and I do in mine; as his field of expertise is based upon teaching TEFL it just may require a different basis for assessment.
Based of what I know of Fela I'd say he hasn't done a masters, and probably didn't a degree course either. He probably bullshitted his way into a TEFL, and is scared of being found out. Which is why he puffs himself up so much... :rolleyes:
 

jbob

Well-Known Member
jæd said:
Based of what I know of Fela I'd say he hasn't done a masters, and probably didn't a degree course either. He probably bullshitted his way into a TEFL, and is scared of being found out. Which is why he puffs himself up so much... :rolleyes:
I'm sure Fela can answer this one for you, but all I'll say is he's never to my knowledge claimed to have studied at undergraduate level, whereas he has at Masters. He freely admits he bluffed his way into TEFL (many, many people do), but later he got some qualifications. As I said before, there's a stack of threads about this (mainly in Travel, some in the Work forum).

I'm not out to defending the man or his opinions, he's more than capable of doing that. I'm correcting your incorrect assetions about his qualifications based upon the evidence I have - what he's written on here.
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
jbob said:
I'm sure Fela can answer this one for you, but all I'll say is he's never to my knowledge claimed to have studied at undergraduate level, whereas he has at Masters.
He's claimed:

Fela said:
The degree was in psychological manipulation of closed minds, majoring in marketing with a special project on advertising...The degree was in psychological manipulation of closed minds, majoring in marketing with a special project on advertising...
(# 284 of this thread)

I'm not sure what that means and seems to be typical Fela wibbling

jbob said:
I'm not out to defending the man or his opinions, he's more than capable of doing that. I'm correcting your incorrect assetions about his qualifications based upon the evidence I have - what he's written on here.
If he stated his qualifications clearly then no-one would post up "incorrect assertions" would they...?
 

jbob

Well-Known Member
jæd said:
Fela claimed to have written a dissertation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dissertations have a hypothesis which is then either supported, or not-supported, based on the evidence collected by the student. Fela is saying that, based on his experiences of writing a dissertation and from giving academic advice he thinks that it would be perfectly possible to present evidence in a dissertation that would show how the 9/11 attacks where not by AQ, but by a conspiracy...
Do you know the basis under which all postgraduate qualifications are assessed? I think you'll find there are variations dependent upon the discipline. Is, for example, the assessment criteria for the PGCE the same as MSc Mechanical Engineering? Are the academic demands and required skills the same for both sets of candidates?

As for the second bit about 9/11, all I will say is that it would depend upon the hypothesis. Apart from that, I've got no desire to get involved with that discussion.
 

tarannau

Mongolian eyed
Christ can we give it a rest. I don't care which qualiification's Fela's really got, although they're clearly unlikely to be from the most prestigious or rigorous of institutions.

What's more grating is his tendency to inflate his achievements (Eg talking about he's an expert in linguistics when essentially being a TEFL type) and self-aggrandising bibble like the 'psychological manipulation' bumph above. Rarely can someone fit so much fitful,unnecessary bollocks into one line, and I say that as someone with a suitably bullshitworthy BA/MA in English and a Masters in Business

Sadly this nonsense is reflected in his posts, where he ends up trying to deflect any criticism of his defective logic with grand sounding, but utterly facetious nonsense about 'filters' and 'reflections' that would shame a fifth form 'Psychology for dummies' class.

I wish, just wish, there'd sometimes be more substance to his posts than 'this is what I think' followed by putting his fingers in his ears.
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
jbob said:
Do you know the basis under which all postgraduate qualifications are assessed? I think you'll find there are variations dependent upon the discipline. Is, for example, the assessment criteria for the PGCE the same as MSc Mechanical Engineering? Are the academic demands and required skills the same for both sets of candidates?
AFAIK, a PGCE isn't at the same level as a Masters... (either Msc or MA)
 

A Dashing Blade

Takes horses to water but can't make donkeys drink
fela fan said:
But i'm not denying for one moment that huge numbers saw the planes go into the buildings. I'm having a genuine and relevant reposte to the editor's words where he assumed spokesmanship for all these thousands.
NO. Ed used the phrase "tens of thousands".

YOU queried that ("Ahh, it's the editor speaking personally for all those thousands of people who have actually told him that they saw a plane. After all, how on earth could editor know that thousands or tens of thousands of people saw a plane? Perhaps he read all their quotes in the newspaper...")

