View Full Version : Youth Hostel in Brixton
gaijingirl
29-11-2004, 09:33
A while ago someone mentioned that there is a youth hostel on Brixton Hill. I've been asked through my family in Dublin to help someone who is coming over to see summat at Brixton Academy find a B&B or accommodation of some sort. I did offer to let them stay with me, but my aunt works with this person and would prefer them not to stay with me apparently!! :eek:
Does anyone know the details of it?
gaijingirl
29-11-2004, 10:51
Found it myself! Sorry to waste anyone's time.......here's info on all the accommodation I could find (some from on here) in case anyone is interested:
Name: Duke of Edinburgh (apparently rents out rooms)
Address: 204 Ferndale Road
Phone: (020) 7924 0509
There's also a guesthouse on Josephine Avenue
No 7 Guesthouse 7 Josephine Avenue, London SW2
Victorian B&B in run by friendly gay couple. 5 minutes walk from Brixton centre.
0870 741 6740
and there's a YMCA, but I think it mostly houses asylum seekers, not sure if it takes random visitors.
YMCA, King George's House, 40 Stockwell Road, Stockwell, London, SW9 9ES, UK Map
Tel:020 75019795
Fax:020 7501 8005
There's also the Raleigh Hostel up Brixton Hill. Again, not sure if it takes random visitors. Found it on a website for shelters.
3-4 Raleigh Gardens, London, SW2 1AB
Telephone: 02086716621
There's also a Comfort Inn in Vauxhall.
http://www.comfortinnvx.co.uk/
Minnie_the_Minx
29-11-2004, 10:51
A while ago someone mentioned that there is a youth hostel on Brixton Hill. I've been asked through my family in Dublin to help someone who is coming over to see summat at Brixton Academy find a B&B or accommodation of some sort. I did offer to let them stay with me, but my aunt works with this person and would prefer them not to stay with me apparently!! :eek:
Does anyone know the details of it?
That would be me. Not sure if it's still there but it's at Raleigh Gardens, can't remember number, but it would be between 10-20.
Sorry, used to stay there before it was a hostel but never noticed number :o
Minnie_the_Minx
29-11-2004, 10:53
Actually, it could be this place
http://www.touchlondon.co.uk/comdir/cditem.cfm/80361
gaijingirl
29-11-2004, 10:55
Thanks Minnie!! :)
I just phoned the Raleigh Hostel...the guy said it's no longer a hostel and had no rooms whatsoever. he was kinda vague about it but it does seem to have gone.
oh and the place on Josephine Avenue...the number isn't recognised
only other place i know off in the area is Leigham Court Hotel in Streatham Hill 020 8677 7171; last time I dealt with them it was £65 a night...Comfort Inn is prob around the same
actually, i just re-read your first post; the fleapit hostels in Victoria would be an option too if the person is just coming over for a gig at the Academy
gaijingirl
29-11-2004, 22:10
Thanks again. I don't know why my Mum doesn't just tell my aunt that her colleague can stay with me... there's nothing wrong with my flat and it's hardly going to be Vivaldi's 4 seasons at The Academy, so presumably this person will manage without an en-suite bathroom!
Anyway..done me best!!!
Cheers!
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 10:58
No 7 Josephine Avenue IS a hostel for gays, not just run by gays. Do you think they'd turn down your friend if they were straight?
You could try this number that I found although it's listed as 0181 and not 0208 so it might have changed since then
020 8674 1880
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 10:59
Just found another website that says "No 7 is an exclusively Gay and Lesbian Guesthouse"
Back to the drawing board
Just found another website that says "No 7 is an exclusively Gay and Lesbian Guesthouse"
Back to the drawing board
Surely that is discrimination? Imagine a heterosexual-only B&B. Is it even legal?
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 11:33
Poor fanta! Are those nasty gay people oppressing you? ;)
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 11:34
Imagine a heterosexual-only B&B.
It's not difficult really, is it? They just don't have have signs up outside saying NO GAYS. They simply turn out to be mysteriously full up at times.
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 11:34
Surely that is discrimination? Imagine a heterosexual-only B&B. Is it even legal?
Yes, but they really don't want a load of homophobic guests do they?
It's not difficult really, is it? They just don't have have signs up outside.
