View Full Version : Synergy and Cooltan
steve indigenou
18-11-2003, 13:57
Hmmm,
Josef, with the best of intentions, has posted a mesage that seems to suggest that Synergy is in some way directly related to Cooltan. Though there are some similarities, there are perhaps more differences and the reaction to his post (and the content on the Synergy web-site) reflects this.
I'm not goint to defend Synergy's chosen approach of going more legit, using language accetpable to the mainstream (not least to the local authority / regeneration sector that holds most of the funding), as I know that the ideological divide that separates us and the 'anti's is pretty large. It's very easy to slag us off when you haven't been to one of our events, and I for one don't want to disturb the romantic notion that raging aganst the machine is a constructive way to build a better future.
Some observations however, would not go amiss :
Cooltan failed to build good community relations with either the council or the wider mainstream community, so when the time came to put in a bid for the old Dolehouse (which was on the market for absolute peanuts), the building went to the Voice and has been empty ever since.
Cooltan did not have a formal structure and was hijacked by Brixton's Favourite Politician, who is said (by people I know personally who were involved in the project) to have re-directed funds in an informal way to support his own activities because the accounting systems were insufficiently transparent to prevent him from doing so.
Indigenous People, one of the organisations behind Synergy, was born out of Ecotrip (itself hijacked by Brixton's Favourite Politician after the demiseof Cooltan), represented a conscious decision to 'go legit' and work with authority not against it. In 2002 we were awarded £42k from the Arts Council to do cultural education work with Primary School kids across the country, working witha group of Ghanaian drummers to combat racism and promote creativity among young people.
In 2003, Indigenous People and other partners have set up the Brixton Synergy Centre to continue this work with a broader remit, and have been awarded £41k by Lambeth Council to set up the centre under discussion. It does not seek to be another Cooltan, but to work in a very different way to secure its sustainability. Kakatsitsi, the Ghanaian drummers regularly work in local schools to educate the kids about black music and culture. I have spent 7 years of my life, and about £15k of my family's money, supporting the drummers and their families.
Capitalist ? Of course.
:confused:
The Synergy Project is supported by : Greenpeace, Oxfam, War on Want, the Vegan Society, The Gaia Foundation, Survival International...the list is a long one. Are these people 'Capitalists too ?
:confused:
If people want to dismiss us as 'capitalists' just because we try to earn a living from doing campaigning work, then that's their choice. If they can show that they are having a decent impact tackling the probelms facing people in mainstream society, then I will respect their views as evidence that their are many ways to promote change in society. However, I think that too many people in the alternative movement prefer to snipe from the side-lines and slag off the efforts of others than to actually do anything that affects the lives of anyone outside their own circles. This, after all, was one of the main criticisms of Cooltan, that it had very little impact on the lives of ordinary Brixtonians, but was a fantstic resource for the alternative fringe.
Fraser Clark has nothing to do with Synergy, in fact many of us have worked with him and have organised the project in such a way as to prevent his kind of methods from being possible. But then again, anyone who was involved in Cooltan who I have talked to tells me that Brixton's Favourite Politician was JUST as exploitative as Fraser Clark, something which was very much borne out of my experiences with him in Ecotrip. The exploitative nature of the relationships in both organisations is said by some to be one of the reasons why good people ended up leaving as they were unable to stomach the exploitation. Synergy, on the other hand, is formally structured to avoid such exploitation, BECAUSE the experiences of working with Fraser and BFP have directly informed the way we have set it up.
Synergy is 'inspired by' Cooltan, it does not seek to re-create Cooltan or pass itself off as Cooltan. It is also inspired by Megatripolis, the Warp Experience, The Liquid Spiral Collective, Ecotrip, Return to the Source - all of them ground-breaking projetcs in their own right and all of them flawed in some way or another. We have also witnessed the success of Chris Tofu in setting up Continental Drifts, which gets sheds loads of money from the Arts Council and corporate clients to support alternative performers, musicians etc. Is he a capitalist too ?
You know the interesting thing ? Michelle, who is now running Cooltan (which is still going of course) contacted us recently. She too has gone legit, and has set up Cooltan as a charity focussing on arts education / empowerment work with young women, and she was interested to see if there was some scope for collaboration.
I must get back to her...
Wishing you all the best in your efforts..
Steve
Indigenous People
The Synergy Project
The Brixton Synergy Centre
I don't think people have a particular problem with the existance of Synergy - but it was posted here as being 'like Cooltan' - which, apparently, it is not.
To many people, this creates a bone that needs a fair (ice/egg/kitten)picking.
either way you should definately use one or the other - or just stay indoors out of the sun ;)
OK, I've digested all this now. And firstly I'm not one of the people having a go. Perhaps the Cooltan reference, if it wasn't a marketing tool, then needed more explanation.
However, I think people who post here should give new posters more room before leaping in with criticism.
Otherwise we will be left with an increasingly small clique in here and that was never what either Mike, nor I, wanted.
To Josef and Indigenou - you are very welcome here as are all new posters. But be careful about posting stuff about money making events. A good idea is to offer a freebie to the first 10 (or whatever) to email you (like Brixtown Special does). I think that's fair enough.
:)
Incidentally, I don't know, but I would imagine "Brixton's favourite politician" (I presume you mean S**** *******) would have a different version of events.
psytrance is still rubbish though :p
I've got two brand new packets of Rizla :)
and they're blue ones :) :) :)
jdaviescoates
18-11-2003, 16:42
Steve: thanks for clearing things up.
Hatboy: thanks for the advice to me and other, and for the welcome.
Blagsta: I don't really like trance either! Thankfully synergy has a live music room too (I would've gone to the last one had I not been working for an evil capitalist friend of my mum's at 6am on sunday morning) :)
Everyone: apologies for my innocent (honest, guv) mistake and for all the confusion caused.
