1010uk.org - What will you do?

[paolo]

moon23... I'm signed up.

My flat is already well insulated, and I don't have a car, and rarely fly. Some of my lighting is now LED, but alot is halogen.

So my list is now:
- Stop leaving the PC powered up all the time.
- Eat less meat.
- Sort my bike out and ride a bit more.
- No flights this year or next. (Not much sacrifice, I hate flying).
- Investigate low power replacement for the halogens. (Could be tricky due to the fixtures... renting also, making it less practical to have stuff physically reworked).

No idea if this is going to make it to 10%

Any suggestions for a decent carbon calculator?

 

[moon23]

Touched a nerve, have I?

Marx and Engels were political theorists, Marx's contribution was useful in terms of analysis, but the movements he described did not stem from that analysis. Even so, what they did in terms of providing an explanatory framework for the workers' movement is far more valuable than this deluded bullshit about changing the entire basis of the economy by making small lifestyle changes.

So you accept that people living middle-class lifestyles can make contributions in other ways eg through contributing to an analysis like Marx & Engles?

 

[Idaho]

I really can't see climate change being combatted by worthy voluntarism. Especially when private households account for less than 30% of emissions.

 

[Balbi]

I'm cutting down my carbon stuff anyway, and don't need celebrities or champagne launches down at the B.P and Shell funded Tate Gallery to do it.

Eon are encouraging their customers to cut their emissions by 10% - so expect a 10% price rise from them in the near future, oh and they're still going to fucking build at Kingsnorth.

 

[fredfelt]

Touched a nerve, have I?

Marx and Engels were political theorists, Marx's contribution was useful in terms of analysis, but the movements he described did not stem from that analysis. Even so, what they did in terms of providing an explanatory framework for the workers' movement is far more valuable than this deluded bullshit about changing the entire basis of the economy by making small lifestyle changes.

Do you have a suggestion of how to change the entire basis of the economy? Is this possible without lifestyle changes?

 

[moon23]

moon23... I'm signed up.

My flat is already well insulated, and I don't have a car, and rarely fly. Some of my lighting is now LED, but alot is halogen.

So my list is now:
- Stop leaving the PC powered up all the time.
- Eat less meat.
- Sort my bike out and ride a bit more.
- No flights this year or next. (Not much sacrifice, I hate flying).
- Investigate low power replacement for the halogens. (Could be tricky due to the fixtures... renting also, making it less practical to have stuff physically reworked).

No idea if this is going to make it to 10%

Any suggestions for a decent carbon calculator?

Thanks for being the first to join in with the idea of the thread!

So do you use this type of LED Halogen Light Bulb?:

http://www.lc-led.com/ledhalogenlightbulbs.html

I have been buying a different type, but these might be even better by the looks of it. See that's useful and something I didn't know before.

Someone mentioned that if you have your monitor on a dimmer setting you can conserve a bit more enegry, but yea changing your power down settings so the computer conserves more energy is a good thing. Someone also mentioned that each google search uses CO2 so trying not to use google when you really know the URL is another tip.

To be honest most of the calculators i've seen have just covered the basic stuff like heating & transport.

One suggestion is maybe if you read using your local libary rather than buying new books.

 

[gabi]

One suggestion is maybe if you read using your local libary rather than buying new books.

You can't be real

 

[Divisive Cotton]

• I commute on public transport because I can't afford a car
• I don't fly at all every three years, or two year or every year because I can't afford to go on holiday abroad
• I only shop locally because I have no choice in the matter
• I hang the washing on the communal washing line
• I live in a flat so can't grow my own vegetables.

But don't get my wrong here. If I had the money I would.

• Drive everywhere. If in a fast gas-gusselling sports car, all the better
• Fly abroad for holiday as many times as I could every year so I can see with my own eyes what a wondrous world we live in.
• Shop whereever I want rather than where I have to

We demand bread and roses and a fast sports car and a life

 

[In Bloom]

Do you have a suggestion of how to change the entire basis of the economy?

Yes.

Is this possible without lifestyle changes?

Yes.

 

[moon23]

I really can't see climate change being combatted by worthy voluntarism. Especially when private households account for less than 30% of emissions.

This isn't just about what a private households produces directly, all CO2 is produced to either meet consumer/citizen demand through the production of commodities and the manipulation of natural resources.

If Big business produces lot's of CO2 part of the reason is because we are willing to consume the products they produce, it's also the people who live in private households that work in these industries and maybe able to change the way in which they are organized.

I don't want to be too much of an individual reductionism as obviously it's important to look at things on a macro systems based level but ultimately a lot of it comes down to consumer behavior, which is in turn influenced through things like celebrity culture. So really getting a load of celebrities on board is probably quite a good strategy to influence most people.

 

[In Bloom]

So you accept that people living middle-class lifestyles can make contributions in other ways eg through contributing to an analysis like Marx & Engles?

