The Synergy Project (CoolTan revisited) [Archive]

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 21:52

sorry to be the curmudgeon, but it doesn't seem to be much to do with cool tan.

maybe some of the old crew are involved, but this just seems like a club promotion crew with a rather scary hippy sideline (conscious clubbing).

having someone doing massage, some political leaflets and the odd juggler doesn't make it cooltan. it doesn't appear to be a community space. it appears to be a Frazer Clarke-esque nightclub venture.

which i don't have a problem with per se*, but flogging it under some spurious Cooltan branding leaves a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth to be honest.

i'm entirely happy to be proved wrong about this, but cooltan was very important in my life and i'd hate to see it used as a fucking USP.

* of course, this isn't true. i hate hippies and i hate this kind of clubbing, but that's not what i meant ;)

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 21:54

tickets on the door are £15 and £13 in advance with all
good ticket vendors…

right. fifteen quid? very fucking cooltan.

tell me what makes this thread anything other than spam?

opportunism like this stinks.

:mad:

bristle-krs

17-11-2003, 22:01

Consultancy
With a management team with many years experience working in the progressive cultural sector and with a corresponding range of management and administrative skills, Synergy advises a wide variety of clients about cultural edutainment projects ranging from start up projects to local authorities and other established institutions.

from the mission statement

"cultural edutainment"

:eek:

editor

17-11-2003, 22:03

Hmm. I'm having trouble matching your 'mission statement' with a £15 fucking quid admission fee.

Cooltan's parties helped fund campaign groups.

Where's all your money going?

And who exactly is involved from the original Cooltan?

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:03

the more i read, the angrier i get.

it's just a heap of yippie fucking buzzwords, self-absorbed hippy bullshit and a thin (oh so thin) veneer of 'community'.

the Ministry had playstations, 'synergy' (how very 1989) gives us some chai and a backdrop with a picture of george bush on it.

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:05

like i said, people want clubs like this and that's fine (as long as i don't have to go to them).

but cooltan was important, fantastic and for the community in all sorts of ways.

this is just a fucking club.

do the club, good luck to you, but if you persist in using cooltan as an imprimatur of credibility and worth i reserve my right to loathe you.

editor

17-11-2003, 22:10

What the fuck does this mean:

Moving beyond the limitations of protest politics, the project seeks to work in partnership with established authorities to empower and develop individuals and communities to solve contemporary social problems by adopting ethical and sustainable patterns of material and cultural production and consumption and by promoting constructive alternatives to increasingly discredited institutions, ideologies and technologies.

What are these mysterious 'limitations of protest politics' and how will a £15 ticket for a night of "Dr Yakkers - the five rhythms ecstasy technician" prove a better alternative?

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:13

Originally posted by editor
"Dr Yakkers - the five rhythms ecstasy technician"

i don't know who he is but i feel an urge to hit him.

:)

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:16

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Hello,

I just read through the CoolTan history in the Brixton pages and thought that they provided a perfect preamble to a load of spam about another spin on the old Warp/Megatripolis thing.

Just thought I'd let you know (in case we don't sell enough tickets), that some of the people who went to cool tan once are opening a commercial nightclub in somewhere that was a squat once.!

we've got a lease and bills have to be paid, but we'll obviously be keeping the change out of the £15 ticket price.

The building is opposite Bar Lorca and will be firebombed by any righthinking ex cooltanner early in the new year.
For further details check out http://www.cashfromchakras.org

cash,

Josef.

editor

17-11-2003, 22:22

Oh ya. Their superstar DJ-frequented venue is just soooooo like "Cooltan", y'know.

The Brixton tribal spirit is like, really, evoked with their 3,000 capacity state-of-the-art laser and light show and the pagan festival vibe seems, like, soooo real when you're drinking in London's largest licensed nightclub.

http://www.seonelondon.com

the B

17-11-2003, 22:23

Sounds like a load of tosh to me.

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:29

i see you lurking, josef.

care to defend yourself?

i'm curious..

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:35

.. tum te tum..

must be formulating an answer which scotches once and for all our nasty cynical implications that this is opportunist shit.

by the way, i run a club. very successful one too.

we'd probably make a fucking killing if we charged.

but we don't cos we're nice like that

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:45

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/rendfaq/CLOCK.GIF

dwen

17-11-2003, 22:49

is it sad of me to admit that i spent ages looking at that watch to see if it would change from 3 o clock?:o

edited to say that i'm not too sad seeing as it was only posted 4 minutes ago

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:50

editor - how long does this get to stay up without any defence from the poster? cos if it ain't cooltan then it must be spam...