Peace,
Josef.
jdaviescoates
18-11-2003, 16:46
Originally posted by kevvv
I've got two brand new packets of Rizla :)
and they're blue ones
That's very nice for you kevvv.
I prefer Smoking Eco Hemp Kingsize Slims. Can get them cheap too, if you're interested?
Won't post a link though. I'm scared :eek:
PM or e-mail me if you're interested. ;)
Peace,
Josef.
Dubversion
18-11-2003, 17:08
so my initial point still stands - the link with cooltan was a spurious and potentialy misleading one, although not one, it seems, generated by synergy themselves, so that's cool (although josef, perhaps you should have checked before throwing that in).
the thrust of my argument hinged on that link and the repercussions that would have if the venture was making such claims
(my feelings about psytrance, dr yakkers and a 15 door fee were secondary).
as for you being capitalists - that's not something that bothers me either way, provided it's again not being done as a cooltan style project (which you've explained it isn't).
however, im pretty unhappy that the way synergy is being disassociated from cooltan seems to rest on accusations levelled at 'Brixton's favourite politician'.
other points: i didnt say fraser clarke had anything to do with it, i just said it seemed to be a similar venture.
respect to steve for coming and clearing things up - as i've said my issue was with the apparent cooltan branding, but this obviously doesn't arise from yourself so no qualms there.
as for chris tofu - he's a mate and i have no problems with the corporate stuff he does, it gets deserving acts/crew work. same for you lot - best of luck (even if to be honest it sounds like my idea of hell ;) )
Magatripolis was ace
The Warp Experience, fan-bloody-tastic( Dubs, you would have liked it, the Trance was in one little room at the back, the rest was just fuckin bonkers!)
If you are heading in that kind if direction Steve, excellent, I for one will attend with massive smile on my chops
:) Good, that's a better communication. Things don't survive on a squat basis for ever so if these various arts and event/rave groups are formalising their existence and running on a more commercial basis that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Blagsta: I don't really like trance either!
Its not just that, its the whole chakra, shamanic alignment nonsense that puts me off. Its a fucking party, with some community awareness in. It ain't gonna save the world.
Originally posted by hipipol
The Warp Experience, fan-bloody-tastic( Dubs, you would have liked it, the Trance was in one little room at the back, the rest was just fuckin bonkers!)
it was a corker yes..... :) That 24-hour play was something else, wasn't it!
This synergy thing sounds alright and pretty fluffy as long is it's not promoting itself to be something it's not. :)
Originally posted by steve indigenou
Cooltan did not have a formal structure and was hijacked by Brixton's Favourite Politician, who is said (by people I know personally who were involved in the project) to have re-directed funds in an informal way to support his own activities because the accounting systems were insufficiently transparent to prevent him from doing so.
I do hope you can support that damning and potentially defamatory accusation.
(throwing around serious accusations of theft about a non-present third party sure seems a strange - and unpleasant - way to introduce yourself, btw)
steve indigenou
19-11-2003, 16:48
Thanks everyone for the constructive input.
As for my allegations about BFP, I can back them up all the way and would do so with ease in any libel court if called upon to do so. I was not involved in Cooltan, but went to their parties, which inspired me to do what I do.
I was however, the founder of Ecotrip, which kinda followed Cooltan in Brixton and had first hand experiences of funds made at parties being directed towards purchasing Green Party publications without the knowledge or consent of the other members. I was the one who audited his accounts and found the discrepancy, which he had tried to cover up. I am also reliably involved by people who WERE involved in Cooltan that similar things took place then.
The point of saying this was to show why decent accounting procedures are totally vital to insure financial transparency, which is an integral part of organisational democracy. Loads of underground projects pay lip service to democratic modes of operation but do not have structures that provide it, but lapse into an informal 'tyranny of structureless' whereby one or a few charismatic individuals rule the roost at the expense of the wider group. This issue of structured transparency was one of the reasons why we went 'legit' as an integral part of doing so is to sort out issues surrounding decision making and accountability.
So, when we talk about 'Conscious' partying, it's not just about raising awareness of the audience, but raising our own awareness of harmonious ways of working and structuring our relaitonships. Which is why whoever says 'it's just a party' is wrong in my opinion - it's about exploring news avenues of sustainable development by working on a project that, all the stress aside, is fund and rewarding emotionally/spiritually if not financially).
We are going to reivew the door charge issue - my suggestion is going to be to have a £10 concession. To give people an idea why we charge this much, the venue costs £5,500 + VAT and as aspiring professionals we don't want to work in squats (which we had done so under the Liquid Spiral banner) as health and safety was very hard to sustain and charging more than £5 was unethical yet insufficient to compensate people with families for weeks of work. The decision to go overground was a prolonged and for some agonising one, but the idea is that there are loads of people who would be amenable to progressive messages (such as those we source from NGOs of all descriptions) but who would not have the courage to go to a squat party, or who would can afford the £15 that everyone else charges for their overground trance parties.
As for trance, I agree that while it was great in 1996, now it's pretty tired. Having said that, the trance audience is the most progressive (compared to house, garage, d&B) and I can't stand techno. But it's not just a trance party, but has 5 rooms of all sorts of eclectic stuff, including at the next one, some Asian beats from Hubble Bubble.
Yes, it's a pay event, but I will suggest the idea of the 10 free tickets to the 10 first emails to the group tonight.
Thanks for the constructive discussion.
Synergy Steve
Sorry to be a cynic, but how does playing fucking psy-trance and whittering on meaninglessly about chakras and other such hippy nonsense translate into "exploring news avenues of sustainable development"? :confused:
I'm all for community organisations and spaces (I used to run one in Birmingham), but please get rid of the faux Eastern mysticism schtick. Its nauseating.
