130 dead in Baghdad market bomb

[Bernie Gunther]

See e.g. Seymour Hersh's latest on how the US is sponsoring Al Qaeda linked crazies to challenge Shiites who they don't like.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If you destroy the apparatus of the state, even if it was a rather shitty state, you are accountable for what happens next.

Particularly if you are for reasons of your own, trying to bring about sectarian conflicts in the resulting aftermath.

The sectarian conflict was already present. If you destroyed the british state, I don't think the people of Essex would go to war with the people of Sussex.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The sectarian conflict was already present. If you destroyed the british state, I don't think the people of Essex would go to war with the people of Sussex.

You've obviously never seen the high street of any UK town at 11.30 on a Friday night

 

[nino_savatte]

Then why did Saddam find it necessary to suppress the shiite religion in Iraq?

He did no such thing. Iraq was a secular state until it was invded by the US, who then projected the ethnic divisions of their own country onto Iraq.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

WHEN SADDAM HUSSEIN ASSUMED POWER in Baghdad in 1979, Iraq's Shi'ites had enjoyed a couple of decades of respite under leaders who allowed them some measure of equality with the Sunnis. Then came Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini's 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran. Fearing a similar uprising in Iraq, Saddam revived some old repressions and ordered the murder of Iraq's most popular ayatullah, Mohammed Bakr al-Sadr, uncle of Muqtada. Shi'ites made up a majority of those killed in Iraq's war with Iran, which lasted from 1980 to 1988, but after it ended they were once again shut out of most senior government and military positions. With the defeat of Saddam's army in the 1991 Gulf War, Shi'ites saw a chance to rise against the dictator. But they received no protection from the allied forces, and Saddam was able to smash the revolt. By some estimates, more than 300,000 Shi'ites were killed; many were buried in mass graves. For the rest of his reign, Saddam kept the Shi'ites firmly under his thumb. Several popular clerics were killed, including Muqtada's father. Saddam ordered the murder of Sunnis too, but there was a crucial difference. "When Saddam killed a Sunni, it was personal--because of something that person had done," says author Nasr. "But when it came to killing Shi'ites, he was indiscriminate. He didn't need a specific reason. Their being Shi'ite was enough."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1592849-2,00.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"Ayatollah Ali Khamenei blamed Saddam for al-Sadr's slaying, saying "the strangulation of Shi'ite Muslims in that country has reached a climax". After the 1979 Iranian revolution, more than 35,000 Shi'ites of Iranian origin were expelled from Iraq."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EB14Df02.html

 

[nino_savatte]

WHEN SADDAM HUSSEIN ASSUMED POWER in Baghdad in 1979, Iraq's Shi'ites had enjoyed a couple of decades of respite under leaders who allowed them some measure of equality with the Sunnis. Then came Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini's 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran. Fearing a similar uprising in Iraq, Saddam revived some old repressions and ordered the murder of Iraq's most popular ayatullah, Mohammed Bakr al-Sadr, uncle of Muqtada. Shi'ites made up a majority of those killed in Iraq's war with Iran, which lasted from 1980 to 1988, but after it ended they were once again shut out of most senior government and military positions. With the defeat of Saddam's army in the 1991 Gulf War, Shi'ites saw a chance to rise against the dictator. But they received no protection from the allied forces, and Saddam was able to smash the revolt. By some estimates, more than 300,000 Shi'ites were killed; many were buried in mass graves. For the rest of his reign, Saddam kept the Shi'ites firmly under his thumb. Several popular clerics were killed, including Muqtada's father. Saddam ordered the murder of Sunnis too, but there was a crucial difference. "When Saddam killed a Sunni, it was personal--because of something that person had done," says author Nasr. "But when it came to killing Shi'ites, he was indiscriminate. He didn't need a specific reason. Their being Shi'ite was enough."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1592849-2,00.html

When all else fails pull out a quote from Time magazine. You can't think for yourself - can you?

The Shi-ites mentioned here were Marsh Arabs. There is a bit of a difference.

 

[nino_savatte]

"Ayatollah Ali Khamenei blamed Saddam for al-Sadr's slaying, saying "the strangulation of Shi'ite Muslims in that country has reached a climax". After the 1979 Iranian revolution, more than 35,000 Shi'ites of Iranian origin were expelled from Iraq."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EB14Df02.html

Again, no input from you. This tells me that when it comes to a subject as complicated as this, you can't function without running to Google.

This has nothing at all to do with the alleged "mass slaughter of Shi'ites".

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Again, no input from you. This tells me that when it comes to a subject as complicated as this, you can't function without running to Google.

This has nothing at all to do with the alleged "mass slaughter of Shi'ites".

Who alleged that? I alleged a suppression of shi'ism by Saddam.

What better way to prove it than via quotes from people there?

 

[Yossarian]

No, but if you were to suddenly dismantle the British state overnight and not replace it with anything there’s a good chance some conflict might erupt in Northern Ireland, or there would have been a few years ago anyway.

Sunni/Shia conflict wasn’t inevitable in Iraq – Sunni and Shia live together relatively peacefully in other Middle Eastern countries.

 

[Yossarian]

Then why did Saddam find it necessary to suppress the shiite religion in Iraq?

Saddam also viciously repressed the more extreme Sunni Islamists, particularly when they showed any signs of posing a threat to his rule.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Saddam also viciously repressed the more extreme Sunni Islamists, particularly when they showed any signs of posing a threat to his rule.

As the quote said, he'd of course kill sunnis, but it was based on what they'd done. He'd kill shiites based on what they were; ie shiites.

 

[nino_savatte]

Who alleged that? I alleged a suppression of shi'ism by Saddam.

What better way to prove it than via quotes from people there?

You continue to ignore what I've said for the sake of a cheap point.

Of course there were also Shi'ite members of Ba'ath...or would you deny that? Your quote says this

35,000 Shi'ites of Iranian origin

"Iranian origin"? I take it you've heard of the Iran-Iraq War, non?

Google away.