View Full Version : 2004 F1 Championship
Ralf isn't a driver who should be in a 'top seat' though it's getting to the point where there are top seats really worth having and the rest are very good...Jaguar, Jordan and Minardi are the 'also rans'.
I'm sure he'd make a good test driver or something...
I don't buy the Williams problems starting because Berger went...this season's car would have started development well over a year ago, maybe two.
You're right, but with him around i bet the dirty linen wouldn't have been aired so publicly and things would have been turned around...the guy lived and breathed F1, Thiessen to me is very much a BMW suit who looks at the financial benefits.
You can see a relationsio souring quickly, whereas before Berger had the respect of Frank and Patrick and vice versa.
Zonta will replace Da Matta at Toyota for the foreseeable future - Da Matta's poor performance with the B spec car didn't help his case...
Wow! Good move by Toyota I think - Zonta showed promise in the shitty BAR a few seasons back. Wonder if he's in with a shot of the second seat?
Tink Da Matta should go back to where they just turn left to rebuild his career.
thelittlechef
05-08-2004, 23:52
Button is going to Williams next year! I didn't see that one coming! I know he's been contractually close to Williams for a couple of years but I didn't think he'd leave BAR when they're on such an up...
Button and Webber, in a Williams... I know which team I'll be cheering for next year...
Now, ffor any chance of a championship - has anyone found a rule about red cars driven by Germans not being allowed on track?!?
I just read that - and I think Button has made a mistake...
Williams will probably get the third driver on Friday benefit next year which will give them some edge - but I just don't think the car will be good enough...
Be interesting to see Webber up against Button, my money is on Webber...
Who will BAR get then? :confused: Coulthard :eek:
And I don't think anyone could stop Michael winning the drivers championship even if he wasn't allowed to race anymore GPs this season...
I just read that - and I think Button has made a mistake...
Williams will probably get the third driver on Friday benefit next year which will give them some edge - but I just don't think the car will be good enough...
Be interesting to see Webber up against Button, my money is on Webber....
Yeah! That came from left field didn't it, although Frank may have had a contractual finger in Button's future since he ran him a few years ago.
Webber and Button. Two very different personalities. Button seems to have flourished with the BAR team committed to him... especially with the phsyco help from Dave R, whereas Webber doesn't seem to need a lot of team love to do the job.
At Williams. About the only team that don't feel the need to pander to drivers feelings.
I'd put my money on Webber to do the business.
At the same time, I'm shocked to see Button move from BAR. I would have thought he'd see the advantages of staying. Especially with Honda fully on board and after what can only be seen as a gigantic leap in performance over the JV years.
I wonder what Dave R thinks?
And would he take Coulthard? After all he's now got one of the hottest seats on the grid available...
Talk about musical chairs! :rolleyes:
Edited to add: Just read that BAR didn't pick up an option on Jenson, so maybe they were caught napping....
I'm shocked TBH and I think Dave R - if he didn't pick up the option - has made a blunder and I think Jenson has too.
Williams could be in trouble...Webber hasn't proven himself and Jenson is only now getting his shit together. There's lots of internal stuff going on and they can't seem to decide what's going on, so IMO will lose ground. Think i'd pick Webber over Button too in a straight fight but we'll see.
I'd say BAR as well but.....who the hell is going to drive for them now? Sato and DC :eek: They need someone with a bit more experience than Taku and i'm not convinced Davidson and Sato will make a good team - plenty of repaort bills but not many points. Mebbe a chance to sign Hiedfeld or Trulli.
Trulli and Sato...wouldn't be so bad, but if they're not careful they'll start falling back down the grid again.......just as Toyota are on the up :D
The biggest challengers to Ferrari next season will be McLaren and Renault - the strongest driver pairings and potentially very quick cars.
Stop press!
Hakkinen and Mansell to get 2005 BAR seats!
Only joking! :D
Hmm, apparently, Button's agent exercised an option to leave BAR that applies because Honda aren't apparently fully committed...and for some strange reason this clause only had hours until it expired or something?
Dave Richards ain't too happy about it at all - but if Button really did want to go, it'd be pretty hard to stick with BAR and not look absolutely stupid.
TBH I can't find any sympathy for Dave " grand prix" Richards...he's playing a game and prolly game JB an ultimatum...to which his response was :p
So now we have:
Ferrari:
MS + Rubens
Tester: Badoer, Luizzi
McLaren
Kimi + JPM - IMO the best driver combination
Tester: Wurz
Williams
Webber + Button
3rd car: Pizzonia??
Renault
Alonso + Fisi
3rd car: Montagny
BAR
Sato :confused: + ??
3rd car: Ant
Toyota
Ralf + ??
3rd car: Zonta/Briscoe
Sauber
?? + ??
Jag
?? + ??
Jordan
?? + ??
Minardi
?? +??
So, in reality there's still 2 decent drives (BAR and Toyota) maybe more up for grabs. DC, Panis, and Trulli are all in with a shout. Sauber are a decent team and might go for 2 younger drivers, Jag have to get someone with expereince to develop the car, Jordan...well, might seem like a good plan if they are being sold but no one seems to know.
I think BAR and Toyota would be wary of DC..he's not really done very much...and with Trulli still on the market his options might be limited. I'm guesing Trulli is going to end up at Toyota, so really it's BAR and Jag.
If Williams run a third car on friday, will they keep Pizzonia?
Well I quite like Dave R and I DO have a lot of sympathy for him! And I can well understand his fury at such apparently underhand methods.
Dave R has shaken up the sleeping BAR so that it's cometitive, as well as giving JB the chance to redeem himself after Bennetton/Renault where he was going nowhere.
It looks like there's going to be a bit of slanging match over the next couple of weeks. See: Button-gate swings into action. (http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040806/13/5gi4.html)
I don't suppose it will do Jenson much good in the reputation stakes either. Especially if he gets creamed by Webber and then dumped by Williams. There's a lot at stake for him now.
I still can't work out why he's chosen BMW-Williams over BAR-Honda. I can't see Frank changing his driver care package, especially as he's now got Alan Jones part 2 on board.
Strange, strange move to my mind.
But then, what do I know? :D
Problem is what if BAR do have a legally binding contract - BAR will be angry at Jenson, Williams won't have a driver!!
F1 is underhanded that's the way it is - guarnatee that if Jenson had crashed every race, or underperformed they'd be talking to other drivers. I agree it's an dd mvoe when Honda have said they want to continue with BAR :confused:
Dave Richards is still a dick...he's single handedly destroyed the WRC by tryign to make it like F1 - no one should be in control of the WRC licencing rights and run an F1 team. Flavio is no better and I dislike him equally.
Panis is not going to get himself a decent drive next year, he's almost certainly going to retire soon.
Teams will take Trulli over Coulthard - who will soon be on his way out - and will get a seat before Panis anyway.
damaged goods
06-08-2004, 12:12
Woah! Still pretty taken aback by JB's decision, the sly old foxy stoat.
Surely this couldn't have been in the pipeline for that long, maybe even a spare of the moment decision by Jenson, if not then it was a very well kept secret with some very underhanded play by Jenson.
Problem is what if BAR do have a legally binding contract - BAR will be angry at Jenson, Williams won't have a driver!!
I would have thought that Williams legal team have been through Jensons BAR contract with a fine tooth comb before making any decisions. imho, if what we are lead to believe is true, Dave Richards is going to be one very unhappy bunny, with him and his legal team left scratching their heads wondering where they went wrong!
Who will be no.1 driver at Williams? I think Jenson may have joined Williams under the condition that he was no.1 driver but will most definitly have a fight on his hands with team mate Webber.
Still think Jensons made a mistake, but hey, we shall see...
BAR are launching a legal challenge - are we sure this isn't some kind of crap arse publicity wanking stunt?
If the clause to get out was based on Honda not being committed, they recently signed on until 2007 - which is beyond JBs 2005 contract with BAR.
Why the f**k has some plonker gone and started a new thread on this!
Christ, if you started a new thread everytime there was a press release, you might as well just go and read Yahoo!
Bad move IMO! :mad:
It's not that big a deal for someone to start a new thread on a particular matter - I mean, what if a driver got involved in a fatal accident or something?
I think that would merit a thread of it's own...
New thread is a good idea....we're discussing everything here from aero changes to driver line-ups to why Ralf is such a utter cock and underserving of an F1 seat :mad:
It's pretty big news, given the circumstances....I've still not got a clue what's going on. On the surface I think BAR have a case, but Williams claim they've been through the contract with a legal team. But the Honda deal was signed (was it 'signed' or was it announced that they would be signing??) weeks ago.
Someone is going to coem out of this lookign stupid, or in Jenson's case very unprofessional. If BAR have his contract, his reputation will be damaged. Think Williams will still want him so badly next year? Nah...me neither.
It's not that big a deal for someone to start a new thread on a particular matter - I mean, what if a driver got involved in a fatal accident or something?
I think that would merit a thread of it's own...
And I agree. But we're not talking about a driver dying here are we?
And I would have thought that starting a new thread would have been a better idea if it had been at the start of a story rather than half way through! But hey, it seems there's no need to have to jump from one thread to the other as the story has continued here, rather than there!
Still, onto the latest info/disinformation:
I read in the foreign press this morning that Dave R is already in Finland and would be talking to Mika. That would make a very interesting signing.
Jenson says he's pleased to be going to Williams, that he's been loyal to BAR for two years and that's enough for him, but still refuses to meet with Dave R, who has given him until Monday to front up in person and explain why having a mutually agreed contract until 2005 in exchange for his loyalty and a multi-mill £ wage, suddenly has no meaning for him.
There may well be a technicality in the contract that allows him to slide out, but I agree with Dave R on this one. Jenson's option was taken up and agreed by all parties. If there was a technicality it should have been discussed like grown-ups, rather than being used as a spurious excuse to get out of your own commitment.
