'9/11 Truth Movement' and Academia

Discussion in 'Compendium Of Kerrrr-azy Conspiracies' started by Dillinger4, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    Where did I make a claim to certainty?

    You have simply labeled me as having views opposed to your own.
     
  2. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    Well, I think he did. What do you think the debate is about?
     
  3. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    Well, if you're not certain what happened, - why exactly do you object to other people speculating, and how do you think it's possible to rule various possible sources and theories out, without having looked at the sources. ?

    And why have you said that I'm insane, when I also have not claimed certainty?. ?
     
  4. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    This thread is not based on ignorance and misinformation.

    It is that you cannot use youtube videos as sources of evidence for anything without treating them rigorously, because they are anecdotal, counterfactual and un-falisifiable.

    What this thread displays is that a lot of people are willing to believe stories told by people, evidence that contradicts itself and can never be proved one way or the other.

    You may as well say you believe in fairies. The same evidence exists. There are people who will tell you they have seen them. You will never be able to prove it one way or the other.
     
  5. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    But the news reports are beyond question?
     
  6. Bob_the_lost

    Bob_the_lost Elsewhere

    The reason the images look "odd" is that they are on youtube.

    You see, to store movies as a serries of snapshots without any losses would require about 300GB for a standard definition DVD movie. You've no idea how much for a HD movie. Even a tiny little clip like that one would take tens to hundreds of megabytes to store uncompressed.

    There are tricks you can play to stop you losing any information while compressing movies, but they're not enough to get the films down to manageable sizes, as such there are lossy formats, like mp3s for video, that capture the important bits of the images. The edges, the things moving fast, the things that are different from the last frame.

    Every time you switch an image from one format to another it will reprocess the image, attempting to save all the important bits and throw away the less important. This results in something called artifacting, where the algorythms generate something from random noise, because it can't tell the diferrence.

    In this case we've got a fast moving object, out of focus, captured using (generally) low end hardware. That won't generate a great source image in the first place. Then it's been stored as a movie, a good deal of data lost and the image manipulated at least once. Then it's probably been broadcast via tv and captured, again manipulated at least once, or just uploaded to youtube, which uses a really low fidelity codec. You expect too much from it.

    There's one reason you shouldn't use youtube, it degrades the quality of image too far.
     
  7. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    Yes, there is one reason. Another is that anybody can doctor any of the images they post, and because it is such low quality, you could never reasonably tell, one way or another.
     
  8. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    Who said anything about news reports?

    Are you just lumping me with people who disagree with you again?

    I am not making any claims. You are.
     
  9. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    Well, maybe you're right, but, in fact, as an experiment, I watched a non 911 video of a plane crashing into a wall, and it looked a whole lot more realistic than that second plane impact on the link you posted.
     
  10. jonH

    jonH New Member

    But fairies aren't responsible for the carnage the US is inflicting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Some people are angry about what has happened and will try to find the truth. Questions like, who thought up 9/11? deserve to be answered. The governments control most media, Youtube might not be to your taste but it certainly plays a role in spreading peoples ideas, even if they're not always orthodox
     
  11. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    You are a real scientist now. You know what plane impacts and everything look like.

    Because you watched a video. Anybody can watch a video and make any claim in anyway they like. It doesn't make your opinion correct.
     
  12. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    Youtube is owned by Google, a major corporation.

    Why are they not in on this?

    Those videos could easily be planted by Google operatives, as a black ops to confuse people. How do you know?
     
  13. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    Er, you did, -- see below. (post 73)

     
  14. jonH

    jonH New Member

    I don't know, but logic tells me it was in some Americans interests for 9/11 to happen and one of these people might easily have hatched the whole plot, they would obviously have had to have been very powerful. I don't buy the War on Terror. No apologies :)
     
  15. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    Your logic tells you that?
     
  16. jonH

    jonH New Member

    what do you think happened?
     
  17. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    One of the things I find quite funny from watching a few of the films, is it turns out that some of the people who don't believe the official version, totally disapprove of a bunch of other people who don't believe the official version, but have a different theory from them, and often end up thinking that they're working for the government, to muddy the waters, posting up fake conspiracy theories, fake doctored videos etc.

    I don't know if this makes things less confusing or more confusing..
     
  18. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    I would defiantly place it above videos posted anonymously on the internet. Which almost all come from news agencies in the first place.

    I would take a selection from all news agencies, yes.
     
  19. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    It makes it more confusing, for you.
     
  20. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    I am not the one making claims to 'what happened'.
     
  21. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    Of course not.
     
  22. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    According to both your logics, neither of you can actually believe ANYTHING. So why do both of you make claims to claim one explanation over another?
     
  23. jonH

    jonH New Member

    or didn't happen??
     
  24. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    So 9/11 didn't happen now?

    :confused:
     
  25. jonH

    jonH New Member

    I claim the US government is sick and does not represent the needs of our times, I don't believe a word they say. Remember the lies of the past.
     
  26. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    Its ok Demosthenes. You have already painted me as somebody who disagrees with you may as well put me on ignore.

    Is it wrong to question your sources? Is that so awful? You clearly at not treating them very critically yourself, and it sounds like you don't want anybody else to do this either.
     
  27. Dillinger4

    Dillinger4 Es gibt Zeit

    :confused:

    Yeh? I don't particularly disagree.

    But still.

    :confused:
     
  28. Bob_the_lost

    Bob_the_lost Elsewhere

    Which one? The high speed test where they strapped it to a rocket sled and used a specialist high speed, top of the line camera capable of millisecond or faster capture speeds to capture it? (link?)

    It's a very cool video, i had a still from it as my desktop for a long while. That camera has next to nothing in common with the cheap crap that most people carry and only a tiny bit more in common with a portable news camera.
     
  29. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes neither achieved much. R.I.P.

    No I do believe quite a few things..

    I believe a number of different explanations may be true, but that only one of them is, and that I don't know which, - and also I believe that the question of how the towers came to fall down is a different question from who planned the attack, and finding out the answer to the one doesn't necessarily mean finding out the answer to the other. But also that if the news reports were faked then that seems to suggest that the US government was involved.

    And I believe that there are videos on youtube that are relevant to the first question, - and that there are a number of them, that show towers exploding but no plane impacts, and that they look more real to me than the same shots with plane impacts, and that this judgement of mine may be wrong, - and that maybe the impression of the plane sinking into the tower like a knife into butter and the fourway explosion is actually exactly how it should look.

    And I think that people who haven't watched quite a few non news agency videos aren't in a position to comment on the value of the non-news sources.
     
  30. jonH

    jonH New Member

    No you claim you have no opinion as to what happened, I'm asking you if you have an opinion about what didn't happen?
    Did the US government or its agencies have anything to do with the planning of 9/11 ?
     

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