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:50

Originally posted by dwen
is it sad of me to admit that i spent ages looking at that watch to see if it would change from 3 o clock?:o
[/SIZE]

ages?

surely no more than a minute ;)

Blagsta

17-11-2003, 22:53

To be honest, I didn't really look at the website. But looking at it now, it looks like a load of typical psy-trance Californian hip capitalist nonsense. And at £15, you can stick it.

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:55

it's spam in a tie-dyed tshirt.

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 22:56

your lack of a response suggests you don't have one, josef..

jdaviescoates

17-11-2003, 22:56

Hello everyone,

Dubversion: patience, I'm a slow writer and trying (pretty unsuccessfully) to do lots of things at once.

Firstly, I've currently got very little to do with Synergy, and must admit that I wasn't too impressed by their site either.

However, since I went to one of their meetings at Green Angels I've been more interested and getting more involved.

As far as I can tell they are a good bunch of genuine people (491 gallery, Randon Artists etc), and from what I can remember they mentioned that they grew out of Ecotrip and Cooltan etc. I guess it could've been total bullshit, but I don't think so. And I'm not a mug.

Basically, I read about Cooltan on u75 (like I said) and thought of synergy, so I thought I would contribute something by clicking the feedback button. It had *nothing* to do with cash. If it had been about promoting their club night (which, AFAIK, is moving from the SE1 club as soon as the Brixton space is open) I probably would've posted something before the weekend since it was on saturday.

Seems that the wiki ethics of "assume good faith" and "trust first" haven't yet reached this board (guess you must've had too much "opportuntist shit").

Shame, coz pretty much everything else about u75 is fucking excellent. :)

Opportunism: please note my signature and buy a book for christmas.

Peace,

Josef.

Blagsta

17-11-2003, 22:58

I think that chakra's, psy-trance and £15 to get in just raises a few hackles round here.

bristle-krs

17-11-2003, 22:59

abusing the board is possibly not the best strategy, josef...

:rolleyes:

jdaviescoates

17-11-2003, 22:59

Mildly ammusing too.

BTW, this is spam (my sig doesn't seem to appear)

http://www.uniteddiversity.com

Peace,

Josef

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 23:02

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Seems that the wiki ethics of "assume good faith" and "trust first" haven't yet reached this board (guess you must've had too much "opportuntist shit").

sorry, but that doesn't wash.

people DID show good faith and trusted, the positive responses you got initially showed people here have strong feelings about cooltan and would be only too happy to see something like it again.

those very same strong feelings are why i now feel something brilliant is being betrayed.

it's a big money club night. fine. there are lots, and if this one has any positive aspects then that makes it better than the ministry at least.

but your title alone - Cooltan Revisited - is at best disingenous, at worst an opportunist lie.

if people involved in cooltan are involved in this, that as far as i can see is the only connection it has with it.

and i think it rather ignoble to flog their club on the back of something of an entirely different order.

As far as I can tell they are a good bunch of genuine people

fine. i've heard good things about 491. something like that would be good for brixton, i reckon.

but NOT at fifteen quid a head and NOT by pretending to be something it's not.

that will merely serve to get people's backs up and may alienate a large swathe of the people you might have hoped to get through the fractal-painted doors.

jdaviescoates

17-11-2003, 23:06

Originally posted by bristle-krs
abusing the board is possibly not the best strategy, josef...

:rolleyes:

No abuse was made by me, but I'm glad to see that people are so passionate about Cooltan. Must've been very good. Never made it.

Shame to see people are so quick to judge before they've even met or spoken to anyone actually involved.

Any passionate criticism about my site (see my previous message) is welcomed and wanted.

Peace,

Josef.

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 23:11

well we read your post, then read the website (what else could we do to form a judgement?) and found some rather glaring discrepancies and inconsistencies.

why do i need to speak to someone involved in synergy to suspect that charging 15 quid isn't a very cooltan thing to do.

if it's your contention that we're judging it unfairly, i put it to you that this is entirely your doing.

if you hadn't made the cooltan comparison, perhaps it would have been judged on its own merits (ie i'd have thought it was bollocks, like blagsta, perhaps some of the hippies on here might have liked it).

it was YOUR comparison which planted the cooltan idea in our mind, so if we judged it on that basis, who's fucking fault is that.

and trying to sidestep it into some flannel about your own site isn't the point, surely?

jdaviescoates

17-11-2003, 23:13

exactly what Cooltan people have to do with it and exactly what the plans for the new building are.