Based on what I've read so far, Jenson seems to demonstrated a remarkably selfish, and incredibly unprofessional attitude throughout this entire episode so far. And yes, I sympathise very much with the 400 BAR people who have worked their bollocks off so he can get the glory, only to be kicked in the teeth in return. That's not the behaviour of a world champion.
I was keen on seeing Jenson succeed, especially with BAR, but now, I'm sorry, but even if he does become world champion at some stage, he'll have discredited himself and brought the "Sport" (as opposed to the "business") of Formula 1 racing into disrepute, and emphasised to others not just in F1, that it's acceptable to agree one thing and do another regardless of the consequences.
In fact it looks like Jenson's only interest in the Sport, is to financially enrich himself. Unfortunately, at the same time he's diminished his potential stature. Shame.
And yes, I will be cheering on Hakkinen and Davidson in the BAR's next year. And I'll put money on Mika finishing higher than Jenson too!
I really really doubt Mika would be looking to come back...he seems to be whipping up media speculation because he's a bored chap with a lot of kitty. As with all drivers, I'm sure they really miss it once they stop - but he stopped at what sounded like the right time.
As I understand it, Honda signed the continuation at Hockenheim - ie. before Button took off.
I really really doubt Mika would be looking to come back...he seems to be whipping up media speculation because he's a bored chap with a lot of kitty.
You may be correct, but I don't see why Mika needs to do that. It doesn't strike me as the sort of thing Mika would do. That said, I didn't think JB would do what he appears to have done.
No doubt all will be revealed.
As I understand it, Honda signed the continuation at Hockenheim - ie. before Button took off.
That's my understanding as well. And that JB and his management acknowledged his option being taken up soon after the Honda deal was struck.
I read that it's something in Hondas contract to the effect that they can get out if the deal with with BAR if British American Tobbaco walk away with the introduction of the ad ban, or they sell the team on to a no-hoper. That, apparently indicates Honda's lack of commitment according to JB's management.
I have to say, Honda did walk away from the sport and left, ironically enough, Williams in the lurch at the end of the 96 season wasn't it? The year Ayrton after died and Damon was robbed! (Don't crucify me if I'm wrong – my chronology of the sport is pretty rusty...)
And I'm sure Williams have been vocal enough about that over the past few days.
Still a pretty slim excuse in my book.
I have a feeling this is JB chasing the money more than anything...I think he realises he's not that good a driver so he better cash in while his reputation is still good...
Until it's shot down by Webber making him look very ordinary - or just not world championship winning material.
silentNate
08-08-2004, 21:45
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/yawn1.gif
Gascoyne has hinted that Trulli would be coming to Toyota - otherwise Panis would keep his seat.
Pretty loose rumour but Dave Richards might be so annoyed with Button, that he'll get Davidson to race instead of him for the rest of the season. Richards did say such rumours were just that after the meeting with Button.
Bernie Ecclestone has meanwhile weighed in saying that Button could lose his Superlicense (that allows him to race in F1, F3000 and F3 I think?) if he's found to be in breach of contract by trying to go to Williams.
Williams will be ditching the tusk structure front nose.
Ralph Firman, that stinker of a driver, is hoping to get a seat again. Don't know who would take him since he's slow, crashes etc. He just has money really...
The US$48 million entry fee into F1 won't be dropped, making it less likely new teams will join.
Read a piece somewhere that tries to explain the "techicality" that JB is claiming gives him the right to dump on his current commitments.
I think it was the Sunday Times: Button’s argument seems to rest on the definition of the word “intends”. The option BAR had on Button for 2005 depended on him having received confirmation by a certain date that Honda would continue to supply BAR’s engines next season.
Honda confirmed that they “intended” (as opposed to “would”) to supply the engines, which Button’s legal team reckoned was not good enough.
Seems pretty flimsy to me.
I also heard that he was a bit pissed of at the uncometitiveness of the BAR chassis at Silverstone, and that by Germany the deal had been done, despite the fact that he was able to use effectively the same chassis to go from 13th at the start to 2nd at the end.
He's a muppet IMO!
Yep he's a muppet - the more I think of this the less convinced I am - on Speed Sunday, Watson was sayign he was looking for two years time, when the Honda deal finished, Schumacher retires and Williams would be in a stronger position.
I don't buy that argument - sure Williams are a very big team with support from BMW, but BAR are growing and Honda have a deal until 2007 at least. Also, relying on someone else to retire to try and win the WDC smacks of "i'm not really good enough so I need the very best car".
Problem is, even if MS retires, there's still JPM, Kimi, Alonso, Webber, Rubens, plus soem of the younger guys like Luizzi.
I started this season cheering for JB after some of the shit cars he's had and was chuffed when he got pole, but i'm really going off the guy big time.
damaged goods
10-08-2004, 11:35
FIA says that Button drives for BAR in 2005 or doesn't drive at all......hehe that'll teach him!
Can't imagine it'll be that comfortable a season though, can you?
The FIA body which regulates driver contracts has said Button's only valid contract to race in Formula 1 is with BAR Racing
Looks like he's going to be muppet number 1 when this dispute resolves in the favour of BAR...
Schumacher predicts a difficult race in Hungary, Jaguar and BMW will be bringing in significant new parts to their cars and Renault are bringing a new D spec engine.
FIA says that Button drives for BAR in 2005 or doesn't drive at all......hehe that'll teach him!
Can't imagine it'll be that comfortable a season though, can you?
If the eventual outcome is that the BAR contract is the pre-dominant one, I think you'll see a deal whereby Williams have to buy him out of the BAR contract. And I don't suppose the money to do that will come from Franks pocket either...
Jenson may find himself driving for Williams for nothing for a couple of years, and that as you so admirably note DG, will teach him!
Either way, after all the recent recriminations the trust between BAR and Button will have been lost, and even though you have a driver under contract, if he doesn't want to drive for your team, you'll be hard pushed to make him.
I think Buttons' management have really screwed this one up and made him look not only like a complete toss-pot, and a laughing stock within the entire F1 paddock, but an unprofessional one at that.
Yep, Button is going to look like a bit of a twat...but the fault must lie with his management. Either way i've gone off him in a big way....particularly after that interview at the weekend. Oh how i'd love it if Sato went and won in Suzuka :D
Anyhow...so if he is at BAR for sure....who gets the 2nd Williams seat??! IMO they should always have aimed for a youngster to partner Webber rather than Button. Hiedfeld must be in with a shout...mebbe Davidson....god knows....this whole BAR thing has made it very intreresting. But with everythign that has gone on it's time for clear heads - don't let DC get the drive!!
Will people stop thinking Firman is a good driver! Justin Wilson is miles better and deserves a seat. Anthony Davidson is as good as Wilson, so Firman's chances are pretty limited.
damaged goods
10-08-2004, 18:45
As Wordie has said, you can't make a driver drive if he has no wish to and the chances are he will be bought out of his contract with BAR by BMW/Williams.
This then, in theory, creates the perfect opportunity for Dave Richards to give Davidson a drive in Hungary and see how he stands up in race conditions.
Of course one race may not necessarily determine who takes JB's place in the team but it's worth a look - or why not just put JB on gardening-leave and race Davidson instead. I can't see that putting JB back in a BAR car will cause anything but awkwardness and resentment.
JB has stated that he'll put in 100% for the remainder of the season - yeah right, and this constant harping on about being a world champion with Williams is adding such credibility that statement :rolleyes:
I say give Davidson the chance he deserves, I think he could prove that letting him go to another team would be a tad foolish.....plus the fact that DC is the last driver that I would want to see at BAR - chuck him in a Jag and be done with!
I'm not sure if Button can be 'bought out'. Such clauses in F1 contracts are rare in comparison to football ones.
BAR could find reason to terminate the contract but then don't have a way to 'sell him on' and get some money out of it all.
And Davidson won't race this season - I find it unlikely anyway...
I'm just waiting for the ITV spin on it all - they love Button so fucking much if they try and make him look good in this...:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=damaged goods]
JB has stated that he'll put in 100% for the remainder of the season - yeah right, and this constant harping on about being a world champion with Williams is adding such credibility that statement :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]
what makes u think he wouldn't give 100%? Will he drive at 90%? I'm sure this deal has taken a while to set up and it's not affected hs commitment so far and he'd surely want to want to start next season on high by getting that third place. I think BAR are just kicking up a fuss because they want some money from Williams why would you want to force a someone to drive for you?
This deal was set up in hours according to Button's management...
BAR are kicking up a fuss because a driver they've put a lot into has told them to fuck off a year early on an agreement that was made in a mere few hours. It's pretty obvious JB is not committed to BAR at all.
I'm not sure if Button can be 'bought out'. Such clauses in F1 contracts are rare in comparison to football ones.
BAR could find reason to terminate the contract but then don't have a way to 'sell him on' and get some money out of it all.
I agree, but if all sides come to an agreement to end a contract, then it wouldn't be without financial compensation for the team, in this case BAR, that still has a valid contract with the driver for 2005.
Or not. Williams of course are sure they have a contract with Button for 2005. Dave R is trying to establish that BAR has a prior commitment from Button for 2005.
This is going to end in front of a judge who will make a decision on who has the contract for Buttons services in 2005. Either way, it's gonna be messy and confused for a while.
And Davidson won't race this season - I find it unlikely anyway...
I'm just waiting for the ITV spin on it all - they love Button so fucking much if they try and make him look good in this...:rolleyes:
No one is disputing that Button is contracted to BAR for the rest of this season, so I agree, I don't think you'll find the team sticking Davidson into the car "just to give him a run."
What will be interesting is to see how BAR react to having Button – their leading points scorer this season – driving the BAR car for the remainder of the season. No doubt all sides will indicate their commitment to each other for the rest of the season, as Button already has, but will his engineers have the same commitment to getting the best from his car?
Someone (sorry, forgotten who right now) has already said that for the rest of the season both Button and BAR need each other. There's still points to be had and reputations to be maintained.
