View Full Version : NO Brixton East London line station
Just got a reply back from TFL stating that the 'costs would outweigh the benefits' of putting in a station on the extended East London Line - so no new train service for us.
:mad:
I don't really like the East London line anyway :o
I kind of think the Victoria line should go further south though.
What a load of wank.
The benefits of expanding any rail network in south London must outway the costs.
The more that interchanges are available on any transport route makes them more attractive.:confused:
It might fuck up the ticketing but it keeps the brain active planning routes.;)
Still if we get a tram.....
Ken Livingston promised this publically.
What's going on?
mayor@london.gov.uk
yourlondon@bbc.co.uk
And he changes his mind every 5 minutes.
Ed, try writing to the SRA.
Calva dosser
19-11-2003, 10:02
I am afraid I think my Ex may have had a hand in this;)
Minnie_the_Minx
19-11-2003, 11:30
we don't want the Victoria Line extended. One of the joys of it terminating in Brixton is that we can always get a seat:D Well, most of the time
e-mail despatched to Red Ken.
Me too. Please fire off a quick one for me folks. (Phnar, phnar).
:cool:
PS I wonder whether you've been mis-informed Mike. Ken's promise was very emphatic. "New Line Will Stop at Brixton" on the front of the SLP:
http://tinyurl.com/vqi3
"And the East London Line, which runs directly over Brixton, will DEFINITELY stop in the town, he vowed."
What!!!!
Originally posted by hatboy
PS I wonder whether you've been mis-informed Mike. Ken's promise was very emphatic. So was the reply I received from TfL.
It's not coming to Brixton.
THE WARRIOR
19-11-2003, 21:26
Could it be in order to secure the Tram coming to Brixton, and not being diverted from Stockwell to Clapham as has previously been mooted. Seems crazy that the East London Line was prioritised to go from Peckham to Clapham Junction, over Tulse Hill and Wimbledon to regenerate inner South London. It will stop at Denmark Hill, then the longest gap of almost 2 miles to Clapham (most stops are between 1/2 amd 3/4 mile apart). The sight of sleek trains running through might regenerate a trainspotter, but not much else. Do the wine bars of Clapham need regeneration?
lang rabbie
20-11-2003, 10:02
It's another fine LU project management mess. The ELL southern extensions project only got approved by central Government on the basis that it would be ridiculously cheap - just building a few hundred yards of track around the New Cross area mostly where there were Victorian railway lines. Most of the rest of the approved cost is for new rolling stock.
Any costs over and above this would need to come from TfL's own budget rather than central government.
lang rabbie
20-11-2003, 12:05
Have just spoken to the East London Line project team's "Communications Manager".
He told me that the most recent estimate of costs for a new station on the high level line (the line that the ELL trains would have to use) had reached £50 (FIFTY) million :eek: :eek: :eek:
at which point they stopped working on further options as they could never justify payback even in regeneration terms.
Edited to add eeks
The letter I got back from TfL just now:
Dear norse deity,
EAST LONDON LINE EXTENSION
Thank you for your e-mail of 19 November to the Mayor, following consultation with my colleagues in the London Rail department of Transport for London (TfL).
The mayor and TfL accept that the provision of a station at Brixton on the extended East London line would be of major benefit to the local community and to the wider transport network. Unfortunately, this is not an easy site, and a station serving central Brixton and providing good interchange with the existing National Rail station, the Underground station and local buses would need to be up on a viaduct. To provide such a station would be costly and I am afraid the costs would far outweigh the benefits.
In the circumstances, TfL and the Strategic Rail Authority, who are now taking the lead on the East London line extension project, have concluded that it isd not possible to proceed with a new station in Brixton. However, we will continue to look into what can be done to better integrate the existing bus, National Rail, Underground and the planned Cross River Transit services [woss that?] at Brixton.
Yours etc.
lang rabbie
27-11-2003, 13:23
and the planned Cross River Transit services [woss that?]
It's the mythical tram following the 59 bus route from Camden and going over Waterloo bridge. ETA 2012 at the earliest, so don't hold your breath!
Please can you reply to that email asking whether the last part therefore confirms that the tram WILL definitely come to Brixton and not Clapham then?
detective-boy
27-11-2003, 14:44
Originally posted by lang rabbie
ETA 2012 at the earliest, so don't hold your breath!
