22nd Sept - DHFC v Hampton & Richmond

[bringbackelmo]

Last night was my first game this season (well, first league game). Performance was pretty average, who was the number 4? Thought he was terrible, he seemed to be operating as the midfield 'lynchpin' but his passing was terrible all night and towards the end it seemed like even the rest of the players had clocked it and were trying to avoid giving him the ball (although that may well have been my imagination).

 

[Taper]

Your dog peeled a banana? Pics (or at least a detailed explanation) or it didn't happen.

Picture here. I have a witness too.

 

[Fingers]

 

[Joe K]

I don't know about the zany antics but I agree the atmosphere isn't quite what it was a year or two back. Personally I think that a lot of the people who've come post-Guardian/Vice articles are diluting the atmosphere rather than adding to it, if I'm honest. Standing next to another bunch of very posh lads (and there seem to be a new lot every home game) trying to get a chant of 'you fat bastard' going and congratulating themselves for being at the football was really irritating me last night.

But then I'm well aware of the irony of me as a middle class, going regularly for about three and a half years new-veaux saying that, and I'm not about to propose policing who's welcome, so what can you do.

The point, I think, is not about class (which is a reliably contentious issue on here), but about whether you come to football because you have some form of affinity with it, which is great, because you want to see what it's like on its own terms, which is also great, because your mates do and they dragged you along, which is also completely alright, or because you think football and football culture are somehow funny and you'll go along to play at being (to recall the vintage Moneypenny sketch) 'one of the little people' for the evening, which is a dickish thing to do. I notice at home games these days - or last season, to tell the truth, as I haven't been to CH in 15-16 - that there is always a knot of smaller groups behind the goal, particularly in the second half, who seem to be smirking through the match in a way which suggests it's all beneath them. If I look at pictures from those games, the area dead centre on the terrace is always full of people I've never seen before, which I think is really strange. You don't get it so much at away games but I think they've sort of fractured the overall feel a bit and this carries over to when we're on our travels.

Another thing, which I'm going to get a load of shit for saying, probably, but I might as well anyway, is that there's a tendency now to make an institution of anything that ever gets sung, so everything that happens once has to happen for the rest of eternity. Yeah, football crowds have in-jokes, but usually only a couple. Now it seems that if something funny happens it goes in the songbook forever, whereas at other clubs it's more a case of 'remember the time we sang X because Y happened?' Stuff is funnier as a one-off - that's the beauty of improvisation. As it stands, I find the current antics all a bit rehearsed and de-energising.

 

[Joe K]

Picture here. I have a witness too.

Amazing. I want to meet your dog.

 

[PartisanDulwich]

I think because we have a significant group of politicos (myself included) we may tend to over analysis the response of our fan base (and new fans)

We seem to have a high level of revolving door supporters attending every other game etc, maybe because they come down with mates etc - as stated well elsewhere - what ever we are doing people seem to like it

That said Bromley have also pulled in lots of new fans - so you can do it by different ways

As for the singing etc, We seem to have only a few people leading the singing if they are missing or taking a day out - the singing doesn't seem to get going

The atmosphere at the Leatherhead game (again midweek) was very good and the best for a while.

But again as stated our performance on the pitch and style of football has a direct impact on the fans

Building support in the community is leading to new supporters, I remain confident they will help build the atmosphere over time

We must stop looking backwards to some golden age -

we need solutions and ideas

 

[editor]

Match 'report':

Dulwich Hamlet scrape a 3-3 draw with Hampton & Richmond in a drone-bothered encounter

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

Agree with pretty much all the comments above. I'm glad most people are saying it was fairly dire, because I was beginning to think I was being overly cynical.

I'm starting to have serious reservations over Carew. He's luxurious even for a luxury player. Essentially, all he seems to bring to the party is a deadly free kick from 25 yards out and the occasional goal. Totally agree with Taper. His performance was very poor yesterday. I lost count of the amount of passes he misplaced. I really can't remember the last time he took control of a game.

Thought Scannell was sub standard too, especially in the first half. I thought his goal papered over a very ineffective performance. Everytime we had possession he seemed static and gave us no outlet; Kevin James gave us no width and seemed to complicate matters and I'd agree that the game seemed to pass Waldren by - although I'm absolutely convinced he's not being played in the right position. How can someone go from being a top midfielder in the division above to being mediocre in the division below? Has he just suddenly become crap in the space of 5 months?

