View Full Version : Asbestos found at Brixton Tube - Closure
lang rabbie
21-10-2003, 17:53
Don't shoot the messenger!
Story from today's SLP (http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/content_objectid=13539706_method=full_siteid=50100_headline=-Asbestos%2Dthreat%2Dto%2DTube%2Dservice-name_page.html)
Asbestos threat to Tube service
By Vicky Wilks, South London Press
BRIXTON Tube could be shut down for weeks after asbestos was discovered in its roof.
The busy station, relied upon by thousands of South Londoners, could be out of action if the decision is taken to close it down to passengers.
The discovery of the potentially harmful substance at the Victoria Line station was made by workmen as they fitted cabling for a new escalator to replace existing stairs.
A London Underground spokes-woman confirmed it could mean the closure of the Tube, although she could not say for how long.
She said: "Minute traces of asbestos have been discovered in the station roof, where they were looking at putting the cabling to power the escalators.
"It has not been disturbed and in this state it is safe - there is absolutely no safety risk to either customers or staff.
"However, we need to remove the asbestos so work can continue safely in putting the cables in to get the escalators up and running.
"The asbestos needs to be cleared so work can continue and it is far too early to tell if we will need to close the station but we will do our best to keep the station open and provide a full customer service."
She added: "It is constantly monitored by London Underground's own asbestos team."
The closure of the station would be a nightmare scenario for South London, where a shortage of Tube stops means places like Brixton, Balham and Stockwell are besieged by commuters every day, leading to overcrowding.
The co-ordinator of Lambeth Transport Campaign, John Stewart, said: "The closure would be a disaster for South London because Brixton is still one of the busiest Tube stations outside central London.
"It would make people's journeys difficult to impossible. The whole area would be a nightmare."
As we went to press, London Underground could not give any dates for the possible closure but they may be announced later this week.
Donna Ferentes
21-10-2003, 17:56
Fack.
I think I speak for tens of thousands....
Bloody hell. I've just almost choked on my malteser. I've already had to endure one Tube nightmare this year (closure of the Central Line, which is on my route to work). I can't possibly survive another one.
Tony's little ploy to get us fit. A less than 10 minutes walk to Stockwell.:confused:
If it is just Brixton tube then it could be worse. There are more than 7 buses & 2 overgrounds that go central.
Thameslink is 15 minutes from King's Cross.
:)
If it's harmful then fuck the politics. It needs to go.:(
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 08:13
Originally posted by MrSki
Tony's little ploy to get us fit. A less than 10 minutes walk to Stockwell.:confused:
If it is just Brixton tube then it could be worse. There are more than 7 buses & 2 overgrounds that go central.
Thameslink is 15 minutes from King's Cross.Indeed. But what if you're not going to King's cross? If, for instance, you need to go to Vuictoria and get the District Line? Yes, I can go to Stockwell and then get the Northern Line, by which time I've gone your ten minutes walk and taken a line going in the wrong direction. Do that twice a day and I've taken an hour out of my day, every day for weeks.
Or there's the overground at Brixton. Sounds ideal, but in practice, it's quite likely you won't be able to get on at Brixton because the trains will already be full by the time they get there. Oh, and Connex have just cut loads of services which stopped at Brixton.
What do you want? A flying carpet? You'll just have to deal with it if it happens.
For once it seems that LU 's hands are genuinely tied, they're dammed if they do & dmmed if they don't. Even if it's a tiny amount that would do no harm, they've come out hands up and told us & hopefully they'll get it sorted without the nightmare senario. If not, well such is life, I'd rather it was responsably disposed of over a couple of weeks now than left to cause further and no doubt, far wider disruption in the future.
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 08:53
Originally posted by Pie 1
What do you want? A flying carpet? No. But what's your point? Do you have a problem with people complaining about things that affect them?
Originally posted by Justin
Indeed. But what if you're not going to King's cross? If, for instance, you need to go to Vuictoria and get the District Line? Yes, I can go to Stockwell and then get the Northern Line, by which time I've gone your ten minutes walk and taken a line going in the wrong direction. Do that twice a day and I've taken an hour out of my day, every day for weeks.
Or there's the overground at Brixton. Sounds ideal, but in practice, it's quite likely you won't be able to get on at Brixton because the trains will already be full by the time they get there. Oh, and Connex have just cut loads of services which stopped at Brixton.
