2minute silence..Shh Don't mention the War

[fucthest8]

No. I don't "get it". Everyone deals with death and grief at certain times in their lives. They don't all have a nationwide 'silence' to assist them in the 'healing process' - there's things like rememberance services, vigils... for those that what it.

You're right of course. Fuck 'em. We can't help everyone, so let's help no-one.

I shal now be singing and dancing during the silence.

 

[poet]

Bit in bold : this is virtually an accusation of racism and it's out of order IMO.

If I hadn't been told I was selfish and heartless I wouldn't have responded with a rant, I wouldn't have come back on the attack. Perhaps my comments are too aggressive, but I deeply resent being portrayed as heartless because I don't buy into mourning the deaths of a group of people i've never met in a place I rarely go to out of some sense of national identity or whatever it is that I'm expected to feel.

 

[The Groke]

I was thinking about this this morning.

My first thought "Who are these silences for?"

Do the victims and the families of victims of any tragedy give a flying fuck that n people around the world are not talking for a perscribed period of time?

Are the silences really for those affected or are they for everyone else to "indulge" in some of the sorrow.......


Then, after reading Badgers post I decided to stop being an arse and over-analysing shit like this.

Agree/Disagree, whatever. Just let people have their grief in anyway they wish.

Take part/don't take part - its up to you, but it is hardly an appropriate time or subject for smug points scoring over your fellow urbanites.

 

[butchersapron]

If I hadn't been told I was selfish and heartless I wouldn't have responded with a rant, I wouldn't have come back on the attack. Perhaps my comments are too aggressive, but I deeply resent being portrayed as heartless because I don't buy into mourning the deaths of a group of people i've never met in a place I rarely go to out of some sense of national identity or whatever it is that I'm expected to feel.

So your response to that is to label other people racist? Not to outline in a clear coherent way why you think what you do, but to just lash out and make very very serious accusations. If you don't like being called heartless how do you think people like being called racist?

 

[HarrisonSlade]

Today, tomorrow and every day 30,000 people will die because of wholly preventable poverty. Excuse me for not getting all choked up that people died in London. Unlike your fine, morally impeccable self I don't rank the lives of rich white British people above those of poor Africans or all the brown folk getting blown to bits in Iraq every day or all the thousands of other people who die or are killed for fuck all reason each and every day. Like it or not this silence is an act which implies a greater value of British lives over others, something I cannot condone.

I can get all choked up about people dying in London, because those people could have been me or my friends. When I return to London I will be living in Hackney Wick where the Number 30 starts and I will be living right next to Marble Arch where the Number 30 ends. Most of my friends in London either live in Hackney or Dalston. When I heard that the Number 30 had been the bus that exploded I felt ill. I rang around everyone I could. It was a nightmare, but it made me realise how much I love my friends and my family. This is not unusual for people in London. Many people did have friends and family who died in those attacks.

For me, this was a greater tragedy than September 11th. This was on my own doorstep, and I will be silent for the 2 minutes to contemplate that.

 

[Hollis]

Take part/don't take part - its up to you, but it is hardly an appropriate time or subject for smug points scoring over your fellow urbanites.

Err, no this is a discussion board.. points can be made without being "smug".

 

[El Jugador]

Actually this is something one of my family used to do (he's dead now) Every day at midday he would just sit in silence for one minute and contemplate the suffering going on in the world and thank his lucky stars that he wasn't about to die of some hideous poverty or war related situation that day.

He sounds like a caring person - Though we must also remember that good luck and happiness is a special enough gift not to be wasted or thrown away over matters that we can't control - but such a balance is not so easy to maintain is it?

 

[gentlegreen]

Take part/don't take part - its up to you,

Apparently not ... as no doubt many people will be expected to go outside to demonstrate that they're joining in.

They've almost run out of colours for ribbons, how many annual silences will there be 10 years from now ?

On the roundabout outside my local ASDA they are still placing flowers years after a teenager killed himself through dangerous driving.
.
.
edited to say I fully understand why this is important in London, I just wish Tony "People's Princess" Blair wasn't so involved ...

