ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It's certainly looking that way.
It's hard to keep stuff quiet with that many people. Be interesting to know exactly how they got the info though.
114 arrested on conspiracy charges over alleged plan to protest
- Thread starter In Bloom
- Start date
It's hard to keep stuff quiet with that many people. Be interesting to know exactly how they got the info though.
agreed in context, but think about it for a moment only a few need to know, get them to said loaction ie meeting point this being the school, sleep early morning rise food coffee tea, a written location and asked not to be talked about etc paper eaten or got rid off so nothing is left.
onto location, enter and then take action, much as what happend at the opencast action, but other shit happend there people got busted, same people involved so one is told, people busted of course speculation, but come it aint hard to work out such an action with large no,s..
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Probably something as straightforward as monitoring e-mails (though I'd hope they weren't so daft as to circulate the final details elecronically) or, more likely, mobile phones. Might even have simply been following people as they headed for the meet up.
As touched on in other posts, I'd guess green direct action is probably the second biggest area of police/intelligence activity at the moment - but a very long way behind the policing of Muslim radicals. In fact so far behind it that they wouldn't bother with the effort of getting somebody 'inside' groupings like this. Dunno though, I'm guessing...
lopsidedbunny
Active Member
Remember the "undercover" agent empolyed by the Corprate companies not so long ago who posted his personal detials on the web (Myspace?) and got found out. 
To rub salt in the wound someone gave him false information by claiming that there were going to be a demo held at Hyde Park which ended up in the Evening Standard... these protesters groups get all sorts of two bit "protesters" in the club... both coppers and corp' security agencies employees sadly.
To rub salt in the wound someone gave him false information by claiming that there were going to be a demo held at Hyde Park which ended up in the Evening Standard... these protesters groups get all sorts of two bit "protesters" in the club... both coppers and corp' security agencies employees sadly.
winjer
holocene death beat
Lower your expectations
free spirit
more tea vicar?
carrier pidgeon is the only way to be sure IME...Lower your expectations
winjer
holocene death beat
"Climate Rush comment on Sneinton arrests over planned Ratcliffe...
A group called Climate Rush said they had been planning a non-violent protest at a power station - but were arrested before they could carry it out..."
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/h...er-protest/article-897366-detail/article.html
Link doesn't work at the moment, but google lists it.
Logic suggested that the alternative place was more practical, apparenttly losts of minibuses e.t.c. are still left at the sire, so maybe the power station was the intended site of protest. I hope they are all ok, horrible situation waiting for your court appearance, especially for those with families e.t.c.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
could be I guess.
I got the feeling climate rush were fairly well connected (eg support from caroline lucas on their website), but potentialy a bit non worldly wise about the potential for police action, and the need to take precautions... all a bit jolly hockey sticks, which I guess could explain the complete silance from them since the arrests if they've not had press / legal contacts stashed safely offsite to co-ordinate the response if the police did take this kind of action.
easy to sit on the sofa and criticise though I guess
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
The "conspiracy" thing is clearly worrying, but these people are idiots.
They had one on "Today" earlier.
"shut down all power stations now" ....
Presumably he wants a massive nuclear programme... or for us all to leave the cities and get a strip of land and a mud hut.
I blame the drugs - or the organic green tea ...
I wonder if he passed his physics GCSE ....
All 114 released on bail http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7997598.stm
Your source please, or are you like moust in your trade masters of disinformation?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Wouldn't be at all suprised if the cops had an informer within the group. Wouldn't be a cop or a spook - more like somebody connected with the activist movement who they have 'turned' - possibly through threateneing to prosecute him/her for something else.
Aynone know if MI5 got a dedicated team targetting environmental protestors?
Aynone know if MI5 got a dedicated team targetting environmental protestors?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
his source presumably was the article linked to in the post prior to his which stated the following...
which was pretty easy to work out really.
If you want to retain even the tiniest hint of credibility on here though I'd seriously suggest you actually listen to what Laptop was saying to you on the other thread, rather than lashing out at him and attempting to smear him as a potential informant. That is what you were hinting at isn't it?
I am pleased to see that you now make it clear when you are speculating.
My source for the first is the link you gave to the indymedia page where someone offers a speculation. You write here as though you're reporting someone else's speculation; but oddly enough that person shares typing tics with you. That is all.
My source for the second is the BBC report linked immediately above.