I'm still very uncomfortable about you broadcasting - for no good reason - direct accusations about 'BFP'.
Embroiling yourself in an unnecessary slagging of someone who isn't here to defend themselves doesn't seem a particularly honourable thing to do - so why do it?
Originally posted by Blagsta
I'm all for community organisations and spaces (I used to run one in Birmingham), but please get rid of the faux Eastern mysticism schtick. Its nauseating. That's the thing that puts me off the complete venture the most.
I'm not interested in whooping it up to cod-mystic bollocks like 'Hail, Divine Tara, Radiant Mother of Compassion and Great Protector' and don't see what it's got to do with the stated aims of the organisation.
And for al the talk of inclusion, I'd imagine I won't be the only person thoroughly repelled by this "Goa-on-a-stick" philosophy.
I believe I'm gonna
Shut down my chakras, shift Shiva offa my shelf
Take down my tie dyes, my Tibetan bells
Cool down my karma with a can of O.P.T.
Ain't no call for Casteneda in my frontline library.
There's one thing I know, Lord above,
I ain't gonna go,
I ain't goin' to Goa, Ain't goin' to Goa now
Ain't goin' to Goa, Ain't gonna Goa now.
Ain't dancin' trance, no thanx, no chance to t-t-tranquilise me.
Ain't sippin' no smart bar drinks, no that don't satisfy me.
Dosing up my dharma, with a drop of gasoline,
I ain't down with Mr. McKenna, tantric mantra talkin' don't move me.
I don't need no freaky, deeky, fractal geometry, crystal silicon chip.
I ain't walking on lay lines, reading no High Times put me on another bad trip.
Timothy Leary, just check out this theory,
he sold acid for the F.B.I.
Well, he ain't no website wonder, the guru just went under,
you can keep your California Sunshine.
'Cos the righteous truth is, there ain't nothing worse than
some fool lying on some Third World beach wearing
spandex, psychedelic trousers, smoking damn dope
pretending he gettin' consciousness expansion. I want
consciousness expansion, I go to my local tabernacle
an' I sing with the brothers and sisters
jdaviescoates
19-11-2003, 17:38
Originally posted by editor
Embroiling yourself in an unnecessary slagging of someone who isn't here to defend themselves doesn't seem a particularly honourable thing to do - so why do it?
Good question. But that's what most people here (including you) were doing about steve and synergy before he was here to defend himself.
I advise going to take another look in the mirror. :)
FFS get off your high horse! Just state that you don't tparticularly like the wording and marketing of synergy (as Dubversion did) and leave it at that. Please.
Peace,
Josef.
jdaviescoates
19-11-2003, 17:43
Originally posted by editor
I'm still very uncomfortable about you broadcasting - for no good reason - direct accusations about 'BFP'.
BTW, your responses regarding 'BFP' (who, incidentally, I have no opinion of, not knowing him from adam) were predicted by fellow urbanites as soon as steve wrote them.
I understand that you are old chums with BFP, in which case, why don't you invite him to come and defend himself, as I did steve?
Peace,
Josef.
jdaviescoates
19-11-2003, 17:49
Originally posted by editor
And for al the talk of inclusion, I'd imagine I won't be the only person thoroughly repelled by this "Goa-on-a-stick" philosophy.
Since you seem to enjoy keeping this dirty, let me add that I am thoroughly repelled by your obtuse righteousness and the "I've got dreads so I'm a real hippy, oh and and I'm always right" bullshit.
Peace and Love from a truly genuine non-dreadlocked non-goa-trance hippy. ;)
Josef.
bristle-krs
19-11-2003, 17:56
i think i preferred 3s*r*p*s
:rolleyes:
every post you make, jdc, seems calculated to put in another dig.
what is the point? why go out of your way to wind people up?
and what do you mean, "keeping this dirty"? what's 'dirty', making accusations at unnamed third parties, or calling for them to be substantiated or retracted? and where on earth did the "I've got dreads so I'm a real hippy, oh and and I'm always right" thing come from?
:confused:
genuinely bemused
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Since you seem to enjoy keeping this dirty, let me add that I am thoroughly repelled by your obtuse righteousness and the "I've got dreads so I'm a real hippy, oh and and I'm always right" bullshit.
I'd hate to call you a fucking bullshitting liar, so I do hope you've got a nice collection of quotes from me where I make such ridiculous claims.
And let's get one thing straight: I ain't no fucking hippy
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
I understand that you are old chums with BFP, in which case, why don't you invite him to come and defend himself, as I did steve? If I happen to see him in the pub, I'll be sure to mention the defamatory accusations being posted up here.
I'm sure it'll help create even more great publicity for your venture.
Mind you, you're doing a quite magnificent job of putting people off Synergy.
Who'd want to hang out with a bunch of hippies who spend their time pointlessly and needlessly accusing fellow activists of stealing money on a public forum?
The fact that he doesn't even post here - and that the supposed theft took place over 5 years ago - makes the comments all the more despicable, unnecessary and vindictive.
Peace, love and defamation anyone?
William of Walworth
19-11-2003, 19:01
I'm torn between two reactions -- first is to want the Favourite Politician in question come along and say something on his own behalf to allow us a more balanced picture, second is very much not to want this to escalate.
It's all turned a bit unpleasant :(
Not very peace and love at all -- this sort of thing gives hippies a bad name :(
Steve and (especially) josef -- please think a bit about exactly why you've got so hostile a reaction here -- it isn't because regulars here are intolerant. I don't think either of you are quite aware of how much you've ruffled feathers up wrongly.
Like bristolkrs I'm genuinely puzzled as to why you felt the need ... many would have reacted more positively to all this if
1. The Cooltan comparison
and
2. The defamatory looking statements (steve)
and
3. The gratuitous insults (josef) had been left out.
All very unnecessary ....