Still, not too late. Still gives you 2hrs 48mins drinking time before closing. :D
Originally posted by hatboy
Please can you reply to that email asking whether the last part therefore confirms that the tram WILL definitely come to Brixton and not Clapham then? OK.
Minnie_the_Minx
27-11-2003, 15:50
http://landmark.lambeth.gov.uk/siteimages/pic02/fullsize/01824.jpg
Rush hour on Brixton Hill with the Trams
Here's the reply I got Hatboy:
11 December 2003
TfL Ref: 29620A
Dear norse deity
East London line extension
Thank you for your letter of 27 November.
Information on the Cross River Tram Scheme can be found on our website - http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/initiatives/ini_index_cr.shtml. The future timescales will be dependent on funding and other approvals.
My colleagues in TfL Transport Planning have advised me that it is most unlikely that the Clapham proposals will be pursued further. These have never been part of the core option, which is based on going to Brixton.
Yours sincerely
David Marshall
TfL Customer Relations
Brixton Hatter
12-12-2003, 12:44
Great pic Minnie.
So does that reply mean that yes, the Tram is coming to Brixton? I *think* it does!!
Brixton Hatter
19-12-2003, 12:16
I got this reply from Transport for London. No ELL, as we thought (despite Mayor's public promise) and no commitment on the trams as yet either. But this Cross River Transit thing is defintely coming to Brixton - the link is below.
*************************
Thank you for your e-mail to the Mayor requesting clarification on the proposals for Tramlink and the East London Line extensions. I have been asked to reply on his behalf.
Mr Livingstone and Transport for London TfL accept that new stations at Brixton and/or Loughborough Junction would fit in very well with the objectives of the extended East London Line. They would provide the opportunity for passengers to interchange from local, and predominantly radial, train services onto the new orbital link and thus gain access to a greater part of the rail network in London, and also help to promote local regeneration and greater social inclusion. For these reasons TfL commissioned a feasibility study into how these stations could be provided. Unfortunately, both sites are difficult in engineering terms, requiring the stations to be up on viaducts, substantial infrastructure changes and/or land take, in order to provide stations that would meet modern design standards for safety and access. To provide such stations would be very costly, and unfortunately the costs would far outweigh the benefits.
In the circumstances, TfL and the Strategic Rail Authority, who are now taking the lead on the East London Line extension project, have concluded that it is not possible to proceed with new stations at Brixton and Loughborough Junction. However, we will continue to look into what can be done to better integrate the existing bus, National Rail, Underground and the planned Cross River Transit services at Brixton.
A TfL sponsored study was carried out during 2002 to examine several possible tramway alignments around south London, and this produced four potentially viable extensions to the Croydon Tramlink system:
South Norwood to Crystal Palace
Streatham to Purley
Tooting to Sutton
Wimbledon to Sutton
Further work is underway to establish a business case before the Mayor will be in a position to make a decision on whether to proceed with any of these proposals.
However Mr Livingstone has also given the go-ahead for the Cross River Transit scheme which will be heading to amongst other areas, Brixton and Peckham, please refer to the following link for more information:
click here (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/initiatives/ini_index_cr.shtml)
Once again thank you for taking the time to contact the Mayor and I hope the above is of help.
Yours sincerely
Jasmine Howard
Customer Relations
********************************
So it looks like we'll have no trams connected to south London - but we will have trams connected to central London. Which I think is a strange decision, considering that links from Brixton to central London are already good, and links to the south/east are the ones that are really needed.
Hatter: That's pretty much identical information to the two letters I already posted, above :p
squidlet
20-12-2003, 11:43
Originally posted by Brixton Hatter
I So it looks like we'll have no trams connected to south London - but we will have trams connected to central London. Which I think is a strange decision, considering that links from Brixton to central London are already good, and links to the south/east are the ones that are really needed.
Exactly ! It takes me 45 minutes on the comfort of the top deck of the 45 to get from Loughborough Junction to King's Cross. And if I'm in a rush I can get Thameslink or the tube. North -South is not the problmm. I really think this tram thing is a re herring and waste of time. I haven't seen how it works in Croydon but presumably there must be some pretty massive engineering / power-supply / road widening / remodelling that needs to be done. And unnecessary, certainly northbound. Can that really be more expensive than opening up cross-London rail links by building on existing stations at LJ and Brixton ? Its not exactly massive engineering to build upwards - not like digging a new tube station. Has anyone looked at / critiqued the feasibility studies ? And does anyone know when the next Forum meeting is ?
