£25 Congestion Charge for gas guzzlers is a go

[T & P]

Jesus - what kind of crap system do DVLA use such that you can't get it downloaded onto a CD overnight and lost in the post like most other government databases?!

What is the width limit on this bridge, anyway?

And how wide a car is too wide in your opinion? My Transit is 2 metres wide and that will fit through most width limits I come across. At the other extreme my old Herald is very skinny compared even with most modern hatchbacks.

A lot of how quickly or slowly people will drive through a narrow gap is down to driver self-confidence.

I have watched some people edge their way at a crawl through a gap with a foot either side, and then other people go pretty sharpish through a space with a tiny amount of leeway....

Giles..

Normal cars have to go slow but few people have to brake and snail their way through. Most 4x4 drivers have to though- certainly the Land/Range Rovers, Cayennes and other such vehicles.

Ironically vans find it a bit easier as their mirrors are higher and there is no danger of them hitting the bollards.

 

[citydreams]

Why? And why was it brought in in the first place? Surely LPG or whatever is still fossil fuel?

I remember at the time thinking that spending big money on converting a car to use this was a bit risky because you were totally at the mercy of changes in some quite arbitrary tax rules to make it worthwhile.

Giles..

They're being phased out because we have a clear remit to reduce CO2. Not too sure why it was brought in, it was before my time. But I would hazard a guess that it was because the Energy Saving Trust intitally had them included on their PowerShift register.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Folks were taking the mickey by converting massive 4x4s to run on LPG and driving in for free whilst dinky cars have to pay.

Does raise an interesting question though- if you have a band C vehicle converted to LPG then your emissions should be under 120 g/km because LPG produces 20% less CO2- but I don't think you qualify for this new exemption.

 

[citydreams]

No, you wouldn't - not for a good while anyway due to the sheer complexity of having to decide on a case by case basis.

A similiar argument is used against LEZ as petrols have improved, making old euroII vehicles euroIII compliant.

It's much easier just to go with the maufacturer's VED banding. But we know that even that is far off what CO2 g/km motors actually produce in urban driving cycles.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

A similiar argument is used against LEZ as petrols have improved, making old euroII vehicles euroIII compliant.

You mean diesel fuel, surely?

It's much easier just to go with the maufacturer's VED banding. But we know that even that is far off what CO2 g/km motors actually produce in urban driving cycles.

Aye, it isn't such an issue if they are all equally wrong, but if one is particularly good at 'cycle beating' then it skews the figures. Yes Toyota Prius I *am* looking at you

 

[citydreams]

You mean diesel fuel, surely?

I thought diesel was a type of petrol

Aye, it isn't such an issue if they are all equally wrong, but if one is particularly good at 'cycle beating' then it skews the figures. Yes Toyota Prius I *am* looking at you

Not just them. It is rumoured that some manufacturers have gone so far as putting chips into the fuel system designed to match the NEDC cycle.

 

[Cobbles]

They're being phased out because we have a clear remit to reduce CO2.

Who has a clear remit to reduce CO2?

 

[citydreams]

Who has a clear remit to reduce CO2?

TfL and the London Development Agency.

 

[Cobbles]

TfL and the London Development Agency.

Oh - unelected bodies/quangos.


So how does TFL and the london Development agency reduce CO2?

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Citydreams, do you know how they work out the CO2 figures from that NEDC cycle? Do they look at the fuel burnt and then convert MPG to g/km or do they actually measure the CO2 coming out of the exhaust or what

(interested to know)

 

[citydreams]

Oh - unelected bodies/quangos.

if the order comes from the GLA, how could it possibly be an unelected body? or are you being deliberately stupid

So how does TFL and the london Development agency reduce CO2?

why do you care?

 

[citydreams]

Citydreams, do you know how they work out the CO2 figures from that NEDC cycle? Do they look at the fuel burnt and then convert MPG to g/km or do they actually measure the CO2 coming out of the exhaust or what

(interested to know)

The cars (or whatever) are put on a runner with a driver trying his harderst to follow the NEDC readout - ie. speed up to 30mph now, stay at 30 mph for 2 mins, drop to 20 mph now.. &c.

Anything that comes out of the exhaust goes into a type of distillery process, with the emissions being filtered into their respective parts.

The CO2 is then weighed, and averaged across the cycle.

In reality it is a little bit more advanced than that... there is a formula that is used to calculate a speed-CO2 curve.

More advanced methods exist, such as that being used by the Institute of Transport Studies that also takes acceleration into account but there's not much hope of getting that into the manufacturer's requirements.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Thanks for that, CD

 

[KeyboardJockey]

A) because you're breaking the law by driving something over 2 tonnes over a weak bridge

B) it isn't arbitrary. It's a limit to prevent heavy vehicles damaging a weak bridge.

Correction I wasn't referring to the bridge more LEZ tax / bollocks.

 

[Cobbles]

if the order comes from the GLA, how could it possibly be an unelected body? or are you being deliberately stupid

It's just that most manifestoes don't usually provide any specifics in terms of how their sponsor will achieve the miracles that they promise. In any event, totting up the number of votes achieved by a "majority" usually reveals that its manifesto received the support of a very small percentage of the total electorate.

The only truly democratic way to gain a remit is through a clearly stated plebiscite, but then Nu Labour don't like that concept since its CC plans were roundly kicked into touch by a huge 3 to 1 ratio in Edinburgh, despite the Council there getting up to all sorts of chicanery like funding the Pro-CC body and allowing then to breach its own regulations by putting up illegal posters on its lamposts and failing in its duty to take them down but refusing to allow the anti-lobby the same privilege.

 

[Pingu]

DLVA updates are every 3 months.

if i could give you a solution that would allow more frequent updates would you be interested?

 

[citydreams]

if i could give you a solution that would allow more frequent updates would you be interested?

Thanks, I would be interested. Could you also get more than the first two characters of the registered vehicle post code?

 

[Pingu]

Thanks, I would be interested. Could you also get more than the first two characters of the registered vehicle post code?

if dvla have the data then yes.

the only potential snag is if dvla wont release the info.

I will do some speaking to people next week and get back to you if it looks feasable. Technology wise its very easy to do.. the problem will be dvla

 

[citydreams]

I will do some speaking to people next week and get back to you if it looks feasable. Technology wise its very easy to do.. the problem will be dvla

Aye, that's where we're stuck already. They're very protective over their data.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Porsche Vs Tony Juniper of Friends of the Earth.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_2wNONPxIoU

Who came out best?