This is where the 'we've got injuries' argument has its limitations. We do have a lot of players out and I sympathise completely and I know it has a big effect, but I just feel that people like Carew and Scannell (and it's not just them), in our time of need, should be stepping up and showing their quality. But they're not.

And it doesn't end there. We're not fashioning clear cut chances. We're not posing problems for the opposition defences. It's bland and two dimensional. I looked at the 'Sexy Football' banner in the first half and couldn't help but feel a sense of irony. There's something fundamentally wrong at the moment, either with the tactics or the personnel we're deploying to implement those tactics.

There were positives though. Absolutely delighted to not only see Dean McDonald back but playing like a different player to the one we saw last season. Thought he made a world of difference when he came on. His quick feet, his vision, his sharp turns lit the pitch up for twenty minutes. Long may it continue and a pleasure to see him playing like he was when he was at the height of his powers. Willock seems to have a real poacher's instinct and gives us a real goal threat; Hibbert was bright again and it was nice to see Pinnock at centre half.

The thing that really pissed me off last night was how we went about attacking Hampton. For an entire season we put up with Kamara so we all know that he is, at very best, an average Ryman South right back. No exaggeration. Yet it took us 70 mins to get Murrell-Williamson one on one with him. Seriously, why was that not our plan of attack right from the off? Once Rhys started running at Kamara it was causing him all manner of problems. He was clueless. Have to say as well if Kamara is, according to some DHFC fans "a nice bloke", I'd hate to meet the bad ones. I didn't realise he was such a nasty player. For the entirety of the second half he was using Costa-esque tactics (shirt pulling, hands round RW-M's neck and face, kicking the ball away at free kicks) and the 'tackle' that wiped Rhys out late on was nothing less than dangerous. Rhys only had to get his stud caught and he would've shattered his ankle. Nasty piece of work and I'm glad he's been packed off.

On to Saturday, of course. But something has to change.

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

Well, for me it was all about the performance. It sapped my energy and my enthusiasm. I don't mind us being bad when we're energetically bad and the players at least look bothered.

I think this is a really interesting point actually and something that deserves serious attention. It occured to me last night, that given the amount of people behind the goal, there really wasn't a lot of noise coming from behind the goal.

I agree with Joe and Editor: the pockets of random day-trippers doesn't help, but equally the football is so uninspiring, you don't really feel particularly motivated to swing on tyres and vehemently beat your chest for the cause. I stopped going behind the goal last season when we persisted with playing without a bloody striker, because frankly the events on the pitch made singing feel both pointless and hopeless. I've had trouble getting friends back after their 2nd or 3rd games, just because they aren't impressed with the football.

But I think there's something else at work and I've been sitting on this since early last season: there's little to no rapport between players and fans. I can't get excited about singing about Carew, Clunis or any of the others, because they dont seem to give a shit. I thought it was particularly noticable when Waldren came over to celebrate behind the goal when he scored v Burgess Hill. The last time a player did that when I was there was when Vidal scored v Tonbridge and before that when Hamici scored in the last minute v Margate. Anyone who was there I'm sure will testify that when Hamici jumped into the crowd the atmosphere was at feverpitch. That was a year ago. In contrast, when Staines scored against us the other week, their players bounded over to the collection of fans behind the goal. I just think the players can come across as quite aloof at times, bordering on disregard. They say the singing helps, but we never see any real evidence of that. Half-arsed claps at the end of the game don't really inspire you to come back with a rousing chorus of 'Loi, loi, loi' next Saturday. When I think back to when I was a kid, Craig Edwards used to make the players shake the fans hands at the end of every away game. That's a very extreme example and I don't expect that now, but I remember it had a real effect on me. No matter how badly we played, I felt part of it and I felt appreciated and I'd turn up with the same gusto wherever we went. Perhaps I'm being overly-sensitive, but I think the lack of relationship between players and fans, makes a difference. It certainly does for me. And it's a problem that can be so easily fixed.

 

[bringbackelmo]

I think this is a really interesting point actually and something that deserves serious attention. It occured to me last night, that given the amount of people behind the goal, there really wasn't a lot of noise coming from behind the goal.