 

[treelover]

Without wanting to sound pompous or insensitive, and respecting other peoples feelings, yesterday 24 children were blown up in Iraq while waiting to collect sweets off american soldiers. i can't help but think any silence should include these poor poor things. I also am very suspicious of state sponsered silence, the one in Madrid was a cry of pain yes, but also beacme a statement on the duplicity of the Aznar govt, will people on here shout down anyone who has a banner such as 'Our Dead, Their Wars' as people carried on that event . I also have to say i think it is very dangerous ata time of national crisis, when people are shouted down on on an open bulletin board for expressing opinions however, unpalatable or unpleasant,

 

[The Groke]

Err, no this is a discussion board.. points can be made without being "smug".

Agreed, but already the usual cry of "RACIST" blah blah blah is going up rather than people actually discussing it

 

[Squatticus]

I agree with poet

 

[Groucho]

Then do it in your own head and respect those who wish to spend the two minutes quietly contemplating the tragic events of last week.

It's not hard you know.

It is not quite as straight forward as that is it? but no-one is suggesting breaking the silence to make the point.

We had a Govt. sponsored silence for the victims of 9/11. We now have a Govt sponsored silence for the victims of the London bombs. Nothing for the 100,0000s victims in Iraq, or the thousands in Afghanistan. There is a clear political message in this - that the lives of Brits and the US are worth more than lives of Iraqis or Afghans. That one set of murders is justified and the other not (my view both are unjustified). Tony Blair lost no time in declaring in his early response to the bombs that the 'war on terror' - i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan possibly Syria and Iran would continue. The political point that murders in London would not deter Blair from sending troops and bombers to murder elsewhere surely should be challenged.

I will observe the silence in respect for the dead and most especially in respect for my colleagues who, like me, have been moved and shocked by the events of last week. But I reserve my right to point people to the vigil on Sunday in Russell Square called by the Stop the War Coalition and MAB to mark all the deaths and to take a stand for unity against the Islamophobic backlash.

 

[Hollis]

You're right of course. Fuck 'em. We can't help everyone, so let's help no-one.

I shal now be singing and dancing during the silence.

You're being abit silly.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

IWhen I return to London I will be living in Hackney Wick where the Number 30 starts and I will be living right next to Marble Arch where the Number 30 ends.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, as it seems poet is unwilling or unable to answer as to why he cares about the 30 000 daily deaths that he mentions, deaths that he cares so much about as to sets aside part of each day to 'meditate' on them, despite their having 'piss all' to with him, I can only conclude that he's doing this on the basis of a recognition of some sort of shared common humanity, that these deaths all count because they're all humans, even though he personally has 'piss all' to with them. Which then opens up the doors for others to care about the deaths of others who they had 'piss all' to with (without meaning that they in turn do not care about the other deaths). Which of course totally undermines poets whole argument concerning today's silence and his point about remembering people who they may have had no direct contact with.

 

[STFC]

Last Thursday's bombings were right on my doorstep. People were being murdered in the city I live in, in locations I have been to recently. I, or anyone I know that lives or works in London could have been killed or hurt. Thankfully nobody I know suffered anything more than disruption to their normal routines. Thousands of people weren't that lucky.

Today's two minute silence is intended as a gesture of compassion and sympathy for the victims and their families, and also as a gesture of resolve against such atrocious acts. Observe it or don't observe it, the choice is yours. I know I will.

 

[HarrisonSlade]

Sorry. It's early. I will be working in London where it ends.

 

[secretsquirrel]

After thinking no one I knew had been directly affected by this I've just found out I'm wrong and it's left me feeling sick to my stomach. I'm as cynical as the next person about mass outpourings of organised grief but if it helps anyone in anyway who has been affected by this then I feel I have no right to condemn them.

I doubt I'll observe it myself. It's not my style. But I'm carrying a very heavy heart around with me today and I can think of little else.

 

[Cakes]

This silence is in respect for those who died and the fear caused, but also for all of us to realise what it means when a bomb could go off at any time on your own doorstep.

This is what I would do. I was brought up to go to church, but was not really into it, so learnt to use the contemplative silences to think about things like what actions were/are helpful, useful and strong, aswell as remeberance of the dead and effected.

If everyone were to focus for two minutes on how they would try to cope with being caught up in an attack - like the benefit of BadgerKitten's steely reserve to keep calm and supportive while trapped on the tube - then it would be very useful time spent.

This is aside from spending two minutes in respectful rememberance of the dead and maimed. I'm in danger of sounding like a god botherer or wacked out hippy, but I believe there is something very powerful about the idea of millions of people focusing their thoughts on these unfortunate people for a couple of minutes.

