1970s Cardiff City chants - what's your team's?

[editor]

Mind you, there is St Ninian's Isle. Maybe PM is referring to that?

http://www.urban75.org/cardiff/isle.html

 

[phildwyer]

Mind you, there is St Ninian's Isle. Maybe PM is referring to that?

http://www.urban75.org/cardiff/isle.html

Unfortunately, St. Ninian's Isle will see Priemership football before Ninian Park.

 

[Wowbagger]

i suppose the grauniad fell hook line and sinker for it too.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Distribution/Redirect_Artifact/0,4678,0-613995,00.html

Well, they've got a couple of Sylvain Wiltord songs up there that I've never heard anyone singing...but I do recognise one of them (the Hi-Ho Silver Lining one) from "Chants Would Be A Fine Thing" and three or four places on the internet claiming to be a football chant repository. Dunno what they're on about with the Lauren one either. Never seen or heard that one anywhere.

 

[tangerinedream]

Well, they've got a couple of Sylvain Wiltord songs up there that I've never heard anyone singing...but I do recognise one of them (the Hi-Ho Silver Lining one) from "Chants Would Be A Fine Thing" and three or four places on the internet claiming to be a football chant repository. Dunno what they're on about with the Lauren one either. Never seen or heard that one anywhere.

I read a book on united with some guy that writes chants for them ffs.
I never trust any of these 'chant archives' - half of them are made up. It makes me laugh when you look at morgue like atmosphere in some Prem grounds and they claim to have about 5 songs for each player. They don't count if you make em up yrself and sing em on yr own at home..... or even force a friend to join in. A chant is only a chant when it's been taken up by a crowd.

Though I have to say the salmon one is too wierd to be made up, it has to be real..., Cardiff do the Ayatollah ffs, and West Brom 'boing boing' - why can't Brum sing about tinned salmon?

The teams I feel sorry for is when you look at the chants lists and the best they can do is.
MR MANAGERS SOMETHING ARMY... and you think - how long have you been in the league, and that is the best you can offer?

 

[phildwyer]

Cardiff do the Ayatollah ffs

A chant, or rather ritual, borne out of true sorrow. The Ayatollah Khomeni died during one of City's crappest eras and, like most people, we watched the Iranians at the funeral beating themselves over the head to express their grief. It seemed the most appropriate response to our team's performance. Later, it was subversively transformed into a rite of celebration, and today we delight in making even former players "do the Ayatollah" when they visit Ninain Park with their new teams. They almost always do it, too.

 

[phildwyer]

Cardiff do the Ayatollah ffs

Also, _The Guardian_ (which Pickman's Model is pleased to cite as an authority on terrace culture), recently printed an article which claimed that the "Ayatollah" was some kind of sinister Islamic code between Sam Hamman and a Cardiff City crew known as "Intifada." Which was completely made-up bollocks. Although, I was at Ninian Park a few days after 9/11, and the stewards on the way in were telling us "don't do the Ayatollah today," so who knows?

 

[ernestolynch]

Also, _The Guardian_ (which Pickman's Model is pleased to cite as an authority on terrace culture), recently printed an article which claimed that the "Ayatollah" was some kind of sinister Islamic code between Sam Hamman and a Cardiff City crew known as "Intifada." Which was completely made-up bollocks. Although, I was at Ninian Park a few days after 9/11, and the stewards on the way in were telling us "don't do the Ayatollah today," so who knows?

After you Zulu gaff earlier, you've no room to talk.

 

[RubberBuccaneer]

Also, _The Guardian_ (which Pickman's Model is pleased to cite as an authority on terrace culture), recently printed an article which claimed that the "Ayatollah" was some kind of sinister Islamic code between Sam Hamman and a Cardiff City crew known as "Intifada." Which was completely made-up bollocks. Although, I was at Ninian Park a few days after 9/11, and the stewards on the way in were telling us "don't do the Ayatollah today," so who knows?

It was Lincoln away, and it was one of many stupid chants that only happen when you're watching crap. It was started by Eric the Red, who later got arrested at a Swansea game for leading the chant, only for a Cardiff copper to appeal to his Swansea counterpart ' you can'y arrest him he's the Ayatollah'.