I agree with:
"FFS get off your high horse! Just state that you don't particularly like the wording and marketing of Synergy (as Dubversion did) and leave it at that. Please".
but I also agree with:
"Sorry to be a cynic, but how does playing fucking psy-trance and whittering on meaninglessly about chakras and other such hippy nonsense translate into exploring news avenues of sustainable development?
I'm all for community organisations and spaces....... but please get rid of the faux Eastern mysticism schtick. Its nauseating".
And I don't call £10 much of a concession myself.
But whatever, bung us a freebie and I'll come along anyway. ;) :cool:
jdaviescoates
19-11-2003, 20:22
Shall we all just call it a day?
As dubversion (albeit quite rudely and obnoxiously - sorry, but it's true) pointed out, I fucked up when I started a thread called "The Synergy Project (CoolTan revisited)". It was a plain and simple innocent fuck up, no more, no less.
NO ONE at synergy has EVER tried to Cooltan-brand themselves on this board. It was all me and my fuck up, and while I support the synergy project and want to do some nights in their venue when it opens, I currently have VERY little to do with the project (although I've been to one of their meetings, have spoken to and met steve a couple of times and have handed out a few of their flyers)
It has since transpired that Synergy was indeed partly inspired by Cooltan, but that it probably has more differences from it than similarities to it.
In my mind they were/ are both seeking to acheive similar goals, but have chosen the use of different tactics. Simple.
I only wish I could turn back the clock and see what the reation would have been if my intro to synergy had been framed differently. Guess we'll never know.
Peace and Love to all (hippy and non-hippy) u75ers.
Josef.
PS hatboy: I picked up 'urbanites' from Spud Murphy III, but will cease to refer to you and other u75ers in this way in the future. :)
Carry on talking about the others using the word "urbanites" if you like, they like it, just not me thanks. :)
Shame about all the fuss. Don't really want to judge your thing too harshly till I've been. But I can see what people mean.
jdaviescoates
19-11-2003, 20:39
Originally posted by hatboy
Carry on talking about the others using the word "urbanites" if you like, they like it, just not me thanks. :)
Shame about all the fuss. Don't really want to judge your thing too harshly till I've been. But I can see what people mean.
It is a shame about all the fuss, yes, but just to make things crystal clear:
SYNERGY IS NOT 'MY' THING. I'm about as involved in the project as Cooltan is! ;)
However, having met and spoken to a lot of the inspiring people involved in the project (and not from reading their website which I think could be greatly improved) I thoroughly support their work.
My 'thing' is http://www.uniteddiversity.com - nothing to do trance (that is featured in *one* of the *5* rooms at synergy) because I prefer a bit of live funk, soul, reggae and jazz (and happen to know a load of fucking good musicians).
Peace,
Josef.
Did some good parties, used to be on their mailing list
I suggest that if any of the Synergy crew are ex-Liquid we all give the benefit of the doubt for the present.
It seems a little harsh to condemn something before it has even opened.
As for all the Goa slagging bit, unless you've been there, FUCK OFF!!!!
Dubversion
19-11-2003, 21:30
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Good question. But that's what most people here (including you) were doing about steve and synergy before he was here to defend himself.
I advise going to take another look in the mirror. :)
FFS get off your high horse! Just state that you don't tparticularly like the wording and marketing of synergy (as Dubversion did) and leave it at that. Please.
Peace,
Josef.
ok.. i've prevaricated long enough and you are an arse.
we DID NOT judge steve and synergy on their own merits. as has been repeated often enough even for someone of your Biblical levels of tenaciousness and obtuseness, the issue was with your branding.
i'm tiring of you now, you're not even an interesting wind-up merchant.
Originally posted by hipipol
As for all the Goa slagging bit, unless you've been there, FUCK OFF!!!!
No, I haven't been there, but its all the cod-mysticism that goes with that brand of trance that gets on my tits. Fuckin'ell, I'm a bit of a cozzer, I'm re-reading RAW's Illuminatus trilogy at at the moment, but please take it all with a pinch of salt and a critical eye...
"i'm tiring of you now, you're not even an interesting wind-up merchant."
You sure there isn't something behind all this you're not telling us Dub? Your rection seems OTT to someone you don't know.
Anyway, could you stop now please.
Dubversion
20-11-2003, 00:25
Originally posted by hatboy
"i'm tiring of you now, you're not even an interesting wind-up merchant."
You sure there isn't something behind all this you're not telling us Dub? Your rection seems OTT to someone you don't know.
Anyway, could you stop now please.
i thought i had, it's young josef who in every post - masquerading as some kind of apology/explanation/olive branch - slips in another snide little comment.
as if nobody ever gets on your tits, hatboy :p
Originally posted by hatboy
You sure there isn't something behind all this you're not telling us Dub?
nothing at all, thanks
I think perhaps we should all go to the opening night and spend some time chanting Om Shanti Shiva Om under a teepee
This would re-balance the mood energy like:D :D
isvicthere?
20-11-2003, 11:09
jdc - why do you end each of your (increasingly) truculent posts with the epithet "Peace"?
Originally posted by hipipol
I think perhaps we should all go to the opening night and spend some time chanting Om Shanti Shiva Om under a teepee The only chanting that comes out of my mouth goes along the lines of, "WE LOVE YOU CARDIFF, WE DO...."
jdaviescoates
20-11-2003, 11:47
Originally posted by isvicthere?
jdc - why do you end each of your (increasingly) truculent posts with the epithet "Peace"?
Hey man, coz I'm kinda like a peace loving hippy dude y'know. :D
Well, actually, because however my truculent my posts may seems to you (or others), I really mean no harm or disrespect to anybody. My peace is heartfelt and honest.