Sure some bigots run them, but it's still wrong.
Yes, but they really don't want a load of homophobic guests do they?
This might astonish you - but not all straight people are homophobic...
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 11:37
Sure some bigots run them, but it's still wrong.
Hence the need for establishments where lesbians and gay men feel comfortable. Why should they put up with homophobia?
Hence the need for establishments where lesbians and gay men feel comfortable. Why should they put up with homophobia?
They shouldn't, it should be against the law and those guilty prosecuted.
What next?
Black only pubs to ensure they can drink free from racists and vice versa for whites?
Segregation is bollocks
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 11:40
This might astonish you - but not all straight people are homophobic...
Yeah, I know that but it's probably easier for them to just categorise it as a "gay and lesbian only" place rather than ask a straight person when they phone up "are you homophobic"? :D
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 11:42
They shouldn't, it should be against the law and those guilty prosecuted.
What next?
Black only pubs to ensure they can drink free from racists and vice versa for whites?
Segregation is bollocksIt's your argument that's bollocks. But then why should gays, black people et al be deprived of your superior, enlightened, liberal, white male heterosexual wisdom?
You just don't get it, do you? perhaps you could knock on the doors of their B&B rooms and deliver them a lecture on the evils of ignoring people like yourself.
Yeah, I know that but it's probably easier for them to just categorise it as a "gay and lesbian only" place rather than ask a straight person when they phone up "are you homophobic"? :D
They could just say: 'we regularly have gay and lesbian visitors, we welcome straight people too unless they're bigots in which case they can fuck off!'
It's your argument that's bollocks. But then why should gays, black people et al be deprived of your superior, enlightened, liberal, white male heterosexual wisdom? You just don't get it, do you?
You are entitled to hold the view that segregation is okay IntoStella! :)
Segregation now!
Segregation tomorrow!
Segregation forever!
Right?
(Did you grow up in Alabama by the way?)
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 11:45
You are entitled to hold the view that segregation is okay IntoStella! :)
Segregation now!
Segregation tomorrow!
Segregation forever!
Right?
(Did you grow up in Alabama by the way?)Poor even for you.
Why don't you go and tell some of those evil gay people how they should think? Tell them they really must stop oppressing you, you poor flower.
Poor even for you.
Why don't you go and tell some of those evil gay people how they should think? Tell them they really must stop oppressing you, you poor flower.
I'm not claiming to be oppressed, I just think segregation is wrong and divisive - literally.
Here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1362581,00.html
That'll cheer you up! :)
Donna Ferentes
30-11-2004, 11:48
I think it is possible to detect some difference between segregation and the provision of extra facilities for those who are underprovided for generally.
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 11:50
Well they could always hang a big sign outside saying "lots of our guests are gay but we welcome straights". Maybe they don't WANT to bring attention to themselves
Well they could always hang a big sign outside saying "lots of our guests are gay but we welcome straights". Maybe they don't WANT to bring attention to themselves
But they're bringing attention to themselves by being gay-only.
Surely better to leave potential customers in no doubt that bigots will not be welcome...
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 12:07
Well they could always hang a big sign outside saying "lots of our guests are gay but we welcome straights". Maybe they don't WANT to bring attention to themselves Maybe they don't want anybody coming round and enlightening them about how bigoted they are with bricks in the middle of the night.
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 12:10
But they're bringing attention to themselves by being gay-only.
Surely better to leave potential customers in no doubt that bigots will not be welcome...
Why? I know plenty of people who could walk down Josephine and be unaware that that place even exists
Minnie_the_Minx
30-11-2004, 12:11
Maybe they don't want anybody coming round and enlightening them about how bigoted they are with bricks in the middle of the night.
Exactly
OldSlapper
30-11-2004, 12:16
I think it is possible to detect some difference between segregation and the provision of extra facilities for those who are underprovided for generally.
I'm still grateful to Fanta for protecting us from evil Shirt Lifters and Rug Divers who wish to oppress good, decent, hard working heterosexual families with no political axe to grind.
Thank you Fanta! You're a Hero of Democracy and True Friend of the Oppressed. Respect!
http://www.geocities.com/nighthawke700/images/gahndi.gif
Fanta fighting for human rights
IntoStella
30-11-2004, 12:17
And here he is again.
http://www.stuart.cann.freeuk.com/Warren_Mitchell.JPG
That Jo Avenue place......
