View Full Version : What's the Oldest thing in Brixton?
sufilala
21-12-2004, 20:46
Well, what do you reckon?
i found a stone on bXton rd the other night which said:
W W
1795
i think, i was quite mashed http://urban75.net/ubb/icons/icon7.gif, i took a snap with me phone which came out rubbish, so i'll go back with a camera some time...
so, is that the oldest thing in brixton?
can you find something older??? :D
lang rabbie
21-12-2004, 22:01
Behind the shop premises of no. 95 is a small house; it is a listed building of the late 18th century, possibly the oldest remaining building in Brixton. It was because of the existence of this old cottage that the neighbouring houses and shops came to be built, and to remain, on Rush Common land.
Just found this photo of it that must have been taken from the top of a building that was demolished in the late 80s (can't think what the name is of that row of early 90s yellow brick buildings on the site now set back behind the Rush Common building line)
http://jp019.niwi.knaw.nl:8080/oaicat/evaimages/lma/ImageRef/LMA28/L28033AR.jpg
brixtonvilla
21-12-2004, 22:22
The Windmill?
Mrs Magpie
21-12-2004, 22:30
Nah, everyone knows I'm the oldest thing in Brixton....they built it around me....
Donna Ferentes
21-12-2004, 22:40
Amazed it took as long as four posts for the gags to appear. I was working on one about a Housing Benefit claim form.
miss minnie
21-12-2004, 22:50
W W
1795
actually that's just a piece of grafitti outside my flat and it dates from only a few years ago. it stands for...
William of Walworth
Posts: 1,795
the intricately carved 'U75', that once perched atop it, has long since been nicked. aye, william could certainly teach these young whippersnappers a thing or two about tagging!
the council have spent years trying to get us to pay for it's removal. :(
brixtonvilla
22-12-2004, 09:13
Mrs M, I was gonna do that gag... thought it might have been cheeky though.
PacificOcean
22-12-2004, 09:35
It's pushing it a bit but as Brixton Road is an old Roman road does that count as the oldest thing?
Minnie_the_Minx
22-12-2004, 11:07
There's a house on Brixton Hill, top of Josephine Avenue which is supposed to be the oldest house in Brixton (or one of the oldest). Will check
Minnie_the_Minx
22-12-2004, 11:10
"BRIXTON HILL
Coming out of Josephine Avenue into Brixton Hill you will notice on your right the front gardens of a short row of houses on Brixton Hill. These are an example of unliberated Rush Common. Turn left into Brixton Hill. The shops on your left come right up to the pavement, in spite of the building restrictions. Behind the shop premises of no. 95 is a small house; it is a listed building of the late 18th century, possibly the oldest remaining building in Brixton. It was because of the existence of this old cottage that the neighbouring houses and shops came to be built, and to remain, on Rush Common land."
Doesn't say which year though.
The tradition whereby newcomers to Brixton are resented, blamed for the area's ills, live their lives and then in turn start to resent other newcomers to the area and blame them for the area's ills.
That is the oldest thing about Brixton.
And the rest of the country too for that matter.
The tradition whereby newcomers to Brixton are resented, blamed for the area's ills, live their lives and then in turn start to resent other newcomers to the area and blame them for the area's ills.
That is the oldest thing about Brixton.
And the rest of the country too for that matter.
:D
How about the old rectory in Canterbury Crescent? That looks pretty old.
lang rabbie
22-12-2004, 14:35
It's pushing it a bit but as Brixton Road is an old Roman road does that count as the oldest thing?
On that basis - The River Effra
Minnie_the_Minx
22-12-2004, 14:37
On that basis - The River Effra
Bloody typical, Lang appears to put a spanner in the works :rolleyes: :D
On that basis - The River Effra
How on earth can natural feature count? Surely then the oldest rock in Brixton is it... :confused:
PacificOcean
22-12-2004, 14:41
Googling "the oldest thing in Brixton" brings up ZZ Top at the Brixton Academy. :D
Alfie - the Lambeth town Crier
What River Effra? I've looked around and never yet seen one. Urban myth, that's what.
;)
OldSlapper
22-12-2004, 14:52
What River Effra? I've looked around and never yet seen one. Urban myth, that's what.
;)
It's broken out and is flowing along the CHL gutter as we write.
sufilala
22-12-2004, 16:41
http://brikistan.org/Image171.jpg
yeah i wuz mashed :D ... it says 1793, maybe even 1703 ??
lang rabbie
22-12-2004, 17:06
http://brikistan.org/Image171.jpg
yeah i wuz mashed :D ... it says 1793, maybe even 1703 ??