Well I want the tram. It will be a pleasure to use and to look at. Trams are beautiful. :)
... if only they looked like Minx's pic, above :). Unfortunately the Wimbledon-Croydon trams are boringly functional looking.
lang rabbie
20-12-2003, 16:22
Just followed the link - TfL are now suggesting its possible that the Transit might be built by 2011 rather than 2012 as previously suggested.
Before I make my new year's resolution - to do as I would be done by in 2004, avoid cynicism, and avoid excessive use of :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:, there's just time for this jaded old hack to ask:
Might the new date be because a promise of the tram "in seven years" would sound catchier during Ken's re-election campaign than a pledge that it will be here in eight years time?:rolleyes: Mystical/rhetorical effect of prime numbers and all that
Originally posted by Loki
... if only they looked like Minx's pic, above :). Unfortunately the Wimbledon-Croydon trams are boringly functional looking.
I disagree. I think the Croydon tram is beautiful and it is necessary and would be excellent for this area.
This was the toughest 'Then and Now' to get right - I couldn't find any street level photos of the old East Brixton station anywhere until I unearthed a dog-eared, faded image from the lambethlandmark.com site that took some major Photoshoppery to salvage.
Things weren't helped by the image being incorrectly captioned (" view from Barrington Road looking towards railway bridges and Coldharbour Lane." After several baffled attempts to take the photo from that angle I realised that the view is in fact from Coldharbour Lane!).
Anyway here it is at last!
East Brixton station (http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/east_brixton.html)
Originally posted by hatboy
I disagree. I think the Croydon tram is beautiful and it is necessary and would be excellent for this area. I don't disagree they'd be fantastic for Brixton, I just don't find them that special looking tho. They look like the modern rectangular buses but on tracks to me. But hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder :)
edit to add - nice pics ed
Pickman's model
21-12-2003, 14:44
i thought that the real reason the east london line extension isn't going to brixton was so beautiful hackney doesn't get invaded by south londoners.
;)
THE WARRIOR
21-12-2003, 21:59
Originally posted by squidlet
Exactly ! It takes me 45 minutes on the comfort of the top deck of the 45 to get from Loughborough Junction to King's Cross. And if I'm in a rush I can get Thameslink or the tube. North -South is not the problmm. I really think this tram thing is a re herring and waste of time. I haven't seen how it works in Croydon but presumably there must be some pretty massive engineering / power-supply / road widening / remodelling that needs to be done. And unnecessary, certainly northbound. Can that really be more expensive than opening up cross-London rail links by building on existing stations at LJ and Brixton ? Its not exactly massive engineering to build upwards - not like digging a new tube station. Has anyone looked at / critiqued the feasibility studies ? And does anyone know when the next Forum meeting is ?
next Coldharbour/Angell meeting on 14th Jan 7pm at St Matthews Church Lilford Rd. Minutes/Agenda should be on website - Val Shawcross (Lambeth Southwark Assembly Member will be there
"Minutes/Agenda should be on website"
What website? Does Brixton Area Frorum have one? :)
THE WARRIOR
22-12-2003, 18:06
LB Lambeth website
I don't know whether there's anything behind it, but I feel some council meetings are selectively minuted, perhaps (I say perhaps) leaving out comments from members of the public whoever is in charge thinks don't fit with the council's agenda.
i asked ken about the trams once a few years ago and he said they were too expensive and the costs of redoing the roads etc was prohibitive. the cryodon one went in at way more expensive than planned and as much as he'd like 'em he didn't see them coming back in a major way...
Streathamite
12-01-2004, 20:29
one question I would raise: what makes peeps think there's a better logical case for putting the ELl extension in SW2 as opposed to(for instance) Lewisham, Camberwell or Dulwich? just curious, that's all
Originally posted by hatboy
I don't know whether there's anything behind it, but I feel some council meetings are selectively minuted, perhaps (I say perhaps) leaving out comments from members of the public whoever is in charge thinks don't fit with the council's agenda.
Wouldn't surprise me one little bit.