OK, so I'm looking to find a room for some people whom I know to be PC and all that but ain't sure what their sexual preference is? Great.
I'm still grateful to Fanta for protecting us from evil Shirt Lifters and Rug Divers who wish to oppress good, decent, hard working heterosexual families with no political axe to grind.
Thank you Fanta! You're a Hero of Democracy and True Friend of the Oppressed. Respect!
http://www.geocities.com/nighthawke700/images/gahndi.gif
Fanta fighting for human rights
Hahahahahaha!
Hilarious!
Because I think that segregation is a load of bollocks you make a joke about me being homophobic!
Hahahahaha.
You're a comedy genius!
And here he is again.
http://www.stuart.cann.freeuk.com/Warren_Mitchell.JPG
Isn't that a photo of Stuart Warren Mitchell the actor who played Alf Garnet in a great parody aimed precisely at the sort of blinkered thinking that leads to, er, segregation?
Well, duh!
:cool:
Surely that is discrimination? Imagine a heterosexual-only B&B. Is it even legal?
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=750692004
Just helpin' out. I'm with fanta on this. A gay-only B&B is a wankerish thing, but you can't give every wanker a ASBO, eh Mr.Blunkett?
What happens if you're bisexual? :confused:
And how on earth do they get you to prove you're gay if they doubt it? Multiple choices quizes? :D
<rolls on lots of gay stereotypes about clothes etc.>
Donna Ferentes
01-12-2004, 11:43
A gay-only B&B is a wankerish thingWhy? It saves gay couple the hassle and unplesantness of having to explain that they're a couple, avoid stupid comments (and the danger of same) by the proprietor and fellow guests, and so on.
Gay people are given problems by society that straight people are not. Therefore it makes sense to make special provision for them. This does not threaten straight people in any way and to call it "wankerish" (or "segregation") is wilfully small-minded and thoughtless.
Why? It saves gay couple the hassle and unplesantness of having to explain that they're a couple, avoid stupid comments (and the danger of same) by the proprietor and fellow guests, and so on.
Gay people are given problems by society that straight people are not. Therefore it makes sense to make special provision for them. This does not threaten straight people in any way and to call it "wankerish" (or "segregation") is wilfully small-minded and thoughtless.
What you're describing though is a 'gay friendly' B&B rather than a 'gay only' B&B. I understand from my legal expert friend (who I've just consulted) that any business like this that discriminates against somebody on the basis of their identity is in fact illegal - for exactly the same reason that a heterosexuals only or whites only B&B would be illegal.
Donna Ferentes
01-12-2004, 11:50
I'm sure y'learned friend is right. My point though is that there is nothing ethically wrong with the concept, and everything ethically wrong with the criticisms that are being made of it.
What you're describing though is a 'gay friendly' B&B rather than a 'gay only' B&B. I understand from my legal expert friend (who I've just consulted) that any business like this that discriminates against somebody on the basis of their identity is in fact illegal - for exactly the same reason that a heterosexuals only or whites only B&B would be illegal.
on the ball there bob...I've stayed in a gay friendly B&B in Houston, TX and it works very well. They're upfront about it being gay owned and run (all staff are gay from proprietor to cleaners) but take everyone. Just seems so pedantic and 80s PC to say gay only these days.
miss minnie
01-12-2004, 11:55
if the place in jo avenue is run by the chap i think it is then i've propped up the bar with him on quite a few occassions and anti-straight he certainly ain't!
haven't any experience of his establishment but apparently he has run it for a very long time. if it is him then i'd have no problem recommending it to my mother as i'm sure she'd have a fab time! probably more fun than staying with me, anyway. ;)
Minnie_the_Minx
01-12-2004, 11:59
Just for the record, I don't know whether the B&B actually says or advertises it as gay only. I just saw it mentioned it on an internet search whilst looking for the address
Gay people are given problems by society that straight people are not. Therefore it makes sense to make special provision for them. This does not threaten straight people in any way and to call it "wankerish" (or "segregation") is wilfully small-minded and thoughtless.