But will Button actually go as hard as he would have done earlier in the season? Or be allowed to?
Will the BAR factory or indeed Honda be giving Button the 100% effort he's recieved til now? Who get's the latest parts now and how generous will the team be in allowing Button access to the telemetry of the two other cars?
How will this dispute affect the concentration of not just Button but the team? And will Sato go a little crazy trying to prove he's the logical replacement for Button?
I'd put money on Sato winning a race before Button whilst they are in similar cars. And with the help of Honda, the Jap GP could be a blinder...
Watching what happens at BAR for the rest of the season will be fascinating!
I see Gerhard Berger is being tipped for a role with the FIA.
I hope there's truth in that as I have a lot of respect Gerhard and he can bring some actual racing knowledge to what is in effect a pack of bumbling old guys with no knowledge or experience of actual racing.
I suspect he'd be welcomed by the teams as well.
Yep I think Gerhard would be a great choice....good bloke (we've all heard the Barry Sheene + 8 girls story :eek: :D ) and very knowledgable.
Sadly, it's going to take more the Gerhard to make a difference - the $48m entry price has to be dropped as it's a major barrier to new teams joining and they really need to sort out the rules once and for all. Oh, and convince MS to retire ;)
Apparently there may be a dispute about bonus payments that were the straw that caused Buttons management to look elswhere for a new deal.
Check out this (http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040811/13/5jmv.html) story.
I don't think a few small as yet unpaid performance bonuses will be given as the reason he leaves - while we all know he's not got that much talent and is using what luck he's had to make money - he won't make it a big public deal...
Still, this weekend will be an interesting meeting. I'll be interested to see how both Button and the BAR team cope with the pressure.
I'd also be interested to hear how ITV spin the story. (I'm not in the UK so my GP is not brought to me by ITV.)
I'll report back on the foreign slant....
Can't wait to see if Sato beats JB to a better place on the grid, and what happens during the race. Jenson says he's not going to be affected by the flying shit.... I don't see how that could possibly be the case.
And wouldn't it be interesting to see Trulli win this race? Sato 2nd? JPM 3rd?
I wouldn't be surprised if Button's car mysteriously breaksdown during the race...
I think BAR are relying on him socring points so I doubt it...unless they only want a few pionts for 6th position!
Williams nose - the old one:
http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/2004/hungaroring/diapo_008.jpg
The new one:
http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/2004/hungaroring/diapo_010.jpg
That looks a lot better..... let's hope it works better as well!
Well JPM and Ralf both complained of terrible understeer that no amount of set-up chnages could really fix, so the nose must have been to blame.
I think it looks much better with the new nose - hopefully we'll see the resurgence of JPM the master racer rather than the tetchy git we've had all year.
In a way, I can see BAR wanting to make 2nd in the constructors...just very unlikely to do it...though Button 61, Sato 14 does prove a point.
Is the front wing change for BMW going to make it that much faster though? :confused: They are only really racing McLaren in the constructors and their B spec car is probably the second fastest on the grid.
In a straight line..I doubt it..the problem (from what i've read) has been mid-corner stability. Where Ferrari, BAR and even Renault can drive through the corner well, the Williams is very skiddy, so drivers can't get the power down.
That was pretty well demonstrated at Magny Bores in the first few corners - the car was all over the place relative to the competition. Hungary wouldn't be so much of a problem for them, but at places like Spa it will be absolutely critical.
4th looks like their best bet at the moment now McLaren have got it together...guess it's about taking points of other teams - if the FW26b can mix it with BAR and Renault it will prevent McLaren from scoring more points (well okay DC from scoring) and that might help them. OPains me to say it but they really need Ralf back for 2 GPs time or it could be beyond them.
Even David Coulthard doesn't quite know what Jenson is doing by going to Williams. he was quite polite about it.
Montoya wasn't quite as polite - he was branding Button 'crazy' and then slagged off the team he's about to leave this year.
Montoya doesn't mince his words does he? :D
I know he really pisses some people off but i love JPM - says what's on his mind. I agree with him...at BAR the team is focused on Jenson, but at Williams they already have Webber, who it is assumed will be #1 (despite Frank claimining otherwise).
Stories going around that the 'mighty' Pedro De La Rosa will be driving for Jordan next year, with Repsol being the lead sponsor (and paying for his drive) to the tune of $10m :eek: WTF! He was pretty good for Arrows 4/5 years ago but he stank at Jaguar.
Any why do Jordan need $10m.....does this mean they aren't the team being bought by the Dubai consortium :confused: Reallly there's only them and Minardi who are privately owned so it has to be one of them. Unless, they bought the outstanding Prost assets and are going it alone?
I know he really pisses some people off but i love JPM -
Yeah he's good value I reckon, although he can be quite mischievous with his comments. He's a master at head games isn't he?
Webber No 1 at Williams. I doubt it. They've always made two equal cars and Frank always says the drivers are free to race until one has no chance at the title. As it should be! Not like that red Italian team.... :rolleyes:
Williams don't have a clear number 1, but it's pretty clear that they favour one driver over the other...usually the better one. So JPM at the moment.
Off-track, I think he's the sort of driver and character that suits F1. On track, I don't know...he's Eddie Irvine-esque really.
B that's a bit harsh...he does make some silly errors when pushing but he also makes some great overtaking manouvers. If everyone had the same car, i think you'd only see JPM and Kimi even getting close to MS because they know how to drive on the limit.
There's a great video someone, maybe on P2P, of Montoya's pols lap in CART in Detroit...truly one the best single laps I have ever, ever seen - pure commitment.
I reckon if JPM actually became a rally driver, I'd respect him a lot more...I don't doubt his raw ability to drive cars, just what he does when there are other people on the track.
My opinion kind of flows from the fact he tends to be very good at qualifying and is a confident driver (hence the bold overtaking that sometimes comes off, other times...welll).
Yep it's a flaw but everyone has done it...Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Piquet....I think he has the same drive and determination to win as them and sometimes that ends in trouble.
Plenty of people disliked Senna for taking Prost out at the first turn in Japan - and it was a little 'suspect' but that was all part of the package.
My theory is that he shoots his mouth off when it's obvious he was at fault and that gets peoples backs up. Senna kept quiet, but had that glint in his eye :D
I think I agree with the B here he talks the talk but he hasn't quite walked it yet. Maybe he hasn't had the car but all those guys you mentioned did deliver world championships.
I've always wondered why dosen't Senna get more criticism for that incident with Prost in 90? Look at the (imo deserved) ish that Shumacer got when he took out Hill then tried to take out Villeneuve.
Because Prost made up for it ;)
Looks like the Ferrari have the race pace on everyone by about a second :eek: but the competitors are in for a shout on the qualifying pace.
The Renaults look lost...
I'm guessing it'll pan out in the order of Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, BAR, Renault, Toyota, rest...come the race.
More importantly - of all the races (with exception to Monaco maybe) it's predicted to be a wet qualifying and dry race...prepare for more antics in Qualifying 1 perhaps?
I've always wondered why dosen't Senna get more criticism for that incident with Prost in 90? Look at the (imo deserved) ish that Shumacer got when he took out Hill then tried to take out Villeneuve.
Schumacher was in a position to win the championship in both cases. He pulled it off as well in Adelaide, but lost out against JV. They were deliberate actions designed to deny his nearest rival beating him to the championship.
Senna was getting revenge on Prost, who he considered his greatest danger on the track, for a manouver that Prost pulled on him in a previous season when they were both at McLaren. And Senna admitted it too! The circumstances (and the characters) were substantially different.
And besides, Senna did get a lot of shit at the time, but over and above those incidents, Senna was simply light years ahead of Schumacher in terms of character, personality and love for the sport. It wasn't about the money for Ayrton, it was about the glory of the sport and his all pervading self confidence in his own ability, against extremely tough, technical and human competition.
IMO if Ferrari were not as dominant, there were fewer driver aids in the cars, no tyre war, and a few more Prosts' or Sennas' driving today, MS wouldn't have strolled to as many championships as he has. But we'll never really know will we?
I don't want to reduce Schumacher's achievements, they are amazing by any measure, but (again IMO) they have not been achieved within similar contexts to those of a Prost or a Senna. The playing field was considerably more level then, than now. (That's not a criticism of either Ferrari or Schumacher, but a fact of life.)
However, that was ever the way in F1. I think it took more balls for Fangio to win a Championship in his day, than it takes MS to win one today. There's just no possible way to compare really, but I do think Schumacher's cynical moves on Hill and JV marked a boundary of sportsmanship that had never really been crossed before.... even by Senna!
I'm guessing it'll pan out in the order of Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, BAR, Renault, Toyota, rest...come the race.
Yeah, that looks about right assuming we get a dry quali.... It will be fascinating to see what happens if the first part of final quali is dry and the 2nd part wet..... :cool:
It's not Schumacher drove into Hill at Adelaide...it's a replay that's been seen over and over and over. He shut the door when he tried to overtake and Hill was really going for it.
Only in Britain is there this 'everyday' sense that Hill got 'cheated' out of it.
He definately did it deliberately at JV.
Schumacher is just racing for the money? These days, that's pretty hard to justify - his wages are peanuts compared to his accumulated wealth and he puts his life on the line regularly anyway despite wife and kids? He's done the records, he's got loads of money - he could only really be doing this for love of racing.
Ferrari have only really been so dominant in two seasons, 2002 and 2004. Not a huge number of them...people might argue that winning the constructors solidly since 1999 means something else. I would argue that David Coulthard has been at McLaren too long...I think the playing field could be more level none the less.
It's not Schumacher drove into Hill at Adelaide...it's a replay that's been seen over and over and over. He shut the door when he tried to overtake and Hill was really going for it.
Only in Britain is there this 'everyday' sense that Hill got 'cheated' out of it.
He definately did it deliberately at JV.