Having made more posts than I normally do on boards though, I'm starting to tire of it too...
But here goes anyway,
Peace,
Josef.
Spud Murphy III
20-11-2003, 11:54
The Phone Co-op looks good (from the link on your site).
Originally posted by William of Walworth
Not very peace and love at all -- this sort of thing gives hippies a bad name :(
I don't know what the dictionary definition of a 'hippy' is, but I thought it was about being open, into not hurting things, and generally being a peaceful person. You certainly don't have to be into chakras and psychedelic trance, dear William, do you?! I'd certainly strike myself of the hippy register if so ;)
It always seems to be used as a derogatory word these days :(
jdaviescoates
20-11-2003, 12:12
Originally posted by Spud Murphy III
The Phone Co-op looks good (from the link on your site).
The Phone Coop (http://www.thephone.coop/receive.htm?name=Agent_328&name2=index.html) is good.
A question (NOT a dig, just an observation and honest wonder): why is urban75 hosted with a standard corporate company?
Rather than someone like the UK Free Software Network (http://www.ukfsn.org/) ?
Peace,
Josef
isvicthere?
20-11-2003, 14:32
Originally posted by han
I don't know what the dictionary definition of a 'hippy' is
The term "hippie" was first used in a San Francisco local newspaper (forgotten the title) in September 1965. It was a deliberate variation on the term "hipster" (thought to be coined by Norman Mailer) to describe the then very unconventional bohemian types who had formed a community in the city's Haight-Ashbury district. The term did not become widely used until about a year or so later.
Not very chilled out here.
Read Steve indigenou post with interest(leaving aside the rest of it).In many "alternative" type organisations organisation and going "mainstream" is a source of conflict.I from my own experience in housing understand what Steve says about the "tyranny of structurelessness".Organisation in the more traditional sense can lead to greater transparancy and internal democracy.
It seems to me that Synergy are attempting to do something positive-even if its not my thing.Im glad the Council /Arts Council are giving them a chance with funding.
Ten pounds may seem a lot-but its not much more than a cinema ticket in London now.
William of Walworth
20-11-2003, 17:25
Originally posted by han
I don't know what the dictionary definition of a 'hippy' is, but I thought it was about being open, into not hurting things, and generally being a peaceful person. You certainly don't have to be into chakras and psychedelic trance, dear William, do you?! I'd certainly strike myself of the hippy register if so ;)
It always seems to be used as a derogatory word these days :(
I know, and that's a shame :(
I see myself as a straightforward festie-going hippy meself, minus the chakra realignment stuff. Also, I'm neither a committed fan nor a committed hater of trance -- can take it or leave it.
:)
bring on the revolution my children!!
then you can all sit about and bicker about whether you're hippies, capitalists or chakra obsessed trance merchants all you want.
organising a piss up in a brewery anyone?
Hippy or otherwise, BFP and the tea n flapjack stall has been brilliant at the protests over the last few days. ;) :cool:
Unbowedphoenix
21-11-2003, 13:39
I know nothing about Cooltan but I prefer Kate Hoey to Shane Collins.
Mrs Magpie
21-11-2003, 13:44
I'd rather shag Shane Collins* than Kate Hoey......and Shane Collins has never ever lost my important original documents either.......
*although I very much doubt he'd want to shag me........dunno about Kate, but I'd definitely turn her down (gently and nicely, of course).
William of Walworth
21-11-2003, 14:17
Originally posted by Unbowedphoenix
I know nothing about Cooltan but I prefer Kate Hoey to Shane Collins.
Yer a weirdo mate ... :confused:
What do you mean?
Mrs Magpie
21-11-2003, 14:43
Maybe he's trying to say he's a red-blooded heterosexual despite appearances (I mean the red-blood, not the hetereosexuality). No offence meant, but you are rather pale and wan, aren't you.........
Originally posted by Unbowedphoenix
I know nothing about Cooltan but I prefer Kate Hoey to Shane Collins. Why?
What the fuck has she ever done for Brixton? In fact, when has she ever been in Brixton?
Anyone who gets to a position of some notoriety has their detractors, but in my experience Shane Collins has always been kind and honest.
Whether you agree with his politics or not, he is very committed to them and really puts in alot of work. Nobody's perfect.
He also lives here.
Kate Hoey, on the other hand, is an idiot . She rarely comes down this way and you only hear of her when she jumps on somebody else's Brixton bandwagon. Clueless.
Unbowedphoenix
21-11-2003, 16:01
1) Her name contains fewer asterisks.
2) She's not a voluntary doleite who expects the taxpayer to fund her political activity willy-nilly.
3) She's on record as telling the Government to take a tougher line on Sinn Fein
www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4244640-103588,00.html
"2) She's not a voluntary doleite who expects the taxpayer to fund her political activity willy-nilly."
A somewhat conventional viewpoint. There's no doubt Shane does alot of good things for the Greens, the legalisation of cannabis (including a major part in running a great festival day) and other community stuff.
How he is "paid" and whether he "works" in the strict sense doesn't matter. He could just sit around. He doesn't. I'd say he's a great investment for the taxpayer. And isn't Kate Hoey paid by taxes as an MP... or whatever it is she is supposed to be?
Listen tho, I'm not sure this isn't getting too personal. Shall we just agree to disagree on Collins?
Unbowedphoenix
21-11-2003, 19:40
Fair enough. Good moderating if I may say so.:p
Thanks for that link, unbowedphoenix. Another reason not to vote for her.
Dubversion
22-11-2003, 00:32
Originally posted by han
I don't know what the dictionary definition of a 'hippy' is, ..............