If you want to get to Victoria and the train is too full for your liking, you could get a bus or fucking walk.:p
An extra bit of reading time?
What would you have them do?
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 09:29
Originally posted by MrSki
If you want to get to Victoria and the train is too full for your liking, you could get a bus or fucking walkEquals six miles walk, or about two hours on two buses.
What would I have them do? Nothing. Except I'd have them do it in a context where I'm not still waiting for the third escalator several months after it was promised and I'm not still waiting for my Central Line refund (ditto). And so what? People complain about things that affect them. I imagine you may do so yourself, sometimes. Perhaps over things whose effect on your life and the lives of other people are more trivial than this?
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 10:08
Get a bus? Yeah right. The No 2 from Brixton comes at 20 minute intervals at the best of times (arriving three at a time) and then is besieged.
I work in Victoria and have got the bus many times when I'm sick of the tube and it's a crap route.
I was bloody sick of the tube this morning:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
I work in Victoria and have got the bus many times when I'm sick of the tube and it's a crap route. Why don't you get the train - it's only 7 mins from Brixton to Victoria and you soon learn to ignore the junkies milling about on the station.... (sadly, Brixton is one of the most unpleasant stations I've ever been - but the service is pretty good).
I always go by train if I have to get to Victoria as it's quicker and a far nicer journey than the underground
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 10:19
Originally posted by editor
Why don't you get the train - it's only 7 mins from Brixton to Victoria Well, that would be my plan, but as I said earlier, I suspect it may actually be next to impossible to get on there. Given that it's the last stop, and on the few occasions I've been on the platform in the morning the trains have already been packed, then if you displace all the Underground passengers - or even a fair proportion of them - on to the overground service, I suspect we're not going to make it into the carriage. (And as I said, the recent Connex service cancellations don't help.)
I get the service the other way in the evenings sometimes. That should be a little easier.
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 10:43
editor - I've got the overhead a few times when tube's been buggered and was shocked at the state of Brixton station. Jeez, does that place stink of piss!
Wouldn't mind in the daytime so much, but now nights are getting darker don't think I'd want to use it after dark. Would rather freeze my arse off in Buckingham Palace Road waiting for the No. 2:(
Anna Key
22-10-2003, 10:59
Am I the only one thinking how convenient it is for the new PPP firm running Brixton station and doing the upgrading work (Metronet Rail BCV Ltd (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1278728#post1278728)) to have suddenly discovered asbestos?
The contractor's under strong pressure from various sources to get the damn thing finished and has promised to bring the hoardings down by Christmas.
Their excuses for delays to date include: "problems obtaining new power supplies, changes to the scope of works and the difficulties of working on a very congested site."
To this can now be added the dreaded word "asbestos." What better excuse for further delay?
I see from the press release that no mention is made of the Health & Safety Executive. Instead the siuation is "constantly monitored by London Underground's own asbestos team."
Whose "asbestos team?" When they say "London Underground" do they actually mean Metronet Rail BCV Ltd? And presumably the latter is made up of numerous sub-contractors... e.g. the appalling Jarvis (now of Camden Town derailment fame).
Originally posted by Anna Key
Am I the only one thinking how convenient it is for the new PPP firm running Brixton station and doing the upgrading work to have suddenly discovered asbestos?
Probably,yes. :rolleyes:
The observation that the "minute traces" give the contractors excuses is indeed interesting... expecially if there are penalty clauses in their contracts.
I reckon the safest thing to do with asbestos is to varnish it and frame it.
I predict that the last wave of deaths from mesothel... bugger it, from asbestos in the lungs, will be among people hired by shady asbestos-removal outfits. Not that there are any shady ones, yeronner.
lang rabbie
22-10-2003, 11:58
On 23 July, I posted in this earlier thread (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49823)
Looking at the new Ken-controlled tube website for an update on today's Victoria Line delays, I spotted a link to the Tubefuture interactive webmap (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/ppp/index.asp) on what will be delivered by the (in)famous PPP contractors.
Clicking on Brixton brings up
"by end of 2004 we will have completed the congestion relief project in the station and installed an additional escalator and 2 MIP lifts" [MIP = mobility impaired persons???]
