4 x 4 vs Sports Cars

[DownwardDog]

I reckon that they were 25 years ago. Now they are bloated tanks.

And not only that they are appallingly badly screwed together. I had a new one a few years ago and had ceaseless gearbox trauma pretty much from day one.

There are still some 4x4s with the sort of single minded design cohesion that the RR used to have but we don't get them in Europe.

Landcruiser 70 "Troopie" from Australia/NZ

 

[cybertect]

well mine is both, a sports car with 4 doors AND 4 wheel drive, do I get doubly hated?

I reckon 90% of the population couldn't tell the difference between an A4 and an RS4 at 50 paces. You're pretty safe

[behind this lies a serious point]

 

[kyser_soze]

well mine is both, a sports car with 4 doors AND 4 wheel drive, do I get doubly hated?

(not mine but same colour etc)

*fapping sounds*

 

[ice-is-forming]

many people who have been in my 4x4 have emerged shaky and commenting that i drive it like a sports car

 

[The Groke]

well mine is both, a sports car with 4 doors AND 4 wheel drive, do I get doubly hated?

(not mine but same colour etc)

Luvverly.


I have my eye on one of these for the new year:

 

[fredfelt]

I saw one of those Porche 4x4 the other day. Blackened windows, lowered, fat exhaust, matt / gun metal paint job and it had no badges. It looked very mean. I can see the appeal if you have loads of cash to flash.

 

[snadge]

I'm not too keen on the A5, it looks too big, mine may be an estate but parked next to an A5 it is lower, not as long or as wide.

Mine is the older 2.7 V6 twin turbo booshed up to about 450BHP.

I was at a track day with it earlier in the year and porsche 911's were left in my wake, top speed on the long straight was clocked @ 185mph still accelerating.

 

[Mitre10]

There's a lot of inverted snobbery around this issue. 4x4s tend to be driven by aspirational braying Henrys. Whereas many people from all classes would love a Lambo if they had the wedge.

A Freelander takes up no more space on the road than a Volvo estate. I'd rather be hit by a Range Rover with plastic bull bars, crawling down a narrow street than by some cunt in an M3 testing the 0-60 on the same street.

Out of intrest, what do you make of these:

I remember Richard Hammond arsing about it one of those on Top Gear once.

Awesome things, don't they have a TVR engine? Sports car and 4x4 in one package

 

[T & P]

But interestingly, - less than a Prius - I recall that fabulous item where an M3 followed a Prius round the Top Gear test track and burned a whole lot less fuel.

Yes- at constant speeds in excess of 100 mph in race driving style.

So if one buys a car with the sole purpose of using it in a race track, they'd be better off buying a sports car than a Prius.

In the real world however, and specifically in everyday city driving, the Prius naturally pisses on the consumption levels of a sports car by a country mile- which are simply appalling.

 

[T & P]

The M3 was following the Prius whose driver was instructed to try to make decent progress within the RTA.

Indeed, if you drive anything around like it's loaded with loose eggs then it'll achieve better economy than if you drive it like you actually want to make significant progress.

If you just want to pootle around hideously slowly then why buy a Prius, you could always take the bus instead.

Do you drive in cities at 100 mph then?

 

[snadge]

I was working down South Wales, staying at my mates and we alternated our vehicles, work round trip was about 70 miles, mostly motorway, a little B road.

He had a Citroen Berlingo thing 1200cc and my Audi RS4, we stuck to the speed limit of 70mph and after 2 weeks my fuel bill was lower than his.

go figure.

As well as it skitting around in the wet and feeling decidedly unsafe driving I found it to be dangerously underpowered when pulling out from junctions etc.

 

[Cobbles]

Yes- at constant speeds in excess of 100 mph in race driving style.

Ho ho - the Prius can barely crack the ton so that's clearly bollocks - as described, The BMW was following the Prius (round a track with loads of testing corners - it's not all about straight line speed) as it tried to crack on.

here's another one: Prius (toy) Vs. BMW 520 (proper saloon).

Guess which was more fuel efficient - The BMW......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

 

[likesfish]

its not the 4x4 people object to its the tank like size of the suv beasts usually driven inconsiderably that gets up peoples noises.
fine if you need a 4x4 but if you live in London you don't.
tarted up range rovers look twatish but as tim westwood drives I presume that the point.

 

[T & P]

Ho ho - the Prius can barely crack the ton so that's clearly bollocks - as described, The BMW was following the Prius (round a track with loads of testing corners - it's not all about straight line speed) as it tried to crack on.

The Prius' top speed is more or less 100 mph. The point is, the Prius was being driven in a race driving style, up to maximum revs and maximum speed for most of the time.

Nobody does (or can) drive like that in cities. Nobody.

Therefore that example is a complete fallacy when it comes to real world, public roads, every day fuel consumption.

In real world, public roads, every day fuel consumption, the Prius' figures are only about 7 million times better than those of an M3. Specially in urban driving.