I agree with Joe and Editor: the pockets of random day-trippers doesn't help, but equally the football is so uninspiring, you don't really feel particularly motivated to swing on tyres and vehemently beat your chest for the cause. I stopped going behind the goal last season when we persisted with playing without a bloody striker, because frankly the events on the pitch made singing feel both pointless and hopeless. I've had trouble getting friends back after their 2nd or 3rd games, just because they aren't impressed with the football.

But I think there's something else at work and I've been sitting on this since early last season: there's little to no rapport between players and fans. I can't get excited about singing about Carew, Clunis or any of the others, because they dont seem to give a shit. I thought it was particularly noticable when Waldren came over to celebrate behind the goal when he scored v Burgess Hill. The last time a player did that when I was there was when Vidal scored v Tonbridge and before that when Hamici scored in the last minute v Margate. Anyone who was there I'm sure will testify that when Hamici jumped into the crowd the atmosphere was at feverpitch. That was a year ago. In contrast, when Staines scored against us the other week, their players bounded over to the collection of fans behind the goal. I just think the players can come across as quite aloof at times, bordering on disregard. They say the singing helps, but we never see any real evidence of that. Half-arsed claps at the end of the game don't really inspire you to come back with a rousing chorus of 'Loi, loi, loi' next Saturday. When I think back to when I was a kid, Craig Edwards used to make the players shake the fans hands at the end of every away game. That's a very extreme example and I don't expect that now, but I remember it had a real effect on me. No matter how badly we played, I felt part of it and I felt appreciated and I'd turn up with the same gusto wherever we went. Perhaps I'm being overly-sensitive, but I think the lack of relationship between players and fans, makes a difference. It certainly does for me. And it's a problem that can be so easily fixed.

This is an interesting post - I was at the Margate game and the atmosphere when Hamici scored was incredible. I find it odd that there should be a disconnect between fans and players when the crowds at Champion Hill are so big. These guys are unlikely to play in front of such big crowds elsewhere - even Vidal having moved on to Welling is playing at a much higher level but in front of much smaller crowds. It seems to me that unless they jump up a few grades they aren't going to playing in front of fans like Dulwich have.

As a comparison - at Hereford we're now playing in Step 5 (Midland Premier) but still drawing in decent crowds (averaging well over 2000 this season so far). At the beginning of the season we signed two lads from Didcot who scored 70 goals between them last season at the step above. They cited the opportunity to play in front of decent crowds as motivation and they've massively embraced it (the one lad - John Mills - has scored 14 in 10 so far and seems to reslish celebrating with the fans). It makes for a much better atmosphere all around and of course the fans respond to players that at least appear to want to play for the shirt.

 

[Christian Burt]

I'm as guilty as Joe for missing games this season: mostly as I'm currently obsessed with NFL (I blog for the Washington Redskins on www.unclesamsports.com) and nothing else is pulling me in, and secondly I've often been working away weekends.

Atmosphere: essentially I've been shifting to the stands for a while. Behind the goal is a haven of wackiness at times, or even worse Banter Lads on a jolly. No interest in that at all. An away can be boss, especially with an old skool feel about it - and by that I don't mean Old Skool like going for 100 years, I mean you know that you aren't going for "fun" (I hate football being fun. Sex is fun, a gig is fun, football isn't fun), you are going to be slightly unhinged, but at the same time in charge of emotions. There's a lot more obvious twat behavior nowadays.

Football: I think we forget Gavin isn't that experienced - only one other club? It's a different dynamic now: signings if contracted need to be good, and we haven't done that so well? I still have hope that DHFC can do well this season, but it may take some ballsy decisions (i.e. Carew or Waldren only) to go forward. I miss a lot of the RS1 players, who seemed really integrated with us all.
Murrell-Williamson: I'd play him upfront.

 

[editor]

I can't imagine being anywhere else but behind the goal because I'm there for the singing and the silliness as much as the game, but the point about the seemingly widening gulf between the players and the supporters is moot.

Moot. I like that word.

 

[StephenMac]

I hadn't consciously thought about the connection, or otherwise, between the players and fans before but now it's been mentioned I think there probably is something in what's being said. Margate at home last year was my first game so I probably thought the Hamici goal and reaction was the norm. Other than that though I only really remember anything similar last season in/after the away match against the same opposition. Other than that there was Waldren's celebration when he scored last weekend and Willock's comically premature crowd interaction after winning the pen at Hendon.
I'm not convinced though that it's about arrogance or indifference - most of them seem friendly enough and up for a chat after a game if approached.
Curious business.