The chant's getting a bit dull now tho', but i got to laugh at the Intifada thing as it's Guardian chinese whispers, There was a brilliant CCFC fanzine called Intifada in the 80's. Well worth getting if you see it somewhere.

BTW Sams a Christian from the Lebanon.

 

[editor]

There was a brilliant CCFC fanzine called Intifada in the 80's. Well worth getting if you see it somewhere.

Intifada was a class 'zine.

Sloppy, sensationalist journalism seems to comes easy to some writers when writing about Cardiff. In 1998, the Guardian's Martin Thorpe wrote:

"A large number of the 3,000 or so Cardiff contingent massed behind one goal also betrayed their prejudices with frequent chants of 'You black bastard' directed at the Reading striker Carl Asaba".

It seems that for all his years in the game, Thorpe hadn't worked out that Cardiff fans traditionally taunt any ex-Swansea player as a 'Jack Bastard' and had cluelessly jumped to the conclusion that they were racially abusing one of Reading's black players.

Interestingly, the ex-Swansea player, Bowen, isn't even black, so even Thorpe must have thought it rather odd that the racist taunts only happened when a white man had the ball.

The Guardian eventually ran a teensy weensy apology, but no doubt the damage was already done by then.

 

[1927]

today we delight in making even former players "do the Ayatollah" when they visit Ninain Park with their new teams. They almost always do it, too.

A couple of seasons ago a group of us went up to the delightful Ochilview Park,home of the mighty Stenhousemuir,and right next door to the MacGownas Highland Toffee factory,to watch Stennie play Forfar Athletic. Plaing right back for Forfar was Scott MacCulloch who had spent sometime at Ninain park the previous season.we spent the entire gaming reqwuesting that Scot "did the Ayatollah" and at the end of the game were photographed with him performing said ritual much to the amusement of both home and away fans!!Was a pic on the Forfar Footy Mad site for a while but cant find a link right now!

 

[brixtonvilla]

This whole salmon thing is a balatant wind-up. Read Ernesto's post again. A Zulu? At University? Pull the other one...

 

[Pickman's model]

The fact that you would cite the Guardian as an authority on working class culture speaks volumes. Which reminds me, the most common chant at Cardiff is "you dirty English bastard."

i am not citing it as an authority on working class culture, as it blatantly isn't.

i am citing it as an authority on footy chants as the other sites the chant appears on would also likely be dismissed by you as as dodgy as my original source - in the same way that editor (rightly) dismisses a lot of conspiraloon sites as unreliable, i had hoped that something like the grauniad might at least have the fucking chant right, and prove it extant.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's NINIAN Park, for fuck's sake!


And it's clear you haven't the slightest clue about football in the 70s.

so an errant 's' creeps into a couple of posts! so fucking what?

as so often, you reveal a degree of hypocrisy by attacking the form of my post rather than the substantive point i'm making, a trait you affect to deplore in others.

and, as i've observed above, your choice of favoured chants indicates less a passion for the actual game than for events which went on around the game. some of us are handicapped by our youth & unable to recollect in such lurid detail the bloodthirsty chants you took such peaceful pleasure in bawling across ninian park, and doubtless other grounds on your travels.

 

[editor]

i am citing it as an authority on footy chants as the other sites the chant appears on would also likely be dismissed by you as as dodgy as my original source - in the same way that editor (rightly) dismisses a lot of conspiraloon sites as unreliable, i had hoped that something like the grauniad might at least have the fucking chant right, and prove it extant.

The Guardian have one or two decent writers, but the paper has never been particularly renown for its football coverage ( see my example of them getting it hopelessly wrong above).

The Telegraph, on the other hand, has always been better for sport, as have the Independent (at times).

For the record, I've never, ever heard this 'salmon' chant and I've been to matches at Birmingham. Maybe it's a niche thing.

 

[editor]

and, as i've observed above, your choice of favoured chants indicates less a passion for the actual game than for events which went on around the game. some of us are handicapped by our youth & unable to recollect in such lurid detail the bloodthirsty chants you took such peaceful pleasure in bawling across ninian park, and doubtless other grounds on your travels.

They're not my 'favoured chants'. They're examples of popular football chants from the 1970s, just like the title of the thread says.

And by persistently and spectacularly missing the point, you continue to reveal your deep ignorance of football in the 1970s.