Revisiting the same site today, and clicking on Brixton tells us:
By 2007 we will have modernised the station
By 2007 we will have Introduced Station Accesibility Projects
By 2007 we will have Modernised lifts
By 2007 we will have Modernised escalators
Not exactly encouraging, although I suspect that almost all individual target dates earlier than 2005, not just those relating to Brixton, have now been removed from the site so that there can be no claims of broken promises before Ken's re-election campaign
Aux armes citoyens
Formez vos bataillons
Marchons, marchons
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons :mad:;)
Edited to add - I realise that "And drench our fields with their tainted blood" might be going it a bit strong against London Underground/TfL/Ken - any suggestions for an alternative that goes in time with the Marseillaise?
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 12:05
Mike - ioma;)
Bet if this station was in Sloane Square it'd be finished by now:rolleyes:
Brixton Hatter
22-10-2003, 12:44
MrSKi wroteyou could get a bus or fucking walk
Or cycle! :)
It takes about 20 mins to cycle from Brixton to Victoria - think about it people, f*ck the tube!
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 12:46
If I wanted to die under another Londoner's wheels I would have been cycling to work already thanks.
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 12:48
No fucking way am I cycling, I'd be shitting myself on the roads.
Actually, I have walked before when there's been strikes. I walked a number of times from Whitehall to Brixton Hill. It took my 1 hour and 20 minutes.
It's too bloody cold now though:p
Can't complain about the asbestos - it's a potential killer.
What would happen if they found a train that was actually not too full and on time at the rush hour? Would it be taken out of service?
Brixton Hatter
22-10-2003, 13:00
Minnie wrote:No fucking way am I cycling, I'd be shitting myself on the roads.
Justin wrote: If I wanted to die under another Londoner's wheels I would have been cycling to work already thanks.
Sorry to go on about cycling on this thread, but it really is a good alternative to the tube, esp if Brixton is going to be closed. You don't actually have to cycle ON the roads - 95% of the journey to Victoria (for example) is in cycle lanes, bus lanes and on quiet back streets, so cars don't normally get anywhere near you. You don't actually have to take the main roads (they're not the quickest route anyway) so you actually have a fairly quiet, chilled out cycle to work.
A lot of the reason why i think people take the tube and don't cycle in London is because they have a mental block about it. The same is true of my girfriend - as soon as I'd persuaded her to cycle and she'd done it a few times, she changed her attitude overnight and won't go near public transport now. Granted, it won't suit everyone, but why not try it once or twice? I've got a cheap road/mountain bike for sale if anyone wants it..:)
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 13:03
Hatter - I admire you but there's no way you'll catch me on a bike, I'd be terrified. I've got bad hearing, I've got bugger all sense of direction and I've got a bolloxed knee (which I got from falling off a bus!)
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 13:27
If Brixton has asbestos, how many other tube stations have and will they all need work done on them as well:mad:
Justin you have two choices . . .
1/ move
2/ change jobs
:cool:
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 14:13
I could never leave the cats.
Or the books....
Ms Ordinary
22-10-2003, 15:08
Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
If Brixton has asbestos, how many other tube stations have and will they all need work done on them as well:mad:
I'm not completely certain about this - but I think it may be the case that asbestos is only a danger if its disturbed (eg by building works)
so if you uncover it while doing a renovation, then you have to remove / seal it, but if its just sitting there & you aren't about to disturb it then its OK to leave it. possibly.
Actually I'd like to think they have invented the asbestos to give themselves an excuse to shut the station completely for a couple of weeks and finish the whole bloody job off properly but I think its more likely that it will just delay things further.
2007 ! ! ! :eek:
poster342002
22-10-2003, 15:30
As has been pointed out, all the alternative routes of getting from Brixton into the central London area are largely impracticle. The connex trains are too over crowded in the morning and the station is a very sinister place after dark. The number 2 bus service is abysmal and similarly overcrowded at the best of times. Cycling is an option for a few people but not many, for a variety of valid reasons.
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 15:33
poster - cheers for confirming what I said about the No. 2 bus.
Shame we can't post these Brixton Escalator/Station threads to LU and Ken Livingstone:mad:
Donna Ferentes
22-10-2003, 15:39
Never mind though, I've written an email to the South London Press. I expect the problems to be resolved within a week, and if capitalism itself hasn't been overthrown by Xmas, then my powers of rhetoric are not what they were.