Black people are given problems by society that white people are not. Therefore...
...black-only B&Bs then Justin?
It would be wilfully small-minded and thoughtless not to after all, right?
if the place in jo avenue is run by the chap i think it is then i've propped up the bar with him on quite a few occassions and anti-straight he certainly ain't!
haven't any experience of his establishment but apparently he has run it for a very long time. if it is him then i'd have no problem recommending it to my mother as i'm sure she'd have a fab time! probably more fun than staying with me, anyway. ;)
yeah that was what i was hoping
can't find a number for the place as the one posted here doesn't work
might wander round and knock on the door
Just for the record, I don't know whether the B&B actually says or advertises it as gay only. I just saw it mentioned it on an internet search whilst looking for the address
Tee hee. So we may be arguing about a non existence sexuality ban! :)
Donna Ferentes
01-12-2004, 12:33
Black people are given problems by society that white people are not. Therefore...
...black-only B&Bs then Justin?If black people were to have problems obtaining accommodation with which they were comfortable then there might well be a case for it. Note that there is an enormous difference between making extra provision and making separate provision, a difference you are choosing to ignore.
Minnie_the_Minx
01-12-2004, 12:43
Tee hee. So we may be arguing about a non existence sexuality ban! :)
Exactly :D But it gives this lot something to argue about doesn't it. I swear people on U75 are only happy if they're arguing :D
If black people were to have problems obtaining accommodation with which they were comfortable then there might well be a case for it. Note that there is an enormous difference between making extra provision and making separate provision, a difference you are choosing to ignore.
Fine you agree with black-only B&B.
As for that difference you talk about - I am not ignoring any difference.
I can see and acknowledge the difference.
Here it is:
I can see that a Gay-friendly B&B (which I support) that received straight customers too is an example of extra provision.
I can see that a Gay-only B&B (which you support) that receives only gay people and does not serve straight people is an example of segregation.
Good to know where we both stand on this issue, huh?
Minnie_the_Minx
01-12-2004, 12:48
yeah that was what i was hoping
can't find a number for the place as the one posted here doesn't work
might wander round and knock on the door
Does this number not work?
020 8674 1880
Every site I look at lists the above number. It's won "Best Gay Hotel" twice apparently. Not cheap though, saw one site that said £59 and that was the CHEAPER price :eek:
I swear people on U75 are only happy if they're arguing :D
I have no idea what you're talking about or referring to... :o
Donna Ferentes
01-12-2004, 12:55
I can see that a Gay-only B&B (which you support) that receives only gay people and does not serve straight people is an example of segregation.No it isn't. Gay people being barred from straight B&Bs would be segregation. Straight people being barred from gay B&Bs, while formally similar, would in reality have nothing to do with the social system known as segregation.
Unless you're really under the impression that straight people would suffer as a result, in a manner that can legitmately be compared to the Jim Crow states. Which would be ludicrous.
However, I would invite you, if you're so concerned, to parade up and down Josephine Avenue with a placard denouncing this outrage. Who knows, in the future it may come to be mentioned in the same breath as the Selma to Montgomery march. Everybody will claim to have been there on that fateful day.
Minnie_the_Minx
01-12-2004, 13:09
I have no idea what you're talking about or referring to... :o
It was your fault anyway, you started it :mad:
Does this number not work?
020 8674 1880
Every site I look at lists the above number. It's won "Best Gay Hotel" twice apparently. Not cheap though, saw one site that said £59 and that was the CHEAPER price :eek:
no it doesn't work and £59 ain;t bad if its clean etc
Minnie_the_Minx
01-12-2004, 13:58
no it doesn't work and £59 ain;t bad if its clean etc
It's obviously a long time since I spent a night in a B&B in this country then :o
The last time I stayed in a B&B was in Gretna Green and it cost £35 per night.
What a shithole that was (Gretna Green, not the B&B) :D
Donna Ferentes
01-12-2004, 14:00
£35 would still be unnecessarily steep in most places to be honest. I stay in a lot of B&Bs around the country and £30 is normally as much as I spend.
IntoStella
01-12-2004, 15:38
No it isn't. Gay people being barred from straight B&Bs would be segregation. . And yet, of course, it happens all the time. But then any attempt to redress that imbalance would be evil and bigoted because it would discriminate against poor old fanta and we can't have that. Sections of society that routinely face abuse and discrimination should jolly well take it on the chin, the moaning minnies.