Amusing as the stunt was, Clarkson doesn't really fool anyone with it.

 

[kabbes]

Amusing as the stunt was, Clarkson doesn't really fool anyone with it.

Objection. Apparently he does fool one person with it.

 

[kyser_soze]

Well, we can all see what happened:

 

[snadge]

Therefore that example is a complete fallacy when it comes to real world, public roads, every day fuel consumption.

In real world, public roads, every day fuel consumption, the Prius' figures are only about 7 million times better than those of an M3. Specially in urban driving.

don't be so silly, the prius will be better around congested towns, about 2* but the M3 will spank it on long runs at 70 mph on motorways easily, my RS4 returns 40 MPG stuck on cruise control @ 70 MPH, more @ 60 MPH.

small engined cars are terrible at motorway speeds plus the NOISE, the the rattles of a small car running at 80% of it's maximum, the Citreon I mentioned above was flat out at 85 MPH and screaming for mercy. edited to add, the one time I decided to give it some.

 

[kabbes]

He had a Citroen Berlingo thing 1200cc and my Audi RS4, we stuck to the speed limit of 70mph and after 2 weeks my fuel bill was lower than his.

small engined cars are terrible at motorway speeds plus the NOISE, the the rattles of a small car running at 80% of it's maximum, the Citreon I mentioned above was flat out at 85 MPH and screaming for mercy.

 

[snadge]

less of the looking around like that, of course I had a go at it's top speed, such an unpleasant experience that it was never tried again, the experiment I mentioned is kosher though, I was down there for a month and we used my car for the rest of the time, much more relaxing and economical than that 6 month old heap of shite citreon.

 

[T & P]

don't be so silly, the prius will be better around congested towns, about 2* but the M3 will spank it on long runs at 70 mph on motorways easily, my RS4 returns 40 MPG stuck on cruise control @ 70 MPH, more @ 60 MPH.

The 1.5 litre engine the Prius has is more than capable of running at 70mph without stress. And I'm willing to bet my house that at that speed it still pisses on most if not all performance sports cars on the planet.

If we were talking any faster, say 85mph+, things would be difference. But at 70mph? Piece of cake.

 

[snadge]

The 1.5 litre engine the Prius has is more than capable of running at 70mph without stress. And I'm willing to bet my house that at that speed it still pisses on most if not all performance sports cars on the planet.

If we were talking any faster, say 85mph+, things would be difference. But at 70mph? Piece of cake.

that's the 1.5 prius and how much are they? over 17k.

Who has that sort of money to chuck on a small car?

when the average price for a normal 1500cc is about 9k

The money you have saved on fuel is swallowed up big time by the initial cost of the car.

stupid money for what they are.

they are a niche car only and I stand by my statement that my RS4 is better on fuel at 60/70mph than a normal 1300cc/1500cc car, take it to 90mph and I KNOW it will be better than even a prius.

Plus Quieter, more comfortable with less effort to drive, far safer in an accident and in adverse conditions and a pure joy to drive.

As my RS4 is an extremely Rare car ( there were only 500 RHD sold in UK) so no depreciation, it was cheaper than a prius ( only slightly ) but after 2 years it is still worth 2* more than a 2 year old prius ( it is 10 years old).

Bit of a no brainer really, especially as most of my miles are on motorways.

 

[T & P]

that's the 1.5 prius and how much are they? over 17k.

Who has that sort of money to chuck on a small car?

when the average price for a normal 1500cc is about 9k

The money you have saved on fuel is swallowed up big time by the initial cost of the car.

stupid money for what they are.

That might be (I'm no fan of the Prius myself) but Clarkson's hatred of all things green sometimes gets the better of him and makes him claim silly things.

The bottom line remains that for every day use the Prius is, of course, nearly infintely more fuel efficient than a sports car. That indeed doesn't mean it's a better car than others or more desirable, but it really is absurd to pretend an M3 or other such sports cars are more fuel efficient on normal public road usage.

The stunt that Cobbles mentioned is useless and proves nothing. But since the initial acceleration of electric motors is far quicker than internal combustion engines, anyone could easily do a Clarkson and organise a stunt in which the speed covered in the first foot of travel by various models is measured, and then proclaim to the world that the Toyota Prius has better acceleration than an M3 or even a bloody Ferrari Enzo. It would be technically true, but bollocks in real life. Just like the fuel consumption claims.

 

[kabbes]

less of the looking around like that, of course I had a go at it's top speed, such an unpleasant experience that it was never tried again, the experiment I mentioned is kosher though, I was down there for a month and we used my car for the rest of the time, much more relaxing and economical than that 6 month old heap of shite citreon.

I find it surprising that your 40mpg at 70mph would win, because the average modern supermini gets more like 60mpg at its optimum cruising speed. But that's not the point in any case. Yes, a large engined cruiser will tend to be the preferred choice if you are going to be cruising on a motorway. But it is not the ideal choice if you are averaging 20mph, which is what the majority of us do every day.