I will e-mail the person I know at synergy to that effect.

I will point him to this thread, but if he doesn't reply himself, I'll let you know what reply I get.

Josef.

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 23:15

that would be a decent thing to do,

like i say, if it serves all sorts of other function besides overpriced trance nights (and those trance nights pay the bills to allow all sorts of other social space stuff to happen) then hmm.. it's not so bad.

do you not accept, then, that my annoyance is justified, in that you made a comparison without ACTUALLY knowing the extent of anyone cooltan-related's involvement or their plans?

jdaviescoates

17-11-2003, 23:32

Originally posted by Dubversion
that would be a decent thing to do,

like i say, if it serves all sorts of other function besides overpriced trance nights (and those trance nights pay the bills to allow all sorts of other social space stuff to happen) then hmm.. it's not so bad.

do you not accept, then, that my annoyance is justified, in that you made a comparison without ACTUALLY knowing the extent of anyone cooltan-related's involvement or their plans?

That's why I'll do it, becuase I'm a decent person. :)

I am quite certain that the lots of good social space stuff will happen in their space in Brixton. :)

I accept your annoyance, yes, but not your accusations or the unfriendly attitude. :(

While I don't know the full extent of their plans or exactly what their involvement with Cooltan was, I do know that they want to try re-create the magic of spaces like Cooltan and that at least some of them were involved with it.

More to the point, why is it OK to assume they've got nothing to do with it and are total rubbish why *you* don't ACTUALLY know? :confused:

Peace,

Josef.

editor

17-11-2003, 23:36

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
More to the point, why is it OK to assume they've got nothing to do with it and are total rubbish why *you* don't ACTUALLY know? :confused:
. I used to be involved with Cooltan (lived across the road, did a lot of their fliers, t-shirt, still know a lot of the people involved) and I don't recognise anyone from the other site.

But the truth is simply this: if they're hosting parties in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with a "state of the art laser system", it doesn't matter how many chakras are shuffling their kosmic karmas to Dr Yakkers: at £15 a head it'll have fuck all to do with Cooltan's vibe

Dubversion

17-11-2003, 23:37

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
I accept your annoyance, yes, but not your accusations or the unfriendly attitude. :(

the unfriendly attitude is because spam is contrary to what U75 is about, and until you prove otherwise, the synergy project is a commercial entity getting publicity for free on these boards.

there are strong rules about this. it also helps if someone is a regular poster, it smells less spammy then.

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
More to the point, why is it OK to assume they've got nothing to do with it and are total rubbish why *you* don't ACTUALLY know? :confused:

i can't even understand the second part of your sentence, but in response to the first part:

there is NOTHINg on that website which seems familiar to me as something in the same vein as Cooltan.
it SEEMS to be a very expensive commercial enterprise, a club night with some community aspects, not a community space that puts on parties.

i didn't at any point assume that people from cooltan weren't involved, i just stated that this doesn't immediately infer upon any of their subsequent projects a legitimacy above and beyond what they're seeking to do here.

jdaviescoates

18-11-2003, 00:02

Originally posted by Dubversion
the unfriendly attitude is because spam is contrary to what U75 is about, and until you prove otherwise, the synergy project is a commercial entity getting publicity for free on these boards.

there are strong rules about this. it also helps if someone is a regular poster, it smells less spammy then.

Fair enough, spam sucks. Remind me to get a regular poster to post any links for me in the future ;) (although I've noticed links to restaurants and what have you in response to 'any good thai's' etc. that have gone un-noticed. Guess that's coz they didn't mention Cooltan). Also, my own opinion is that a 100% non-commercial rule is non-optimal. Afterall, there are lots of social enterprises with wholly agreable goals that could do with some support from urbanites if they are to compete with big bad mutlinationals.

Originally posted by Dubversion
i can't even understand the second part of your sentence, but in response to the first part:

there is NOTHINg on that website which seems familiar to me as something in the same vein as Cooltan.
it SEEMS to be a very expensive commercial enterprise, a club night with some community aspects, not a community space that puts on parties.