Singing violent songs was part of the 70s terrace culture and for a kid it was fun to join in - but that doesn't add up to a tacit endorsement of violence. Daft songs about flick knives were generally seen as a laugh anyway.

Next you'll be telling me that kids who go on killing rampages in Doom are somehow endorsing random violence in real life.

 

[Pickman's model]

They're not my 'favoured chants'. They're examples of popular football chants from the 1970s, just like the title of the thread says.

And by persistently and spectacularly missing the point, you continue to reveal your deep ignorance of football in the 1970s.

Singing violent songs was part of the 70s terrace culture and for a kid it was fun to join in - but that doesn't add up to a tacit endorsement of violence. Daft songs about flick knives were generally seen as a laugh anyway.

i feel that the insistence that it was all just a laugh and no harm was meant is somewhat undermined by cardiff's perennial challenging for being top of the hooligan league. perhaps now, though, there's a more middle class sort of hoolie replacing the hardcore working class hoolie of the 70s.

The Inside Story of Britain's Most Violent Hooligan Gang; The Cardiff Soul Crew are recognised by police intelligence officers as the most violent football hooligan gang currently active in Britain. Their 400-plus members have been involved in mass disorder at matches for more than twenty-five years. Yet they have largely escaped the notoriety of their English counterparts - until now. Two men closely involved with the gang tell its history from its origins through to the present day: their leaders, their fashions, how they organise and who they fight. Soul Crew relates how an infamous clash with Manchester United's Red Army in the mid-Seventies was the impetus for the formation of the mob.

http://www.hooligansfootball.homestead.com/featuredbook.html

yeh, it was nice & peaceful @ ninian pk in the era to which you refer.

 

[phildwyer]

The Guardian have one or two decent writers, but the paper has never been particularly renown for its football coverage ( see my example of them getting it hopelessly wrong above).

A couple of years ago the Guardian did a profile of Danny Abse, the Welsh poet who wrote "The Game," a famous ode to Ninian Park. The writer went on and on about the "paradox" that such a cultured, sensitive man could support such a horrid, hoolie-ridden team, he seemed to find it incredible that Abse attended City games. I suppose if it had been Man U no-one would have been surprised.

 

[phildwyer]

This whole salmon thing is a balatant wind-up. Read Ernesto's post again. A Zulu? At University? Pull the other one...

In fact there are many Zulus at university. Although I agree that the picture of Ernesto and his Zulu friends having a knees-up to the tune of "Any Old Iron" is deeply implausible.

 

[editor]

yeh, it was nice & peaceful @ ninian pk in the era to which you refer.

I'd be delighted if you might point me to a single post in this thread where I've claimed that it was "nice & peaceful @ ninian pk" during the 1970s because it was aynthing but.

Just the one quote will do nicely.

Seeing as you clearly haven't a clue about terrace culture in the 1970s why do you persist in trying to tell me what I experienced first hand?

 

[phildwyer]

perhaps now, though, there's a more middle class sort of hoolie replacing the hardcore working class hoolie of the 70s.

This is yet another myth put about by journalists desperate for a new angle and totally ignorant of football. Ever since the early 80's they've been writing about how all the hoolies are now stockbrokers and investment bankers. Its a load of bollocks, as anyone who goes to games would know.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is yet another myth put about by journalists desperate for a new angle and totally ignorant of football. Ever since the early 80's they've been writing about how all the hoolies are now stockbrokers and investment bankers. Its a load of bollocks, as anyone who goes to games would know.

you didn't notice the qualification at the start of the sentence. i didn't say "yeh, you only get middle class hoolies these days", did i?

please stop trying to twist my words, it does you no credit.

 

[Onket]

This is yet another myth put about by journalists desperate for a new angle and totally ignorant of football. Ever since the early 80's they've been writing about how all the hoolies are now stockbrokers and investment bankers. Its a load of bollocks, as anyone who goes to games would know.

I think what they are actually saying is that hooligans now include some people who do those jobs, or other similar ones, which can't really be argued with.

 

[editor]

you didn't notice the qualification at the start of the sentence. i didn't say "yeh, you only get middle class hoolies these days", did i?

Have you actually read the Soul Crew book you've referred to, PM?

