24% get A grades at A level

[WouldBe]

Its not been mentioned yet, the big "E" word.
Employment is becomming increasing difficult now and i suspect harder in the future without some sort of formal qualification.
Jobs that a few decades ago needed nothng , today need a degree

The other problem with that is that if I turn up for an interview with my C grade at A' level in Chemistry and a youngster turns up with an A grade (which if like someone else suggested is only equivalent to an O' level) how does the employer know who is the better candidate?

 

[leftistangel]

There is no controversy about A-levels. They are a devalued currency. We know this from two pieces of research. In 2000 the Engineering Council published the results of as ten-year survey into the ninths skills of university students starting maths, science and engineering courses, Identical tests were given to comparable groups of students each year. They found that, though A-level grades improved, skills declined. For example. students who failed their A-levels in 1991 had better test results than those who scored C grades in 1998,

Meanwhile, Durham University had been giving an unvarying general ability test to students since 1988. By 2003. they found that students of the same ability were getting two A-level grades higher than the were 15 years before,

So that's settled. The controversy is about why Ministers, teachers and commentators continue to lie about this. The answer is simple. Our Government and schools are in the hands of people who believe equality is more important than education. As for the annual whining about how telling the truth will upset the students, who's the villain? The one who deludes them into thinking they have a good education, when they haven't. Or the one who points out that it if we do not fix this problem - soon - we are heading for national bankruptcy?

 

[lyra_k]

The other problem with that is that if I turn up for an interview with my C grade at A' level in Chemistry and a youngster turns up with an A grade (which if like someone else suggested is only equivalent to an O' level) how does the employer know who is the better candidate?

That's what I meant earlier about my 1989 'A' level grades. They weren't brilliant at the time, but they weren't bad at all - well above average, but in today's context they look pretty awful.

 

[trashpony]

That's what I meant earlier about my 1989 'A' level grades. They weren't brilliant at the time, but they weren't bad at all - well above average, but in today's context they look pretty awful.

They are good! For the time I got a B and two Cs and was well chuffed

But it's not just the grades - it's the number of the damn things. I've only got 3 (well 4 I guess after my BTEC) - nowadays you're a right thicko unless you have about 5!

 

[lyra_k]

But it's not just the grades - it's the number of the damn things. I've only got 3 (well 4 I guess after my BTEC) - nowadays you're a right thicko unless you have about 5!

they made everyone at my school take the highly academic General Studies, so almost everyone got 4. (one of my Ds was for General Studies, you have to be pretty goddamn incapable to get a D in GS ) I was taking 5 for awhile, but found that it just didn't give me enough sleeping-in-the-6th-form-common-room time, so I dropped one.

 

[ICB]

My Mum is a retired secondary school teacher, former head of three departments and still marks A Levels and GCSEs. She says it's a shocker how much the standards required to achieve a given grade have declined in both since she started teaching 15 years ago. The same obviously applies at Uni level where a degree now means almost nothing.

Fortunately our two eldest lads are both very keen on science where there's less room for fucking around and consequently a lot less people taking the exams than there were.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

At the high end you need to be predicted three As to get an interview. This isn't just Oxford and Cambridge, that's for at least two other universities that i know of.

An interview is a crap way to tell how smart a student is, the only way to tell is with a test. A levels don't fit that bill anymore.

 

[kyser_soze]

And honestly, while I did work fairly hard, I could have worked a lot harder, which is why my first year at uni was a complete shock - went from getting As and Bs to getting a third in one of my stats modules because I put in about the same amount of work!

Heh, my first year at Uni was about *this* much easier than my A-Levels - utterly breezed my first year and got a nasty shock at the start of the 2nd.

I don't know about smarter/easier but I do know that as someone who has had to employ post-A and fresh graduates that quality shines through - I've interview 2 people with 2:1s from similar unis - one was streets ahead of the other two who literally seemed that anything outside their study area or the pub was a whole new world...