Originally posted by calum
i asked ken about the trams once a few years ago and he said they were too expensive and the costs of redoing the roads etc was prohibitive. the cryodon one went in at way more expensive than planned
Maybe so but they've been bloody handy for me. And the trams are always mostly full so obviously popular with Londoners.
i agree. makes you wonder why they ripped out the lines in the first place...
lang rabbie
21-01-2004, 18:01
Just stumbled across a job advert on the Lambeth website for a Principal Project Officer - London Tram (http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/intradoc/groups/public/documents/a-default/023729.pdf) paying a fairly serious salary. So someone obviously thinks its still a runner.
citydreams
19-08-2004, 09:56
Bump.. Just wondering if anything has happened now the money *is* available
Would Lambeth Planning have the proposed path of the ELL?
PacificOcean
19-08-2004, 10:34
Edit: Someone has already said it. :o
Isambard
19-08-2004, 10:52
<Not really my forum, passes Hobnobs and stuff>
The idea to put a station in Brixton with direct trains to SE London has been doing the rounds in the railway trade press for at least 20 years. Anyone anoracky enough might find old stories in the archives of the publisher Ian Allan.
Sorry this story is just TYPICAL Britain when it comes down to public transport! :mad: :rolleyes:
It's not popular ;) but I'll put on my tin foil hat and guess that the costs of a new station in Brisxton have been massively overestimated for a reason!
<wanders back off to sex and diseases forum> :)
Errol's son
19-08-2004, 11:38
http://www.ellp.co.uk/stations.htm
Hoxton seems to be getting a brand new fancy station on top of a viaduct. That must cost a fair few million?
It seems that the ELL is not really there for the benefit of south Londoners. All the expenditure is going to east London. It is just being routed through exisiting south London stations on the cheap.
PacificOcean
19-08-2004, 12:50
I don't see the point of the southern extention. It goes around London rather than into it. So for example getting on at Anerley will mean a FOURTEEN stations ride before reaching the first tube interchange miles away in Whitechapel.
Pickman's model
19-08-2004, 12:54
i thought for a minute that the lack of east london line in brixton would be a bad thing - it would make it easier for me to get back from offline, the albert &c if the ell were extended that far - but then i realised that the positive side of the coin is south londoners being kept in south london. which can't be a bad thing! :p
Brixton Hatter
19-08-2004, 12:55
I don't see the point of the southern extention. It goes around London rather than into it. So for example getting on at Anerley will mean a FOURTEEN stations ride before reaching the first tube interchange miles away in Whitechapel.
Surely the point is to give a tube station to hitherto unconnected areas of south London? Going across south London is quite difficult at present - try getting a bus from, say, Forest Hill to Putney and it would take you ages. Going IN to London is not a problem from most places in south London as most areas have an overground which gets to victoria/london bridge etc in about 10/15/20 minutes.
citydreams
19-08-2004, 12:57
I guess it's handy to get from Anerley to that booming metropolis, Croydon
I guess it's handy to get from Anerley to that booming metropolis, Croydon
The planners seem to to want people not to leave Anerley. They could be said to be Anerley retentive.
PacificOcean
19-08-2004, 13:11
Surely the point is to give a tube station to hitherto unconnected areas of south London? Going across south London is quite difficult at present - try getting a bus from, say, Forest Hill to Putney and it would take you ages. Going IN to London is not a problem from most places in south London as most areas have an overground which gets to victoria/london bridge etc in about 10/15/20 minutes.
But it's not connecting anything new. It's going over the same track as Southern trains, just branching off at New Cross instead. Same tracks, different trains. I just don't see the point, or am I missing something.
Errol's son
19-08-2004, 13:14
But it's not connecting anything new. It's going over the same track as Southern trains, just branching off at New Cross instead. Same tracks, different trains. I just don't see the point, or am I missing something.
Clapham Junction is not on the tube.
Perhaps many well-heeled types living over there need an easier way to get to work in the Docklands without having to interchange in central London?
PacificOcean
19-08-2004, 13:19
Clapham Junction is not on the tube.
Perhaps many well-heeled types living over there need an easier way to get to work in the Docklands without having to interchange in central London?
Anaork Alert!!!!
Tecnichally Clapham Junction is already connected to the tube. At East Putney the District Line branches off and connects to the bit between Putney and Clapham Junction on the South West Trains Line.