And yet, of course, it happens all the time. But then any attempt to redress that imbalance would be evil and bigoted because it would discriminate against poor old fanta and we can't have that. Sections of society that routinely face abuse and discrimination should jolly well take it on the chin, the moaning minnies.
Who exactly has been defending anti gay discrimination here?
Your argument appears to be that if one group in society has discrimination practised against it then this justifies that group also practicising discrimination as well. 'An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind'.
Donna Ferentes
01-12-2004, 15:46
Christ Bob, is that really the best you can do in trying to understand arguments for positive discrimination and special provision? Mind you, it's always like that, the same "but it's discrimination!" without any effort even to engage with the argument.
IntoStella
01-12-2004, 15:49
Christ Bob, is that really the best you can do in trying to understand arguments for positive discrimination and special provision? Mind you, it's always like that, the same "but it's discrimination!" without any effort even to engage with the argument.He's a Lib Dem. What do you expect?
Shouldn't bob and fanta be campaigning for all gay bars and clubs to be closed down as these are obviously discriminatory against them by their logic?
He's a Lib Dem. What do you expect?
Shouldn't bob and fanta be campaigning for all gay bars and clubs to be closed down as these are obviously discriminatory against them by their logic?
Only if they go around banning people.
IntoStella
02-12-2004, 13:58
Only if they go around banning people.
Most fatuous post of the year. Honestly!
No place or service; be it a bar, restaurant, B&B, shop, train, bus, school, hospital or whatever, should discriminate against or refuse to serve people because of their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
That is where I stand.
That certain posters are frothing at the mouth in their anger at this says much more about them than it does about me.
:)
IntoStella
02-12-2004, 14:11
No place or service; be it a bar, restaurant, B&B, shop, train, bus, school, hospital or whatever, should discriminate against or refuse to serve people because of their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
That is where I stand.
That certain posters are frothing at the mouth in their anger at this says much more about them than it does about me.
:) You're projecting your own froth on to other people there. You're the one who is screaming blue murder about gay people being able to take a bloody break from the patronising and ignorant opinions of well-meaning (or ill-meaning) heterosexuals.
No place or service; be it a bar, restaurant, B&B, shop, train, bus, school, hospital or whatever, should discriminate against or refuse to serve people because of their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
That is where I stand.
That certain posters are frothing at the mouth in their anger at this says much more about them than it does about me.
:)
I see no problem at all in some entertainment venues, for example, only allowing gay people to use them. Watching straight men dance, frankly, puts me off my beer.
Donna Ferentes
02-12-2004, 14:15
No place or service; be it a bar, restaurant, B&B, shop, train, bus, school, hospital or whatever, should discriminate against or refuse to serve people because of their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
That is where I stand.
That certain posters are frothing at the mouth in their anger at this says much more about them than it does about me.No it doesn't. It's the way you simply repeat the same thing without trying to answer the objections to it that causes the frothing.
IntoStella
02-12-2004, 14:20
Watching straight men dance, frankly, puts me off my beer.
You're not alone on that one. :D
No it doesn't. It's the way you simply repeat the same thing without trying to answer the objections to it that causes the frothing.
What, like endlessly posting 'no it isn't' or 'no it doesn't' like you do when you happen to disagree with something?
Oh right, I see what you're saying!
Again.
And again.
And again...
...ZZZzzz
You're projecting your own froth on to other people there. You're the one who is screaming blue murder about gay people being able to take a bloody break from the patronising and ignorant opinions of well-meaning (or ill-meaning) heterosexuals.
I know you mean something here, passionately, but Christ knows what!
You're talking about yourself surely when it comes to patronising suppositions about staright people knowing what gay people want.
In your desperation to be an apologist for segregation you start chucking the accusation of being homophobic in my direction.
Try an get it together, huh!?
Let us have some coherence, perhaps?
IntoStella
02-12-2004, 14:36
<Points at fanta and laughs>
IntoStella
02-12-2004, 14:37
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/125000/images/_127045_garnett150.jpg
OldSlapper
02-12-2004, 14:39
http://www.geocities.com/nighthawke700/images/gahndi.gif
Fanta fighting for Mr BC's right to watch straight men dance
OldSlapper
02-12-2004, 14:40
Stella! You beat me to it!
