£25 Congestion Charge for gas guzzlers is a go

[KeyboardJockey]

so, basically, 'charge more for people that drive more'? clever, I like it. I wonder if it will ever catch on

If vehicle milage reduction is done via the insurance system we can easily do away with the oppressive cameras and that huge raft of self important minor factotums who police our movements which is what we are getting with Livingslimes policies.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

You muppet, that's not a vested interest. It would be if I was a director of a camera company, but alas I only have the one job - one that's not exactly made any easier by your inane ramblings and groundless accusations.

Still earning money out of the situation though aint you. Looks very much like a vested interest to me.

Works both ways though. I've got a vested interest in arms control as that is the area I work in.

 

[citydreams]

If vehicle milage reduction is done via the insurance system we can easily do away with the oppressive cameras and that huge raft of self important minor factotums who police our movements which is what we are getting with Livingslimes policies.

o rly? so, how would you measure levels of congestion? how would you calibrate your transport models? how would you answer questions about frequency of movement? how would you calculate economic benefits of scheme proposals? how would you predict future levels of growth, car ownership, air quality....

 

[citydreams]

Still earning money out of the situation though aint you.

I would be earning money whatever the policy chosen, so it makes no odds to me.

 

[editor]

Much as I hate defending spycams, we have reached a point when the basic right to 'drive wherever you want whenever you want' cannot be upheld.

Indeed. Driving around in a big car is not a 'right'.

 

[London_Calling]

No follow the fucking money.

Yep, all the way to the new bike scheme.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

It's a hard decision to call - there will always be some group that does less well in social inclusion terms. Tfl thought long and hard about where to draw the lines but they had to choose somewhere.

Fair enough. To my mind, a better idea would have been a 50% discount for a wider range of cars- perhaps bands A, B *and* C plus older cars under say 1.3.

That would allow everyone to make a better vehicle choice (including low income motorists and families who need a mid-size car) whilst still providing a dis-incentive to drive in regularly (20 pounds a week of C-charge).

 

[Santino]

Is it true that Season 6 of The Wire will focus on the introduction of a congestion charge in Baltimore?

 

[London_Calling]

Omar: "A man has to live by his Highway Code"

 

[skyscraper101]

Come at the king, you best pay your congestion fee, aight.

 

[Jazzz]

The school run is a serious cultural change that needs reversing. There is gridlock at 9 am in the town I grew up in now. Many of those kids live within walking distance. Nearly all of them live within cycling distance.

We need dedicated school buses and a culture that sees driving your kids to school as a socially unacceptable thing to do.

IIRC, schools have codes of conduct which their pupils must adhere to.

Cannot they simply include 'do not arrive at or near the school gates in a car'?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Indeed. Driving around in a big car is not a 'right'.

Innit, it's very odd when people claim things like that are.

 

[T & P]

IIRC, schools have codes of conduct which their pupils must adhere to.

Cannot they simply include 'do not arrive at or near the school gates in a car'?

A few around my work in Chelsea do just that due to the appalling congestion and gridlock parents cause- specially when they insist on using monster trucks for it. But some parents simply drop their kids arond the corner instead.

Hopefully the new £25 charge will make some of them think twice.

 

[Jazzz]

My aunt owns a Range Rover and lives in Willesden Green. I don't think she'll be in favour of this. She can afford it though. Amusingly, she has tinted windows. I don't think anyone pointed out that Range Rovers with tinted windows usually carry gangsters

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Yep, all the way to the new bike scheme.

Which will be a total disaster. A publicity gimmick to bolster Livingslime and take voters minds off of the Lee Jasper morass and other murky areas.

 

[skyscraper101]

Livingslime

Livingslime

 

[co-op]

Which will be a total disaster.

Why do you think so? I don't really know many details about it yet.

I usually assume that schemes like this (eg bike lanes) are devised and implemented by people who have clearly never stood within 10 feet of a bike let alone used one but you sound like you have actual reasons for thinking this is a non-runner.