 

[StephenMac]

I can't imagine being anywhere else but behind the goal because I'm there for the singing and the silliness as much as the game, but the point about the seemingly widening gulf between the players and the supporters is moot.

Moot. I like that word.

It is a good word. Conjures up an image of a cow stuck in a lake surrounding a castle.

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

I hadn't consciously thought about the connection, or otherwise, between the players and fans before but now it's been mentioned I think there probably is something in what's being said. Margate at home last year was my first game so I probably thought the Hamici goal and reaction was the norm. Other than that though I only really remember anything similar last season in/after the away match against the same opposition. Other than that there was Waldren's celebration when he scored last weekend and Willock's comically premature crowd interaction after winning the pen at Hendon.
I'm not convinced though that it's about arrogance or indifference - most of them seem friendly enough and up for a chat after a game if approached.
Curious business.

Agreed. I wouldn't go as far as to call it arrogance, but I think indifference is much closer to the mark. I think it's somewhere between disregard and thoughtlessness, really. Thats just it: they seem alright for a chat (I've talked to Mascoll, Campbell, Wilson, McDonald etc) but when it comes to giving something back for the support that, frankly, they'd struggle to get anywhere else in the league, they're nowhere in sight. You almost feel like packing them off to Chipstead or Thamesmead for a game to remind them what it's like to play in front of a crowd of 87.

I find it disappointing that no one from the management has realised that more engagememt with the fans would have a substantial, positive effect. It's not just a valueless gesture that keeps the fans happy. Mourinho, for example, (rightly or wrongly) creates a siege mentality at Chelsea that has a profound impact, especially when they play at Stamford Bridge. I don't see why we can't create a similar unity. It would just take a bit of awareness.

 

[sleaterkinney]

It's a bit difficult to get involved with the players when they move on fairly quickly.

 

[all to nah]

A hopper from Bremen visited Champion Hill last Tuesday - he had also been to the Altona 93 away shirt debut in August!

 

[Blitzwalker]

Picture here. I have a witness too.

I can indeed vouch for Doris's banana peeling and eating exploits. Amazing to behold!

 

[PartisanDulwich]

The players don't always seem to come over and thank the fans at the end of the game this season (exception of Phil Wilson)

One thing noticeable at Clapton FC is the players seem very close to the fans, even joining in songs at the end of the game (maybe because its a much lower league ...but still)

I can understand a level of professional distance between fans and players - but would be nice if now and again it felt two way, even Ronaldo has done his bit for the Refugees (even if this his publicists advising him - but genuinely believes he actually cares on this issue)

I thought one of the attractions of signing for Dulwich Hamlet was playing in front of 1,000 gate,

Finally, I understand some of the drivers for turnover in players, but still cannot get use to the revolving door in players

 

[toby kempton]

and are mentioned on the BBC London news
if anyone wants to watch it on the BBC i player
until tomorrow 7:00 pm
it is 17 minutes into the video

 

[PartisanDulwich]

The Offside Rule Podcast

audioBoom / TheOffsideRule

 

[SDE]

I think a key difference with those Margate games - and the atmos was wonderful both home and away - is that we were the underdog. It stirs us up, fans and players alike, and creates a bond. Much like the games v Maidstone, Cup game at Hemel to some extent. Whereas every team we play this season we're half-expected to turnover 3-0 because we have more financial clout (I think) and a much larger fan base. And we have plenty of players who have stepped down a level or more and likely to be on decent wages (again, I think) rather than a bunch of kids who've come up through Aspire. It creates a very different dynamic and sets different expectations. That's why you see a good connection with away players and fans from 'smaller' clubs at CH. It ups their passion for the game to take on the supposed big dogs on their own patch.

 

[StephenMac]

Maybe someone on the playing or coaching staff reads Urban.

 

[EDC]

Maybe someone on the playing or coaching staff reads Urban.

I'm sure they do.

 

[StephenMac]

I'm sure they do.

Well the players came to the crowd when we equalised today. Maybe that was an underdog thing like SDE says though.

 

[Pink Panther]

Standing next to another bunch of very posh lads (and there seem to be a new lot every home game) trying to get a chant of 'you fat bastard' going and congratulating themselves for being at the football was really irritating me last night.

Essentially not much different to the sort of working class yobs who normally attach themselves to successful football teams, and goad the away fans or abuse the opposition players. We're probably lucky to have such a small proportion of people like this.