10 candidates for Lambeth and Southwark GLA constituency!
- Thread starter knatchbull
- Start date
So do we get to vote for who we want as mayor and who we want as our reps on the GLS from our borough? Or something.....???
*Confused of Camberwell*
That's because it is confusing! You have three votes in total...
Mayor - A London-wide poll where you have the option of voting for first and second preference candidates, although but you can vote for one candidate if you wish to do so.
London Assembly Borough Rep - This is a local poll where you vote for a local representative on the Assembly. The candidates are named individuals and doesn't necessarily need to be affiliated to a particular party. Labour's Val Shawcross is Lambeth and Southwark's incumbent.
London Assembly Top-up List - This is a London-wide poll for political parties, and the seats are (I think) shared out using a formula based on (a) how many votes each party receives and (b) how many seats they already have at the local Rep level. It's designed to help ensure smaller parties who traditionally lose out on first-past-the-post elections (ie Greens/UKIP) are better placed to gain seats.
There's also an explanation HERE.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
Erm,
the SPGB has about 350 members last time I looked. Granted the vast majority of them are not hyper-activists but, as you lot are the Leninists, that's your job. Please try harder. The working class is counting on you.
"prolatarian stronhold of Clapham"
The above gibe points to the fact that not only do you not know Clapham that well, but your temporary inability to correctly spell proletarian or stronghold suggests that there's only one person in this thread who has their knickers in a twist.
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
Have you seen what the SPGB think of them? http://spgb.blogspot.com/2008/04/following-up-on-mistake-by-journalist.html
So, if I don't want to end up with a Lib Dem, should I vote for Val?
And if you don't want to end up with another Labour stooge, vote Lib Dem.
No, it's a serious question
I've gathered from your posts that you're a Lib Dem supporter and that's fair enough. But what I'm asking is, is it really down to a choice between Val or Caroline? Or, to put it another way, would it be a wasted vote to vote for anyone else in the list of 10?
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
Actually, the constituency vote doesn't really count in this election except to determine which particular individuals fill the seats each party gets allocated under PR -- which depends on the votes cast for the party's list. In other words, it is the vote for the Party List that counts.
Both Shawcross and Pidgeon are in fact on their party's list and so have a parachute in case they fail to get elected for the constituency. Shawcross is Number Six on Labour's and Pidgeon Number Three on the Liberals. So both of them are more or less assured on being members of the GLA anyway. If you elect them for the constituency then some other non-entity, chosen by their party's bureaucracy, will get a seat on the GLA.
So, feel free to vote for one of the other candidates, if only to punish them for not having the courage not to stand just for the constituency.
Both Shawcross and Pidgeon are in fact on their party's list and so have a parachute in case they fail to get elected for the constituency. Shawcross is Number Six on Labour's and Pidgeon Number Three on the Liberals. So both of them are more or less assured on being members of the GLA anyway. If you elect them for the constituency then some other non-entity, chosen by their party's bureaucracy, will get a seat on the GLA.
So, feel free to vote for one of the other candidates, if only to punish them for not having the courage not to stand just for the constituency.
knatchbull
Active Member
In a word yes (well in my opinion yes!)
Unless the turnout increases significantly on last time I dont think there will be much change in the percentage of votes gained by each party.
Last time only 33% of people in Lambeth and Southwark voted and realistically I dont think it will increase significantly.
Maybe there will be an increase in the Conservative vote and consequent decrease in the Lib Dem vote but I think the Labour vote will stay strong because most people in the constituency are Labour supporters. For all the Lib Dem campaigning they have not been able to get a majority in their own right on Lambeth or Southwark councils and the actual vote (rather than number of seats at general or local elections) across the two boroughs is always overwhelmingly in favour of Labour
And remember last time these elections occured was in 2004 when there was lots of criticism of Labour over the Iraq war etc so people who were going to defect probably did so then.
knatchbull
Active Member
Pidgeon is probably safe but I doubt that Shawcross would get elected on the constitency vote if she is at number 6.
From the party list I think there is great value in voting green to ensure that they do not lose their two representatives on the GLA
No, it's a serious question
I've gathered from your posts that you're a Lib Dem supporter and that's fair enough. But what I'm asking is, is it really down to a choice between Val or Caroline? Or, to put it another way, would it be a wasted vote to vote for anyone else in the list of 10?
Yup - you're absolutely right - no chance for anybody else round here.
Results last time here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/10.stm
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
I think you must mean "on the list vote". I still say that (as long as Labour gets 6 seats, they've 7 at the moment) Shawcross is bound to be one of them. The first 5 on the Labour list are all standing in constituencies too. The only thing that could stop her getting elected would be an unexpected Labour gain in a constituency by someone not on the list or lower on the list than her.