 

[snadge]

I find it surprising that your 40mpg at 70mph would win, because the average modern supermini gets more like 60mpg at its optimum cruising speed. But that's not the point in any case. Yes, a large engined cruiser will tend to be the preferred choice if you are going to be cruising on a motorway. But it is not the ideal choice if you are averaging 20mph, which is what the majority of us do every day.

I use my motorcycle for daily use around town when I'm not working.

Honda XR400 returns about 70/90mpg tootling around town and I NEVER get stuck in traffic.

 

[kabbes]

Well yes. A motorbike is clearly going to piss all over almost any car in the efficiency stakes!

I traded down from my sports car to a supermini this year and I get more than 50% increased fuel efficiency. And that's real mileage, that comes from me meticulously recording how many litres I am filling up with and how many miles I am driving. Because I am anal like that.

Of course, not having a 20V Turbo engine does rather help you conserve fuel.

 

[djbombscare]

The thing is if your a wanky twat you have a mortgage the house range rover-esque shiny thing. They're nice great and that but a 4x4 like that (sports cars aside for the moment) is supposed to be designed for going off road. People that need and use 4x4's usually have some proper beat up old thing

You dont take a car the value of a house and throw it around off road unless your a complet twat.

Turn up at any skirmish or offroad thing and becasue all the knobby wankers are trying to be no no this aint a chelsea taxi and are buying Defenders keeping the bloody value up. What you'll find are semi old Discos and Range rovers snapped up for a grand, prepped up and battered from doing proper off road.

So I see those new range rovers and I'd love one. It would get 100% used properly as well.

But if I did so I may as well save myself the diesel cost.
Walk into the dealers, hand over me well earned, and start beating it up with a sledgehammer.

Until they come down I'll stick with some battered old thing to get me and me kit across the woods and fields

You can actually work on the old ones as well

 

[Cobbles]

Therefore that example is a complete fallacy when it comes to real world, public roads, every day fuel consumption.....

Let me see like a drive from London to Geneva?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

Prius lost - big time.....

"Life" in the high tech. Prius:

"This was to become my obsession over the next 545 miles as I battled to nudge the Prius into performing somewhere close to Toyota’s claim of 65mpg-plus motoring. By the time we reached the Channel tunnel the display revealed that I had averaged 55mpg. Hopefully things would improve on the long, uninterrupted roads in France.They didn’t – despite the fact that I didn’t use the air-conditioning and avoided turning on the stereo in an effort to conserve power."

In the BMW:

"It cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region. As I did so, I noted with slight satisfaction that Jason [NB the poor sod stuck in the Prius] was having difficulty keeping up, so I cut my speed. Had I been really serious about saving fuel I could have also switched off the air-conditioning and the stereo but I was more concerned about making this a real-world test."

 

[DownwardDog]

Well yes. A motorbike is clearly going to piss all over almost any car in the efficiency stakes!

Not always - the Euro3 regulations, which were drafted before climate change was the fashionable neurosis it is now, target CO, NOx and HC emissions and are particularly troublesome for fuel injected bikes as they don't (yet) have electrically pre-heated cats like cars. So to get through Euro3 bikes have to run really lean between 6,000 and 10,000rpm. This makes them quite ineffecient in terms of fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. I got about 15% increase in power and economy on my R1 by throwing the cat in the bin and remapping the fuel injection with a PCIII.

 

[snadge]

Coasting down the mountain into Geneva my Prius averaged 99.9mpg for a full 10 minutes. It was the highlight of my journey and improved my overall average fuel economy by a full 2mpg. But it was not enough. For all my defensive driving, slippery bodywork and hybrid technology, my average fuel consumption was 48.1mpg. I’d lost to a Beemer and I was disappointed; I had never driven so slowly or carefully for so long in my life. I’m considering buying a V8 Range Rover and opening my own oil well in protest.

This says it all....

 

[T & P]

Let me see like a drive from London to Geneva?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

Prius lost - big time.....

"Life" in the high tech. Prius:

"This was to become my obsession over the next 545 miles as I battled to nudge the Prius into performing somewhere close to Toyota’s claim of 65mpg-plus motoring. By the time we reached the Channel tunnel the display revealed that I had averaged 55mpg. Hopefully things would improve on the long, uninterrupted roads in France.They didn’t – despite the fact that I didn’t use the air-conditioning and avoided turning on the stereo in an effort to conserve power."

In the BMW:

"It cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region. As I did so, I noted with slight satisfaction that Jason [NB the poor sod stuck in the Prius] was having difficulty keeping up, so I cut my speed. Had I been really serious about saving fuel I could have also switched off the air-conditioning and the stereo but I was more concerned about making this a real-world test."

That BMW was a diesel. Not exactly a sports model then- and certainly not exactly like the M3.

I'm yet to see any evidence that the Prius is less fuel efficient than an M3, or even a less powerful performance sports car.

And I doubt I'll ever see it- since it does and cannot exist- not on current models.