The second part makes sense if you change the why to a when.

That nights at SE1 are a bit pricey, agreed. I assume that once their space is open, and there is no hire fee, that things will change.

They clearly need more stuff about their space - news of which is why I originally checked them out - on their site (something I'd been meaning to tell them anyway - and will defo do so in my e-mail to them).

Originally posted by Dubversion
i didn't at any point assume that people from cooltan weren't involved, i just stated that this doesn't immediately infer upon any of their subsequent projects a legitimacy above and beyond what they're seeking to do here.

Fair enough. Apologies for my lack of accuracy.

Good night,

Josef.

jdaviescoates

18-11-2003, 00:10

Originally posted by editor
I used to be involved with Cooltan (lived across the road, did a lot of their fliers, t-shirt, still know a lot of the people involved) and I don't recognise anyone from the other site.

But the truth is simply this: if they're hosting parties in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with a "state of the art laser system", it doesn't matter how many chakras are shuffling their kosmic karmas to Dr Yakkers: at £15 a head it'll have fuck all to do with Cooltan's vibe

If that's your opinion, then fair enough. As an evil north-londoner, I had nothing to do with Cooltan, but I quite liked the vibe of the people I met at the synergy project meeting I went to.

I also like very much like the u75 vibe, but as it seems I not very welcome here, I'll fuck off for now.

Peace,

Josef.

grubby local

18-11-2003, 00:14

stick around.

jus that £15 does not equal doing it for the love. simple as.

gx

the B

18-11-2003, 01:10

Admittedly, the ? does not have to deal with rent related issues - but the door is never more than £4 (and that was for seeing 5 bands) - and usually more like £2.

£15 is taking the biscuit.

bristle-krs

18-11-2003, 04:46

...and eating it...

hatboy

18-11-2003, 08:39

Originally posted by Blagsta
To be honest, I didn't really look at the website. But looking at it now, it looks like a load of typical psy-trance Californian hip capitalist nonsense. And at £15, you can stick it.

So glad you said that. I didn't get far with the website either. I thought it was pretentious nonsense and then felt guilty.

I'm going to chuck this spam away later today. :)

Josef - by all means keep us informed about your project, but don't bullshit. Thankyou.

isvicthere?

18-11-2003, 10:57

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
That nights at SE1 are a bit pricey, agreed.

And that's not to mention the gestapo security, and a million and one other things totally contrary to the spirit of Cooltan.

jdaviescoates

18-11-2003, 11:57

Originally posted by hatboy
I'm going to chuck this spam away later today. :)

Josef - by all means keep us informed about your project, but don't bullshit. Thankyou.

Please leave this spam here until someone from synergy has a chance to reply for themselves.

Like I said, synergy is not my project, although having actually met and spoken to some of the people involved (unlike everyone else here) I don't think it is total capitalist shit at all. In fact, I think it is an important step towards greater long-term sustainability of community spaces like Cooltan and the growing network of Social Centres in London (http://www.londonarc.org/social_centre_network.html) . Please don't accuse me (a fucking lovely person, doing what I can to unite the world) of being a bullshitter. Fact is, no one here knows what their space is going to be like, since it hasn't even opened yet.

I agree with most of you that £15 is too much, but you do get much more than 5 bands - synergy is more like an indoor festival than a club night from what I can gather.

A quick glance at their flyer shows at least 11 live acts, plus 11 DJs, 9 dance acts, loads of visuals, the work of at least 6 artists in the gallery area, loads of alternative therapies, a fair trade cafe and the involvment of at least 13 NGOs.

It is also worth remembering that for a lot of 9-5ers in mainstream society any saturday night club that costs less than about £15 is looked down at as obviously being shit, and synergy's whole things is about "moving beyond underground protest towards an active enagement with mainstream society". This, to me, is a good thing. At the end of the day, Cooltan doesn't exist anymore, most people have never even heard of it, and most never will. Ther are plenty of 9-5ers who haven't even heard of u75!

I've never particularly liked big club nights myself (more into live music) and I've been arranging live music nights 'for love' for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, 'for love' doesn't buy any food, pay any bills, or recognise that many artists are trying to make a living by doing what they love (although personally I have always tried to pay the musicians who've played for me, even when loosing money on the night).

