1100 aborted every year for Downs Syndrome

[fela fan]

you really are astonshingly ignnorant. it is grotesqueluy insulting for you to wade in despite being completely clueless about the subject, and then spouting a steaming great pile of shit.

if i were you, i'd shut the fuck up and back away from the thread, because you are making yourself look even more stupid than usual.

Oh settle down lad and lighten up. You are preposterously serious, did you have a hernia writing that post?

And if i'm looking stupid, that'll be my look out thanks. It shouldn't need to worry you.

But since i've now shown how little i knew, and having done a bit of learning, you'll be happy to know that i shall indeed leave the thread.

The thing about learning new stuff through urban is that it is often accompanied by rabid posters going apoplectic with rage and insult. Weird. I got it all wrong belboid. Alright?

 

[belboid]

Grow up. And maybe try doing your research before you scream moronically ignorant statements in future.

 

[frogwoman]

Also is it not the case that people with Downs and the like just used to be shut away in insititutions or sent away at birth? so the statistics regarding it's "increase" would be quite misleading anyway?

 

[ViolentPanda]

So would more abortions.

Anything to save your tax money being spent on useless mouths, eh?

 

[kittyP]

Also is it not the case that people with Downs and the like just used to be shut away in insititutions or sent away at birth? so the statistics regarding it's "increase" would be quite misleading anyway?

I would have thought this.

I would have also thought that he cases of Downs Syndrome would be higher in the western society due to larger groups of older women being able to conceive.
Younger women conceive children with downs syndrome but I think its rarer.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Equally common worldwide? What kind of research are you reading? Absolute bullshit it's equally common worldwide. How can you believe that? You will find it impossible to provide this evidence you've sited, firstly because you've not read it, secondly because it doesn't exist.

Down's syndrome is a chromosomal disorder that occurs due to a quirk of biology inherent to all people. It manifests just as often in the DRC as it does in the USA (about once in every 980 conceptions)

No evidence for environmental factors? Well, i guess if you put your head in the ground there'd be no evidence...

So belboid, food and medicine have nothing to do with downs syndrome then? Chemicals used in the production of food have no link? Chemicals and technology all over the place in our modern world have no link?

None of which have anything to do with Down's syndrome.
You appear to be mistaking a chromosomal disorder that has a medical history going back at least as far as the Hellenic era, for modern birth defects caused by environmental factors, stuff such as polydactyly, phocomelia etc.
As anyone with an understanding of human biology will tell you, the one has nothing to do with the other, however much you might like it to (for the convenience of your "argument").

You're skating on ice that's so thin you've already fallen into the water.

A good starting place to recover is to recognise that there are two illness/disease types: diseases of poverty and diseases of wealth.

You've just fallen through your own ice.
Again. Down's syndrome is a chromosomal disorder, it's the result of faulty cell replication that inserts an extra copy of chromosome 21. There has been, as yet, no credible research linking occurrence of Down's syndrome to environmental factors, but a shitload over the last 100 years that has shown that occurrence is pretty much "bad luck" influenced by ageing.

Or is everyone the same, everyone randomly able to get all diseases and illnesses, wherever they are in the world, and whatever environment they live in, be it eskimos or desert nomads?

You're living in cloud cuckoo fantasy land.

It's not a disease or illness.

Perhaps you should have garnered a bit of basic knowledge before sounding off and showing your ignorance, hmmm?

 

[frogwoman]

Also, in some countries people with downs syndrome and the like are just let to get on with it rather than being given special help or being put in a special category. Unfortunately it seems that Moldova is one of them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Down syndrome isn't an illness or a disease, it's a condition caused by a chromosomal disorder that happens in around one in every 1,000 pregnancies.

If you're going to wade into this subject you should at least try and give yourself a vague idea of what you're talking about first.

Hear bloody hear!

 

[kittyP]

Anything to save your tax money being spent on useless mouths, eh?

Unless I have misread this post that is a bit harsh.

You post above explaining things was very clear though

 

[kittyP]

Damn it, I said yesterday I wasn't posting here any more.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wading in eh? Sounds like what you've done here mate. I came to this thread with questions i thought needed asking. I never claimed to have answers, and nor do i, just some vague ideas. But i was surprised at the absence of questions as to why downs syndrome happens in the first place.

We know why it happens: Faulty duplication of chromosome 21.
We know that rather than being a disease process or an illness caused by the influence of external factors, that the main influence is the age of the egg being fertilised and a quirk of the human ability to mutate that causes the cell to replicate in a faulty manner, duplicating chromosome 21.
We also know that, allowing for occurrence at all ages of conception, the volume of women conceiving children with Down's syndrome in all measured societies, from developing to developed world, is around one in every 980 conceptions.

So, you've 'waded' in here to admonish me, while not even managing to read properly what i'm posting. It's your perceptions that you're incorrectly putting onto me.

Now then, this chromosonal disorder (i presume my spelling is the correct version, wading in too quickly can lead to sloppy posting...), is that 1 in every 1000 pregnancies everywhere in the world? All females? All races, all nations, all backgrounds, all ages? You have a very neat answer and stat to this 'disorder'. I shall now go investigate the veracity of your knowledge.

That's c-h-r-o-m-s-o-m-e, no "n".
Investigate away. As long as you stick to science sites rather than CT sites all you'll be doing is rubbing your own ignorance in your face, I'm afraid.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well, at least i've learnt a bit about this disorder.

I found it hard to get statistics for different countries, but for US, japan, and europe it seemed pretty similar. Nothing on africa or asia.

Sorry trashpony, nothing to hand over!