I know I've seen it sometime in the past - where in Brixton Road?
Mrs Magpie
22-12-2004, 18:17
:D
How about the old rectory in Canterbury Crescent? That looks pretty old.
It used to be a school and is 19th century.
Nah, everyone knows I'm the oldest thing in Brixton....they built it around me....
You beat me to it!
Shippou-Chan
22-12-2004, 20:56
I know I've seen it sometime in the past - where in Brixton Road?
in the bit at the end of Villa Road by the grassy area next to the park
sufilala
22-12-2004, 21:19
yeah that's about right (http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=531201&y=175983&z=1&sv=531250,175750&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)
http://railtonroad.com/brikistan/Image170.jpg
any antiquarian got any idea about it's origin?
Brixton's oldest tagger?
the "brixton stone"* (http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/635/London+Stone)?
Mrs Magpie
22-12-2004, 21:22
I'm digging around on this site for clues....full of old maps
www.motco.com/default-Markou.asp
lang rabbie
23-12-2004, 11:05
If anyone is in Brixton Library, the answer to who put the stone there will probably be found in the Reference Section in the Survey of London, Volume 26 St Mary, Lambeth (Southern Area) published by the London County Council in 1956. My guess would be the builder of the original row of houses on the sites cleared to form Max Roach Park
IntoStella
23-12-2004, 11:36
I am. But I can't be arsed. :p
lang rabbie
23-12-2004, 12:01
A potential candidate is this late Georgian property speculator...
[QUOTE]William Winter
Source: Brixton Society website (http://www.brixtonsociety.org.uk/articles.htm)
Probably a complete coincidence with the initials, but Brixton Road was once known as the Washway
Edited to add: This post of mine now proven to be pure coincidence - see post below identifying William Westcombe as more likely candidate
miss minnie
23-12-2004, 12:05
I saw that one last night but dismissed it as coincidence.
I did read somewhere, ages ago and I've forgotten the source, that it is a road marker that was found 'nearby'.
lang rabbie
23-12-2004, 22:28
If anyone is in Brixton Library, the answer to who put the stone there will probably be found in the Reference Section in the Survey of London, Volume 26 St Mary, Lambeth (Southern Area) published by the London County Council in 1956. My guess would be the builder of the original row of houses on the sites cleared to form Max Roach Park
Despite being p*ssed as a newt, I've managed to find my second-hand copy and scan in the following text
Nos 285, 287AND 299—313 (odd) BRIXTON ROAD
Nos 285 and 287, formerly Effra Lodge and Westbourne Cottage
Nos 309-313 formerly Not 1—3 (consec.) Brixton Ville
In 1631 three acres of land, lying on the east side of Brixton Road and called Water Leys or Burdin Bushes, were purchased by Edmond Dent. The land passed into the hands of John Scaldwell in 1675 and after his death became part of the Angell estate. William Westcombe who had a lease of Stiles Farm which adjoined it on the north, east and south, apparently purchased Water Leys from the Angell family. Unfortunately no records relating to the building of the houses on this estate have survived.
It's pushing it a bit but as Brixton Road is an old Roman road does that count as the oldest thing?The Museum of London has a map that shows a Bronze Age (pre-Roman) settlement somewhere in the vicinity of Tulse Hill. If you were really lucky you might be able to excavate something?
Donna Ferentes
26-12-2004, 09:50
Good exhibition, that.
There's some stuff on Brixton Hill that might qualify. I think the White Horse pub used to be a coaching inn. (Or one stood on the site - Does that count?)
And then there's the windmill, of course, though actually I think that's early nineteenth century, and so not as old as the stone.
I think you'd find Rush Common on some pretty old maps.
And in threads about the pubs at Loughborough junction, my young protege, the arriviste Mrs Magpie, has pointed out that there has been an inn on the site of the Green Man since about the twelfth century.
lang rabbie
29-12-2004, 15:36
There's some stuff on Brixton Hill that might qualify. I think the White Horse pub used to be a coaching inn. (Or one stood on the site - Does that count?).
Now I get confused - wasn't the Old White Horse (now Bar Lorca) on Brixton Road the former coaching inn :confused:
Brixton Hill was a notoriously desolate spot, the haunt of highwaymen...
http://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/collage/app?service=media&sp=17346&sp=2&sp=2
View on a hill near the five mile stone on the road to Streatham. In the foreground figures can be seen gathered round a fire while a horse and rider gallop past on the road.
