10p tax

[audiotech]

I just don't see how people can have this brazenly arrogant shit rubbed in thier noses like this and yet there isn't a revolution.

It's usually because the poorest do not spontaneously rise-up as one. For that to happen there needs to be an organisation based on revolutionary working class politics to unite under one banner.

Either that, or they can give me the £26 they owe me.

 

[Darios]

They (the rebels) have folded, Field has withdrawn the amendment after the Chancellor promised to compensate those who lost out via the minimum wage, the tax credits "system" and winter fuel allowance.

Why am I sure that I will still lose out, unless they create a new category in the tax credits system that I fit into? I'm paid well above minimum wage in both of my jobs so I guess I'm going to fall through the cracks on this one. Again.

As someone who is in receipt of tax credit, this is an accurate description. In fact it's so much hassle, I have considered not applying for it this year. My earnings fluctuate, and the tax credit system operates a year behind, so I'm often "overpaid" and this money clawed back when my earnings are in fact lower. I'm currently in a low cycle, paying back, so I'm sort of trapped into it.

I have a similar problem danny. My earnings vary throughout the year. The net result however is that most years I'm still well under 18.5k gross.

 

[danny la rouge]

I have a similar problem danny. My earnings vary throughout the year. The net result however is that most years I'm still well under 18.5k gross.

Yeah, me too. This year I'm around £13k, last I was £15, meaning that this year they're clawing back the amount they judge they "overpaid" last year.

 

[Darios]

Yeah, me too. This year I'm around £13k, last I was £15, meaning that this year they're clawing back the amount they judge they "overpaid" last year.

So that means your earnings regularly drop under 1k, if not £900 a month take home then? I hope you're not in London?

Mine vary between similar levels. With the recent price hikes in various areas, plus the loss of the 10% rate I'm really starting to feel the pinch, especially with more raises are on the way this year. And I'm single and childless. God knows how some of my friends are going to survive - with kids and jobs in call centres (for those who don't know, 13k is fairly typical pay in those places, and that's on the higher end). Its getting to the point I want to write to my MPs and councillors and tell them that going to prison is looking like a more and more attractive option.

At least I'll get to kill someone I really hate first.

 

[poster342002]

Right. First off, let's get one thing straight about the much-trumpeted "climbdown": it isn't a climbdown at all. A climbdown would be the unconditional restoration of the 10p tax-rate - end of. No ifs or buts.

So, in light of this, I do NOT expect the left to start crowing about what a "victory" this is. I DO NOT expect to see idiotic, hollow-triumphalist columns in the leftist press about how "pressure from the left, trade unionists and MPs forced the government into a humiliating climbdown when they agreed to extend benefits to those affected by the tax changes".

Or any varient on that cop-out.

Got that?

 

[Darios]

Right. First off, let's get one thing straight about the much-trumpeted "climbdown": it isn't a climbdown at all. A climbdown would be the unconditional restoration of the 10p tax-rate - end of. No ifs or buts.

Agreed. It's just more fucking spin.

 

[danny la rouge]

I hope you're not in London?

I'm not.

 

[danny la rouge]

Right. First off, let's get one thing straight about the much-trumpeted "climbdown": it isn't a climbdown at all. A climbdown would be the unconditional restoration of the 10p tax-rate - end of. No ifs or buts.

Correct.

 

[gentlegreen]

It's not at all clear to me how removing the 10p tax band "streamlined" the tax system - or whatever the excuse was - after all there's still a jump at 40K.

 

[poster342002]

Agreed. It's just more fucking spin.

Yes, but the danger is that the "left" will attempt to do their usual thing of playing this up as a victory.

 

[poster342002]

Correct.

Indeed.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's not at all clear to me how removing the 10p tax band "streamlined" the tax system

It's like "modernising", "flexibility" and "efficiency"; code for robbing poor people.

 

[gentlegreen]

Gawd 'elp us all.

I wonder what sort of competent coalition government we could cook up from all the parties ....

This one needs a kick in the arse ....

 

[audiotech]

Yes, but the danger is that the "left" will attempt to do their usual thing of playing this up as a victory.

Frank Field is on the right.

 

[danny la rouge]

Frank Field is on the right.