Well it's blood under the bridge now... It may well be the case that he shut the door on Hill, but I think that's a questionable interpretation since he'd already run off the track and almost certainly damaged his suspension, making a door shutting manouver with effectively a crippled car.... and MS would have been well aware of that, whilst Hill was not.
I would have given him the benefit of the doubt, had he not tried exactly the same thing with JV in Barcelona. Certainly the Williams team were convinced that MS had been er, unsportsmanlike in Adelaide!
That said, as I remember the race, Hill should really have waited until after the corner to get past the crippled Schumacher, then he would have been world champ instead of MS, but of course, he hadn't seen MS hit the wall, and couldn't know that he was racing against a damaged car... so he went for it.
It will no doubt remain a point of discussion for years to come, with those that believe MS did the dirty and others believing it to have been a racing accident. I happen to be of the first school of thought.
It doesn't diminish Schumachers achievements since then, but at the time it left a nasty aftertaste.
I agree with you that he's probably not doing it for the money any more, but then I don't think money was Senna's motivation either.
Ich bin ein Mod
14-08-2004, 11:06
I don't want to reduce Schumacher's achievements, they are amazing by any measure, but (again IMO) they have not been achieved within similar contexts to those of a Prost or a Senna. The playing field was considerably more level then, than now. (That's not a criticism of either Ferrari or Schumacher, but a fact of life.)
But there was one season where McLaren won 15 out of 16 races. Not really level then is it? The only difference is that Senna and Prost were on an even keel whereas Schummi is streets ahead of Barrichello and indeed everyone else.
Plus you have to remember that Schumacher left Benetton after winning two championships in a row to go to Ferrari who were, lets be honest, shit.
But there was one season where McLaren won 15 out of 16 races. Not really level then is it? The only difference is that Senna and Prost were on an even keel whereas Schummi is streets ahead of Barrichello and indeed everyone else.
Well that's precisely the point isn't it? When Prost and Senna won 15 from 16 races for McLaren, they were always racing each other. Similar to the Mansell/Piquet Williams team which simply obliterated the entire (90/91?) season. They were drivers of equal ability left to race each other in equal cars....
If Schumacher had ever allowed a Mika or equivalent to race against him in a team not built around him, I wonder what the results would have been. Almost certainly not what we have seen over the last few years. But that's the way Ferrari have built their team, unlike such as McLaren or Williams who have a different, (more pure IMO) philosophy towards racing.
It's just a different way of going racing to the "garageistes" from the UK, but I don't think it serves the sport in any positive way.
The fact that Ferrari was shit when MS went there and has built the team around him has helped him win as much as he has, with the occasional small crumbs being handed out to his team mates who have never either been allowed to race against him, or have never had equal equipment and development resources, or indeed, have rarely been of the same quality. (Irvine was simply never in the same league as Schumacher! And even after MS broke his leg, Ferrari contrived to stop Irvine winning the championship!)
If MS wants something on his car that he feels will make him quicker, I doubt Rubens would be allowed to challenge that development if it made him slower...
But it's a question of era. And we'll never know the real truth about how good Schumi is when put in an equal car, against a driver of equal talent, because he's never allowed it to happen. Unlike Senna or Prost.
And that to my mind diminishes his achievements in comparison with other champions.
Sato third.......
Button fourth..... on the dirty side of the grid.
I can see the first corner tomorrow:
Schumacher, Alonso, Sato, Barrichello, Button, .... the rest!
What the hell happened to the new, highly competitive McLarens? Tyres excuses don't really cut it at this level!
Ich bin ein Mod
14-08-2004, 16:46
The worst thing Ferrari have ever done imo was to stop Irvine getting the championship. To come out with only three tyres for a pit stop is so obvious it's obscene.
If MS wants something on his car that he feels will make him quicker, I doubt Rubens would be allowed to challenge that development if it made him slower...
But it's a question of era. And we'll never know the real truth about how good Schumi is when put in an equal car, against a driver of equal talent, because he's never allowed it to happen. Unlike Senna or Prost.
And that to my mind diminishes his achievements in comparison with other champions.
According this article (http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm) Senna wasn't above playing his own tricks and stopping Prost getting parts on his car or being over aggresive on the track. I think Scummacer and Senna both have/had a really crazy will to win that sometimes boils over.
According this article (http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm) Senna wasn't above playing his own tricks and stopping Prost getting parts on his car or being over aggresive on the track. I think Scummacer and Senna both have/had a really crazy will to win that sometimes boils over.
Oh sure, Senna was a complete bastard when it came to competitors. When he was at Lotus he insisted that Derek Warwick didn't get the 2nd seat because he didn't want the competition, and his wish was granted. But McLaren was a different matter.
Prost was the incumbent No 1 driver when Senna arrived, and even though there was no love lost between them, Ron made sure they had equal cars and raced accordingly. And it cost them championships too!
But then Mansell always complained that Prost ruined his drive at Ferrari, by being a political animal. And let's not forget that Prost almost did with Ferrari what Schumacher has done in recent years, but was sacked after criticising the car. And Enzo was still alive then...
I think it's the nature of all the brilliant drivers to try to create the ideal situation for themselves within a team.
The difference is how the team reacts to that driver pressure. Williams have always made it clear that drivers are merely tools and that the constructors is the important thing for them. McLaren have always gone down a similar path, albeit a much more marketing savvy version of the same philosophy. And now they, like Williams are bound up into the lethargic and difficult to manage corporate structures of Daimler-Chrysler and BMW respectively, while Ferrari have maintained their independence from Fiat and have Montezemolo as the Ferrari figurehead....
But the fact remains, Schumacher has never allowed an equal driver to be alongside him in an equal car, and that continues to be the reason he's won as much as he has.
(I emphasise again, this IS NOT intended as a criticism of Schumacher or Ferrari. I admire the dedication and work ethic that enables such dominance of what was once truly a sport but is now a simply marketing exercise, masquerading as sport.
Given the choice though, I'd prefer to have dinner with JPM, or Webber, or Mika than with Michael – and I realise I may be doing him a dis-service by saying that, but I rate them as more valuable to the sport of F1 racing, than MS who I consider a freak of nature and not especially good for the sport.)
As you can see I can bore for England on what I think is wrong with F1, but essentially it has always changed over the years and things won't stop changing because I prefer one driver over another.....
I am more interested in tomorrow's race where I reckon Button will fall by the way side, Sato will end up 3rd on the podium, .....
I think the tyres thing does cut it, McLaren were way off it and shouldn't have been that far off it...their car is better than that.
The race today was boring as fuck
Almost nothing happened through the whole of it once the start had happened.
Anyway, 7 consecutive wins, 6th consecutive constructors championship :)
God that was dull....JPM is right, it's just a big go-kart track. Get rid of it now and put a decent GP in its place.
Well, McLaren were shit, tyres or not, their speed was down on other teams and DC...well.... I bet managers are just linming up to get him in their seat for next and finish 8th in every GP :rolleyes:
Thought Pizzonia didn't do too badly considering his lack of racing....testing for 80 laps is one thing, actually being in with other people is another.
"Racing" around Hungary is like testing...;)
Ich bin ein Mod
16-08-2004, 09:40
Sadly I don't see them getting rid of Hungary any time soon, unless they ban tobacco advertising
Sadly I don't see them getting rid of Hungary any time soon, unless they ban tobacco advertising
I do, there are plenty of other countries which enable tobacco advertising that want a GP.
And the calender can only get so big...
Think Russia might be a good bet...although the Yanks are pushing for re-using Watkins Glen or Detroit for another US GP. Personally, I like having races in the US, you known, just to prove cars can turn right but Indy is the wrong place.
India was rumoured to be the next venue, but that seems to have gone quiet of late. Maybe another South Amercian GP is worthwhile, I loved Mexico and Buenos Aires coudl stage another GP.
If they would bring back the Argentina GP - they'd need a new circuit or would need to seriously redevelop the old one because it was shit.
South Africa and Turkey have attempted to get themselves a GP along with India and Russia.
Michael Schumacher can win the title at Belgium.
Jacques Villeneuve has been in talks with Sauber. While I think it's a good move for Sauber to get such a skilled driver (he was pretty good) and JV will probably be good for Sauber in terms of results, I doubt Sauber can offload him for serious money afterwards which is what Sauber (and formerly Jordan and Minardi if you exclude Webber) were so good at. Helping to find the talents of the future...
Lap times at Belgium are expected to fall really really far...maybe 6 or 7 seconds a lap compared to 2002.
JV to Sauber....that might work...they could do with someone to develop the car and he probably sees it as a step to replacing MS at Ferrari.
Can't see anyone beating Ferrari at Spa :( JPM will give it a go but the Williams can't handle it at the moment. Renault will, IMO, be behind BAR with their current engine.
Sato could be a real dark horse this weekend...he's great at faster cicuits and I think Spa will suit him.
Ich bin ein Mod
24-08-2004, 18:45
Unless he breaks his engine. Again.
Which races can we expect Ferrari to be roundly beaten at then? :confused:
Errr...... *clutches at straws* ....Shanghai (seeing as Williams is the only team to get a few laps there).
I honestly don't know :( Brazil possibly if its hot, Suzuka will be BAR territory if ever there was a place for them to win it's Japan.
Ferrari also had a few laps there (and it was after Williams had). It was Gerhard Berger who did them and this was back in June I think. It was all part of a 'Ferrari' festival there. I think Badoer got some running as well but I can't be sure.
Williams had 25 laps after Marc Gene did some light running there in the out-dated car.
McLaren were offered similarily light running in their old car.
I don't think it's an advantage that lasts very long. Looking through the old news articles, Adrian Newey didn't seem at all bothered. He did say it might have helped teams to work out gear ratios and allow better mapping of the circuit for simulations they might use before ever arriving.
I reckon Rubens might finally win in Brazil...provided Michael hasn't won them all until then.
