Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Funny innit. Who was the full-back who was held up as England's golden boy in the recent world cup? Jason Robinson, who came from playing league for Wigan, to union.Donna Ferentes said:
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- Thread starter JTG
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Donna Ferentes
jubliado
To a small degree I think it is: the point you make about there not being much of an international scene is true, and frankly it amazes me that the Australian side as always as good as they are given that they've really nobody much to play against.tarannau said:
The reason there's not much of an international scene is, of course, history, relating to who played which code and what happened when they did. History has an impact in the present, that's why we take an interest in it.
There's only one country in the world where the two codes have competed with one another on level terms: that country is Australia.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Funny, I could have sworn that the All Blacks weren't the GB side. But they must be, otherwise this would be an irrational comparison.gabi said:
Paulie Tandoori said:
The more pertinent point is that he could only have achieved such acclaim by playing Union isn't it?
The boot's on the other foot when it comes to recruiting cross-code players now. The best rugby players are likely to end up being drawn to union to some extent now.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
For sure, but that's because there's much more money in it.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
To be honest as far as I'm concerned, simply considered as games the league/union debate is singularly pointless. It's like choosing between motorcycling and motor racing, or chess and Go: you're picking between things that are similar but which bring different qualities to prominence. I prefer league, other people union, that's fine. What does annoy me is:
(a) snobbery about league ;
(b) ignorance of the hgistory involved or denial of its impact in the present.
There's a persistent and nasty attitude that league's just waiting to disappear because only union's amateurism prevented that from happening. Now even if that weren't a hypocrisy on more than one level, union's been fully professional for a long time now and we're still waiting. I can recall Wank Keating writing in the Guardian some years ago that league would be dead inside five years: this was rather more than five years ago. I wish I'd kept the cutting.
(a) snobbery about league ;
(b) ignorance of the hgistory involved or denial of its impact in the present.
There's a persistent and nasty attitude that league's just waiting to disappear because only union's amateurism prevented that from happening. Now even if that weren't a hypocrisy on more than one level, union's been fully professional for a long time now and we're still waiting. I can recall Wank Keating writing in the Guardian some years ago that league would be dead inside five years: this was rather more than five years ago. I wish I'd kept the cutting.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Internationally, yeah, but I'd put it to you that in domestic terms union trophies do not have the importance that the league ones do.tarannau said:
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
You appear to have a stutter, sir.
Donna Ferentes said:
Perhaps, but I'd put it to you that's largely to them being less established and stable, with too many sponsorship and reorganisational goings-on diluting the value, particularly with the demands on players. The daft league and multiple cup structure doesn't help - I can barely keep up or evaluate them against each other and I consider myself fairly informed on the sport.
The European/Heineken cup is arguably the biggest club rugby prize of the lot now.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Well it is, but I think that's because club rugby, outside Wales, has never in fact been of wide public interest and so you get a lot of thrashing about from club chairmen and chief executives who can't understand why their "product" isn't proving as successful as they expected.tarannau said:
The European trophy has the benefit of producing international rivalries.
CherryRipe
Well-Known Member
Donna Ferentes said:
Correct.
Much as Gabi wouldn't admit to it Rugby League is the preferred sport of many of the Islanders that have played Union for the money.
If you went throught the list a huge number of them played League in their early years and then switched.
Even some of the biggest names like Lomu and Umanga all started with League.
CherryRipe said:
Er, yes. exactly. They started with league then switched to union... u dont see the reverse happening anymore now that rugby players get paid. the days of murray mexted etc are long gone..
in south auckland league is still fairly popular - but the money/glamour is in union not in league. any league player would jump at the chance to play for a super 14 side or the national side.
obv. im a little uninformed about the situation in GB, but yeh please - dont lecture me on what the situation is in NZ. u cant even spell Umaga's name correctly ffs. are u tarannau in disguise (he who knows the lot about multi-culturalism in NZ despite never having been anywhere near the place?)
CherryRipe
Well-Known Member
gabi said:
Geez you can get a bit wound up.
What I was saying was that in contention to your following quote.
"Um, no, its not. the kiwi nation is entirely obsessed by one sport, the one they always fuck up when it matters.
league is pretty much only played in auckland, and is very much seen as a poor man's union. u play league if u're not good enough for union. much the same as over here."
That isn't true, the Kiwi nation isn't entirely obsessed by one sport - my contention is that if there were the same money available in both codes then I think a number of the Islanders would continue with League. My understanding is that League also has a big following in Wellington.
I know you are a Kiwi and I'm not trying to tell you about your country but I have lived and worked in both Wellington and Auckland.
It's OK that we disagree though.
CherryRipe
Well-Known Member
By the way Gabi did you see the great story about Jerry Collins. Comes over as a fantastic bloke.
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/english-club-hit-by-terminator/2007/11/02/1193619107060.html
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/english-club-hit-by-terminator/2007/11/02/1193619107060.html
CherryRipe
Well-Known Member
gabi said:Damn newbies. Its NOT ok that we disagree!!!
outside!
Check my join date....
CherryRipe
Well-Known Member
gabi said:Saw that yeh. Mustve been quite a sight for the opposition
the story I read about it said Dan Carter might turn out for them too.
May have read that too somewhere. It's how sport should be, I liked it about how Collins played to their level. Nothing to prove about how tough a bloke he is, just went out bought a pair of footy boots had a run and then got his shout in at the bar.
Wonder how many other pro players would do the same. Spectators I think often forget that even without the money the guys would be playing because of the love for the game.