© Corporation of London
Shippou-Chan
30-12-2004, 16:01
yep ... but it used to be the white horse ... but because of the other white horse it became the old white horse
i remember the name change
lang rabbie
30-12-2004, 16:20
yep ... but it used to be the white horse ... but because of the other white horse it became the old white horse
i remember the name change
You're either having us on, or you're the oldest poster on the boards... ;)
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/whitehorse.html has a 1910 picture of Ye Olde White Horse
The "Old White Horse" is also mentioned in EA Sprawson's Practical Billiards (http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/dawson/dawsonPracticalBilliards1904.html), published in 1904 and referring to a match in 1894 - probably about the time that the pub was rebuilt?
Minnie_the_Minx
30-12-2004, 16:25
You're either having us on, or you're the oldest poster on the boards... ;)
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/whitehorse.html has a 1910 picture of Ye Olde White Horse
The "Old White Horse" is also mentioned in EA Sprawson's Practical Billiards (http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/dawson/dawsonPracticalBilliards1904.html), published in 1904 and referring to a match in 1894 - probably about the time that the pub was rebuilt?
Maybe he's thinking of The Windmill and Ye Olde Windmill? :D
[QUOTE=lang rabbie]Now I get confused - wasn't the Old White Horse (now Bar Lorca) on Brixton Road the former coaching inn :confused:
Just checked out the Brixton Hill one elsewhere on this site. Apparently:
'Standing on an historic pub site dating from the early 18th Century, the White Horse used to provide accommodation and stabling for travellers on the Brighton road.'
I'm not sure if that makes it a coaching inn or not.
Donna Ferentes
31-12-2004, 14:13
Isn't that what a coaching inn is? (Or rather, was?)
Mrs Magpie
31-12-2004, 15:17
'... stabling for travellers on the Brighton road.'
I misread this as 'stabbing for travellers on the Brixton Road' and thought "plus ça change"
:o
lang rabbie
31-12-2004, 15:30
Just checked out the Brixton Hill one elsewhere on this site. Apparently:
'Standing on an historic pub site dating from the early 18th Century, the White Horse used to provide accommodation and stabling for travellers on the Brighton road.'
I'm not sure if that makes it a coaching inn or not.
But Mike's picture caption doesn't appear to tally with the information on the Lambeth Archives site that was the source of the picture - was he getting his White Horses confused as well?
Surely, you would rest horses (or even change to a fresh set for your carriage if you were running late for a night's gambling, drinking and whoring with the Prince Regent at Brighthelmstone ;) ) at one of the Streatham inns at the top of the hill - not halfway up Brixton Causeway (as Brixton Hill was then known)
This is making my head hurt!
According to A History Of Brixton (Alan Piper), both White Horses appear as "wayside inns" in a 1790 route map. I assume a 'wayside inn' would serve as a place to rest horses, but I welcome any corrections!
lang rabbie
31-12-2004, 16:28
This is making my head hurt!
According to A History Of Brixton (Alan Piper), both White Horses appear as "wayside inns" in a 1790 route map. I assume a 'wayside inn' would serve as a place to rest horses, but I welcome any corrections!
I stand corrected, so they do!
http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/lambeth/maps/01309-350.jpg
The Road from London towards East Grinstead, 1790
Map from 'Cary's Survey of the High Roads from London' printed for J. Cary, Engraver & Map seller, July 1st 1790
A Map showing the London to East Grinstead road. This map runs from south to north.
The road followed the Roman route south to Brighton from the Thames at Southwark through Kennington and Brixton to Streatham Wells to its south.
Tollgates and landmarks are listed and numbered.
Streatham Wells and the Well House are prominently marked to help visitors travelling there for the mineral waters, this being an important coach route out of London.
http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/lambeth/maps/london-to-east-grinstead-1790.htm
I stand corrected, so they do!Pah! Lambeth Archives, Shlambeth Schlarchives!
PS I'm always happy to receive interesting, new articles for the Brixton section! (large hint)
sufilala
31-12-2004, 17:14
that map is beautiful LR thanks! :D
Stobart Stopper
31-12-2004, 19:11
so, is that the oldest thing in brixton?
can you find something older??? :D
Mrs Magpie, perhaps? ;)
*runs away fast*
Wee Beastie
03-01-2005, 02:39
Ach, the oldest thing in Brixton I know of is the old tree on josephine Ave. Apparently queen lizzy the 1st used to tie her boat to it. Tis a protected tree you know.
Must be pretty old, ay.
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.