Errol's son
19-08-2004, 13:33
Does anyone know how integrated the northern line will be at Clapham North when the ELL arrives at Claphma High Street?
I don't really call that integrated at the moment - between the tube and train - as you have to exit a station, walk a bit, cross a main road, walk a bit more and then enter a new station with a different name. I wouldn't fancy that interchange if I was in a wheelchair, I don't think.
gaijingirl
19-08-2004, 13:39
The planners seem to to want people not to leave Anerley. They could be said to be Anerley retentive.
:D :D :D
Isambard
19-08-2004, 13:42
You know, it this worked out you could go Brixton - Clapham Junc, Clapham Junc-Willesden Junc, Willesden Junc- Highbury and Islington, making the Victoria Line superfluous!
But the main point is, most European large cities have very good radial routes but shite tangental ones.
citydreams
19-08-2004, 13:49
Anaork Alert!!!!
Tecnichally Clapham Junction is already connected to the tube. At East Putney the District Line branches off and connects to the bit between Putney and Clapham Junction on the South West Trains Line.
The Clapham Junction - High & I is Phase II of the plan... so there must be a need from some new line, otherwise the Clah'm Rangers would have their Dockland Express by now.
Wonder why they ever closed the spurs of the ELL that ran down to OLD Kent Road and Peckham? (you can still see the remains of the track bed as you head south past Surrey Quays.) I love the ELL. It has a fascinating history, having been used for freight, various steam excursons to Brighten in the old days, and now the tube. Not to mention the famous tunnel under the Thames. The trains just trundle sedately along and there is a very friendly driver with a Jamaican accent who intones "relax and enjoy the journey." Right friendly guy. It's more of a toy train than a tube, IMO.
A real shame they closed East Brixton. I have a great book on the South London Line with some nice photos depicting the station at various times. Useful interchange.
Double anorark alert - actually £50m for a station may sound a little pricey but the economic benefits they'd need to justify that are only about £2.5-3m a year (for any economists reading the government uses a real discount rate of 3%). Given the value they put on people's time (I seem to remember about £5-10 an hour) this would be justified by about 10,000 people saving 15 minutes each on 200 days a year. Maybe a train spotter type can tell us whether that sounds realistic for the benefits of a new tube connection - sounds fairly reasonable to me.
lang rabbie
19-08-2004, 17:37
The "funding package" for the East London Line is only for "phase 1" - to Dalston Junction, West Croydon and Crystal Palace.
The Clapham Junction branch running through Brixton is now in "phase 2", with no confirmed timetable. :( (The northern extension to Highbury and Islington is similarly delayed.)
TFL press release 20 July (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-releases/2004/july/press-1110.shtml)
TFL map of initiatives including two phases of ELL (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/downloads/pdf/ELLmapA3.pdf)
Sadly, I'm not surprised, as this is exactly what I predicted on 21 April (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1695233&postcount=2) when Val Shawcross was making a song and dance about her support for the Brixton and Loughborough Junction stations (just before the local elections).
Brixton Hatter
20-08-2004, 14:35
Tecnichally Clapham Junction is already connected to the tube. At East Putney the District Line branches off and connects to the bit between Putney and Clapham Junction on the South West Trains Line.
The Mayor promised to put Clapham Junction on the tube map a few years ago: he said he'd get them to redraw all the tube maps so that a little dotted line went from Victoria to Clapham Junction. :D
(Not a bad idea IMHO, seeing as many people (esp tourists) don't realise that trains run from Victoria to Clapham Junction at pretty much the same frequency as most tube lines run trains - every 5 mins or so)
Lang, since these rail annoucements I can't get the mayor's office to confirm that the tram for Brixton will still come. They evade the question. Can you or others try?
lang rabbie
20-08-2004, 19:03
Lang, since these rail annoucements I can't get the mayor's office to confirm that the tram for Brixton will still come. They evade the question. Can you or others try?
AFAIK No public change of stance (i.e. it is still usually described as a tram, not just as transit, which could be a segregated bus route), just no guarantee of money.
Think that the likely timetable for Government to announce the rest of the transport plans following Gordon Brown's spending review is some time in November.
IMHO Priorities for the various tram/transit/tube/rail proposals are likely to favour docklands/east London if the Olympic bid is successful.
lang rabbie
09-09-2004, 10:30
For your information...