The Paris one is doing quite well last I'd heard (but Paris arguably lends itself better to cycling than London does - it also sounds like they've been pretty thorough about putting in safe lanes for cyclists etc)

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Why do you think so? I don't really know many details about it yet.

I usually assume that schemes like this (eg bike lanes) are devised and implemented by people who have clearly never stood within 10 feet of a bike let alone used one but you sound like you have actual reasons for thinking this is a non-runner.

The Paris one is doing quite well last I'd heard (but Paris arguably lends itself better to cycling than London does - it also sounds like they've been pretty thorough about putting in safe lanes for cyclists etc)

I can easily see a lot of the bikes being thieved quite early on. The bikes will not tempt non cyclists back on the roads, the cycle routes will probably be ones that go right round the houses and out of the way, then you have to add in the fact that this is most probably an election gimmick and will be under resourced and will also cause resentment from other road users when they see whole swaithes of road carved off for cyclists but being unused for most of the time.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can easily see a lot of the bikes being thieved quite early on. The bikes will not tempt non cyclists back on the roads, the cycle routes will probably be ones that go right round the houses and out of the way, then you have to add in the fact that this is most probably an election gimmick and will be under resourced and will also cause resentment from other road users when they see whole swaithes of road carved off for cyclists but being unused for most of the time.

Make the bike lanes and the cyclists will come.

There are already many more bikes on the road than a few years ago. This, done properly, can only help.

 

[London_Calling]

Which will be a total disaster. A publicity gimmick to bolster Livingslime and take voters minds off of the Lee Jasper morass and other murky areas.

Of course!

I suspect one point you may have overlooked is that the £25.00 is a deterrent i.e. the idea is to collect of it as little as possible, and if £25 isn't enough of a deterrent, it will go up further.

 

[mauvais]

resentment from other road users when they see whole swaithes of road carved off for cyclists but being unused for most of the time.

Ha, that again. Pouvre pouvre car drivers.

 

[Xanadu]

BUT...

If you're a resident of the zone you can get 90% discount. Which means the Kensington & Chelsea brigade can get to drive their cars around for, er.. £2.50

I can't see THAT putting them off tbh

Which is why the west london expansion was a terrible idea...

 

[Xanadu]

Nope. If you drive a car with emissions higher than 226, you have to pay 25 quid even if you live in the zone. Ahahahaha

Yay

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Of course!

I suspect one point you may have overlooked is that the £25.00 is a deterrent i.e. the idea is to collect of it as little as possible, and if £25 isn't enough of a deterrent, it will go up further.

I don't actually believe this. For an elected official, the major has few tax-raising powers so it would surprise me if he didn't want this revenue.

 

[Xanadu]

KJ, remind me - why are you so against the CC?

 

[trashpony]

KJ, remind me - why are you so against the CC?

Because he's got a big fuck off car which he's going to have to pay 25 quid to drive into London now

 

[KeyboardJockey]

KJ, remind me - why are you so against the CC?

Because it is anti freedom of movement and discriminates against those who may need to bring a vehicle in to central london occasionally and are thereby prevented from doing so. I also have a massive problem with the surveillance and spying network that Livingslime has set up to run this.

I belive that vehicle milage needs to come down but I believe that this can be done by having limited milage insurance policies. I've got a 5k a year policy and I find that this is sufficient to my needs if others need more they can pay more.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Because he's got a big fuck off car which he's going to have to pay 25 quid to drive into London now

Nothing to do with that. Its affecting friends businesses and it is yet another level of oppressive tax and surveillance that we in Britain are now being subjected to.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Because it is anti freedom of movement
.

I have sympathy with you on the snooping front but not on freedom of movement. Your right to drive where you want when you want conflicts with my right to breathe clean air. A balance between our two conflicting 'rights' needs to be struck.

 

[trashpony]

Nothing to do with that. Its affecting friends businesses and it is yet another level of oppressive tax and surveillance that we in Britain are now being subjected to.

I was teasing

Seriously though, what kind of business does someone need a 4x4/3litre car for in Central London?