Well Engels wasn't middle class in any real sense of the word, he was bourgeois, a factory owner (and a shit writer, his only real contribution was in bankrolling Marx). That aside, yes, some middle class people manage to do some good things, how is that relevent to anything?

 

[moon23]

You can't be real

As I said, it's not going to change the world on it's own but sharing commodities rather than individual ownership will help tackle climate change and resource problems.

 

[fredfelt]

I think my emmisions are quite low anyway. I'm veggie. Don't own a car. Don't fly. I'm not currently a house owner so no point investing money into the house, although I have got the land lord to make some energy improvements. Energy is Good Energny so 100% from renewable resources. Over the summer heating and hot water has been turned off completely.

I guess the next thing is to reduce dairy and cut out the few processed meals I buy. I will also make sure that I cut down on food waste.

 

[gentlegreen]

So do you use this type of LED Halogen Light Bulb?:

http://www.lc-led.com/ledhalogenlightbulbs.html

.

those are very expensive - extrapolating dollar prices.

I'm pretty certain these are the best in the UK - I use two on my bike :-

http://www.ledonline.co.uk/

 

[moon23]

Well Engels wasn't middle class in any real sense of the word, he was bourgeois, a factory owner (and a shit writer, his only real contribution was in bankrolling Marx). That aside, yes, some middle class people manage to do some good things, how is that relevent to anything?

It shows how myopic you rant is.

 

[moon23]

Yes.


Yes.

Are you able to tell us what this plan is perhaps?

 

[moon23]

those are very expensive - extrapolating dollar prices.

I'm pretty certain these are the best in the UK - I use two on my bike :-

http://www.ledonline.co.uk/

Thanks i'll check them out.

 

[In Bloom]

Are you able to tell us what this plan is perhaps?

Do you expect everybody to explain their entire world view in every single thread or is it just that you can't defend you own views in their own terms?

 

[fredfelt]

Are you able to tell us what this plan is perhaps?

I think he'll wait for the revolution before he commits to do anything.

 

[Blagsta]

This isn't just about what a private households produces directly, all CO2 is produced to either meet consumer/citizen demand through the production of commodities and the manipulation of natural resources.

Yes, but what is driving that? It's the profit motive. What is behind that? Private ownership of land and resources and MoP, i.e. class. Like I keep saying to you, you're putting the cart before the horse. The problem is structural.

 

[smokedout]

I don't that many people delude themselves into thinking that it's going to change the world, but try to do what they can when they can. Marx & Engles where middle-class but have been hugely infulential. Seeing as you know knothing about what people do to earn their money and what infulence that has on the world you might as well shut up.

stop saying stupid things

or ill turn the heating on

 

[moon23]

Do you expect everybody to explain their entire world view in every single thread or is it just that you can't defend you own views in their own terms?

I expect people who condemn others for a point of view to at least be able to coherently explain an alternative, rather than provide monosyllabic answers. What hope does your plan have if you can’t even be bothered to explain it?

I’m more than happy to explain the basis and reasons why I hold my own views and to have them challenged by polite and well reasoned argument, but won’t endlessly spend my time defending them against someone who has already made up their mind and is more concerned with righteous condemnation.

 

[paolo]

So do you use this type of LED Halogen Light Bulb?:

http://www.lc-led.com/ledhalogenlightbulbs.html

Not sure what type I have... Landlord had them put in, and I've only just moved in. They're a bit feeble, so I'm hoping to find someone who's packaged up a number of cree LED's into a domestic bulb. 3W Cree's are the killer LED.

 

[paolo]

I'm pretty certain these are the best in the UK - I use two on my bike :-

http://www.ledonline.co.uk/

Nice one.

 

[moon23]

Yes, but what is driving that? It's the profit motive. What is behind that? Private ownership of land and resources and MoP, i.e. class. Like I keep saying to you, you're putting the cart before the horse. The problem is structural.

Both Micro analytical and Marco analytical explanations of the same phenomena can co-exists Blagsta. For example you can explain an individual particles behavior with Quantum theory or collectively as group entities e.g. a planet, with General relatively. I think actually reducing things back down to either a micro or macro analysis is mistaken and it’s best to take into account both. That’s been the project of most thinkers following on from Marx, for instance the Frankfurt school brining Marxist Class analysis together with Freudian Psychoanalysis.

So yes I agree with you that class is a very important factor, something this scheme fails to take directly into account. This is the problem I have with it, but as I said I would not dwell on because I think overall it has a net positive impact and I’m more bothered about Praxis then Ideological purity.

However it’s worth noting that the laws of economics that govern things are not just detached entities in their own right but also simultaneously the collective actions of individuals.

If people realize that although they have changed their behavior, Big Business hasn’t then the question about ownership of the MOP will then start to arise. If we allow the influences of Big Business to side-track this process of understanding then it won’t. As such 1010org.uk is both a risk and an opportunity. If we can encourage people through a sense of empowerment to turn their eyes next onto the question of why those who own the MOP haven’t done anything to change then we have a chance of developing class consciousness, if we are critical of the entire thing and are not on board there is a risk that Big Business will convince people that’s their job done, and they can now go back to sleep.