Arrrgh! Not Oldslapper again with another devastating gag.
I can't breath...
...ugh...
...nurse, the screens!
OldSlapper
02-12-2004, 14:43
Arrrgh! Not Oldslapper again with another devastating gag.
I can't breath...
...ugh...
...nurse, the screens!
Eh? I'm on your side!
What a surreal argument this is becoming. First an apology for being wrong - apparently there is some sort of legal loophole that allows you to discriminate on grounds of sexual orientation - but the government is likely to close this in the near future.
http://www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall/news/single_equality.html
Secondly I consulted a friend of mine who works for Stonewall and he tells me that he's not heard of any gay rights organisation that wants gay only facilities... to quote him 'it's not positive discrimination, it's just discrimination.'
They could just say: 'we regularly have gay and lesbian visitors, we welcome straight people too unless they're bigots in which case they can fuck off!'Well if you are so open minded then just tell them you are gay. I doubt they are going to do any kind of test. I suppose you might have to make some kind of excuse about any partner of the "wrong" gender you bring to your room - but I am sure you can think of something; they are your "best friend" or something maybe?
This is completely different from the issue for "black" people - that is something they can't hide or "opt into" or "opt out of" by anything they say or agree to. Conversely, where you to book into a "gay only" hotel (if in fact such a place really exists outside of your imagination) you are not being judged on your sexuality or appearance, you are in effect saying you agree to behave in a certain way or buy into a certain atmosphere - in other words, if they ask you "are you gay?" what they mean by this and what you might mean by saying "yes" or "no" is very much a subjective thing, and relates to the whole reason the place exists, why the owners have set up a "safe space" or an "alternative cultural zone" and what is expected of guests etc.
The fact is that it is probably perfectly possible for someone to furfill all these criteria without actually ever having had sex with a member of the same gender or even desired to. On the other hand, the confrontational/ignorant/simplistic attitude you have displayed on this thread pretty much illustrates exactly the kind of person they don't want as a guest.
I think it is completely legal for owners to refuse to house people who act like fuckwits or who behave in otherwise inappropriate manner. You would probably be barred on these grounds - ie your mentality and behaviour - not on anything top do with your sexuality.
It's ridiculous to allege segregation, as has been done above.
Segregation implies systematic. widespread separation (particularly when backed by legislation), and is normally used only in the context of race. Its (COD) dictionary definition is:
'enforced separation of racial groups in a community etc'
What's being discussed here is discrimination.
It would be illegal to have a b and b that discriminated in favour of a particular sex, or of a particular race, because that legislation is framed in a way that operates in both directions. But there's no such specific legislation about sexual identity. (And the disability discrimination legislation is quite clear that it is okay to discriminate in favour of disabled people.)
I don't see anything wrong in creating a facility that is welcoming to a group of people who may well be made to feel unwelcome. And if it's being run by a couple of gay guys (as I guess it is), then why the hell should they have to put up with people who treat them like shit?
I might be a bit more sympathetic if the people who are making such a big deal about this had wanted to stay there and been refused. But it's not like that. It's the same old thing that when people who are excluded start to take back a tiny bit for themselves, the people who've excluded them start to wail that they want a share of that little bit.
Good luck to them. If my mother wants to come to town, I'll check them out. (If they're willing to take her..)
IntoStella
10-12-2004, 10:38
Well if you are so open minded then just tell them you are gay. I doubt they are going to do any kind of test. I suppose you might have to make some kind of excuse about any partner of the "wrong" gender you bring to your room - but I am sure you can think of something; they are your "best friend" or something maybe?
LOL! Very good. :D :D It's the same old thing that when people who are excluded start to take back a tiny bit for themselves, the people who've excluded them start to wail that they want a share of that little bit. Word, as I believe the young folk say. ;) :cool:
Donna Ferentes
10-12-2004, 10:41
I suppose you might have to make some kind of excuse about any partner of the "wrong" gender you bring to your room - but I am sure you can think of something; they are your "best friend" or something maybe?Or try "amanuensis".
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