I wonder if that bollocks about 'deferred success' has anything to do with this - you know, not wanting to knock the little loves self esteem with anything so unpleasant as having to deal with failure?

 

[lobster]

At the high end you need to be predicted three As to get an interview. This isn't just Oxford and Cambridge, that's for at least two other universities that i know of.

An interview is a crap way to tell how smart a student is, the only way to tell is with a test. A levels don't fit that bill anymore.

whats to stop any college/ 6th form submitting loads of students ? and damn well making sure there "clients" get the grade. When they do, the school gets congratulated for excellent teaching .............

 

[jæd]

whats to stop any college/ 6th form submitting loads of students ? and damn well making sure there "clients" get the grade. When they do, the school gets congratulated for excellent teaching .............

Well... They probably wouldn't make it past the first semester and the school submitting them would probably get a black mark against it in future...

 

[WouldBe]

The same obviously applies at Uni level where a degree now means almost nothing.

Not sure that's true. It might have been on that 'That will teach them' program but some uni spokesperson was saying that they were having to run crash courses to bring A' level students upto the level they should have been at.

 

[ICB]

Not sure that's true. It might have been on that 'That will teach them' program but some uni spokesperson was saying that they were having to run crash courses to bring A' level students upto the level they should have been at.

Yup, and Harrow old boys with straight As are barely literate.

Still think a lot of degrees are rubbish though, mind you I thought most people were seriously thick when I went in 1991 and I've met some right muppets with PhDs

 

[Dissident Junk]

Criterion-based marking is part of the reason for the increase in grades. When teaching GCSE and A level this year, I drummed it into my kids that they need to do X,Y and Z in order to get an A*. For a English GCSE paper: spelling, punctuation (use a semi-colon correctly), mention the key words 'metaphor', 'imagery' ('drawing a picture in the readers mind'), 'onomatopeia', 'alliteration', then quote in context. They all get copies of syllabus guidelines, mark schemes and everything. We practiced over and over until they answer the questions perfectly.

Of course, the result is intellectual garbage, you don't need to think or analyse, but that's how you get the grades for GCSE English. And that's what the parents (and the kids) want. It's not actually teaching, it's drilling.

It's the same on most language Cambridge courses. Even the FCE. For an article, you could write the most wonderful insight into recycling, but if it aint got a title or you don't use a rhetorical question, the grade will go down.

 

[Dissident Junk]

Just to add:

I think an MA is the new degree; a degree, the new A levels; A levels, the new O levels and O levels are pretty much the new 11 plus.

Not that this would explain why my grandmother, who left school at 14, has a postgraduate level standard of grammar usage.

 

[WouldBe]

Of course, the result is intellectual garbage, you don't need to think or analyse, but that's how you get the grades for GCSE English. And that's what the parents (and the kids) want. It's not actually teaching, it's drilling.

In which case you might as well give the qualifications away in coco pops, shut all the schools and save a fortune in tax payers money.

 

[kyser_soze]

(@ DJ) Blimey, nowt from you for an age, and then you're all over the place

Hope all is well...

 

[Bob_the_lost]

whats to stop any college/ 6th form submitting loads of students ? and damn well making sure there "clients" get the grade. When they do, the school gets congratulated for excellent teaching .............

Irrelevant, it wouldn't change if the unis had to wait for the results. The exams aren't that hard.

 

[lyra_k]

Not that this would explain why my grandmother, who left school at 14, has a postgraduate level standard of grammar usage.

good point. my mum (who went to grammar school but left at 16 with only 'O' levels) is the same - also with maths....she used to help my brother with his maths 'A' level homework, and also had quite discussions with him about the mathmatical parts of his civil engineering degrees (bachelors and masters).

 

[Dissident Junk]

(@ DJ) Blimey, nowt from you for an age, and then you're all over the place

Hope all is well...

(I got married two weeks ago).

 

[kyser_soze]

OMG!

Mail en route - you still on gmail?