Obviously, a club night of this scale is not going to have the same charm and vibe as squat parties (that often combine the best aspects of house parties, live gigs and clubs), but I see nothing wrong in taking a load of money from 9-5ers who can afford it (and others who want to support it) in order to help raise money for, and fund numerous activities in, a new community space in Brixton.

I think all of you have been far too quick to judge the synergy project. They obviously need to radically change their website though, since it's clearly giving the wrong impression to many people who should perhaps be naturally aligned with their goals. Does anyone have any uselful suggestions?

Peace,

Josef.

Dubversion

18-11-2003, 12:53

josef, i'm afraid i think you're ducking and diving and trying to appeal to our cynicism ('make the 9-5ers pay for it'? - how many of us are 9-5ers i wonder?) and i think you're actually making things worse.

one thing this place clearly iSN'T going to be "is an important step towards greater long-term sustainability of community spaces like Cooltan and the growing network of Social Centres in London . "

jdaviescoates

18-11-2003, 13:26

Originally posted by Dubversion
josef, i'm afraid i think you're ducking and diving and trying to appeal to our cynicism ('make the 9-5ers pay for it'? - how many of us are 9-5ers i wonder?) and i think you're actually making things worse.

I not trying to appeal to anyone, just stating what I think. You think I'm making things worse. So be it. Seems you are stuck in your ways and enjoy putting potentially good things and people down. Good luck to you.

Originally posted by Dubversion
one thing this place clearly iSN'T going to be "is an important step towards greater long-term sustainability of community spaces like Cooltan and the growing network of Social Centres in London . "

That is not at all clear. You have read a bit of their website and made some sweeping conclusions about them based on very little information. I'll put money on the fact that the synergy project's space will be a very useful resource for the Brixton community and that it will last far longer than Cooltan did (regardless of how well they approximate what was, by definition - it not longer exists -, an unsustainable community resource centre).

It seems that you are one of the many people who want no part in anything that is even remotely commercial or mainstream. Frankly (if that is indeed the case), you're just living in denial since you (like the rest of us) are currently totally and utterly dependent on the capitalist system for the provision of your basic needs (albeit in a totally unsustainable, stupid and shit manner). If I am incorrent and you actually live in a self-build straw house with solar water heating, solar electricity, a windmill, rain water storage, grey water recycling, a composting toilet, and grow all your own organic food for sale at the local farmers market in Peckham, please accept my apologies in advance.

In my opinion it is a total waste of time and energy just going round telling capitalists (and those that engage with them) that they are no more than sell-out cunts (which seems to me what you are doing). That's not going to make them change, and if you annoy them enough they'll just shoot you (they have all the guns, money and power, afterall).

Peace, and best wishes with the People's Republic of Disco (might bring a couple of my favourite tunes along one night),

Josef.

han

18-11-2003, 13:44

*gosh*

hatboy

18-11-2003, 16:40

I've changed my mind and I'm leaving this up for now. Please see my post on the other "Synergy" thread.

Perhaps you all can try to come to a compromise position?

:)

jdaviescoates

18-11-2003, 16:51

Originally posted by hatboy
I've changed my mind and I'm leaving this up for now. Please see my post on the other "Synergy" thread.

Perhaps you all can try to come to a compromise position?

:)

Cheers hatboy :)

I've read and replied to your other post. I appreciate your understanding and bothering to go through and digest everything.

Hat's off to you!

Peace,

Josef.

Dubversion

18-11-2003, 17:15

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Seems you are stuck in your ways and enjoy putting potentially good things and people down.

you don't give up do you.

listen, I HAVE NO PROBLEM - OTHER THAN ONE OF PERSONAL TASTE, WHICH IS BESIDES THE POINT - WITH THIS PROJECT.

my problem was with the was it was being sold - by you, not them, it appears - as being cooltan related.

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
It seems that you are one of the many people who want no part in anything that is even remotely commercial or mainstream.... .... In my opinion it is a total waste of time and energy just going round telling capitalists (and those that engage with them) that they are no more than sell-out cunts (which seems to me what you are doing).

your capacity to miss the fucking point is almost Cecil B DeMille-esque in its grandeur.

nowhere in these posts do i oppose capitalism or capitalist ventures. read them again. i was MERELY opposing a capitalist venture using a non-capitalist venture for borrowed kudos.

which it seems they weren't doing. you were.

joesef - i think you fucked up. the indignation and attitude you and synergy have copped here ALL stem from the cooltan thing, not the project itself. so stop playing unecessary 'we're all capitalists really' cards that don't need playing, that was nobody's fucking point.

