5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

Discussion in 'London and the South East' started by Utopia, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. pooka

    pooka Can't Re Member

    Agree entirely. After cycling in London for 25 years, I've recently discovered cyclestreets (http://www.cyclestreets.net/). It has transformed my cycling experience. The advantages of side streets are - (1) Lower speeds, either by humps or just the topography, so if you do have a collision, the damage will be less, (2) fewer, if any, HGVs or buses (3) As Han says, you can cycle down the middle of the road, traffic permitting. You can see anyone coming ahead and (if you have a mirror) behind you, in good time. (4) Less busy streets means you have the chance to take in the sights and sound of what's around you (4) you get to know all sorts of hidden bits of London.

    You do have to take the trouble to learn a new route - a list of right and left turns clipped to your handlebars suffices. Cyclestreets gives you three optional routes - fast, quiet and intermediate - but there's generally only minutes difference between them on most London journies. The intermediate and quite routes are generally good at avoiding unnecessary hills too. You do need to be more wary of opening doors, pedestrians and vehicles coming out of junctions on side-streets, especially at night, but it's a small price to pay.

    Well worth a look
     
    Maggot and han like this.
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    but cycling on the pavement was only one issue raised by Sue. what about people crossing the road, like Streathamite, who are knocked down and seriously injured by cyclists going through red lights? you utterly ignore that point. secondly, while i'll take your figures on deaths, i wonder whether you've figures for injuries caused by cyclists.
     
  3. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    That's an excellent site :)
    It's suggested an entirely different route for my commute, all through the back streets of Stockwell and Kennington, which I may well give a go.
     
    han likes this.
  4. han

    han brixton hill hobbit

    Yes, the Bike Hub app uses the Cyclestreets engine, as does the journey planner on www.lcc.org.uk.

    It's a great way to discover interesting bits of London you never knew existed - I use it for every journey, wherever I'm going, now. It makes every journey a pleasure.

    I haven't cycled down Brixton Hill in about a year (I always use parallel roads such as Lyham Rd and Leander Rd) . Anyway, I went down it this morning at rushhour in order to get to Brixton Cycles before they open. It reminded me why I never cycle down that road in rushhour. Total gridlock, soo slow. Never again.

    Sidestreets are way quicker for cyclists in rushhour.
     
  5. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    Ditto. It's even worse going uphill.
     
  6. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

    The roundabout on the Lambeth side of Waterloo Bridge was packed full of coppers this morning, making sure no one broke the rules. Was very amusing to see all the cars stopping behind the ASL boxes, the bikes waiting for the lights to go green, the motorbikes doing 30mph over the bridge. All in all very nice change to see everyone obeying the rules for once.
     
    han and gentlegreen like this.
  7. han

    han brixton hill hobbit

    What I don't understand is, why don't they just fine drivers who jump red lights and who drive into in the cycle boxes? It'd soon stop it. Cctv picks up number plates of cars for the congestion charge after all. If they did that instead of cutting people's disability benefits, our country would be a much more civilised place.

    Oh, and by the way, as a driver and a cyclist, I'm totally in favour of cyclists being fined for jumping red lights too.
     
    gentlegreen likes this.
  8. gentlegreen

    gentlegreen Bulla liberali in perpetuum.

  9. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

    If all road laws were properly enforced the roads would be safer for everyone. ASL box laws have never been enforced before today, will be interested to see how many ASL fines and points get dolled out now...
     
    plurker likes this.
  10. golightly

    golightly I've been gentrified. - :(

    I cycle about 15 to 20 miles a day through central London streets and I see all sorts of behaviour. On my way home today I saw one cyclist dash through a red light causing a pedestrian to move out of the way, three pedestrians running across the road in front of traffic as it started to move, and I had a van cut across me at speed to dash across a red light. All very shitty behaviour in my opinion. It's just people being stupid. Doesn't matter what mode of transport they are using.

    The thing is I have to be careful, watch what I am doing and watch what other people are doing because the amount of time I am on the road I will be in accident eventually if I don't. I will continue to do this because it would be stupid not to. I have no respect for people who make judgements about me and my attitude to road safety just because I happen to ride a bike. I think that most cyclists like myself do treat pedestrians with due respect. You say that you see cyclists behaving unsafely every day. I am sure that is true, but I see motor vehicle drivers and pedestrians behaving unsafely every day as well. In all cases it is a minority, but it's always the minority that stick in a person's mind because they attract attention to themeselves. I gave three incidences of road users who behaved dangerously on my journey home, but I passed hundreds of vehicle drivers, pedestrians and cyclists who didn't.
     
  11. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    And how many accidents (rather than deaths) are there involving pedestrians where cyclists are on the pavement/when the cyclist's gone through a red light/at top speed across a zebra crossing when they shouldn't be?