 

[Dissident Junk]

Yep.

 

[kyser_soze]

Then YHM

 

[Agent Sparrow]

(I got married two weeks ago).

Ooooo, congrats!

 

[lobster]

(I got married two weeks ago).

congratulations

 

[the B]

Why should you have to do another exam to prove that you got a good A grade rather than a crap one though? Surely that means the A levels themselves aren't actually doing the job they're supposed to do. Don't you think that's a rubbish system? What a bloody waste of everyone's time!

And yes - of course science subjects are to a degree self-selecting - but a 30% A grade rate is extraordinarily high. The difference now is that most of examinees get As in science, whereas when I was at school it was about 5% (possibly higher for maths).

The system still allows people who are very clever to show it. Having met the only two people in the country who have 10 A grade A levels (and working with one with them at the moment), I can safely say, that them picking up those 10 A grades is representative of how intelligent they are.

As a matter of interest are degree results also increasing or are they staying stable?

I remember when I got my grades being a bit defensive about it because you don't obviously like being told that the main reason you've done well is because they're getting easier, but tbh I'm sure my A-levels were different to the ones sat 10 years before, and likewise are different to the ones set this year 9 years later. Something surely must be up though.

I do remember feeling that in comparison to degree level, A-level students are completely spoon fed.

Don't know if people should retake at A-level unless they've got a bloody good reason btw (i.e. illness, crisis etc)

Degree results have improved slightly. There's no doubt that A levels have been the subject of much more targetted teaching, that the increased use of coursework has led to some cheating and that there is grade inflation.

That doesn't explain how you can get a C grade at GCSE with only a 16% score.

It does. The exam is harder than the one done in the past because that one was for everyone. It's an exam people can expect to do badly in.

 

[the B]

I wouldn't say that being the 3rd most popular subject means that 'so few students' are taking it - though I do take your point ref psychology (it is no 4 btw...)

Lot of those sitting are international...

btw i did my maths A-level back in 1999 & we used an old O-Level book to cover most of the pure maths content - if it was easy back then I'd hate to think what it is like now - standards have definately slipped in mathematics - 17-18 year olds studying material that used to be covered by 16 year olds a few decades ago - how is that not a case of standards slipping.

The further mathematics paper exists for a reason.

 

[the B]

Sean, a close friend of mine who took his exams about 7 years ago had his entire Physics A Level taught to him from an old O-Level textbook. I mean, the whole thing. He got an A as well. Up until recently I tutored A Level physics and a lot of topics weren't even on a par with the Irish Leaving Certificate in difficulty (Higher level Leaving Cert. Physics is supposed to be to a standard that is 2/3 of an A Level). Could you give us some examples illustrating why you think the difficulty hasn't changed, because in my experience it certainly seems to have done so?

On average, in Ireland, less than 5% of candidates get the top grade in any given higher level paper (a similar percentage of young people take higher papers in Ireland as take A levels in the UK). You also have to do at least 6 subjects for university entry, not 3. The proportion getting top grades (over 90%) in 6 subjects is about 0.3%. Why not introduce a similar grading system here? 24% getting an A grade in any given subject and 8% getting 3 As is ridiculous in comparison. 8% versus 0.3%? Really...

Take more A levels!!!

 

[the B]

to those who know - is getting a bachelors degree in some subjects becoming almost as impossible to fail as 'A' levels?

Given that still something like 20% of students at Oxbridge are failing to get a 2.1 or better, doesn't seem like it.

 

[trashpony]

The system still allows people who are very clever to show it. Having met the only two people in the country who have 10 A grade A levels (and working with one with them at the moment), I can safely say, that them picking up those 10 A grades is representative of how intelligent they are.

I'm sure it is

Do you know if all schools offer ten A levels though?

 

[the B]

I'm sure it is

Do you know if all schools offer ten A levels though?

You can sit them privately if you want to. The number who get 5 A grades is about 0.1%.