I suppose Suzuka might be a place BAR would do well, though I don't know how this year's car compares to last year (when they didn't do too badly, 4th and 6th).
Well in Suzuka, top end speed is needed, but a good chassis to handle to high speed curves, something BAR seem to have got pretty much spot on this year - guess Spa will tell us how good they are compared to Ferrari.
Realisitcally...I can see 2 maybe 3 chances for soemone other than MS to win, unless he lets Rubens get a few.
kyser_soze
25-08-2004, 11:49
La la, lalalalala...
I'm off to Spa tomorrow for the weekend :D:D:D:D:D
Hopefully seeing MS get crowned Champ cos you can run onto the Spa circuit when the race is over...
Ich bin ein Mod
25-08-2004, 11:57
Lucky bastard :mad:
red rose is going to be there too, it's alright for some...
Ich bin ein Mod
25-08-2004, 12:23
I'm working as well, don't even get to see it on the telly. Harrumph
red rose
25-08-2004, 21:47
(((IBEM)))
I cant wait, if you look at eau rouge corner on sunday you wont be able to miss me I'm wearing a red top and a ferrari hat :D:p
Ich bin ein Mod
25-08-2004, 21:55
(((IBEM)))
I cant wait, if you look at eau rouge corner on sunday you wont be able to miss me I'm wearing a red top and a ferrari hat :D:p
I'm sure you'll stand out wearing that! :D
red rose
25-08-2004, 21:58
oh yeah I'll be easy to spot :D
kyser_soze
26-08-2004, 08:35
(((IBEM)))
I cant wait, if you look at eau rouge corner on sunday you wont be able to miss me I'm wearing a red top and a ferrari hat :D:p
AH baby! You're Ferrarista too!!!
kyser is obviously new to the game, tifosi if you're a Ferrari fan :p
Ich bin ein Mod
26-08-2004, 12:49
Ferrarista sounds pretty damm cool as well though
kyser_soze
26-08-2004, 13:11
kyser is obviously new to the game, tifosi if you're a Ferrari fan :p
Yeah I Know tifosi too but I'm common...
You're uncommon if you're saying Ferrarista...
Anyway, the thing at Belgium which isn't too good as a spectator is that the long long laps means you see the cars less.
And bring ear plugs, or get them there.
kyser_soze
26-08-2004, 13:26
You're uncommon if you're saying Ferrarista...
Anyway, the thing at Belgium which isn't too good as a spectator is that the long long laps means you see the cars less.
Our 'best location' guide lives 2 miles from the circuit so we're taking his advice on best locations.
We're there from tomorrow as well so will have plenty of scoping time, are taking binoculars as well.
Getting pant wettingly excited about it...
And so it soon begins...looks like it might be a wet qualification so maybe an interesting grid if it's dry to start with.
Oh...who am I kidding rain or shine there's only one winner this weekend. Just hope there's some action for 2nd down to 8th.
Well first session suggest its Ferrari all the way.
Davidson fastest yet again...are you watching Peter Sauber?! Biggest surprise was the pace of the Jags, who both did a fair number of laps...Wirdhiem 4th fastest, Webber only a few tenths off.
Ferrari definately have the race pace (by a second or so a lap...not too bad given the length of the lap maybe), not sure about qualifying though.
BAR have confirmed they've been talking to JV...doubt he'll get the drive though after the way he left them.
I'm still expecting Schumacher to do it tomorrow though Trulli has the pole.
And the run down to the first corner is tiny, I reckon Schumacher can keep the Renault behind him for that long...and if not, he'll still beat past them both...
After a session with some rain, no rain and then heavy rain - it's Trulli, M Schumacher, Alonso, Coulthard, Fisichella, Barrichello and then the rest in a rather muddled order because of the weather.
It wasn't even a Minardi at the back :eek:
Wow what a race!
Congratulations to Schumacher for taking yet another Drivers Championship, although he looked pretty mediocre in this one against JPM and Kimi. Maybe he was just making sure, by playing safe!
Well done Kimi on bring the McLaren home in 1st place without the usual mechanical trouble. What a pity he's such a dull character when he's out of the car! I would have expected a little more than that half hearted smile when he got on the top step... FFS, he's just come through the season from hell to win at Spa!
What's the story with all the right rear Michelin's disintegrating? That needs to get well sorted out before Monza or we could find some drivers getting injured. It seems that the right rear at Spa is not the tyre with the most stress either. Very strange!
Over here the commentators were saying that by taking the car too far over the kerbs at the 2nd part of the Bus Stop meant the sidewalls were sliced up by the rough/sharp reverse/inner edge of the concrete kerb, especially as that's where the drivers are getting their clog down as well...
They were saying this because no Bridgestones exploded, so debris from accidents was probably not a cause. Seems like the Michelins are a bit too fragile, and that's a dangerous thing for tyres to be!
Other noteworthy points: Why did Pantano just drive into the back of the Minardi? From the chopper shot in replay, he had loads of time to go left and avoid the accident. Maybe he was looking in his mirrors at the time... but even then, he was last on the grid so I don't expect there was much coming up behind him.
Scary ride for Jenson. He could have done well if the tyre hadn't blown!
Great move from JPM on Schumacher at the Bus Stop. Pity his attempt to repeat the trick on Trulli was a bit too agricultural. He seems to be out to emphasise his "hardnose" reputation before going to McLaren, although on yesterday's form he's going to have his work cut out with Kimi....
All in all a fascinating race. More please at Monza!
Bridgestones were fast in the race for pace...but the race was pretty chopped up with all those restarts which doesn't suit the Bridgestone tyres at all.
Pantano is a somewhat average driver might be one explanation for his shoddy driving...
There's some journo who said he would run around Silverstone naked if a McLaren won a race this season...
red rose
30-08-2004, 16:54
Well that was flippin good fun :D
Other noteworthy points: Why did Pantano just drive into the back of the Minardi? From the chopper shot in replay, he had loads of time to go left and avoid the accident. Maybe he was looking in his mirrors at the time... but even then, he was last on the grid so I don't expect there was much coming up behind him.
Pantano really is the worst driver in F1 at the moment - even Zsolt just puts his head down and gets on with it.
Great GP - Well done to Schumacher for 7 WDC's - a monumental feat :cool:
I glad Jenson and Bruni were okay after that accident...as JB said it could have been so much worse if he'd hit him at a different angle. Montoya's pass on MS was sublime, the Trulli one less so, but IMO a racing incident.
Worst part for me was Zonta's engine blowing after a great drive...he kept his head, used hios pit stops and SC well to get to a deserved position and then kaboom!. Absolutely gutting.
Ralf Slomaker fails his fitness test so won't be at Monza.
Well stone me. How about that?
Has anyone missed him?
I doubt it.
I just hope Toyota are shitting bricks about having signed him for mega bucks... :mad:
I'd rather see Ralf on track than Pizzonia.
Me too....Pizz was unlucky in Spa but really, he's been slow as fuck. Been outshone by Zonta and Massa who are good but hardly going to be F1 greats.
Toyota have plenty of options....Panis isn't going anywhere yet, they have Zonta and Ryan Briscoe as 3rd/test driver and Trulli is likely to sign for them soon.
Anyway Ralf has plenty of time to recover before testing begins - his accident was huge so i'm not surprised its taking a while to recover!
kyser_soze
01-09-2004, 09:10
Well that was flippin good fun :D
Totally agree - got back yesterday after a lovely day at the campsite in Grand Coo and overnight stay in Brussels.
Cracking race - we were sat on Poudhon and had great fun watching Reubens screaming around the track during the first safety car period, then progressively moving up the ranks...
Also got to see Zonta's spill in pre-qual on Saturday.
I have to say tho - what is it with Belgium and a lack of ATMs? The ones that are there are actual 'hole in the wall' types are often shut overnight or (bizarrely) at lunchtimes, and the others require you to swipe in through a door, thewn it turns out that they only allow the customers of their bank to use the teller. And there are more along Oxford street than in the whole of Brussels. Serioulsy!!
Schumacher has escaped a big crash unhurt after the right rear Bridgestone exploded at Monza :eek: Certianly not been a good week for tyres!
Luizzi is to test for Sauber in the next few weeks with eye on a possible drive for next season - and you'd assume if he does well a possilbe move to Ferrari in 2-3 years time.
If Luizzi works out, he'd probably come when Barrichello leaves...
If it's a big crash and the left rear, I'm gussing it's the first schicane...which is an accident black spot if there ever was one...
Reports just say he "left the track at high speed" and suspect a tyre blow out....Fisichella also had one go the pervious day.
Ich bin ein Mod
03-09-2004, 12:19
Could be the second chicane as well, both have fast entrance speeds
Top 5 testing times were:
Antonio Pizzonia
1:20.010
Kimi Raikkonen
1:20.797
Rubens Barrichello
1:20.846
Anthony Davidson
1:20.877
Jenson Button
1:20.948
Testing times count for so little
Rubens was 6 tenths of a second faster yesterday and all...I doubt he'd of magically gone slower or something.
Seems the rumours at Spa regarding a new team are true - Dallara are building a chassis for a "customer", believed to be a Canadian firm that will run either Cosworth or Toyota engines.
However. there's also a rumour that a Russian conglomerate want to enter (nothing to do with Abramovich).
New F1 team (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns13434.html)
Panis will retire from racing and just test for Toyota in future. Michael Schumacher will now be the oldest driver on the grid.
The Contracts Recognition Board will get to decide over the fate of the Button wrangle so it'll be relatively smooth.
Villneuve may get a 2 year performance related pay contract with Sauber but there is still a lot of backing for Liuzzi.
The teams failed to reach agreement on rule changes for the future - the FIA has given teams the chance to agree on a package offered by the FIA. There are 3 choices, it's all rather hard to digest without being an engineer....
Yep, I read a review of them and I just didn't get it...essentially reducing downforce and some other stuff but at the moment it's a mess.
