2001 odyssey

[Stigmata]

Yeah, but the crits of 2D characters and badly written women (Women? In space and sci-fi? Whatever next!!! Have them sent to my kitchen!) pretty much apply to all classical sci-fi - Asimov is exactly the same. High concept, crap literature.

I remember reading an Asimov editorial where he profusely apologised for his lack of decent female characters- his excuse was he didn't know many women when he was at his productive peak.

 

[D'wards]

I remember reading an Asimov editorial where he profusely apologised for his lack of decent female characters- his excuse was he didn't know many women when he was at his productive peak.

Talk about playing for your audience!

 

[DexterTCN]

Well come on...'well developed' female characters in sci-fi only ever meant one thing, and it wasn't do do with the story.

 

[kyser_soze]

Dismissing him because he does not write female characters is ridiculous.

Go back and read what I said cos I didn't just make the complaint about female characters - I find most of the writing in the 'Golden Age' of sci-fi pretty much character free, with the stories and characters there merely as props to whatever conceit about science/society the author was concerned with - this is why Dune is such an amazing series because it's a well written story as well as amazing high-concept sci-fi. As Crispy said, I'd sooner read a precis of the ideas and how they're explored than wade through acres of wooden text - in cases like Foundation it's often a better way to appreciate them to IMO.

And to say this era of sci-fi was 'apolitical' is bunk - if anything an apolitical novel was the rarity, not the norm in serious sci-fi during the post-war period.

 

[Crispy]

I found the books written with Gentry Lee more than a bit dodgy - the crap fantasy of shagging young girls for procreation was frankly bizarre. Rama (as in the first one) was much better imo, the concept was far better and the story more open to interpretation (which Clarke's better work tends to be).

Shit yeah, I forgot about that. Shows how long it's been since I read them! Definitely a bit sus...

 

[Cid]

Go back and read what I said cos I didn't just make the complaint about female characters - I find most of the writing in the 'Golden Age' of sci-fi pretty much character free, with the stories and characters there merely as props to whatever conceit about science/society the author was concerned with - this is why Dune is such an amazing series because it's a well written story as well as amazing high-concept sci-fi. As Crispy said, I'd sooner read a precis of the ideas and how they're explored than wade through acres of wooden text - in cases like Foundation it's often a better way to appreciate them to IMO.

And to say this era of sci-fi was 'apolitical' is bunk - if anything an apolitical novel was the rarity, not the norm in serious sci-fi during the post-war period.

You do have something of a point (although I think character development in 2001 is better than most). This is where Alfred Bester comes in, he was never a scientist (wrote travel literature for the most part iirc) and - while he still uses some great concepts - seems to have a much better understanding of the literary techniques needed to build up an interesting set of characters. His ideas are there as a means of illustrating human nature, in his short stories he has some fantastic plot devices to explore the nature of self, and these make there way into his novels. His magnum opus, Tiger Tiger/The stars my destination is entirely character driven - ok, so you could say that it still appears mysoginistic at times, but in this case that's simply because Gully Foyle is a debauched madman (and you engage with him all the more because of it). His scientific understanding is nowhere near as in-depth as Clarke/Asimov, but he's far better at creating an engaging narrative. Vonnegut is another good one, haven't read that much of his stuff though.

 

[Reno]

Different authors have different strengths and the same goes for science fiction. It's true that Clarke is more interested in big scientific concepts than character, but I still loved them. Rendezvous With Rama was one of the first non-children's books I read and I absolutely loved it. I thought it was one of the greatest adventure stories I ever read. It's one of those books which I'd like to see a good film adaptation of, i think it could be spectacular. I only just about managed to get through the first of the Gentry Lee sequels. As others have said it was pretty terrible and it replaced the inoffensive non-characters of the original with badly written characters.

 

[Crispy]

There's a Rama movie stuck in development hell:

http://www.rendezvouswithrama.com/

Can't check that at work - no Flash, but it was looking pretty ropey last time I checked

 

[Reno]

There's a Rama movie stuck in development hell:

http://www.rendezvouswithrama.com/

Can't check that at work - no Flash, but it was looking pretty ropey last time I checked

It just takes you straight to Morgan Freeman's production company with no mention of Rama...

He's been trying to get this off the ground for years now and at some point David Fincher was involved to direct, but then they said they were going to make it as an animated film with CG characters, which would be pretty awful. I suppose they are having problems with the budget, which would have to be substantial and with the fact that the book doesn't have much of a story and there is no peril or real thread, which would be considered essential in a modern Hollywood film.

 

[vogonity]

A couple of years ago there was a cleaned up version re-released and it played at the Mayfair Curzon for a whiles and I saw it there...until you've seen it on a full size cinema screen you really don't get how utterly beautiful it is as a film.

Absolutely: I really enjoyed this re-release at the Curzon, too. Along with the imagery there was also the pristine sound... I remember in the revolving Hilton sequence a woman's voice on the p.a. intoned that, "a woman's pink cashmere cardigan has been left in the reception area," or something like that. Cue an entire cinema full of people looking around in the direction of the voice!

A beautiful film and an extraordinary experience.