East London Line
Question No: 858 / 2004
Valerie Shawcross
What progress has the LDA made in looking at the potential for a regeneration study on the impact of creating stops on the East London Line for Loughborough Junction and Brixton?
The LDA is currently working closely with TfL, and Lambeth and Southwark Councils to provide intelligence on the impact of the East London Line Extension. One study is seeking to establish the development potential around existing and proposed stations on the extension, and it has been specifically requested to look at the Brixton/Loughborough area. A second study is being led by the LDA and is assessing the economic impact of the extension, with a view to specifically identifying and demonstrating the benefits of the proposals. Again the consultants have specifically been asked to look at Loughborough/ Brixton area, both with and without a station.
These studies will report in the near future and it is the LDA’s intention, given Valerie Shawcross’s interest, to meet with her when the results are known. Aside from this, provision has been made within the London South Central area programme to provide a small amount of resources for Loughborough Junction specific research if it is proved necessary.
PacificOcean
09-09-2004, 10:40
The Mayor promised to put Clapham Junction on the tube map a few years ago: he said he'd get them to redraw all the tube maps so that a little dotted line went from Victoria to Clapham Junction. :D
(Not a bad idea IMHO, seeing as many people (esp tourists) don't realise that trains run from Victoria to Clapham Junction at pretty much the same frequency as most tube lines run trains - every 5 mins or so)
What's in Clapham Junction that draws the tourists?
What's in Clapham Junction that draws the tourists?
Britains busiest railway station, silly.
citydreams
09-09-2004, 10:53
For your information...
Which part of Transport for London will be looking at this?
lang rabbie
09-09-2004, 11:08
Which part of Transport for London will be looking at this?
It won't be - LDA = London Development Agency, another part of the Mayor's family of bodies. As I posted ages ago, I don't see any station being built unless there is a large scale redevelopment next door.
citydreams
09-09-2004, 11:13
..and there isn't? How much longer can the Loughborough estate go without redevelopment?
Bring back East Brixton station!
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/images/east_brixton4.jpg
It won't be - LDA = London Development Agency, another part of the Mayor's family of bodies. As I posted ages ago, I don't see any station being built unless there is a large scale redevelopment next door.
How large scale do you mean? Is this (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81622) the kind of thing (102 flat block built on the site of the industrial buildings on Belinda Road), or do you mean something like a shopping/office centre being built on the Higgs Industrial Estate?
lang rabbie
09-09-2004, 12:35
How large scale do you mean? Is this (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81622) the kind of thing (102 flat block built on the site of the industrial buildings on Belinda Road), or do you mean something like a shopping/office centre being built on the Higgs Industrial Estate?
Pass
Current health and safety, Disability Discrimination Act and other requirements for new railway infrastructure mean that new platforms at LJ will require widening the high level viaduct. Cost figures I've heard bandied about were £15+ million (as against £50 million for Brixton).
BTW I've never seen anything on paper to support these.
I suppose they'd need to calculate some implicit value for the social benefits from the new station (e.g. easier access to jobs market for local residents) that would justify some extra public sector contribution, with the balance being expected to come from the development deal.
Edited to add: Just phoned my railway industry source, who mentioned that only this week the Strategic Rail Authority published a "Comprehensive guide to planning new railway stations" (http://www.sra.gov.uk/news/2004/9/station_proposals)
Doesn't sound too encouraging...
The document explains that introducing new stations is a complex process that requires detailed assessment and appraisal. This work needs to consider a wide range of issues including the commercial / economic, operational and technical impacts of the proposal. It also makes clear that with limited funding available to the rail industry, the financing of proposed station developments - both in terms of capital costs and ongoing revenue support - should be considered from the outset.
boomclick
13-09-2004, 14:50
latest TFL plans unveiled. dunno about you but i think it looks quite promising...
http://www.colourcountry.net/images/south-london-underground.png
:D
<editor: click on link for thumping great map>
boomclick
13-09-2004, 14:51
ooops. sorry. that was bigger than i thought it was going to be...
lang rabbie
13-09-2004, 15:21
plus there's the small matter of that map already having a thread all to itself (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=86781)
boomclick
13-09-2004, 16:01
doh! :rolleyes:
that'll teach me to not read all the other threads before posting on one... ;)
IntoStella
13-09-2004, 16:09
doh! :rolleyes:
that'll teach me to not read all the other threads before posting on one... ;)At least you're posting *something*... It's all a bit tumbleweed-tastic.