:rolleyes:

editor

18-11-2003, 23:10

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
I'll put money on the fact that the synergy project's space will be a very useful resource for the Brixton community and that it will last far longer than Cooltan did It may last longer, but I'll guarantee it won't make the same sort of impact on so many people's lives, nor will it politically inspire as many people or be as inclusive.

I'm already put off by all that cod-hippy, chakra-shaking, 'I've been to Goa', £15-quid-a-fucking-head, superstar-DJ bar bollocks.

jdaviescoates

18-11-2003, 23:30

Originally posted by editor
It may last longer, but I'll guarantee it won't make the same sort of impact on so many people's lives, nor will it politically inspire as many people or be as inclusive.

I'm already put off by all that cod-hippy, chakra-shaking, 'I've been to Goa', £15-quid-a-fucking-head, superstar-DJ bar bollocks.

Only time will tell how much impact it will have and how inclusive it will be.

BTW, what's a cod-hippy?

Peace,

Josef.

editor

18-11-2003, 23:40

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Only time will tell how much impact it will have and how inclusive it will be.

BTW, what's a cod-hippy?A grabbing, money spinning, chakra-chanting capitalist who charges £15 to get into an 'underground' event.

sam/phallocrat

19-11-2003, 00:05

Hmmm . . . went to a synergy project bash at SEOne and was quite a good party if I remember it, but the drama group presentation in the chillout about spericidally lubricated condoms being bad for vaginal walls was unexpected :eek: :D £15 is actually quite cheap for a multi-roomed, 10-6 party in a large legitimate venue (like fuck is it a 'superstar-DJ bar'), with the best production I think I've ever seen and a load of fucking good acts. £20-25 is a more realistic price methinks, looking at the other parties of that scale at that venue. I doubt very much that any of the promoters made any personal profit whatsoever, it's a collectively run ting with open accounting and cash going back to the NGOs etc.

Are they capitalist for charging £15 or are they capitalist just for charging in the first place?

ps keep up the righteous indignation people . . .

editor

19-11-2003, 00:12

Originally posted by sam/phallocrat
Are they capitalist for charging £15 or are they capitalist just for charging in the first place?
. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them charging whatever they like for a 'multi roomed experience' in the company of Dr Yakkers.

I do, however, have problems with them trading off the name of Cooltan which did not offer events in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with whooppee-doododah whizzbang state of the art lasers and burly uniformed security.

jdaviescoates

19-11-2003, 00:28

Originally posted by editor
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them charging whatever they like for a 'multi roomed experience' in the company of Dr Yakkers.

I do, however, have problems with them trading off the name of Cooltan which did not offer events in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with whooppee-doododah whizzbang state of the art lasers and burly uniformed security.

Ed, was it not you who said "FFS: will you lot just CHILL OUT"? :confused:

Besides, I think it has been pretty well established over on the 'Synergy and Cooltan' thread that no-one here has tried to do any 'trading off the name of Cooltan'.

I alone am guilty of composing the subject of this particular thread, and it was no more than an innocent mistake borne out of ignorance about both the synergy project and cooltan.

I have already apologised for all the confusion caused.

Personally, I can't understand your indignation of the project now that all this has been cleared up, but I'm guessing there's some personal politics going on that I'm unaware of.

All I ask is that you follow some of your own sound advice "Chill out and get along people!"

Peace,

Josef.

editor

19-11-2003, 00:34

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
All I ask is that you follow some of your own sound advice "Chill out and get along people!" Dude!
I reckon you need a session with Dr Yakkers!

:)

jdaviescoates

19-11-2003, 00:41

Originally posted by editor
Dude!
I reckon you need a session with Dr Yakkers!

:)

Who is this Dr Yakkers anyway?

piratetv

19-11-2003, 01:47

http://www.wacky-packs.com/smimages/hippy.jpg

isvicthere?

19-11-2003, 09:03

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
It is also worth remembering that for a lot of 9-5ers in mainstream society any saturday night club that costs less than about £15 is looked down at as obviously being shit, and synergy's whole things is about "moving beyond underground protest towards an active enagement with mainstream society". This, to me, is a good thing. At the end of the day, Cooltan doesn't exist anymore, most people have never even heard of it, and most never will. Ther are plenty of 9-5ers who haven't even heard of u75!