So, the party machines have taken steps to ensure that Shawcross and Pidgeon respectively are going to be members of the GLA.
So, as I said, there's no point in voting for either of them. In this sense the election here is a bit of a farce.
I can't speak for Labour.
But I do know about the Lib Dems.
All Lib Dem party members in London got to vote on who was on the list - so Caroline got elected third on the list.
Then about six months later the Lambeth & Southwark GLA seat selected its candidate. There were two candidates on the short list - and Caroline was the one who won.
So yes she's got a strong chance of being elected today - but I know for a fact that she's been working very hard to get elected for the Lambeth / Southwark GLA seat - she was one of the main movers behind getting Steve Bradley elected in Vassall back in March.
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
I still say the choice between the two is pointless as whoever loses will still get to be a member of the GLA (in fact even if both lose they are both still likely to get a seat on the GLA). It may be one of the Lib Dems famous two-horse races where a third party can't win but this is a very odd one where both horses get to win the prize.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
We have to endure another four years of insufferable smugness from Val Shawcross
http://results.londonelects.org.uk/Results/AssemblyResultConstituency.aspx?id=10
knatchbull
Active Member
Yes I think that the story of the election locally is the stuffing of the Lib Dems:
Valerie Shawcross The Labour Party, 60,601 votes (36.43% of votes cast)
Majority 23,648
Caroline Pidgeon Liberal Democrats 36,953 (22.22%)
Shirley Houghton Conservative Party 32,835 (19.74%)
Shane Collins Green Party 18,011 (10.83%)
Geoffrey Macharia Christian Peoples Alliance and Christian Party 4,432
(2.66%)
Jens Winton UK Independence Party 3,012 (1.81%)
Katt Young Left List 1,956 (1.18%)
Janus Polenceus English Democrats 1,867 (1.12%)
Jasmijn De Boo Animals Count 1,828 (1.10%)
Daniel Lambert The Socialist Party 1,588 (0.95%)
But as has been mentioned Pigeon is ok as she has been elected as a Lib Dem list member.
Local resident and Southwark Green Councillor Jenny Jones has been re-elected as a Green list member of the GLA
Valerie Shawcross The Labour Party, 60,601 votes (36.43% of votes cast)
Majority 23,648
Caroline Pidgeon Liberal Democrats 36,953 (22.22%)
Shirley Houghton Conservative Party 32,835 (19.74%)
Shane Collins Green Party 18,011 (10.83%)
Geoffrey Macharia Christian Peoples Alliance and Christian Party 4,432
(2.66%)
Jens Winton UK Independence Party 3,012 (1.81%)
Katt Young Left List 1,956 (1.18%)
Janus Polenceus English Democrats 1,867 (1.12%)
Jasmijn De Boo Animals Count 1,828 (1.10%)
Daniel Lambert The Socialist Party 1,588 (0.95%)
But as has been mentioned Pigeon is ok as she has been elected as a Lib Dem list member.
Local resident and Southwark Green Councillor Jenny Jones has been re-elected as a Green list member of the GLA
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
An interesting side issue in the result is the number of votes obtained by "The Socialist Party" candidate, who was eventually identified on this thread as being the candidate of a party with its offices in Clapham High Street. Dennisr dismissed this party with contempt:
I always thought he was giving a hostage to fortune here and so it has turned out.
Daniel Lambert of "The Socialist Party" obtained 1588 votes in Lambeth and Southwark.
His champion, "sitting councillor" Flood standing in Greenwich and Lewisham obtained . . . 1587 votes.
It seems that the proletarian stronghold of Clapham is stronger than that of Lewisham!
I always thought he was giving a hostage to fortune here and so it has turned out.
Daniel Lambert of "The Socialist Party" obtained 1588 votes in Lambeth and Southwark.
His champion, "sitting councillor" Flood standing in Greenwich and Lewisham obtained . . . 1587 votes.
It seems that the proletarian stronghold of Clapham is stronger than that of Lewisham!
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
That's a fair point, Jean-Luc, but as an ex-pat SPGBer I would say that.
The SPGB's vote is round about what I expected, tbh.
I am, however, a wee bit surprised at the low vote for the Left List candidate. An organisation - the SWP - that makes the grandiose claim of being major players in the leadership of the anti-war movement that numbered 2 million at a demo just five years ago really should have reaped greater rewards.
I wonder if they'll reflect on that or will it just be another round of rationalisations?
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
I don't think many people associate Left List with Stop the War - they didn't announce their new name until March.