And that's the measure of the wonderful, Not Flash, Gordon. The man we were told would mean a return to social democratic values. The man with his feet embedded in the roots of the Labour movement. The man who would be so much better than Blair.

He makes Frank Field left by comparison.

 

[poster342002]

Frank Field is on the right.

I don't mean people like Frank Field and you know it. I mean the various trots.

Seriously: people aren't in the mood for any hyperbolic, overplayed, ra ra ra "massive victory!" "left has forced a dramatic climbdown!" "beginning of the end for Brown" nonsense - because it quite clearly isn't. They've got clean away with it in a typically slimy, sneaky and wriggly way.

 

[shagnasty]

If as was said it's not a climb down will it be seen as a climbdown?? i ask this hopefully to further the argument

 

[lewislewis]

Fucks sake, i'm going to lose money on this as well from the crappy job I work. As for Brown, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually turns out even further to the right than Blair.

 

[gentlegreen]

I reckon we ought to agree a "voteable" filter - starting with Iraq.

 

[audiotech]

I don't mean people like Frank Field and you know it. I mean the various trots.

No, I don't know what goes on in the mind of a "PROPER leftwing socialist".

Poster, this rebellion is led by a crank, right-wing Labour MP. When the 'various trots' you say are going to 'play this up as a victory' and actually print something to that affect do let me know.

 

[Maggot]

I've just had my monthly pay slip, I find that I'm paying an extra £15 tax a month which I can ill afford. I assume this is the tax changes kicking in.
Am I going to vote Labour...like f##k I am.

They haven't voted on the changes yet, so I doubt that will be the case.

 

[belboid]

I don't mean people like Frank Field and you know it. I mean the various trots.

Seriously: people aren't in the mood for any hyperbolic, overplayed, ra ra ra "massive victory!" "left has forced a dramatic climbdown!" "beginning of the end for Brown" nonsense - because it quite clearly isn't. They've got clean away with it in a typically slimy, sneaky and wriggly way.

but....Frank Field is the only person to call it a great victory, everyone else says it's shit. Once again, you seem to be shouting at straw men.

 

[ethel]

They haven't voted on the changes yet, so I doubt that will be the case.

it's in already:

The abolition of the 10p rate was part of Gordon Brown's final Budget as chancellor, before he became prime minister last year, and came into effect earlier this month.

i had £20 more this month.

 

[Maggot]

it's in already:

The abolition of the 10p rate was part of Gordon Brown's final Budget as chancellor, before he became prime minister last year, and came into effect earlier this month.

Well excuse my ignorance, but how can a measure be introduced before parliament has voted on it?

 

[danny la rouge]

Well excuse my ignorance, but how can a measure be introduced before parliament has voted on it?

It was announced last year by Gorndon Brown when he was still Chancellor (March 2007), and took effect from April 6th this year (2008).

Each Spring Budget goes on to become the Finance Bill that Summer, then when it is Approved, it becomes the Finance Act for that year. The March 2007 Budget became the July 2007 Finance Act when it was passed by Parliament, receiving Royal assent on 19th July 07.

The measure Frank Field was protesting about had already been voted through by Labour MPs 9 months earlier. The rebels either hadn't noticed, or only got worried when their electors noticed.

 

[ethel]

indeed. i love the way it took them all a full year to be bothered about it.

 

[Bakunin]

Also, the government has been quick to give the banks £50 billion, but putting £7 billion to help the poorest and it appears the message is tough shit.

They also mysteriously found £76bn down the back of the sofa to replace Trident, although the backbench rebellion on that did happen and was, IIRC, one of the largest ever.

Care to defend that as well, tbaldwin?

 

[Maggot]

It was announced last year by Gorndon Brown when he was still Chancellor (March 2007), and took effect from April 6th this year (2008).

Each Spring Budget goes on to become the Finance Bill that Summer, then when it is Approved, it becomes the Finance Act for that year. The March 2007 Budget became the July 2007 Finance Act when it was passed by Parliament, receiving Royal assent on 19th July 07.

The measure Frank Field was protesting about had already been voted through by Labour MPs 9 months earlier. The rebels either hadn't noticed, or only got worried when their electors noticed.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[danny la rouge]

You're welcome.