I think you would find, were you to read this correspondence, that my subject here is accurate information and that what I ask of you is honest reporting.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
not sure, but probably. IMO that's what this smear campaign attempting to label us as eco terrorists has been about, ie justifying bringing us into the remit of MI5 and GCHQ.
the purpose of this though I doubt would be for MI5 to actually put informers in place necessarily, much more likely that it'd be to enable them to use their electronic surveillance methods against us. I very much doubt that the police have the ability to do much electronically beyond the odd wire tap, but GCHQ would have the ability to have computers sat there constantly churning through data on thousands of mobile phones, email accounts etc etc to do stuff like pattern analysis, look for unusual clusters of mobile phone locations together to indicate potential meetings, and if the paranoid activists are correct then listen in to the meeting via any mobile or fixed line phones that haven't had the battery removed... not entirely sure how possible the last bit is (though it defo works on landlines)... they could also use the mobile phone location data to get info on potential targets, and meet points etc.
most of this can be done pretty easily largely automatically, and it's exactly the sort of programming they'd have had to develop to use against al queida, so it'd have taken sod all effort to reconfigue it and input all the data they've been gathering on us lot over the last 20 odd years, and turn it against us.
probably in this case though that they just got access to the email list / facebook group, and got most of their info this way.
there are ways around this, but you need the entire group involved to buy into it fully, and not just think you're being overly paranoid etc. otherwise someone will let something slip at some point... done right though it could also be used to lay some nice little false trails. It'd only take a couple of entirely wasted 200 person 3 force operations before the police really started to question the intel they were getting IMO.
winjer
holocene death beat
Or look for clusters of mobile phones that suddenly drop of the network all together when they're switched off at the same time.
The point of taking batteries out of mobiles is not that the police can listen in if you don't, it's to show other people that the phone is definitely off.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
nah, it's both.
the bit about MI5 / GCHQ listening in may just be precautionary bollocks, but being as we'd not know what their capabilities actually are until 30 years down the line, it does seem pretty sensible as it's not really beyond the realms of what could be technically possible.
better safe than sorry eh
winjer
holocene death beat
Keep believing that if you want, I'll stick with the laws of physics.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
There was a stunning radio adaptation a while ago on the rise of Nazism by Kressman Taylor called “Address Unknown”. It’s an exchange of (fictional) letters set before the war between a German Jew Max living in the US and his friend/ex business partner Martin, who went back to live in Germany in early 30s. Their letters become increasingly distant as Martin increasingly buys into anti-Semitism. Martin then says he can’t write to Max any more because of the new laws that have come in preventing contact with Jews.
Max’s sister shortly after happens to go to Berlin, but disappears and his letters are returned to Max ‘Addressee Unknown’ (Adressant Unbekant). Max pleads with Martin for his help in finding her. Eventually Martin replies that the sister had arrived at his house chased by Storm Troopers, and that he had had to turn her away and she was caught and killed. Martin points out how dangerous it was for him that a Jewess had turned up at his house, and demands that Max write to him no more since he will have no dealings with Jews apart from on financial matters.
Max sends a series of cablegrams: “Your terms accepted. November audit shows 13% increase. February fourfold assured. Planned exhibition May. Prepare leave from Moscow if market opens unexpectedly. Financial instructions mailed new address. Eisenstein”. … “American contributors will furnish 1000 brushes for your German Young Painters League. Mandleberg has joined in supporting the League. You must send eleven Picasso reproductions, twenty by ninety to branch galleries on the 25th, no sooner. Reds and blues must predominate. We can allow you $8,000 on this transaction at present. Start new accounts book”. … “Good news. Our stock reached 116 … Swiss miniatures are having a vogue … plan to be in Zurich … Uncle Solomon will be glad to see you and we know you will rely heavily on his efforts.” “Rebus says he must write more briefly and clearly so that everyone … I’m sure … may want to take your family with you Before leaving, however, … Reubens 15 by 204 blue and yellow’ All the cablegrams are signed “Eisenstein”.
Along the way Martin writes in panic that he has been called in by the Nazis who demanded to know the Code. He has to resign his office, his son is thrown out of the Boys’ Core, his daughter is thrown out of extra classes. He writes “I am in fear for my life, Max. … No more.” Max's final cablegram is: “A shipment of 1500 brushes … will reach your Berlin associates … The God of Moses be at your Right Hand. Eisenstein”. It is returned, stamped “Addressant Unbekant”. .
Max’s sister shortly after happens to go to Berlin, but disappears and his letters are returned to Max ‘Addressee Unknown’ (Adressant Unbekant). Max pleads with Martin for his help in finding her. Eventually Martin replies that the sister had arrived at his house chased by Storm Troopers, and that he had had to turn her away and she was caught and killed. Martin points out how dangerous it was for him that a Jewess had turned up at his house, and demands that Max write to him no more since he will have no dealings with Jews apart from on financial matters.