One of the major things holiding back the introduction of new teams (apart from the $40m bond :rolleyes: ) is each team must own the chassis IP - that means Dallara and Arden can only make a chassis for either their own team or be part of a partnership with another.
JV and Luizzi wouldn't be a bad line-up for Sauber, although Pizzonia is rumoured to be in the running as well!
Toyota are still in Limbo....Panis can only test for them over the closed season, and neither he nor Zonta can take the 3rd car on Friday because they have both competed in GP's this year. So, if Ralf and Trulli are the drivers, the 3rd driver for 2005 is likely to be Ryan Briscoe. Unless, Trulli isn;t signing for them and they're taking Zonta as # 2.
Actually, the third driver rule only applies if the driver goes for 6 races - so they may tell Zonta to take a selective rest...
Ferrari 1 and 2 on the first practice...second will be interesting...
Weather reports show dry qualifying but wet race :eek:
I thought third driver rule was now "any GP within 12 months" reagrdless of the number of races actually competed in :confused:
Wet race = Schumacher walking it.
Although, if they know it's going to be wet I wonder what fuel people will put on?
Could well have changed - it might be a way for Liuzzi to get invovled...or something for David Coulthard to do :D
Monza in the wet has got to be pretty dangerous...and visiblity will be non-existent on the straights...exciting first corner maybe :eek:
Ich bin ein Mod
10-09-2004, 13:06
They have to say that though, teams have to say something to the press.
But they can go against the CRB and take it to the European courts as last recourse...TBH though I think Williams know they have him, Button seems sure, Ricahrds is kicking up a fuss because he knows he can go and is looking like a twat.
Monza in the wet will be very :eek: Come on you Minardi boys!!!!
Rumours still going around that Ford will rebrand Jag as Ford F1 with major money coming from the far east...still just a rumour but I don't think we'll see the Jaguar name for much longer. Shame, because Wirdhiem seems to know how to drive it and is worth a drive I reckon.
Second session over:
1. RAIKKONEN
2. BARRICHELLO
3. M.SCHUMACHER
4. BUTTON
5. PIZZONIA
6. SATO
7. MONTOYA
8. DAVIDSON
9. ALONSO
10. COULTHARD
No one has beaten MS' time from the first session. McLaren seem pretty fast, BAR too, with Renault a bit further back.
JPM could be a dark horse though - he likes Monza, might make top 4.
Pizzonia has had a crash trowards the end, team now fixing the car with no word yet on whether he will need a new engine.
Montezemolo (Fiat and therefore Ferrari president) has made a point few F1 team directors would make, that the FIA should give more TV money to the teams, he said they currently receive 47% of it.
Which makes me wonder...where does the other 53% go? :confused:
Bernie's pockets maybe...but it was interesting to see that since not all the change in F1 has to be based around cutting costs.
Rain is no longer expected, sadly.
The Contract Recognition Board meet on September 26th to decide about Button.
Montezemolo (Fiat and therefore Ferrari president) has made a point few F1 team directors would make, that the FIA should give more TV money to the teams, he said they currently receive 47% of it.
Which makes me wonder...where does the other 53% go? :confused:
Bernie's pockets maybe...but it was interesting to see that since not all the change in F1 has to be based around cutting costs.
Rain is no longer expected, sadly.
The TV rights have been sold by the FIA to Formula One Management which is owned (effectively) by SLEC which stands for SLavica ECclestone, Bernies statuesque wife. I say effectively, since a consortium of German banks own a majority of FOM – they just don't have the management rights!
The share of TV income that goes to the F1 teams was decided waaaaay back when Bernie (then 100% owner of FOM) agreed to take on the onerous task of marketing F1 on behalf of the FIA.
The teams agreed the split in the original Concorde agreement, so it's a bit rich complaining now, after Bernie has made F1 the marketing goldmine that it currently is today. I don't doubt they have a good point, but they signed the contract Bernie put in front of them!
In fact, the contract between the FIA and FOM, has recently been renewed for a period longer than the lifespan of a 20 year old F1 fan! (not sure exactly how long, but seriously long!)
The current Concorde agreement expires in 2007 and will be re-negotiated shortly. The teams will un-doubtedly get a bigger share of the TV income (and other sources of revenue they currently don't share in, like ticket income and circuit advertising) which is why Montezemolo has been so consistently strident in his calls for an increase in revenue for the teams, using the stick of Ferrari withdrawal from the series as his bargaining chip.
That, and the threat of a manufacturers series (the GPWC) which would see FOM (and the banks) put out of business. That scenario is very unlikely, cos the manufacturers can't get their act together and have no Bernie-like-figure to handle the deal.
In answer to your question, the 53% goes to FOM which is, as I said owned by a consortium of banks and SLEC, so a substantial amount does end up (indirectly) in Bernie's pocket.
The question of why a substantial % of the rights to F1 racing belongs to a bunch of German bankers, is the subject of another post all by itself.
The FIA are only the sporting authority and FOM/SLEC are the contracted marketers. Big difference!
But hey, can you believe just how dominant the Ferraris were? Literally light years ahead of the competition!
And what about MacLaren? So strong in Spa and nowhere in Imola.
Not a good omen for the 2005 season! :(
Looks like Trulli may be bumped out of his Renault before the next race in China.
He's scored no points since he fell out with Flavio, even though he's scored the teams only win this year and is still a point ahead of Alonso in Drivers Chapionship.
Rumour has it that Villeneuve may be drafted in for the final three races....
Why on earth would they want JV? He's not raced in anger for over a year and I doubt he'd do any better than Trulli, who don't forget had mechancial problems in a few GP's.
TBH I think Flavio's reaping what he sows... being a twat about the management situation has messed up one the strongest team units in F1. I hope Trulli goes to Toyota and he and Mike build a car to beat the Renault becuase at the moment Flavio is just behind the posion dwarf in my "people I hate in F1" list....waaayyy ahead of Ron Dennis and that's saying something. :mad:
It's unlikely they can find someone quicker than Trulli so quickly, during the Monza GP - his fastest lap was actually the 7th fastest - ahead of Alonso by a few hundreths.
Speaking of which, it was Rubens and then Michael who were quickest. Rubens by about 2 tenths in the 1.21 region.
Pizzonia was almost a second behind, significantly faster than JPM who was trailling BARs for much of the race though and then (surprisingly) it was Fisichella.
Jordan purchase rumours are not longer limited to unknown consortiums out of the middle east, Arden (on the basis of the new regulations that look likely to come into force) may be interested in buying out Jaguar or Jordan.
And outside of F1, F3000 has come to an end. Winners of this Formula in the past include Jean Alesi, Christian Fittipaldi, Olivier Panis and JP Montoya, Zonta, Heidfeld, Justin Wilson and the last champion is Liuzzi.
Do Arden have the cash to buy out Jag? I'd be shocked if they did.
If Arden take over Jordan, then Jordan disappears due to the IP issues, so the grid will still have the same number of cars. I think Arden would prefer to go it alone - Ford seems likely to drop its WRC programme to concentrate on F1 for the next 2 seasons...after that who knows.
I hope Luizzi gets the Sauber seat, if only to restore my faith in the lower formulas providing new drivers. The next few seasons are going to be interesting as a lot of drivers come to the end of their careers - MS, DC and the new drivers get prove their worth.
Not sure we'll see Klien, Wilson, Pantano when Wirdhiem, Briscoe and Davidson are pushing for seats and seem to be quicker.
It's looking more and more likely that Jacques will be in a Renault in China and Trulli will be on gardening leave.
Rumour has it that JV is having a seat fitting at Enstone today and could be testing at Silverstone tomorrow. Renault are testing there anyway for three days and interestingly enough, Trulli is not scheduled to be there even though it's the last chance teams have to test before shipping out for China....
On the Arden/Jordan deal, I don't see the point of simply replacing a name. Will Arden be better able to race in F1 than Jordan was, and if not, other than for Eddie J to get his hands on some ready cash, what's the point of the sale?
And Ford? What on earth are they doing? Having spent zillions on Jaguar, now they're thinking of dropping that name and running under the Ford oval. What a shower!
Walter Hayes, where are you when they (and we) need you?
But Trulli wasn't ever scheduled to be there - it's Alonso and Montagny. they wouldn't let him test new stuff, knowing he's going to another team, esp if it's Toyota.
I think JV would be a huge mistake...he was good in a championship winning car, but I doubt he'll do any better than Trulli.
Well, it would be better for Arden to habve their own team, but the logic is that Arden are arguable the best chassis manufacturer out there and Jordan need a decent chassis. A new engine would be even better! I think Eddie would stay on to manage whatever happens, Arden woudl be technical staff.
TBH a massive cash injection would be better to try and sort themselves out and maybe convince Toyota to supply engines (as has been rumoured).
IMO, sacking Lauda was their biggest mistake - he was on the verge of kicking arse, but then Rahal came in, went again and now it's run by suits who know nothing about F1. And it shows...they've lost Webber, HSBC are pulling sponsorship at the end of this year and they want to get rid of Klien who brings in money :confused:
Ich bin ein Mod
14-09-2004, 15:32
Getting rid of the Stewart people was their biggest mistake. Stewart had made genuine progress, what has Jaguar done?
Certain components of F1 cars in the future (from next year) will have to be manufactured to have a tough coating of kevlar or an equivalent substance around them to reudce debris when damaged by around 80% (presumably to stop the exploding tyres situation).
Arden will want to get into some kind of high end racing since F3000 has ended - and they ended it well - almost 3 seasons running winning both championships (they lost the drivers in 2002 when the driver failed a drugs test and lost points as a result).
Jordan would be selling up for about £50 million apparently.
Ferrari will continue to supply Sauber with engines and I think JV will be 'ok' at Renault, but not as good as Trulli. I don't think he could get used to the rather 'funny' Renault too quickly and he had a reputation as a bad starter...when the Renault is a car that needs really good starts to do 'it's stuff'.