    And I'm not condemning all cyclists -- just pointing out that a significant minority do things they shouldn't and a lot of other cyclists downplay the potential dangers to pedestrians. And just because I'm pointing out the bad behaviour of cyclists doesn't mean I wouldn't/don't condemn drivers for doing the same things, though I do tend to encounter rather fewer on the pavement (and fewer other drivers who make excuses for such behaviour).
     
  12. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    And you sound like a responsible cyclist. Unfortunately, a significant minority of cyclists are not as responsible as you are. As a cyclist, you have to pay attention on the roads because if you get hit by a car/lorry/bus, you're likely to come off worst. Likewise as a pedestrian. Except I really shouldn't have to be concerned about being hit by a bike/vehicle when walking along the pavement or crossing on a green man. (In the same way as I don't dash in front of vehicles/bikes or wander along in the middle of the road because that would be utterly stupid behaviour. And yes, there are stupid pedestrians too, in fact there are a lot of stupid people using all kinds of transport.)
     
  13. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    It's rather insensitive of you to be banging on about shit cyclists on this thread. It is not appreciated
     
    Miss-Shelf and BigTom like this.
  14. gentlegreen

    gentlegreen Bulla liberali in perpetuum.

    I blame Pickmans for starting it.
     
  15. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Sometimes it feels like every cyclist in the UK has to be behaving perfectly before cyclists are allowed to complain about being put in danger.
     
  16. weepiper

    weepiper Jock under the bed

    'crackdown' in Edinburgh too

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/drivers-face-100-fines-for-invading-cyclist-space-1-3196431

    Actually a fairly balanced article.
     
  17. golightly

    golightly I've been gentrified. - :(

    No you shouldn't.

    Tbh, I have had situations where people crossing the road have looked a little shocked when I stop and allow them to cross, which says something.
     
    gentlegreen likes this.
  18. salem

    salem Well-Known Member

    I was pleased to see the police put on their blue lights and chase a car that tried to turn across my path without seeing me the other day on the North side of Westminstr Bridge.
     
    Orang Utan, Winot and gentlegreen like this.
  19. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Again. Why is it that every time a cyclist dies people use it as an excuse to wheel out their unrelated beefs with cyclists? It's utterly bizarre. I mean, imagine if we did the same every time a pedestrian was killed by a car. (Of course, we don't, because it's so routine)

    "Did you see that guy got knocked down by a lorry the other day?
    Yeah, pedestrians eh? You know, a lot of them cross roads drunk, without looking both ways, have their headphones in, or without paying attention. They really need more training or on-the-spot fines or something."
     
  20. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

    They should have some sort of number plate and insurance.
     
    Miss-Shelf and plurker like this.
  21. gentlegreen

    gentlegreen Bulla liberali in perpetuum.

    They fine pedestrians for jay-walking in the states, but their road death-rate per head of population is more than 3 times ours.
     
  22. DJWrongspeed

    DJWrongspeed radio eros

    My biggest fear cycling in London is actually hitting a pedestrian. Anyone else feel like this ?
     
    Orang Utan likes this.
  23. golightly

    golightly I've been gentrified. - :(

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    I certainly do when I go past Waterloo Station and people just run out behind buses in my path. I make a point of cycling right down the middle of the road to give myself time to react if someone just appears in front of me.
     
  24. salem

    salem Well-Known Member

    What is it about Waterloo Station? I cylced past there recently and 3 blokes standing in the bus lane and then one decides to step back into my path as I was passing. Fortunately based on the fact they were standing there paying attention to the old firestation building then the fact they were in the middle of a bus lane I had slowed down in anticipation of further stupid behaviour.

    Coming back the other direction that evening some idiot opened a minicab door in front of the cyclist just behind me - luckily enough they managed to avoid injury and we're just very shocked.

    The crossing seems to be one of the worst for people crossing on a red without actually checking nothing is coming.
     
  25. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Can't say it's my biggest fear. I worry about absent-mindedly going through green lights and getting clocked by a bus turning right when the queue of stationary traffic stops either side of the hashed box :(
     
  26. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

  27. fredfelt

    fredfelt Mostly unknown member

    From that report:

    Perhaps the police should hand over advice to all cyclists and simply advise them to avoid particular stretches of these cycle superhighways. This surely has to be the biggest way that a cyclist put themselves at risk.
     
    Winot likes this.
  28. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Another ride in seeing police officers badly positioned for protecting cyclists. I'd like to know how they decided where to stand, and whether they looked at http://map.itoworld.com/ when deciding.
     
  29. laptop

    laptop Freudenschade

    They were standing at traffic lights: mostly, I was guessing, because that was where it was convenient to wave people over - and to chat with cyclists in the box.
     
  30. DrRingDing

    DrRingDing 'anti-human wanker'

    It's extremely dangerous and arrogant by drivers.
     

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