It always seems to be used as a derogatory word these days :(
you say that as if you think it's a bad thing... :confused:
;)
Originally posted by pooka
Thanks for that link, unbowedphoenix. Another reason not to vote for her. I see that Kate doesn't mind stooping down low into Daily Mail stereotype-speak too:
"We claim to be tough on crime but demoralise the RUC at the behest of the paramilitaries. Would we dream of making the Metropolitan police accommodate the yardies?"
Has anyone - ever- seen Kate "the people of Brixton want zero tolerance" Hoey in Brixton?
This (http://briandeer.com/kate-hoey.htm), from the Sunday Times 10 years ago, makes interesting reading. A member of Sparticus advocating leg waxing on the rates indeed!
Streathamite
24-11-2003, 13:11
If I live in vauxhall constituency next time, I would break a Lifetime's commitment, and vote against labour and for Collins. As an MP, she's LOUSY.
And, mayhap, <wrenches thread back on-topic> we should give Synergy the benefit of the doubt?
steve indigenou
25-11-2003, 19:15
I have to say I agree with some of what is being said about all the pseduo-mystical rhetoric that surrounds trance parties. It's a bit of a shame that people get carried away when they think that rhetoric is a subtitute for substance as there is some real substance out there about how dance culture can facilitate a process of spiritual discovery. It's also a shame that Chakras get themselves a bad name by being overused as, of course, they originate in traditional chinese medicine, a body of knowledge that is thousands of years old.
Anyway, it's all a matter of taste really, and I can understand that for some the underground experience at Cooltan was a little more 'real' than that of an overground event such as Synergy. I too get a little frustrated with the pre-occupation with all things spiritual of some of my friends and colleagues, which is why Synergy is a deliberate effort to try and re-politicise the scene after years of stagnation.
Let's just state it for the record once again. Synergy does not seek to be Cooltan revisited, and has never claimed to. As Josef readily amits, it was mistake for him to say this and we all hope that his apology can be accepted. Synergy does seek to take inspiration from Cooltan - it's use of artistic media to communicate social and political messages, but do so in a way that engages the support of the mainstream, not alienate itself from it. It also seeks to learn important lessons from Cooltan and other related projects (Megaetripolis, the Warp etc).
This is where the alleged 'defmation' comes in. As someone rightly observed, having a decent amount of structure and organisation comes in very handy when dealing with charismatic yet at times unscrupulous individuals who have a tendency to try and dominate groups. For Shane Collins read Fraser Clark. This was the only reason why this was mentioned, and is one way in which Synergy will definitely NOT be Cooltan revisited or Ecotrip, Megatripolis, Return to the Source, the Warp revisited either.
Incidentally, in the wider activist circles, Shane has a very bad reputation for domineering behaviour. Which is why most people who work with him don't do so for long, as they end up feeling exploited and used. This is a repeated feature of the reports I have about Cooltan and were confirmed through my experiences with him in Ecotrip. Yes, he's ripped me off (more than once) and Synergy is, to a certain, extent, inspired by his dodgy and corrupt methods to implement a more ethical and sustainable alternative.
I think those arguing against Synergy are tearing apart a straw man very conveniently put up by Josef, rather than addressing the real issues. For people living in the Underground, £10 or £15 may be a lot, but it's not much given the price of a pint, a packet of cigs, an eighth of Skunk or whatever else people use to amuse themselves.
So maybe the time has come to suggest that Hatboy, Mike Slocombe and others might like to be on the guest-list for the next Synergy, which will be on Saturday Dec 13th. Then you can see for yourselves what it's like. Of course, it's not just trance, but a gallery hosted by the 491 Gallery, Hubble Hubble with the Turkish/Moroccan break-beats, a Conscious Cinema, a Healing-Chill (cue predictable contempt) and more besides.
steve@thesynergyproject.org
ps
"What a fantastic night. What incredible decor; the amount of effort they put in rigging the main room alone was breathtaking. Great visuals, great music, great crowd, wonderful chillout spaces with magic carpets, and just so heartwarming going to an event where the promoters really care about their party rather than making a fast buck. I rarely have to pay to go to parties nowadays as I'm usually crewing in some capacity, but I paid my £15 for this and it was worth every flipping penny. I heard so many different live acts in the chill room that I'd never normally listen to, and fab things like the violinist playing over psytrance that were so different and exciting."
feedback about the last Synergy Project party on
http://www.psy-trance.co.uk/psyforum2003/index.php?showtopic=4130
The point is that £15 is actually really CHEAP for the massive production we put on, which is about 5 times what people get at parties charing as much if not more. As you will see if, and I mean if, you come along and put your opinions to the test.
Originally posted by steve indigenou
Incidentally, in the wider activist circles, Shane has a very bad reputation for domineering behaviour. Which is why most people who work with him don't do so for long, as they end up feeling exploited and used. This is a repeated feature of the reports I have about Cooltan and were confirmed through my experiences with him in Ecotrip. Yes, he's ripped me off (more than once) and Synergy is, to a certain, extent, inspired by his dodgy and corrupt methods to implement a more ethical and sustainable alternative. You know, the longer you continue to publicly slag off someone who doesn't even post here (and therefore doesn't have the right to reply), the less respect I have for you.
Why do you keep going on and on about someone that has zero relevance to the vast majority of posters here? Cooltan happened years ago, so why are you still beefing about it? (Not that you were even involved in Cooltan, of course)
The truth is that it makes you and your club seem rather unpleasant, bitter, grudge-holding kinda folk.
squeegee
25-11-2003, 21:33
Only recently joined this board, and just by luck come across this thread. First of all, from the few posts (samba thread protest/direct action) you may surmise I am a hippy (slaphead one so there)
Just wanted to say that I have never been to a party which was so spot on in every aspect as Synergy on Nov 15th was.