 

[david dissadent]

Yes, but what is driving that? It's the profit motive. What is behind that? Private ownership of land and resources and MoP, i.e. class. Like I keep saying to you, you're putting the cart before the horse. The problem is structural.

I agree so far as that we can no longer sustain a capitalist society, a system predicated on growth and where each element (company) can only operate aiming to grow, is no longer sustainable. It’s not just in terms of using the atmosphere as a sink but also in terms of available net energy, overuse of other sinks (such as water, the sea, land fill), available resources and on and on.

I am in no way shape or form a 'radical anti capitalist', but I am pretty damned sure that (in its current form) it’s all but over. But I am very deeply concerned about what will replace our current model (but that is a very different discussion and one most people don’t seem keen to have).

What I think of this 1010 thing is that it is a small step in the right direction.
A move away from consuming because you can is pretty much the first step in individuals changing themselves to deal with a world in which energy consumption will come at much higher costs. In which there is likely to be far less 'surplus value' (if that is the right term) around for those in the west to enjoy.

It also is the beginning of the changing a core dynamic of society that drives 'capitalism', that is to say the assumption that people will always want more.

 

[moon23]

Not sure what type I have... Landlord had them put in, and I've only just moved in. They're a bit feeble, so I'm hoping to find someone who's packaged up a number of cree LED's into a domestic bulb. 3W Cree's are the killer LED.

These ones that cost £9.20 look the best on that site in terms of relative power output for consumption:

http://www.ledonline.co.uk/HP1BAWP-X-38-33.htm

Expensive though. My Landlord has put about 18 spot lights just in the main room so maybe with the number I could have more of the weaker ones.

 

[moon23]

I agree so far as that we can no longer sustain a capitalist society, a system predicated on growth and where each element (company) can only operate aiming to grow, is no longer sustainable. It’s not just in terms of using the atmosphere as a sink but also in terms of available net energy, overuse of other sinks (such as water, the sea, land fill), available resources and on and on.

I am in no way shape or form a 'radical anti capitalist', but I am pretty damned sure that (in its current form) it’s all but over. But I am very deeply concerned about what will replace our current model (but that is a very different discussion and one most people don’t seem keen to have).

What I think of this 1010 thing is that it is a small step in the right direction.
A move away from consuming because you can is pretty much the first step in individuals changing themselves to deal with a world in which energy consumption will come at much higher costs. In which there is likely to be far less 'surplus value' (if that is the right term) around for those in the west to enjoy.

It also is the beginning of the changing a core dynamic of society that drives 'capitalism', that is to say the assumption that people will always want more.

Yes that changing core dynamic of society you are getting at is part of the process of what some might call a developing a class consciousness, although it is not ever likely to be expressed in the terms used by radical anti-capitalist or traditional Marxist intellectuals. People are starting to think about how and why commodities are produced which is such a huge step from where we were only a few decades ago when very few people thought about how things were produced. Things like 1010org.uk are a step in that direction.

As we start to understand how natural resources are exploited through production, so too I hope will we start to think about how other people are exploited through things like ownership of the Means of production.

 

[gentlegreen]

These ones that cost £9.20 look the best on that site in terms of relative power output for consumption:

http://www.ledonline.co.uk/HP1BAWP-X-38-33.htm

Expensive though. My Landlord has put about 18 spot lights just in the main room so maybe with the number I could have more of the weaker ones.

I'm a bit disappointed at the time it's taking to get the prices down.

The issue with LEDs is getting a lot of heat out of a teeny junction, so power-wise, we're probably at the limit with 3 to 5 watts from an MR16. There are some new lamps being developed that are full of coolant.

I can well believe the "5 watt" single LED ones are equivalent to a 35 watt QH though - they certainly leave a standard 20 watt QH standing where light the road ahead is concerned. In fact I rarely bothered switching my 20 watt MR16 on at all - in spite of it being popular with DIY-ers.

 

[Diamond]

I know im a hopeless cynic. But this video just about killed me..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/sep/02/1010-campaign-launch

I might stop nicking the guardian.

Oh god.

I know it's a nice idea and it sort of makes sense for people to make an individual effort but any achievement will ultimately be negligible.

The two things that really get me about this sort of thing is firstly, the prevailing attitude that is defined by a kind of smug, self-satisfied idealism which in turn seems to swamp any kind of urgent message that might be being broadcast; and secondly, the exceptionally patronizing assumption, which flows directly from the smug self-satisfied idealism, that this sort of lifestyle green activism will actually set an example to the masses either here, or even more astonishingly, in the developing world.

There's a kind of arrogance that almost looks like insincerity given the enormous structural problems on one hand and the profound consequences of any given solution on the other.