I voted for Katt Young, who makes a lot of sense. Shame hardly anybody else did.
The connection was quite prominent in their election broadcast.
We have to endure another four years of insufferable smugness from Val Shawcross
http://results.londonelects.org.uk/Results/AssemblyResultConstituency.aspx?id=10
Well, not really, as an Opposition member without a portfolio, she will be unable to have much effect on anything and is likely to completely disappear in four years time.
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
You can still see it if you want at
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
London elects has just published voting figures for the London elections broken down by wards at http://results.londonelects.org.uk/results/xls/ . The results for Lambeth make fascinating reading (though you have to know the order on which the candidates appeared on the ballot paper). Anyone have any ideas why the Left List candidate (candidate Number 10) should do so badly despite having a black candidate and appealing to black voters, being beaten in many wards even by the mysterious socialist party candidate (candidate Number 4) , and both of them being easily between by the Christian Party (candidate Number 5). They also show that most wards are hopeless for UKIP (candidate Number 9).
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
A supply of pure data like this is like crack to election junkies. I lost half a night's sleep failing to build a multivariate model to explain the ward level numbers when these came out earlier this week.
Quite possibly because the Socialist Party managed to put a leaflet (single colour A5 flyer) through many Lambeth people's doors early in the campaign.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Brixton folk proven to be most independent minded in Lambeth and Soutwark
As Peter Snow used to say, just a bit of fun, but here is the conclusive statistical proof that some Brixtonians are the least sheep like of all South London voters in Labour held wards.
Ward........................................Ken %....Ken%
...............................................less.......less
...............................................Labour%.Shawcross %
Lambeth BRIXTON HILL__________ 19.81% 16.34%
Lambeth HERNE HILL____________ 19.72% 15.01%
Southwark Newington___________ 17.47% 21.22%
Southwark Cathedrals___________ 17.42% 17.09%
Southwark Chaucer_____________ 17.19% 17.56%
Lambeth STREATHAM HILL_______ 16.81% 15.72%
Southwark The Lane____________ 16.5% 13.32%
Southwark Peckham Rye_________ 16.34% 14.05%
Lambeth COLDHARBOUR__________ 15.85% 12.39%
Southwark East Dulwich_________ 15.74% 14.56%
Lambeth TULSE HILL____________ 15.65% 12.62%
Southwark South Camberwell_____ 15.46% 11.39%
Southwark Grange______________ 15.4% 16.25%
Lambeth THURLOW PARK_________ 15.25% 13.18%
Southwark East Walworth________ 14.98% 14.81%
Lambeth ST.LEONARD'S__________ 14.79% 14.63%
Lambeth OVAL__________________ 14.77% 14.31%
Lambeth VASSALL_______________ 14.71% 15.76%
Lambeth BISHOPS_______________ 14.71% 13.85%
Lambeth STREATHAM WELLS_______ 14.39% 14.12%
Lambeth STOCKWELL_____________ 13.32% 12.63%
Southwark Riverside_____________ 13.11% 13.33%
Lambeth FERNDALE______________ 13.04% 10.46%
Lambeth KNIGHT'S HILL__________ 12.72% 11.48%
Southwark Brunswick Park_______ 12.52% 10.96%
Southwark Rotherhithe__________ 12.38% 11.18%
Lambeth THORNTON____________ 12.18% 10.97%
Southwark Nunhead_____________ 12.03% 8.00%
Lambeth CLAPHAM COMMON______ 11.67% 12.05%
Lambeth GIPSY HILL____________ 11.53% 8.83%
Southwark Village_____________ 11.46% 8.24%
Lambeth PRINCES______________ 11.37% 9.47%
Lambeth Postal________________ 11.34% 9.4%
Southwark Surrey Docks________ 11.26% 11.32%
Lambeth CLAPHAM TOWN_______ 11.14% 9.51%
Southwark Postal______________ 11.09% 9.89%
Lambeth LARKHALL_____________ 10.82% 10.14%
Southwark South Bermondsey____ 10.38% 10.45%
Southwark College_____________ 10.31% 8.51%
Lambeth STREATHAM SOUTH____ 10.11% 7.87%
Southwark Camberwell Green____ 8.82% 7.62%
Southwark Faraday____________ 8.3% 7.36%
Southwark Peckham___________ 6.82% 4.3%
Southwark Livesey_____________ 6.38% 6.48%
As Peter Snow used to say, just a bit of fun, but here is the conclusive statistical proof that some Brixtonians are the least sheep like of all South London voters in Labour held wards.