Now I'm not part of any hippy crowd. In fact most of my friends wouldn't be caught dead in anything which had even the merest whiff of jostick. So I never get to go to the kind of rave that I remember from me yoonger days, eh lad (that's when Es were really good :)
No seriously, the great thing about those late-eighties, early nineties raves was the communal feeling. The way people from all walks of life were willing to talk to each other and just have a good time. And the belief that things were changing (same time as end of cold war etc - then daddy Bush came along, Criminal Justice Bill, and though parties continued it became more about coked up geezers and supertstar djs)
For years I kinda gave up clubbing, and the few I went to would be brands of techno which just lacked something, but I'd go along and my mates would wonder why I wasn't enjoying it But not being into all the cliquiness of styles etc, i just wanted to get back to that music that made inspired me to dance in shamanic mode (that would be psy-trance, then I suppose, but love my dub and, of course eastern spiritual stuff, tabla + flute anyone?) so recently I've been doing a bit of club hunting by getting flyers from shops around Camden and checking them out (on my own, a bit saddo you may think, but there you go)
A few weeks ago I almost gave up on finding a club or gathering which somehow would harness the politicisation of the post-911 youth, and all the mystical stuff i was into. I went to a squat rave, which had the psy-trance and the spiritual stuff on the flyer kinda tagged on, but turned out it was all just put there for effect with no real idea (it was a squat party after all, so shouldn't be too harsh)
So I took one last try when I read the flyer for synergy (had wanted to go in may and missed it so made my way down to London bridge after a night out with friends who didn't fancy the night cos they thought £15 was too expensive.
Worth every penny I tell you. I got there and instantly i walked in i knew I'd come home! No lie that's what I kept saying to myself. I could go on about the live bands, the decor, the natural foodstalls, the art and literature and environmental projects laid out for all to see - and espesh the psy-trance bear pit, complete with shamanic dancer on stage twirling ultra-violet wand!
But honestly the best bit was that vibe, with everyone smiling, and there in the spirit to which I think the organisers intended. Definitely down there on Dec 15th.
Steve, well done. What with the samba players and the non-violent activists and the shamans who understand how close we are to evolving this world of war and hatred into one of peace and harmony, this event is going places...
Om Shanti
squeegee:D
Steve said:
"Incidentally, in the wider activist circles, Shane has a very bad reputation for domineering behaviour. Which is why most people who work with him don't do so for long, as they end up feeling exploited and used. This is a repeated feature of the reports I have about Cooltan and were confirmed through my experiences with him in Ecotrip."
I think this is exagerated. I like Shane alot. But I sort of know what you mean. I think he delegates things in a slightly sneaky way sometimes in an attempt to make the job more attractive to you. Not in a big-deal dishonest way, and probably trying to motivate too, but slightly misleading. I'd prefer if he was directly straight.
If you're reading this Shane, it's only what I've said to your face and it's not a big deal to me, but it might explain why Steve says people feel like he says they do, above. You are also a kind and generous person. And very committed to some of briliant things as well. :)
Originally posted by squeegee
No seriously, the great thing about those late-eighties, early nineties raves was the communal feeling. The way people from all walks of life were willing to talk to each other and just have a good time. And the belief that things were changing (same time as end of cold war etc - then daddy Bush came along, Criminal Justice Bill, and though parties continued it became more about coked up geezers and supertstar djs)
I agree. The early 90's was a very special time for me. But I could do without the cod-mysticism, I find it nauseating.
And psy-trance is rubbish. :p ;)
sam/phallocrat
26-11-2003, 00:26
Originally posted by steve indigenou
"What a fantastic night. What incredible decor; the amount of effort they put in rigging the main room alone was breathtaking. Great visuals, great music, great crowd, wonderful chillout spaces with magic carpets, and just so heartwarming going to an event where the promoters really care about their party rather than making a fast buck. I rarely have to pay to go to parties nowadays as I'm usually crewing in some capacity, but I paid my £15 for this and it was worth every flipping penny. I heard so many different live acts in the chill room that I'd never normally listen to, and fab things like the violinist playing over psytrance that were so different and exciting."
feedback about the last Synergy Project party on
http://www.psy-trance.co.uk/psyforum2003/index.php?showtopic=4130
The point is that £15 is actually really CHEAP for the massive production we put on, which is about 5 times what people get at parties charing as much if not more. As you will see if, and I mean if, you come along and put your opinions to the test.
Synergy is, no matter what anyone (none of whom have been to it, oddly enough) says about it, a fucking good party - end of. And I happen to believe that as an organisation it genuinely has the capability to break out of the 'psychedelic ghetto' and into what is generally termed the mainstream. At the moment the seeds and the financial backing are there, so hopefully the project will evolve and progress into a Good Thing, like.
The debate that seems to be raging on here is missing most of the important points being made, and instead is focusing on the irrelevancies (and personal attacks/jibes) of the argument. Bad points have been made and unnecessarily incisive jabs have been directed at those (apparently) unable to defend themselves; however the attention that some have been giving to these issues belies an apparent keeness to ignore the important points being made.
After all, it's just a bunch of hippies putting on a few parties, isn't it?
saaam
(ps I'm not familiar with the internicine nature of local politics in Brixton so please forgive me if I have made any particularly erroneous errors :D )
meh
Streathamite
26-11-2003, 11:26
Originally posted by Unbowedphoenix
I know nothing about Cooltan but I prefer Kate Hoey to Shane Collins.
well, I've been doing a bit of reading recently about Shane recently (I already know MORE than enough about Hoey!) - and I wish I lived in brixton full-time, becuase he'd certainly get my vote. streets ahead of anyone else.
I think its worth pointing out that Steve didn't mention this Shane geezer by name at first, he was "outed" by someone else.