For your information...
The consultants for the LDA are I notice going to do a study looking at LJ and Brixton both with and without a ELL station.Is this similar to the LDA ideas behind making certain areas "Cultural quarters" I wonder?I thought the LDA were already funding a worker looking at regeneration in Brixton and LJ.
I can see the logice of putting Brixtion/LJJ station in the ELL.I wonder however if those who are keen on it realise it will make Brixton/LJJ more "desirable" for developers as certainly the land values/house prices will go up around where there are stations.
This could lead to further gentrification of the area rather than more "social inclusion".I wonder if the LDA or TfL consultants are going to look at how this possible problem could be dealt with.
Im going to the Coldharbour forum tonight for once-though i expect it will cover mainly this issue.
citydreams
15-09-2004, 14:03
The consultants for the LDA are I notice going to do a study looking at LJ and Brixton
How on earth do you know that...? large pair of binoculars?
How on earth do you know that...? large pair of binoculars?
Lang Rabbie posted it up earlier.
Red Faction
30-10-2005, 16:33
just to clarify:
phase 2 of the ELL extension will include brixton but it will cost a lot and thats why its been put back?
or is it a DEFINITE no?
also
where about in clapham will it be?
it says clapham high street
that could be anywhere between clapham north and clapham common right?
phase 2 of the ELL extension will include brixton but it will cost a lot and thats why its been put back?
Brixton isn't on the Phase 2 map at all.
that could be anywhere between clapham north and clapham common right?
No, it's the existing Clapham High Street station, right by Clapham North,
TFL map (220k PDF) (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/downloads/pdf/ELLmapA3.pdf)
The TFL map shows what looks a lot like a Victoria exension to Herne Hill, though it's ambiguous...
Streetmap (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=529727&y=175770&z=4&sv=529727,175770&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=529727&ay=175770)
Red Faction
30-10-2005, 20:26
Brixton isn't on the Phase 2 map at all.
:( :(
No, it's the existing Clapham High Street station, right by Clapham North,
oh- thats not too bad then
The TFL map shows what looks a lot like a Victoria exension to Herne Hill, though it's ambiguous...
cheers laptop
Bits of clearing being done down at New Cross and New Cross Gate. Installation of some substations or other equipment. I guess it's just reinstatement, really...
happyshopper
31-10-2005, 17:35
I can see the logice of putting Brixtion/LJJ station in the ELL.I wonder however if those who are keen on it realise it will make Brixton/LJJ more "desirable" for developers as certainly the land values/house prices will go up around where there are stations.
This could lead to further gentrification of the area rather than more "social inclusion".
This is true of any improvement in transport infrastructure. The logical extension of the argument is to campaign for the closure of the Victoria Line.
i wouldnt hold your breath on any of this..
my parents moved to sutton in the 70s when there was plans for the tube extending out there.. there still waiting! (no bad thing tho!)
TFL and LT etc before them have been banging on about the ELL and Tram extension for years.
i think the ELL will happen.
however, seeing whats happening in leeds with their much delayed tram project, i think that form of transit sadly is under a lot of pressure.
Leeds just isnt happening, despite huge amounts of prep work and long periods of roadworks, compulsory purchases and the like. baffling.
dark mutterings of the financial viablity of croydon/manchester/sheffield..
lets hope ken see past all that..
William of Walworth
31-10-2005, 20:48
<rapid transit/tram systems>
lets hope ken see past all that..
The glossy stuff I have about the Elephant redevelopment (which I'll post more about soon, honest :o ) very definitely predicts the North South tram link will happen ...
i think the ELL will happen.
.
It is happening!
The glossy stuff I have about the Elephant redevelopment (which I'll post more about soon, honest :o ) very defisnitely predicts the North South tram link will happen ...
well thats good news for sure. the more public transport the better.
i had read this yesterday
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1604971,00.html
through a previous job a couple of years ago i was aware of the tram scheme in leeds and saw for myself all the prep works that were going on (roadworks etc)... and now all bets could be off and worse the National Audit Office calling the other tram networks 'a triumph of hope over experience'
its also my experience in london that lots of ideas are mooted and take a long time to come to fruition. the ELL has been on the cards in various guises for donkeys years.
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