Trulli has officially been sacked and has revealed he has a drive for next year - despite it being almost blindingly obvious who it will be (Toyota) - he still won't disclose who it is.
Arden have the deal for the new F2 series chassis, so they've got plenty of work already, taking on Jordan or Jag would IMO be a huge mistake.
TBH I wish Stewart had remained in F1, they were a breath of fresh air before the corporate bods at Ford got involved - Rubens win was a great moment in recent F1 history.
I can't believe Renault's attitude...Trulli won Monaco for them, and apart from a big fuck up in France has had a good seaso. Mayeb Flv shoudl look to his favoured driver Alonso for the reason why they've fallen behing BAR.
It would make more sense to have Montagny drive seeing as he knows the car better than anyone. TBH if JV does get the drive I hope he fucks it up because Falvio is being an utter cunt. Go BAR!
Well fuck me he's not only got 3 drives in a Renault but Sauber have signed him to drive alongside Massa!!! Bizarre...he may be a former WDC but he almost manmaged to balls that season up despite having easily the best car in the field. I doubt Peter Sauber will standfor any petulance, although maybe JV is now a little more humble than before.
Shame Massa's got the second seat, hopefully Luizzi wil be the 3rd driver to gain some F1 experience before moving to Ferrari :D And that means peopel like DC and Davidson are left with the crap options. I hope Ant gets the BAR drive, although I suspect DC might be given it.
Trulli has...shock....been confirmed at Toyota on a 2-year deal.
Trulli got them a win and two pole positions (the last one as recent as Belgium in admittedly, unusual circumstances maybe)
Don't think JV will be 'doing the business' for them.
I'm surprised JV has been taken on by Sauber especially - because he's never been keen on doing the other side of F1 - promoting and all sponsors related stuff...
Jag are looking for new sponsors afert HSBC pulled the plug, and rumour is a chinese firm will sponsor the team, likely to be simply Ford F1.
However, a sticking point is the, as yet undecided, engine regs - Cosworth hasn't started building a new engine, which in turn is holding up the sale of Jordan (who wants a team with potentially no engine supplier!) and also Minardi.
There is also fall out from JV signing for Sauber...Red Bull wanted one of their drivers, ie Paffett. Apparently, they will withdraw sponsorship from Sauber and take it to Ford who already have Klien driving for them.
And should Ford withdraw after next season, Cosworth may also be shut down, leaving no 3rd party engine supplier and 2 teams without a deal!
beesonthewhatnow
17-09-2004, 14:03
Jag are pulling out of F1 at the end of the season (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/3665810.stm)
Fuckity Fuck!
Guess Red Bull will stick with Sauber then! Well, that certainly messes things up...where will Minardi and Jordan get engines from if the regulations change? Hopefully DC will be without a drive now too :D
Hopefully someone will buy their space, but when Prost and Arrows withdrew no one bought up their chassis etc and they were better than Jag!
I think there's been a bit of 'blackout' on the news front.
Bernie has said he wasn't surprised Jaguar/Ford pulled out...so he must know something we don't about the slot being bought up.
Jordan and Minardi are also confident they have engines sorted out so they must know the Cosworth engine interest is getting picked up too.
Yeah, but what about the wider implications for F1 motorsport.
A wake up call for the team owners, Bernie and the FIA if ever there was one.....
I think they're aware of the need to cut costs (or give the teams more money).
It's been a part of the ultimate aim of the rule changes.
The man is a comic genius.
From Planet F1:
"David Coulthard believes had he been the one driving the BAR this season, instead of Jenson Button, he would have a "won a grand prix or two."
"It's just down to experience. Jenson will win many races in due course, but right now I know how to win and hope I'll get the chance to prove it with BAR next season. If I do, there's no reason why I can't challenge for the title."
:D
Superb stuff once again from DC, no doubt next year will be "his year". Amazing how his team mate can lead a GP and win another from a lower place on the grid. The only incident I can think of where DC might have done better than Jenson is US, where BAR stayed out after Ralf's accident.
Christ, he can't pass people either!
I really hope he doesn't drive for them next season - he's had his chance.
DC will sadly probably get the BAR seat...not obviously who else BAR will go for.
The CRB rule on the Button saga tomorrow but he'll probably leave BAR 'legitmately' anyway. Not sure how much Williams would have to stump up for him but I'm sure BAR could get Coulthard on the cheap...
Glock replaces Pantano for the last three races.
Shanghai is meant to be designed with some reasonably good overtaking spots...
The CRB have adjourned until 16th October....
So the Button saga continues!
Typical lawyers; anything to increase their fees! :rolleyes:
Glock has great potential but, IMO is nowhere near as good as Ant, Wirheim, or Luizzi.
I'd prefer to see Nick Hiedfled in the second BAR, but I get the impression it's DC's ride. Hope he only gets a 1 year contract though.
With Jag's demise I'd guess that Klien might go to Jordan for the money, unless their mysterious backer actually comes up trumps. I suppose the 3rd seat at Sauber is a possible, but Luizzi seems to be ahead of him for that as well.
If Cosworth isn't bought up soon - all the teams might get to field 3 drivers...
Bernie seems kind of keen on the idea saying 'at least all the cars would be competitive'.
It wouldn't exactly reduce costs though would it Bernie...
And it also wouldn't work...the concorde agreement allows for a third car, but those drivers, for some reason, cannot take a place on the podium. Potentially you could have a situation wherere there's no one on the podium, despite scoring points for winning the race :confused: :rolleyes:
Then there's the problem of team orders...they're banmnmed but I guarantee with 3 cars in each race there would be accuation of "tactics".
What Bernie shoudl do is fuck right off out of F1, stopping grabbing all the money and actually leave the FIA to concule with teams on changes. BMW have already said that if the money situation isn't sorted they'll be off..it's not like F1 helps them sell the 3 series.
kyser_soze
23-09-2004, 14:39
Ha ha ha...anyone read this on BBC this morning?
China hosts its first Formula One Grand Prix on Sunday, but some of its journalists are still in first gear when it comes to their knowledge of the sport.
World champion Michael Schumacher was certainly thrown by a few of the questions at his first Chinese news conference on Wednesday.
Ferrari's German star was at his most diplomatic after being asked by one reporter in Shanghai: "Why are you always in red? Is it your lucky colour?"
His Italian team have raced red cars since the F1 world championship was introduced in 1950, so the enquiry was unexpected to say the least.
After explaining that Ferrari had "been red forever", Schumacher said he hoped the colour - considered both lucky and imperial in China - would help Ferrari this weekend.
He was also a little flummoxed when asked: "Can you win the championship here in Shanghai?"
The 35-year-old actually clinched his seventh drivers' crown in August with second place in the Belgian GP.
New dawn for F1 in China
But mindful of his ambassadorial role at an event that has huge financial importance for F1, Schumacher was a model of politeness in his response.
And after winning 12 of the year's 15 races so far, he is unlikely to need the intervention of any fortune, Chinese or otherwise, on Sunday.
Look out for BAR this weekend...not just because they've been quickest in warm up but because they're blue! FIA has allwoed them to run different sponsorship (555 in place of Lucky Strike) becuase it's the biggest BAT brand in China.
Looks a lot nicer too!
JV 15th in his first session and pretty off the pace.
Ferrari are off the pace...I expect them to come back though...they are suffering from a fair amount of understeer...
Barrichello on pole, M Schumacher spins on first corner and starts from the back of the grid :eek:
I think this is what's termed "black humour."
The Jaguard F1 team is listed on Ebay. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18185&item=2491024174&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)
Starting price £10,000,000. Seems a bit cheap to me! :D
Well, yet another race rather than a procession!
Good to see Button ending up 2nd instead of third, but JB is right when he says he needs to get off the line faster...
Ralf S was trying to justify his petulant behaviour on German TV. Unconvincingly IMO and if I was Frank, I'd consider Ralf's wages for the Chinese GP a waste of money.
Not a good way to behave for someone who tries to suggest he's a professional driver. Imagine if you were a mechanic or engineer working your balls off to get that car competitive, and then the prima donna who's driving it, get's pissed off because he has to wait to get a tyre changed.
His excuse was that he was two laps down and it didn't make sense to continue.... And that was 18 laps from the end.
He's a waste of space in my view, and Toyota will work that out pretty quickly next year I reckon.
Expect Pizzonia in the 2nd Williams for the next two races.
That said I got the impression that JPM can't really be bothered setting his car up at this stage of the season. He started 10th to Ralf Dickhead's 5th. Yet he drove to 5th place at the finish....
Did you notice Ralf? :mad:
Congrats to Barrichello for a commanding drive!
No way will Pizzonia be back...Ralf has a point - why race when that far down? To gather data? Bit of sponsorship money maybe? Ralf was doing better than Montoya before his incidents took him out.
JV was crap...Renault are going to finish third for sure it seems....
Overall, I thought the grand prix was kind of...erm...dull? Button provided the most interest, that's saying a lot...
It's another 'Tilke' track and seems to suffer from the same 'unexciting' race syndrome.
No way will Pizzonia be back...Ralf has a point - why race when that far down? To gather data? Bit of sponsorship money maybe?
Well, again if I was in Frank's place I'd point out how often in the course of F1 history, cars have failed to finish 18 laps from the end. The race isn't over until the chequred flag falls, and Ralf may (in his own mind) be able to walk on water, but he hasn't yet demonstrated his exceptional powers to forcast the future. So how could he tell what was going to happen in the next 18 laps? You only need to look at Brazil last year to see how a race can totally change in the space of a couple of laps.
I'd then point out the exorbitant amount of money I was paying him. And after that I'd suggest it was the role of a professional racing driver to race in front of fans who've come to see him (amongst others) race, and who ultimately pay his wages...
Then I'd point to the position that JPM finished from a start at P10, and his very own brother's seemingly diametrically opposed attitude to racing as demonstrated at this very race.