1.2 per 1000 in India.
Link to pdf file for "worldwide incidence of Down's syndrome".
Now, I'm sure fela will jump on the fact that the author lists the contraceptive pll as an environmental influence on occurrence of Down's syndrome, but I hope he'll note that while it increases risk for younger mothers, it lessens the risk for older mothers.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Unless I have misread this post that is a bit harsh.

You post above explaining things was very clear though

XR-75 likes to make insinuations and comments about people he views as "scroungers", so I'd expect that his primary concern would be about money being spent on people he might consider useless.
Perhaps the use of the phrase "useless mouths" wasa bit harsh, considering its provenance, but I rarely credit people who talk in terms of "scroungers" with the ability to step back from thinking how much better the world might be if we disabled weren't here to soak up their taxes.
I'm a cynical bastard, basically.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Damn it, I said yesterday I wasn't posting here any more.

You can never leave!! Mwahahahahahahahahahah!!!

 

[XR75]

XR-75 likes to make insinuations and comments about people he views as "scroungers", so I'd expect that his primary concern would be about money being spent on people he might consider useless.
Perhaps the use of the phrase "useless mouths" wasa bit harsh, considering its provenance, but I rarely credit people who talk in terms of "scroungers" with the ability to step back from thinking how much better the world might be if we disabled weren't here to soak up their taxes.
I'm a cynical bastard, basically.

Sounds like someone's felt the need to try and misrepresent my comment because they didn't like it.

 

[Maidmarian]

Sounds like someone's felt the need to try and misrepresent my comment because they didn't like it.

What was the point you were making ?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sounds like someone's felt the need to try and misrepresent my comment because they didn't like it.

I haven't misrepresented your comment, neither has anyone claimed that I have, except you, now. I was responding to someone saying that I'd been harsh.
You, as you know, have an easily accessible posting history littered with your digs at, variously, union members, the unemployed, benefits claimants etc, so I doubt misrepresentation would be a sensible move for me. Passing a fair (albeit apparently "harsh") comment, one easily checkable by any poster who cares to disturb themselves by reviewing your posting history and arrive at their own conclusion(s), is what I did.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What was the point you were making ?

In his view "more abortions" would go a long way to lessening the issues with disability and illness that society currently has. This in answer to my point that better societal attitudes through education and more financial support for people with disabilities would lessen.
Now, perhaps he'll try to claim that he was being ironic or pro-abortion, but to me his "more abortion" suggestion reads as a logical concomitant to some of his previous mutterings on the subject of people claiming disability benefits.

 

[XR75]

This in answer to my point that better societal attitudes through education and more financial support for people with disabilities would lessen.

What's wrong with more abortions in regard to this threads topic.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What's wrong with more abortions in regard to this threads topic.

Given that abortions are freely available to any woman who requires one, whether foetal malformations have been detected or not, then logically "more abortions" to address disability would be impossible unless they were coercive; active eugenicist actions to remove from society those who would otherwise be born with a disability.

 

[phildwyer]

Also, in some countries people with downs syndrome and the like are just let to get on with it rather than being given special help or being put in a special category. Unfortunately it seems that Moldova is one of them.

The whole world has been like that for the vast majority of human history. What's the problem?

 

[XR75]

Given that abortions are freely available to any woman who requires one, whether foetal malformations have been detected or not, then logically "more abortions" to address disability would be impossible unless they were coercive; active eugenicist actions to remove from society those who would otherwise be born with a disability.

Your comment's overdramatic and paints a picture that there couldn't be anymore abortions without going to extreme lengths which is false.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Your comment's overdramatic and paints a picture that there couldn't be anymore abortions without going to extreme lengths which is false.

Really?
The UK has a fairly liberal attitude to abortion, one of the most liberal attitudes in Europe in fact, so your comment that I'm over-dramatising doesn't really hold water. The only way you could increase uptake of abortion within such a liberal system would be to coerce, to institute some kind of system whereby you liquidated those foetii suffering birth defects in utero. Any woman in the UK who wants an abortion, whether the foetus has birth defects or not, is entitled to one until later in the pregnancy than most of the rest of Europe allows.

Also, instead of raising rather pathetic non-arguments with me, why not explain to me how "more abortions with regard to the thread's topic" could be achieved, except by a coercive system of some kind, if you're so sure you're right. I've noticed that you've shied away from doing that.

 

[frogwoman]

The "problem" phil is that its pretty fucking awful to say the least, to seepeople in wheelchairs with their (horribly deformed) hands stretched out on the street, in the freezing cold, or to see people who can barely walk or talk properly get on the trolleybus and collect money frm all and sundry before being kicked off of that bus.

I appreciate this is the first time I've ever lived outside of the UK and so maybe I'm not used to it, but this isn't a sight that you see very often in england

 

[XR75]

Also, instead of raising rather pathetic non-arguments with me, why not explain to me how "more abortions with regard to the thread's topic" could be achieved, except by a coercive system of some kind, if you're so sure you're right. I've noticed that you've shied away from doing that.

I asked what was wrong not how you could have more abortions without being forceful although I'm sure you're clever enough to figure that out for yourself.

 

[kyser_soze]

I appreciate this is the first time I've ever lived outside of the UK and so maybe I'm not used to it

This. Travel a bit more and you'll find very, very quickly that life in the UK isn't typical of life around the world in a huge variety of ways.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I asked what was wrong not how you could have more abortions without being forceful although I'm sure you're clever enough to figure that out for yourself.

The answer was in my answer.
Obviously you aren't clever enough to have worked that out.