When the smoke has cleared

[Buddy Bradley]

Just thought I'd start a thread for discussion of the events in America, rather than the current reporting of breaking news on the other threads.

So what do we all think?

Can we draw one tiny element of goodness from this, in that it will maybe make America think again about it's apparent invincibility in the modern age, or will this only serve to make them worse than ever?

Is war really a possibility? And if it is, should (not would, because we obviously will be) we be involved?

If it turns out not to be a middle-eastern group that has done this, what will that mean?

[salman]

This will play right into the US millitary establishments hands. There will be no hope of stopping Star Wars or any other millitary program - this is the thing that Dubya needed to really kick off the arms race. FUCK!!!!!

[Lily]

The U.S will retaliate, and in a knee-jerk reaction, probably against the wrong people.

[Buddy Bradley]

Hipipol - just who have I claimed solidarity with? I am not an active terrorist, anti-capitalist, or particularly prolific poster; I fail to see how my post could elicit such vitriol. I was merely attempting to separate the analysis from the snippets of news to make the threads easier to follow!

Please don't allow your justified rage (and I'm pretty fucking angry too) to overflow into inane comments on a public bulletin board.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: editor ]

[William of Walworth]

hipipol -- reconsideration time, perhaps? As I saw it, BB was trying (probably prematurely, at this stage) to instigate a general and broader discussion, wider implications etc.

Not sure why you're directing your anger so specifically onto him

W of W

[PatelsCornerShop]

I hope that there will be something good come out of all this. I think I speak in vain hope however.

Maybe it'll make the States think twice before it goes around supporting State terrorism. It will have learned (hopefully) that what goes around comes around and that chickens will come home to roost.

This means a dramatically different approach to the Middle East and hopefully the start of something good (a free Palestine, free Iraq, and end of puppet regimes).

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: PatelsCornerShop ]

[Nemo]

For once, I agree with PCS. Hipipol, your comments are totally out of order and un-called for.

[free spirit]

PCS speaks sense. Hipipol, ease off mate it's been a stressful day and now isn't the time to fly off the handle at people.

Mike please don't throw hipipol off, I value his contribution to the boards (as i'm sure many others do), although not on this occassion.

i have already posted my initial thoughts on the other thread, may be back later when i've had more time to digest this.

love to all, Free Spirit

edited to add: PCS, when and why did you change your post?

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: free spirit ]

[Balddog]

Theres no way that this will make Bush change his policies in the middle east. American public opinion was finally swaying toward the arabs, people were wanting the govt to change its policies...Now the Arab world is seen as pure evil to every citizen in america. Bush will have the FULL support of the people when he increases american involvment in the area and whats worse, he will let Israel off its leash.

The arabs really fucked up with this one..Bin Laden is going to wish he was never born.

[Walter Mitty]

When was Israel ever on a leash?

[Derek]

I think that it is almost definately Palestinian terrorists that are behind these terrorist attacks against the United States in retaliation for the US support of Israel. I don't think that it will do there cause any good at all, though. Surely there must be other ways of opposing Americas' support for Israel than resorting to this. The trouble with all terrorist actions is that innocent people gat injured and killed and that is unacceptable what ever the terrorists' cause.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: steelgate. ]

[NVP]

I'm genuinely concerned about America's reaction to this. I've already heard it described as 'the second Pearl Harbour'. If you think about how America reacted to that ... genuinely chilling.

And hipipol ... you really ought to say sorry. I have absolutely no idea where you're coming from.

[Nemo]

I sincerely hope that they do not take this to the extreme that they took Pearl Harbour, when you think that that ended up with arguably some of the worst atrocities of all time, the A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I hope that they have learned their lesson from history although:

"That men do not learn from history is one of the greatest lessons history has to teach." - Aldous Huxley.

Pax vobiscum, Nemo

[Icarus3383]

I'm entirely in agreement with u NVP - its really scary and we all know that dubbya will be out for blood (just look at his history of retribution ) But i dont know how he can retaliate against a terrorist organisation rather than a country, i mean he cant exactly A-Bomb a group of people and leave the innocents unharmed. If he does attempt this then i dont think that somehow the rest of the world will be too happy ( 'cept mabye his lackey Tony )

[murph]

I think it is obscene to even talk about any good coming from this. It speaks volumes on the narrow minded outlook of many posters that they choose to ignore the appalling suffering of those victims and their families and try to offer simplistic,childish, pseudo political insights before the bodies are even dragged from the rubble.

[Nemo]

Murph, I have seen no one who has reacted not acknowledging the appalling and reprehensible attack. Whatever good can be drawn from it is very obviously cold comfort. I fail to see why you find us obscene and narrow-minded. Have we not ouright condemned the attack? Have we not said that it is vile and dangerous? You have to read all the posts on this before making such a sweeping statement. If anyone was truly doing what you say, they would be treated with the contempt they deserved.

Pax vobiscum, Nemo

[Icarus3383]

I disagree with you Murph. I for one am appaled by the events that have taken place today but that still does not mean that we as people do not have the right to talk about what has happened and to speculate about what will. I'm sure that its what you were doing with the people around you even whilst you were watching the events unfold!

they choose to ignore the appalling suffering of those victims and their families

i'm not ignoring anything but at the same time i'm not just going to sit and morn for no reason. Things like this need to be discussed so that we can learn from the trajedy that has taken place.

[tired+rundown]

As Nemo said any good that comes from this will be a cold comfort.

But, hightened air port security is certainly one thing that may arise from the rubble. Many people have beeing saying (about internal U.S flights) that it was only a matter of time.

[grasshopper]

The arabs really fucked up with this one..Bin Laden is going to wish he was never born.

Fuck me Balddog - do you know something the rest of us don't? Or are you one of these who scapegoats the initially obvious without any requirement for a burden of proof?

Isn't this what happened after after Oklahoma. I guess you'll remember how impeccable McVeighs middle-eastern credentials were

[Lily]

from CNN. The F.B.I. has said they have "...new and specific information that Osima Bin Laden was responsible"

Also an un-named security source when asked if Afghanistan may be targeted said "well i wouldn't move there if i were you"

A knee-jerk reaction? The smoke hasn't even cleared yet.

On some U.S. BB's there are serious discussions about using nuclear weapons.

[Balddog]

Fuck me Balddog - do you know something the rest of us don't? Or are you one of these who scapegoats the initially obvious without any requirement for a burden of proof?

Think what you will but you will owe me an apology when he owns up in the next few days.

[FridgeMagnet]

i doubt it, myself, but there you go. It's not like there's a shortage of suspects.

[vimto]

Check this

[Nemo]

Something you're not telling us Balddog? Advocating nuking Afghanistan is harly an appropriate or proportionate response.

Is Thesite the home of crazy survivalists or something? The people there almost seem to be looking forward to the US response.

Pax vobiscum, Nemo

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]

[Callavera]

I think that it is almost definately Palestinian terrorists that are behind these terrorist attacks against the United States in retaliation for the US support of Israel

And I think that you almost definatly don't know what you are talking about here derek.