Max sends a series of cablegrams: “Your terms accepted. November audit shows 13% increase. February fourfold assured. Planned exhibition May. Prepare leave from Moscow if market opens unexpectedly. Financial instructions mailed new address. Eisenstein”. … “American contributors will furnish 1000 brushes for your German Young Painters League. Mandleberg has joined in supporting the League. You must send eleven Picasso reproductions, twenty by ninety to branch galleries on the 25th, no sooner. Reds and blues must predominate. We can allow you $8,000 on this transaction at present. Start new accounts book”. … “Good news. Our stock reached 116 … Swiss miniatures are having a vogue … plan to be in Zurich … Uncle Solomon will be glad to see you and we know you will rely heavily on his efforts.” “Rebus says he must write more briefly and clearly so that everyone … I’m sure … may want to take your family with you Before leaving, however, … Reubens 15 by 204 blue and yellow’ All the cablegrams are signed “Eisenstein”.
Along the way Martin writes in panic that he has been called in by the Nazis who demanded to know the Code. He has to resign his office, his son is thrown out of the Boys’ Core, his daughter is thrown out of extra classes. He writes “I am in fear for my life, Max. … No more.” Max's final cablegram is: “A shipment of 1500 brushes … will reach your Berlin associates … The God of Moses be at your Right Hand. Eisenstein”. It is returned, stamped “Addressant Unbekant”. .
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Looking at how groups like Climate Camp and Keep It In The Ground organise (neccessarily one could argue, for being open and accountable) it is not remotely suprising that they are heavily infiltrated.
They will need to re-think how to balance open-ness with security. Bloody hell that sounds like the neolab excuse for security paranoia. The state might be determined to make us all paranoid as they are.
They will need to re-think how to balance open-ness with security. Bloody hell that sounds like the neolab excuse for security paranoia. The state might be determined to make us all paranoid as they are.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
really?Keep believing that if you want, I'll stick with the laws of physics.
I must have missed that lesson.
is the ability of mobile phone operating systems to withstand viruses capable of telling the phone to open a line to a specified number upon receipt of a specified bit of code sent from outside in the same way that the phone regularly responds to code sent from the nearest transmitters asking it to respond to determine which transmitter's closer, a standard physics law?
best tell the FBI then eh.
I'd not be worried about it if I couldn't see a mechanism that'd make it technically possible for them to do it, and this is not just possible, it's such an obvious and relatively simple thing for the security services to have done that they'd have to be pretty incompetant not to have done it. Note that I'm not saying they've gone to all this effort simply to bug some hippies, but once they've spent the time and resources developing the code and techniques to enable them to do it against AQ or organised crime, then this just becomes another standard tool in their arsenal that they can use at virtually no cost against anyone else they chose to, eco activists included.
I'm not talking about the police having direct access to the technology either, I'm talking specifically about GCHQ having this ability, and the ability to turn it against us at will if and when we're deemed a big enough thread for them to worry about. The recent press smears labelling us as eco-terrorists, and the level and manor of these arrests together with the raised profile of environmental actions of late would give a good indication to me that the intelligence services are stepping this up a gear, which makes it highly likely that GCHQ would be involved IMO.
Not at all, i would not hint just say how it is, this said how did The Police know?
winjer
holocene death beat
No, it's the ability of batteries to power such transmissions without noticeable drops in charge, and for older/simpler phones the complete unability to run such code.
Nextels are not regular mobile phones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialized_Mobile_Radio
and I'm familiar with the Ardito case, which doesn't negate my point about physics in the slightest :yawn:
free spirit
more tea vicar?
don't know, but there's a fair few possibilities.
could be a plant, could be some of the stuff I mention above, info picked up / overheard at the climate camp kettle, or could be that the police had simply added themselves to a relatively open email list and received enough details via email to piece it together, or a combination of some or all of the above.
the presence of 3 forces IMO doesn't actuall necessarily indicate much advance notice of the operation, as it could also be a sign that the operation was pulled together using the Mutual Aid system to request urgent support from surrounding forces, though I think it's more likely they had advance intelligence.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
wait, what?
when and where did I say anything about them being able to do this either on old phones, or without causing the battery power levels to drop?
you just dreamt that up.
yes it may only work on certain types of phone, on newer phones etc, and yes people may notice their battery has been drained, but none of that means it's not possible to do, which is what you'd made out, and continue to make out in this post by talking about it going against the laws of physics.
perhaps you could be so kind as to spell out exactly how this goes against the laws of physics.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Possibly, but as l-bunny suggested, might have been a power company placement