Ward........................................Ken %....Ken%
...............................................less.......less
...............................................Labour%.Shawcross %
Lambeth BRIXTON HILL__________ 19.81% 16.34%
Lambeth HERNE HILL____________ 19.72% 15.01%
Southwark Newington___________ 17.47% 21.22%
Southwark Cathedrals___________ 17.42% 17.09%
Southwark Chaucer_____________ 17.19% 17.56%
Lambeth STREATHAM HILL_______ 16.81% 15.72%
Southwark The Lane____________ 16.5% 13.32%
Southwark Peckham Rye_________ 16.34% 14.05%
Lambeth COLDHARBOUR__________ 15.85% 12.39%
Southwark East Dulwich_________ 15.74% 14.56%
Lambeth TULSE HILL____________ 15.65% 12.62%
Southwark South Camberwell_____ 15.46% 11.39%
Southwark Grange______________ 15.4% 16.25%
Lambeth THURLOW PARK_________ 15.25% 13.18%
Southwark East Walworth________ 14.98% 14.81%
Lambeth ST.LEONARD'S__________ 14.79% 14.63%
Lambeth OVAL__________________ 14.77% 14.31%
Lambeth VASSALL_______________ 14.71% 15.76%
Lambeth BISHOPS_______________ 14.71% 13.85%
Lambeth STREATHAM WELLS_______ 14.39% 14.12%
Lambeth STOCKWELL_____________ 13.32% 12.63%
Southwark Riverside_____________ 13.11% 13.33%
Lambeth FERNDALE______________ 13.04% 10.46%
Lambeth KNIGHT'S HILL__________ 12.72% 11.48%
Southwark Brunswick Park_______ 12.52% 10.96%
Southwark Rotherhithe__________ 12.38% 11.18%
Lambeth THORNTON____________ 12.18% 10.97%
Southwark Nunhead_____________ 12.03% 8.00%
Lambeth CLAPHAM COMMON______ 11.67% 12.05%
Lambeth GIPSY HILL____________ 11.53% 8.83%
Southwark Village_____________ 11.46% 8.24%
Lambeth PRINCES______________ 11.37% 9.47%
Lambeth Postal________________ 11.34% 9.4%
Southwark Surrey Docks________ 11.26% 11.32%
Lambeth CLAPHAM TOWN_______ 11.14% 9.51%
Southwark Postal______________ 11.09% 9.89%
Lambeth LARKHALL_____________ 10.82% 10.14%
Southwark South Bermondsey____ 10.38% 10.45%
Southwark College_____________ 10.31% 8.51%
Lambeth STREATHAM SOUTH____ 10.11% 7.87%
Southwark Camberwell Green____ 8.82% 7.62%
Southwark Faraday____________ 8.3% 7.36%
Southwark Peckham___________ 6.82% 4.3%
Southwark Livesey_____________ 6.38% 6.48%
Hi Jean-Luc,
Just out of curiousity, what makes you think she appealed to black voters?
Was there a survey done somewhere?
I am not surprised by those scores at all. It looks like only her friends and family voted for her.
But to answer your question, and I'm speaking from my personal point of view here as a black woman, so please don't take it as applying to everyone: the ethnicity of the candidate will never affect my voting unless I am torn between two parties/candidates equally. Where some people would toss a coin, or pick the one who was better looking, I just might decide on ethnicity. Only just.
Also, remember that this was the candidate for Lambeth and Southwark, not Brixton. Areas like Peckham are overwhelmingly African and there is a lot of anti-caribbean sentiment there. If you've ever had your hair done in a salon in Peckham or Brixton, you will hear some very hostile, downright racist identical comments, only that the former will be anti caribbean and the latter anti-african.
However, one thing that does unite these two groups is their religion. Christianity is a big deal in both communities. If you are a member of the pentecostal or charismatic church, then it is by definition the most important thing in your life, and many people will identify as "born again Christian", way before black. Many of these people will be voting for Christian parties.
Don't forget that Left List is part of the Respect Coalition which to many Christians is a muslim party. I would bet that many pentecostalists would rather vote for the BNP than a Muslim Party.
I also think that people misunderstand the support that socialist parties have among ethnic minorities. I've had a conversation with someone who voted for Respect in tower hamlets local elections and from what I gathered, the support had nothing to do with ideology or beliefs, but more to do with the fact that the local candidate who knocked on their door spoke Bengali or something. It had nothing to do with socialism.
Finally, I like to think of myself as someone who is politically aware and takes a keen interest in politics - I had heard little of Katt Young before now, only of Lindsey German and did not know until your post that Katt was black!
If I didn't know that she was black, and I paid a lot of attention during the GLA campaign, then it's safe to assume that very few people knew this and she would have lost out on any potential votes of those who were looking to vote for a black candidate.