Also I think it takes some bottle to climb into this bearpit of highly personal attacks, remember none of us know him, yet he recieved an appalling level of slagging, started at a time when he did not post here. Sauce for the goose an all that.
Whatever anyones knowledge of Shane(I have never mat the man by the way) from the remarks here I gather he is a polititian. When have they ever been sacrosanct here?
I have never been to a Synergy party, but from what the unbiased who have say, I think it sounds pretty good- however as you all know I am a Flouro wearing aged Hippy type, so I suppose thats to be expected!!!!!:D
Whatever anyone says they still haven't opened their centre yet, isn't at all a bit early to judge?
Wouldn't it be better to wait and see?
I think that the response here is just the kind of cliquiness that puts the mainstream off, you know they have to know the life history of every "face" the "scene" has ever produced and trot out the accepted "party" line on them to be accepted. No wonder Ernesto sticks to the politics forums, I'm sure he knows the name of Unkle Joes teddy so feels safe to comment on the other "tribes" of the lefts' rituals and conventions.
If we think we provide some sort of alternative thinking to that of the Daily Mail we ought not to sound like "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" when replying to an honest attempt to do something worthwhile, whether you like the music, or not.
Originally posted by hipipol
Whatever anyones knowledge of Shane(I have never met the man by the way) from the remarks here I gather he is a polititian. When have they ever been sacrosanct here? If you think Shane is an archetypal politician, you're very much mistaken!
Anyway, he drinks in the Albert, so I'll introduce him to you next time you're both around. Or if I'm not around, look for a Tom Waits-alike!
ernestolynch
26-11-2003, 18:28
Originally posted by hipipol
No wonder Ernesto sticks to the politics forums, I'm sure he knows the name of Unkle Joes teddy so feels safe to comment on the other "tribes" of the lefts' rituals and conventions.
:confused: :(
It's Alphonse by the way. JV's teddy. ;)
steve indigenou
29-11-2003, 16:15
Mike,
You reading the comments from the impartial people ?
You able to entertain the possibility that maybe you prejudged us ?
OK, you may not like the fact that I slag Shane off, but you dish it out as well don't you ? And why should Shane be immune from criticism ? As the self-style 'leader' of the scene, and (as he keeps reminding us) 'London Assembly Candidate', he's in the public domain and should not expect a free ride.
Particularly when there are lessons to be learned from his mistakes, even for him too.
Wait and see, Mike, wait and see. One of the reasons why I am actually quite grateful for the abuse you dish out is that it just reinforces my conviction that our approach is the right one.
So, you gonna come on the 15th ? :)
Steve
Originally posted by steve indigenou
OK, you may not like the fact that I slag Shane off, but you dish it out as well don't you ?
Wait and see, Mike, wait and see. One of the reasons why I am actually quite grateful for the abuse you dish out is that it just reinforces my conviction that our approach is the right one.
So, you gonna come on the 15th ? You really do seem to want a fight, don't you?
For the record, I've never slagged off your parties because I've no reason to - I've never been to one.
I doubt if it would float my boat though, because I've always found all that crystal fiddling, shamanic spouting, flame rekindling, Divine Tara chanting stuff utterly, utterly tedious, but - hey! - each to their own, eh?
I doubt if you see the glaring mismatch between the touchy-feely hippy chakra stuff on your 'mission statement' and how you've acted here, but your attitude has left me with serious doubts about your 'mission'.
For all your talk of 'cooperation', 'synergy' and 'common goals', you've managed to piss off several people here and spend the greater part of your time viciously defaming someone who doesn't even post here.
And inbetween that, you have a go at me, when I'm the guy giving you free exposure for your event!
I've no idea what your problem with Shane is - and it's got absolutely fuck all to do with me - but your persistent attacks are unpleasant and leave a bad taste in the mouth.
Oh, and here's some free advice: your website is a bit of a disaster for anyone with accessibility issues, and is poorly designed for search engines. Stick in a text only navigation system, add a keyword loaded introduction message and include a text only site map, and your site should become far easier to find and to navigate.
Good luck with your party and your project.
I won't be going, thanks.
We're prolly going on the 13th.
Steve, you could promote what your new project is all about and make whatever general points you need to make about "failures of the past" without bringing personal bitch-fighting into it. I happen to know that there is a lot more to your issues with Shane than you have mentioned here. If you have things to say about someone say them to their face, don't talk about them behind their back, where they don't have the chance to reply to accusations, and where some of their friends and colleagues etc have to sit there listening to a load of vindictive and poisonous stuff. What the hell are we meant to do? I don't want to get involved but I feel like I want to stick up for the guy- but I'm not even going to grace all the mudslinging with any kind of response. Moreover some of your comments reflect adversely on a lot more people than just one person.
You have a lot more going for you, and you are bigger than that - you really don't need to knock people and slag other people off to make yourself look better. If you personally, after all this time, have decided that you don't want to work with Shane anymore then fine - don't get involved with him. But don't let your *personal* issues and emotions about him adversely effect your relationships with other people - leave vendettas alone will ya!
Good luck with Synergy.
steve indigenou
29-11-2003, 18:32
Thanks for the tone of your post TJ, but don't be fooled.
yes, I have personal reasons for my antipathy to Shane, but don't let him fool you into thinking that this is the only source. The events of which you are now aware are merely another example of his methods - to hijack someone else's energy and claim it for is own.
Check out Jonny Void's post on the Cannabis thread and follow up the invitation for more info. You'll see I am not alone in my beliefs.
Maybe I waste my energy in highlighting the man's corrupt ways, but when someone who has experienced exactly what I have experienced, professionally not personally, posts in support of what I am saying, then that reinforces my will to continue on this mission.
Steve
Fine, you've said it now.
Thread closed.
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