The pomposity and arrogance of the above beggars belief! What you are doing, or appear to be doing, echoes the "hip young capitalists" of the 60s who used the vocabulary of the "movement" ("moving beyond protest", vilifiying "breadheads" - which you now call "9 to 5ers" as uncool outsiders) while at the same time trying to charge £15 on the door. Which opens you to the charge ( at least prima facie) of hypocrisy.

FWIW I am one of those desperately unhip 9 to 5ers (well, part time anyway) you hold in such contempt and I WOULDN'T DREAM of going to something for £15 because to my unsophisticated senses, befuddled by my beast-of-burden-hood, such an entrance fee smacks of a big fat corporate rip off.

jdaviescoates

19-11-2003, 16:05

Originally posted by isvicthere?
The pomposity and arrogance of the above beggars belief! What you are doing, or appear to be doing, echoes the "hip young capitalists" of the 60s who used the vocabulary of the "movement" ("moving beyond protest", vilifiying "breadheads" - which you now call "9 to 5ers" as uncool outsiders) while at the same time trying to charge £15 on the door. Which opens you to the charge ( at least prima facie) of hypocrisy.

FWIW I am one of those desperately unhip 9 to 5ers (well, part time anyway) you hold in such contempt and I WOULDN'T DREAM of going to something for £15 because to my unsophisticated senses, befuddled by my beast-of-burden-hood, such an entrance fee smacks of a big fat corporate rip off.

Seems you have choosen to ignore the comments of the only person who has actaully been to a synergy event:

£15 is actually quite cheap for a multi-roomed, 10-6 party in a large legitimate venue (like fuck is it a 'superstar-DJ bar'), with the best production I think I've ever seen and a load of fucking good acts. £20-25 is a more realistic price methinks, looking at the other parties of that scale at that venue. I doubt very much that any of the promoters made any personal profit whatsoever, it's a collectively run ting with open accounting and cash going back to the NGOs etc.

Apologies if you think I'm pompous and arrogant. For 9-5ers, just read people - since that's what most people are. However, the constant "you're an evil corporate" accusatory nature of people on this list astounds me. Aren't we all trying to work for a better world? And if you're not, why not?

Besides, how many people that are complaining about the £15 door charge still shop at supermarkets and drive their oil-guzzling cars to work etc.?

Like I've mentioned before, we are all totally and utterly dependent on big corporates for the provision of our basic needs, and we implicitly support them every day as we go about buying the things we need. The vast majority of money that people spend everyday goes straight into the pockets of big bad corporates. The £15 spent at a Synergy event, on the other hand, goes directly to support a Brixton based social enterprise and a whole arrray of worthy NGOs.

If you still can't see that neither the synergy project, nor http://www.uniteddiversity.com (my own project) are not big bad corporates, then either you're not looking very hard, or you're blind.

If you would like to know how you can reduce your implicit support for the bad guys, please visit http://www.uniteddiversity.com/12steps and read the excellent book 'The Good Shopping Guide' - see http://www.thegoodshoppingguide.co.uk but note that you can get it cheap on my site.

Peace,

Josef.

editor

19-11-2003, 16:14

Maybe I need to spend more time hanging out with Dr Yakkers and chant "OM TARA TU TARE TURE SVAHA" a bit more, but the following appears to make no real-world sense to me at all
Synergy:

The interaction or cooperation of agents, organisations etc to produce a new or enhanced effect compared to their separate effects!

Synergy is an environmental and cultural information network, creating spaces where those working on the cutting edge of cultural and social expression combine, using a variety of media, to conceive a place where creative energies are liberated and the spiritual dimension of our lives is unveiled. Could someone explain it to me please?

Could you name some people on the "cutting edge of cultural and social expression" so I know what they look like?

Thanks

jdaviescoates

19-11-2003, 16:32

Originally posted by editor
Maybe I need to spend more time hanging out with Dr Yakkers and chant "OM TARA TU TARE TURE SVAHA" a bit more, but the following appears to make no real-world sense to me at all
Could someone explain it to me please?

Could you name some people on the "cutting edge of cultural and social expression" so I know what they look like?

Thanks

Mike Slocombe, take a look in the mirror. :)

Top dog at urban75 qualifies you in my book as someone on the "cutting edge of cultural and social expression" (however much I am in dismay at the inability of urbanites to get along with eachother and to assume good faith).