 

[Pickman's model]

Have you actually read the Soul Crew book you're referring to, PM?

no, the information i desired was contained in the review.

i have no idea whether the book's good or bad but that has no relevance to the quote i posted. unless you know better and can demonstrate that the claims in the review are a load of bollocks.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd be delighted if you might point me to a single post in this thread where I've claimed that it was "nice & peaceful @ ninian pk" during the 1970s because it was aynthing but.

Just the one quote will do nicely.

Seeing as you clearly haven't a clue about terrace culture in the 1970s why do you persist in trying to tell me what I experienced first hand?

so you never got caught up in the vicious violence of the age, glorified in the chants you so merrily (and peacefully) sang? the aura of violence, the being near it on the periphery rather than wholeheartedly joining in, was the thrill?

 

[editor]

i have no idea whether the book's good or bad but that has no relevance to the quote i posted. unless you know better and can demonstrate that the claims in the review are a load of bollocks.

As far as I'm concerned, I've already ably demonstrated that you haven't got a fucking clue about 1970s terrace culture and - to be honest - I've no idea what you're doing on this thread.

You weren't there at the time, you haven't researched the subject and I'm getting bored correcting your ill-informed cartoon version of events.

But if you think reading a short description of a highly partisan book on a hoolie website makes you some kind of expert on something you've never personally experienced you're wrong.

I was there. I grew up in that culture.

And you haven't even read a book about it!

 

[1927]

no, the information i desired was contained in the review.

i have no idea whether the book's good or bad but that has no relevance to the quote i posted. unless you know better and can demonstrate that the claims in the review are a load of bollocks.

Your quote is exactly that tho,a review,someone's opinion of what the book contained,someone who like you was not at Ninian at the time.tbh the Soul Crew book is regarded by many Bluebirds who were there as something of a work of fiction and people who i know who were at the incidents mentioned recall them differently and in fact claim that the writers were NOT even there on some occasions!

 

[Pickman's model]

As far as I'm concerned, I've already ably demonstrated that you haven't got a fucking clue about 1970s terrace culture and - to be honest - I've no idea what you're doing on this thread.

you have varied between attacking me for my alleged lack of knowledge of 1970s football, and it's only in your last few posts that you've shifted the goalposts.

You weren't there at the time, you haven't researched the subject and I'm getting bored correcting your ill-informed cartoon version of events.

there are many times you've posted stuff without having been at the site of the topick of discussion. i don't think that necessarily hinders one - and it certainly doesn't stop one holding a perfectly valid opinion. it's only at this late stage that you suggest that i should have fully referenced my posts, a suggestion which should have been made earlier in the thread if you were so concerned. if you're bored with correcting me, then don't bother any more - but your corrections seem to me to rather obscure than illuminate.

But if you think reading a short description of a highly partisan book on a hoolie website makes you some kind of expert on something you've never personally experienced you're wrong.

of course the bloody book's partisan! it appears to have been written by some of the people involved in the soul crew, so i'd be most disappointed if it weren't. but i wasn't talking about the book - let me correct your allegation - i was referring, as i made clear, to the information contained in the review. you aren't disputing that, so please put up now your objections to the statements in the review, if any.

and as for what i've experienced, you don't know owt about me and football hooliganism as i've never posted up (i don't believe i have, anyway) about my flirtation with the scene.

I was there. I grew up in that culture.

And you haven't even read a book about it!

no, i haven't read one specific book on the subject. you extrapolate that i haven't read any books on the subject, which is very different.

if past performance is anything to go by, this is where all the posts you disagree with disappear in another act of denial.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your quote is exactly that tho,a review,someone's opinion of what the book contained,someone who like you was not at Ninian at the time.tbh the Soul Crew book is regarded by many Bluebirds who were there as something of a work of fiction and people who i know who were at the incidents mentioned recall them differently and in fact claim that the writers were NOT even there on some occasions!

are you fuckwitted?

i said i neither knew nor cared about the quality of the book as i was only interested in the information in the review, which clearly states that the soul crew have been about since the late 70s, and the information there is not qualified with "as it says in the book" or "according to the authors".

now, either shut up about the book or post something rebutting the claims in the review.

 

[editor]

.... the aura of violence, the being near it on the periphery rather than wholeheartedly joining in, was the thrill?

Blimey. Is the penny finally beginning to drop?