Certainly, watching the body language of RS and Theissen discussing the "situation" on German TV, and Theissen's comments afterwards, I think there were quite a few ruffled feathers within the team. That was confirmed when RS himself came to the TV presenters and publicly disagreed with what Theissen had said.
It's not his job to decide if he races or not, so saying he has a point is irrelevant. He may have felt that, but he's employed to race. Not behave like the overrated, overpaid, egotistical, arrogant brat, that he is.
No wonder Frank got tired of him and his manager...
Oh, and I reckon there's a good chance Pizzonia will race the next two races!
We'll see in less than two weeks.
Ultimately, Williams want points - and that means sticking with Ralf - he's a better racer than Pizzonia.
There's no way Ralf is going anywhere.
I thought that was an okay GP - nothing to get too excited about other than MS qualification. Amazign how all his bad luck comes in 1 race - have to say I think he should have been penalised for his move at the hairpin when he hit Klien - it was for position and TBH if that had happened to MS there would have been complaints.
Glad BAR stuck it Renault...I hope Flavio feels a twat for getting rid of Trulli (who is still 5th in the championship!). I know JV has been out of the game a whiel but he looked shocking - no pace at all. Wonder if Sauber are worried?
Good race for Button, he really didn't deserve 2nd and the BAR didn't really have the pace to challenge but he did well. Sato too.
Rubens for 3 in a row - he's lightening in Suzuka, and i expect BAR to boost the engine a little for the Honda execs - Sato for podium if he holds it all together!
[QUOTE=g force]There's no way Ralf is going anywhere.
I thought that was an okay GP - nothing to get too excited about other than MS qualification. Amazign how all his bad luck comes in 1 race - have to say I think he should have been penalised for his move at the hairpin when he hit Klien - it was for position and TBH if that had happened to MS there would have been complaints.[quote]
The rules on such incidents have been established such that it depends whether or not 'who was in the lead' is seriously contested. In the case of MS, he was on the inside with wheels at the same level as Klein's (front to front, rear to rear). With DC and Ralf, DC's front hit Ralf's rear, hence the small but ultimately unnecessary query by the stewards.
JV's fastest lap was 17th fastest overall...over 1.5 secs behind Alonso - he sucks...
Normally i'd cheer for JV, but this whole situation is unacceptable and I hope he fails to finish the remaining races, leaving BAR to get 2nd.
To give him some benefit, he was stuck behind Webber, so probably couldn't get a decent lap in. But then again, he was stuck behind a piss poor Jag, while his team mate was 4th.
I hope he does well next season but I have my doubts.
kyser_soze
27-09-2004, 16:25
The return of Mr Vile-nerve is not going to be greeted with whoops and cheers in this corner of F1 fandom.
Glad to see Jesnon 2nd - and I think he did deserve it, having lost the 3 places at the start and taking the risk with the 2 stop strategy.
I'm thinking maybe MS is taking the piss a bit no he's won again - his fastest last lap carried a message to the rest of the field I think.
And Reubens' missus is a cutey - how sweet was she kissing the front of his helmet? (feel free to make smutty comments about that not being the only helmet of Reubens she kissed either)
If there is a race Rubens wants to win, it's Brazil (since he's always been very unlucky there and I don't think he's ever scored there).
Rubens to win the next two races? :confused:
Hardly a surprise given the line on tobacco sponsorship and the very shite state of the pits.
But still :( :( This year's GP was a corker and at least Silverstone has some soul unlike all the Tilkedrome's sprining up everywhere. I wish they'd redevelop the pits and fix what needs fixing but really until the Bernie stops trying to line his own pockets I can't see it coming back.
$8m just to host a GP :eek: What does he do with it? It can't cost that to 'promote' it.
The teams really need to stand up to him before F1 is ruined...sadly I think it might be getting too late. Maybe it will need Renault to go (as has been rumoured) before they realise something must be done.
This is the fucking end. Ecklescake has finally lost it. Someone kill the daft cunt.
It a big shame but it isn't suprising at all.
Ecclestone's a cunt and a weird one at that, but I was up there recently (for work) and the place, franky, is a fucking shambles. It's embarassing.
It's not like they have't been warned about it either. After seeing what China pulled of, must've sealed it's fate
Ich bin ein Mod
01-10-2004, 22:22
Silverstone isn't "that" great a gp, just some rosy-tinted specs that's all. So I'm actually glads its gone, but not for the reasons it has
Trulli is back in for the last two races with Toyota.
Bernie has said Silverstone can come back on if £1.5 million can be found...
It's a crap track for spectators - comparisons to Shanghai might be unfair - but here it goes.
From next year, you can get a train to the GP circuit which is just 200 yards from the entrance.
Seats in Shanghai offer views of about half the lap (45 or more seconds). Silverstone about 12.
Seats in Shanghai are covered, not the case with Silverstone.
VIPs are put up in white tent marquee things at Silverstone - they get air conditioned permanent buildings in Shanghai...
Suzuka coming up and I think we could have a very close GP.
Rubens flies round there, Renault should be suited to the circuit, McLaren usually go well and Honda are giving BAR Davidson's engine for the GP.
Big rumour is that Dallara, along with a major Russian/Canadian sponsor (possibly LUKOil and their tie in with Sunoco) will announce they are taking over Jaguar's assets, and taking a stake in Cosworth to provide the new team with engines for next season.
Pretty ambitious if true, but great news if they pull it off.
Silverstone looks likely to be back on the calender, the shortfall is now only £800,000 and 'regional development aid' for the midlands might be used to make that up.
I reckon a Ferrari will still win it...impressive form considering they stopped any development on the car back in July/August.
Friday qually cancelled due to a huge rain storm.
Saturday may not go ahead and tema bosses are meeting to discuss alternatives - inlcuding stating from the finishing order in the last GP.
Still a possiblity the race may not go ahead due to dangerous conditions - Suzuka was stopped before when a tropical storm hit in 88, meebe 89 and then re-started.
Friday qually? What you on about :p
Qualifying has been moved to a shokcingly early 9am start on Sunday...
Buddy Bradley
09-10-2004, 21:03
Whatagwan? :confused:
Is there a race tomorrow or not?
There was a race, no competition up at the sharp end as Michael Schumacher led every lap of the race...he didn't set the fastest lap though (Barrichello did) so it wasn't a 'perfect' weekend.
Quite a decent GP considering...probably a result of the messed up grid due to qualifying.
The local TV director needs to be replaced though...
I thought it was a boring race, but that's only because all I seemed to see was Taku all the time.... :rolleyes:
If ever there was a case for getting rid of national broadcasters, Fuji TV proved it on Sunday. Teams do not have to do things in the best interests of the sport (although some do) but it would be nice if the TV companies involved at least understood that the most important thing is to put on a good show. The TV people missed Takuma Sato passing Jenson Button, they missed a collision between David Coulthard and Rubens Barrichello. They missed Kimi Raikkonen running into a Jordan and most of the other overtaking moves or interesting battles. There was never a hint of what had happened to Mark Webber. He simply disappeared from the radar screens.
The rest of the story here! (http://www.grandprix.com/race/r730racereport.html)
The coverage was truly awful. Okay GP, and some decent scraps further down the field - loved it when JPM lost 3 places within 2 corners and then battled back.
Sauber were very strong - Fisi passing Villeneuev was pretty funny, considering they're swapping seats...wonder who was happier at the prospect?
Provisional Calender stuff in that link
http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/041013/23/70vb.html
Silverstone back on, sort of...will they all make it? :confused:
So possibly 19 GPs, when we had 15 just 3 years ago....great cost sutting by the FIA there :rolleyes:
Why not just scrap the bloody European GP on that piss poor excuse for a circuit and have 18! I think Silverstone will make it...actually interesting calender with France early on and Shanghai to finish it.
If they have to scrap tracks I rather the French GP moved to Paul Ricard.
Having more GPs can raise revenue for the team...and the increases in money demands from the FIA is part of that (hence why some circuits are still negotiating if they can make it next season and why Silverstone was nearly chopped).
The teams getting the money through TV exposure and what not...
Ich bin ein Mod
14-10-2004, 18:18
If they have to scrap tracks I rather the French GP moved to Paul Ricard.
Seconded. I'd like to see a "core" of the major historic tracks (perhaps Monza, Monaco (shite track but can you really see them dropping it?) Suzuka, Spa perhaps) with other countries GP's be moved around tracks.
Bestof all would be getting rid of dull tracks I suppose but it'd be a decent step towards shaking it up.
New team coming in 2006: Team Dubai apparently, they'll be like a mini-McLaren.
It's almost the end of the season (and presumably this thread :( )
This Dubai thing is very strange...why stump up the $48m bond when you could buy Jordan? I bet Eddie's sweating now...no real sponsors, no drivers paying him enough and possibly no engine.
I'm not sure Arden are stupid enough to buy them either - as a team it's going nowhere..
As I understand it, the Dubai team will have a Merc engine which where McLaren will mainly help out plus some other support around aero packages.
So 2006 could potentially have 22 cars, or 18:
Ferrari
McLaren
Williams
BAR
Toyota
Renault
Minardi
Midland
Team Dubai
Jordan?
Jag replacement?
Yep, last GP this weekend and I guess the end of this thread - it's beena good one. Roll on next year!!!
Well...after near on 30 pages this must come to end :(
Great GP to end the season...shame 14 others were some of the worst I have ever witnessed. Nice to see Montoya remind us of why he's such a great driver - that Williams shouldn't really have won but he kept out of trouble, and really throttled the thing.
Nice to see the Jag mechanics wave Klien after their final pit stop - shame Webber spoilt the party.
TBH - I expect more of the same next season - Ferrari will be win it, but I think McLaren will be more competitive from the off, Rubens will go back to being slow, BAR should improve, and Renault have a very strong driver line up.
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