Allow me to be a righteous pompous twat, but I think you sir could do with some of hatboy's good ole 'self-moderation'.

It genuinely saddens me to see like-minded people pull eachother down when, to me at least, they should so blatantly be supporting one another.

Peace,

Josef.

bristle-krs

19-11-2003, 16:46

:eek:

jdc, do you not see how casually offensive you are being?

editor

19-11-2003, 16:51

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Allow me to be a righteous pompous twat, but I think you sir could do with some of hatboy's good ole 'self-moderation'.In what sense?

Do you have a problem with me expressing my honest opinion here?

What needs 'self-moderating'?

steve indigenou

19-11-2003, 17:15

Mike,

I too think you're being pretty rude, but won't get offended by it.

Basically you're jumping to conclusions about people and a project of which you know little. The evidence coming in does not seem to support your opinion, but still you hold on to it.

Perhaps a little more tolerance would be in order - we show respect for your work and way of working, though having tried similar paths, wish to explore other ones.

"A grabbing, money spinning, chakra-chanting capitalist who charges £15 to get into an 'underground' event."

Who said it was an underground event ? The whole point, which perhaps you have missed, is that it seeks to reach out beyond the confines of the self-conscious, self-style and over-idealised underground and engage with a more mainstream audience.

Did you read anything about my back-ground in my original post on the other thread ? Do you perhaps imagine that you migt be wrong about me ? There's far too much in-fighting within the broader anti-capitalist movement and for you to brand someone as a capitalist just because they chrage £15 on the door for a event whose production is not to your personal taste smacks of prejudice to me.

At least the Dubman admits that a main reason for his position is his personal taste.

Of course at the end of the day, abuse will have little impact, far less than the more constructive dicussion elsewhere.

But tell me Mike - what else is going on in Brixton at the moment as far as social centres are concerned ? What happened to Cooltan ? Evicted. Ecotrip ? Evicted. Black Star Collective ? Evicted.

Whether you support what we do makes little difference to me, nor whether you think me a blood sucking capitalist. To be honest, the opinion of the headteachers of the local schools (Loughborough Primary, Larkhall Infants and Juniors, St Julians, Elmhurst, for example) where we work and their assesment of the impact of our work on the lives of their kids means a whole lot more.

I respect your work, which is of an entirely different nature than ours. Why, when you don't really know who we are or of what we are doing, do you insist on being so abusive ?

There are others in Brixton who have an interest in slagging me off - they have more to lose from our success as the balance of influence between the rejectionists and the co-operatists (for perhaps this is the real cleavage) will start to change as the ability of the latter to attract significant levels of wider support for their work will become increasingly apparent. For them, it's an ego issue. For you to ?

Things move on, and so do the ways people seeking meaningful social change seek to work. I think you and Urban 75 will continue to have an impact, though questions must be asked how wide an audience you reach.

Just because we chose to reach out beyond the Green Ghetto to engage with a wider cross section of the populaiton, and need to deal in a certain way to achieve this, THIS DOES NOT MAKE US GREEDY.

For this is basically what you are accusing us of, and you couldn't be more wrong.

Best wishes,

Steve

bristle-krs

19-11-2003, 17:20

:eek:

this is doing my head in

editor

19-11-2003, 17:53

Originally posted by steve indigenou
Who said it was an underground event ?Cooltan was an arts squat that hosted underground parties.

Describing yourselves as 'Cooltan Revisited' suggests that your parties would share those same 'underground' values.

I don't see any similarity between your venture and Cooltan, hence my comments.

As I've already said, my problem is not with your £15 parties in 'London's largest licensed dance venue' but the spurious association being made with Cooltan.

If that link hadn't been promoted, I could guarantee that you would have received an entirely different response from me and, I suspect, many others here.

I'm sure you're doing some great and worthy work, but pissing off the very people you hope to attract doesn't seem the smartest of moves.

Maybe I've got your intentions wrong (I probably have) but hopefully the comments here have made you aware of how people may see you in the wrong light.

Personally, I wish you all the best, but I can't see myself getting involved or interested in something that has a 'mission statement' in what appears to be Goa-hippy gibberish (and that's an honest opinion, not a dig. I truly don't understand what it is you're talking about. Why can't you write it in plain English?)