I asked YOU, straight question, how many YOU think saw it, to the nearest order of magnitude. Simple question, what's you're problem giving a straight answer?
 

fela fan

sunny thailand
A Dashing Blade said:
I asked YOU, straight question, how many YOU think saw it, to the nearest order of magnitude. Simple question, what's you're problem giving a straight answer?
I can't remember you popping up here on this thread.

Now that you're here, my answer is that i have no clue whatsoever what people saw, and how many saw.

I trust this answer is straight enough for you, do get back to me if it's not good enough.
 

fela fan

sunny thailand
jæd said:
He's claimed:



(# 284 of this thread)

I'm not sure what that means and seems to be typical Fela wibbling



If he stated his qualifications clearly then no-one would post up "incorrect assertions" would they...?
You have failed to see from the description of my undergraduate 'degree' that it was no such thing. But i do find closed minds an interesting phenomenon especially when i read somebody levelling this charge at others...

I never went to uni when i was 18, couldn't get out of education quick enough.

And that's yer lot. You have a right to ask me what my qualifications are, and i have a right to not tell you. So leave it at that.

Meanwhile you need to brush on your reading skills. You would clearly have seen that i was not claiming a first degree, rather taking the piss out of uesless readers like yourself who cannot extract original intended meanings from texts due to your closed mind. Soon as you see the word fela fan, your subjectivity kicks in. I find it hilarious and psychologically interesting that you should be so obsessed about somebody you know next to fuck all about, and how that blocks you from even attempting to find out what is being communicated.
 

fela fan

sunny thailand
jæd said:
Based of what I know of Fela I'd say he hasn't done a masters, and probably didn't a degree course either. He probably bullshitted his way into a TEFL, and is scared of being found out. Which is why he puffs himself up so much... :rolleyes:
Are you actually aware of how little you know about me? Because the answer is just about zero, which of course you regularly display in your inane and inaccurate witterings about me, rather than my posts.

Here: i definintely never did a first degree, nor did i ever claim to have done one here on urban. There you are, now you know something about me.

As for my masters, if you say i did one, i did, if you say i didn't do one, then i didn't. Whatever you want to believe can be your own personal truth jaed. You will never find out for sure if i've done one, and so you best just leave it.

Do you not even understand basic psychology? You tell me i'm a liar that i don't have a master's. Are you then seriously thinking that by me posting up my degree and institution that that will be enough evidence for you to now say no, fela fan was not lying, now i can plainly see that he is telling the truth?

No, i think we both know the real reasons in your feeble attempts to press-gang me into an answer.

Well dream on lad, dream on.
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
fela fan said:
Are you actually aware of how little you know about me? Because the answer is just about zero, which of course you regularly display in your inane and inaccurate witterings about me, rather than my posts.

Here: i definintely never did a first degree, nor did i ever claim to have done one here on urban. There you are, now you know something about me.

As for my masters, if you say i did one, i did, if you say i didn't do one, then i didn't. Whatever you want to believe can be your own personal truth jaed. You will never find out for sure if i've done one, and so you best just leave it.

Do you not even understand basic psychology? You tell me i'm a liar that i don't have a master's. Are you then seriously thinking that by me posting up my degree and institution that that will be enough evidence for you to now say no, fela fan was not lying, now i can plainly see that he is telling the truth?

No, i think we both know the real reasons in your feeble attempts to press-gang me into an answer.

Well dream on lad, dream on.
Heh...! You could just tell us the name of the Masters. Would save you time instead of waffling on with your usual wriggling...!
 

jæd

Corporate Hooker
fela fan said:
You have failed to see from the description of my undergraduate 'degree' that it was no such thing. But i do find closed minds an interesting phenomenon especially when i read somebody levelling this charge at others...
I think several people (me included) rightly called bullshit over what you posted. You fool no-one with your constant wriggling...!
 

Yossarian

free shrugs
I don't agree with many of fela fan's opinions on 9/11 - but I've certainly never had any cause to believe he's been anything but honest about himself and his qualifications and I don't see the point of people hounding him for personal information.
 

jonH

New Member
Dillinger4 said:
You cannot approach this subject, scientifically speaking, because you can't start from a point that somebody has plucked out the air and has tried to prove afterwards.
No one knows where the idea of 9/11 came from, you say we shouldn't have any ideas or opinions on things which aren't scientifically proven, or if we do , don't voice them here. We should just accept the War on Terror, the tightened security and all that xenophobic homeland stuff and never even think it might have been a conspiracy. No Academic has ever proved it, so it wasn't.

and bad luck all the Afghan and Iraqi families which have been destroyed, we don't really care that your lives were ruined for as yet, an unknown reason.
 
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