 

[William of Walworth]

Agreed, but already the usual cry of "RACIST" blah blah blah is going up rather than people actually discussing it

It wasn't the 'usual' cry though was it -- it was poet and he's been correctly called out by several people for being out of order.

 

[Fruitloop]

Well, as it seems poet is unwilling or unable to answer as to why he cares about the 30 000 daily deaths that he mentions, deaths that he cares so much about as to sets aside part of each day to 'meditate' on them, despite their having 'piss all' to with him, I can only conclude that he's doing this on the basis of a recognition of some sort of shared common humanity, that these deaths all count because they're all humans, even though he personally has 'piss all' to with them. Which then opens up the doors for others to care about the deaths of others who they had 'piss all' to with (without meaning that they in turn do not care about the other deaths). Which of course totally undermines poets whole argument concerning today's silence and his point about remembering people who they may have had no direct contact with.

I took him to mean that he thought that the fact that they also happened to be British was 'piss all' - the accident of a shared nationality is no reason to privilege one group of people's lives over another, although obviously any kind of killing is to be condemned. I feel pretty much this way myself - that nationality is too arbitrary a connection that it should skew our perception in this way.

 

[beeboo]

Well, personally I think the silence is a good idea, particularly the symbolism of observing it on the street.
I’m not normally a big one for silences, and I understand the views of those who object to them. Normally I just find the whole thing a bit artificial and awkward.

However, I’m encouraging everyone (who wants to) in our office to get out onto the street for the silence. I feel like a bit of an idiot making a fuss about it, but in the grand scheme of things a little embarrassment is nothing. A lot of people (in general, not here) seem to be saying ‘yeah, it’s a good idea’ but aren’t making the effort to observe it.

In the greater scheme of things, what happened last Thursday was hardly a major event, and I agree that we have as much of a responsibility (if not more so) to make a stand against what has happened in Fallujah etc. And I don’t expect the residents of Fallujah to pause even for a second to think of what has happened in London – it is almost trivial in comparison

However, I still feel that as Londoners it is only right that we should make some kind of reaction to last Thursday. This is something that it is easy for people to do,, and is both an act of remembrance and symbol of our defiance.

 

[butchersapron]

I took him to mean that he thought that the fact that they also happened to be British was 'piss all' - the accident of a shared nationality is no reason to privilege one group of people's lives over another, although obviously any kind of killing is to be condemned. I feel pretty much this way myself - that nationality is too arbitrary a connection that it should skew our perception in this way.

That doesn't really affect my above point though does it? If he's going to make the leap to caring about other deaths in his own case, then he has to extend that same ability to others in this case, and not call those who do racist, given that they're just practising what he's preaching.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Why does turning your thoughts towards victims of the London bombings have to be mutually exclusive from caring about what happens in Africa and Iraq??

Maybe because there hasn't been a 2 minutes silence for the dead in Iraq, nor even a minute. I dont have any problem with a combined silence for all deaths due to terrorist attacks, but that's not the way this silence is being put forward. It seems remembering dead Iraqis (or anyone else) is an optional extra and it shouldnt be.

 

[Badgers]

Leaving my desk now............

 

[pagan]

Rip

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe because there hasn't been a 2 minutes silence for the dead in Iraq, nor even a minute. I dont have any problem with a combined silence for all deaths due to terrorist attacks, but that's not the way this silence is being put forward. It seems remembering dead Iraqis (or anyone else) is an optional extra and it shouldnt be.

You want a Blair endorsed silence for the dead in Iraq?

If people had the will they could get together and organise another silence for just that reason, outside of and against official channels.

 

[ddraig]

that was, emotional
for many reasons

 

[belboid]

800 T&G delegates just went outside and observed the silence perfectly. It was a quite moving experience as the entirety of Blackpool (minus the seagulls) went completely silent. I'm sure most of us were remembering ALL the dead concerned.

 

[gaijingirl]

Mass confusion in my office over the 2minute silence.. which was heralded by sounding the fire alarm... only no one thought to tell us that the fire alarm would be sounded to signal the start of the silence... and it went on for a good 30 seconds.. so confused looks all round... are we supposed to be evacuating, or is this for the silence??

Looked out the window though (overlooking Smithfield market) and it was touching to see everyone standing still in contemplation...