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5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

han

brixton hill hobbit
You totally can sprint on quiet streets. It's easier, there's more room, lots of people do it.

I like cycling fast too, and often really go for it. It's much more pleasant doing that if there's plenty of room and no threat of being knocked over.
 

han

brixton hill hobbit
Orang Utan said:
You can't if their are parked cars unless it's a really wide road.
Or you'd be mad to.
Just go in the middle of the road - what's the problem?
 

gentlegreen

Bulla liberali in perpetuum.
My local council's recommended cycle route utility took me up several residential streets and made me cross two or three main roads instead of two to try to persuade me not to cycle through a park.
 

gentlegreen

Bulla liberali in perpetuum.
I personally find "20MPH" limits outrageous in many side streets.
I would say 10MPH in a car, perhaps 15MPH on a bike.
 

han

brixton hill hobbit
Orang Utan said:
I just think it's too fast on a side street. I would only go fast on a main road.
Well, people are different, aren't they.
The thing is, you rarely hear of cyclists dying on these quiet sidestreets.
 

han

brixton hill hobbit
Yes, but if you're a considerate and observant cyclist, and anticipate potential situations before they happen, no-one will get hurt.

I've been cycling in London for nearly 15 years, and with this attitude have had no accidents or hurt anyone.
 

gentlegreen

Bulla liberali in perpetuum.
Here's a narrow street in Bristol I cycle down every day - it has challenging sight-lines - I admit the double door-zone incident was the first time I can remember it happening, but it was food for thought.


I actually rely on house windows to see around the corner.
 

golightly

I've been gentrified. - :(
I much prefer the busier roads to the quiet streets and all the parked cars on either side of the road.
I don't want to slow down - part of the enjoyment of riding is the sprinting on the long flats and you can't do that on quiet streets or cycle paths.
I enjoy the thrill of being in heavy traffic too. :oops:

Same here. The Aldwych is one of my favourite stretches of road because it's always busy and I have to concentrate on what I am doing.
 

Sue

Well-Known Member
I get a real sense that car drivers and pedestrians (who don't cycle) do not consider that cyclists have the right to the road; that they are in some way trivial.
I'm a pedestrian who doesn't cycle. Of course cyclists have 'the right to the road'. Of course they should have more cycle lanes, improved road design and whatever else will make cycling safer and easier. I'm a big fan of cyclists.

However, in the same way that other road users should show cyclists more respect, so cyclists must show more respect for pedestrians. That means not cycling on the pavement, not riding through red lights at top speed when people are trying to cross at the green man, not shouting at pedestrians they perceive as being in their way when they're crossing perfectly properly at zebra crossings/green men. I see these things every single day. Unfortunately, a lot of cyclists deny these things happen or play them down as being unimportant presumably because they're not that concerned about the pedestrians involved. I really don't think that helps anyone. If cyclists in general treated pedestrians with a bit more respect, I think pedestrians in general would have a bit more respect for cyclists.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
I get a real sense that car drivers and pedestrians (who don't cycle) do not consider that cyclists have the right to the road; that they are in some way trivial.
if car drivers took umbrage the way cyclists do when it is pointed out that some of their number are a positive menace there'd be umpteen threads on the issue here. as Sue says, a bit more consideration for pedestrians might see cyclists earn the respect they believe they deserve.
 
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gentlegreen

Bulla liberali in perpetuum.
This is a thread about cyclists being killed by motor vehicles.
That some cyclists are c*nts to pedestrians is irrelevant to the thread.
Plenty of pedestrians are a great threat to cyclists.
 

gentlegreen

Bulla liberali in perpetuum.
How is me saying 20MPH is too fast showing disrespect to pedestrians ?

I believe residential streets should be sufficiently safe for children to play in them.
 

littlebabyjesus

one of Maxwell's demons
I'm a pedestrian who doesn't cycle. Of course cyclists have 'the right to the road'. Of course they should have more cycle lanes, improved road design and whatever else will make cycling safer and easier. I'm a big fan of cyclists.

However, in the same way that other road users should show cyclists more respect, so cyclists must show more respect for pedestrians. That means not cycling on the pavement, not riding through red lights at top speed when people are trying to cross at the green man, not shouting at pedestrians they perceive as being in their way when they're crossing perfectly properly at zebra crossings/green men. I see these things every single day. Unfortunately, a lot of cyclists deny these things happen or play them down as being unimportant presumably because they're not that concerned about the pedestrians involved. I really don't think that helps anyone. If cyclists in general treated pedestrians with a bit more respect, I think pedestrians in general would have a bit more respect for cyclists.
Ok. But keep this in perspective. Between 1998 and 2007 in London, 0 people walking on the pavement were killed by cyclists. In that same time period, 54 people walking on the pavement were killed by cars/buses/lorries.

To a pedestrian walking along the pavement, the real danger is of a car ploughing into to you, not a cyclist. Do you condemn all drivers for the five a year who kill people by ploughing into the pavement? If not, why not, how does your not condemning all drivers fit with your above post?

tbh I think this society has become rather inured to the annual carnage caused by cars. It seems natural, inevitable, barely worth commenting on. But it isn't. And it is the real issue here.
 
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Crispy

The following psytrance is baṉned: All
There's a psychological element at work here, I think. When describing events on the road, we commonly describe vehicles controlled by people as cars, vans, lorries. "that car was going too fast" "that bus was holding up the traffic" "that van suddenly swerved in front of me". Even motorbikes get the same treatment. But because people riding bikes are exposed and obvious, they are "cyclists" not "bicycles". It's much easier to attach their behaviour to the person, rather then the vehicle. It makes the confrontations personal, not mechanical.

You make eye contact with cyclists, they're people and you hold them up to personal standards of morality. Cars are some sort of hybrid organism that have wills of their own. The machine takes some of the responsibility.

Maybe, I might be over thinking it.
 

han

brixton hill hobbit
littlebabyjesus said:
tbh I think this society has become rather inured to the annual carnage caused by cars. It seems natural, inevitable, barely worth commenting on. But it isn't. And it is the real issue here.
Yes. It's seen as 'collateral damage'. It's a non-issue, you're right.
 

pooka

Can't Re Member
Yes Waterloo Bridge, the view is glorious and different every time.

I love my cycle commute, it keeps me sane. I have discovered a route on Bike Hub, the mobile app that uses the Cyclestreets mapping system. It means I am going along quiet side streets pretty much all the way from Brixton Hill to Euston (except Waterloo Bridge).

The Bike Hub app has revolutionised my journey planning in London. I pretty much always choose the quiet routes and thus my cycling has been transformed from being a risky but exhilarating stop-start weaving in and out ride, to a nice chilled amble.

The great thing about the sidestreets = no traffic lights, no inexperienced cyclists wobbling along the superhighways......
 
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