Minnie_the_Minx
22-10-2003, 16:02
Justin
You expect the Brixton tube problem to be resolved by the end of the week:eek:
or your letter printed by SLP:confused:
Originally posted by poster342002
As has been pointed out, all the alternative routes of getting from Brixton into the central London area are largely impracticle.
You are fucking kidding aren't you? People, we are fortunate enough to live in one of the best connected transport hubs in the whole of London! It may not work like clockwork 100% of the time but it's a fucks site less inconvienient for us when something does go down than for most peeps in this city.
You have 6 ways to get to the central london not including cycling or walking
3 routes to the city
Herne Hill to city & kings cross is only a stones throw away if nessasary.
Get over it & get on with it.:rolleyes:
Donna Ferentes
23-10-2003, 10:50
It is "getting on with it", of course, which is being rendered particularly difficult.
poster342002
23-10-2003, 11:17
I realise now - we should never complain about anything. We should just gladly hand over our money and be grateful for what ever we're given (or not). Silly me.
tarannau
23-10-2003, 12:33
…although it has to be said Poster 342002, I rarely see you post anything but complaints. A happy clappy chappy you ain’t.
I’d reserve judgement until LU work out what to do. Will be an absolute fecker if they close the tube station down, but It’s not worth getting into a miserable tizzy until then.
:)
stuff_it
23-10-2003, 22:04
Why don't they reseal it, and put in a false ceiling for the new cables?
I always thought escilator cables went inder the stairs anyhow.
Fuckwits.
They are up to something I reckon.
It wouldn't cost more than hiring proper asbestos removers, and I thought it was always safer to leave it in place unless it's damaged.
:mad:
And just when I was thinking of moving down.
:(
I made the mistake of trying to use the Northern Line today. They've closed it at at Charing Cross. Now my geography of north of the river isn't that hot, but it seems to me that Charing Cross isn't Camden, which is the broken bit. Anyone know why?
My point being that if they close Brixton station, the tubes will probably stop at Green Park or somewhere.
Originally posted by poster342002
I realise now - we should never complain about anything.
I'm wasn't saying you shouldn't complain - just pointing out how laughable your statement is, that the only practical way to access central London is via the tube.
Complain away with Stuff - if once you've spoken to the head engineer, architects,& site manager and established that thery're all talking total bollocks and that you knew the cableing should go under the stairs & not in the roof all along - hey I'll probably join in too if that's the case! :p
Mr Retro
24-10-2003, 08:59
Originally posted by newbie
I made the mistake of trying to use the Northern Line today. They've closed it at at Charing Cross. Now my geography of north of the river isn't that hot, but it seems to me that Charing Cross isn't Camden, which is the broken bit. Anyone know why?
My point being that if they close Brixton station, the tubes will probably stop at Green Park or somewhere.
I used Charring Cross in the northern line on wednesday so I reckon the problem yesterday might have been a different one.
Originally posted by newbie
if they close Brixton station, the tubes will probably stop at Green Park or somewhere. [/B]
I was puzzled that they'd shut so much of the Northern Line - I can only guess it's to do with not setting up major overcrowding at (say) Oxford Circus.
Victoria Line trains regularly stop short at Stockwell, yes? Then the track layout allows them to turn the whole service round there.
lang rabbie
24-10-2003, 11:13
From today's update in the SLP (http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/content_objectid=13551020_method=full_siteid=50100_headline=-Asbestos%2Dstation%2Dstill%2Dopen-name_page.html)
As we went to press, Tube bosses said they should be able to provide dates for the closure next week.
Donna Ferentes
24-10-2003, 11:22
Yes, I saw that. Funny enough, it was previously going to be late this week! It's escalator syndrome....
lang rabbie
24-10-2003, 11:26
Never mind though, I've written an email to the South London Press. I expect the problems to be resolved within a week, and if capitalism itself hasn't been overthrown by Xmas, then my powers of rhetoric are not what they were.
Justin is too modest to mention that he got star billing in today's SLP Letters page.
Donna Ferentes
24-10-2003, 11:34
Now if it were the Beano, I'd have got five pounds and a Dennis the Menace badge.
lang rabbie
24-10-2003, 11:52
Let us know what you think of your "stylish pen" when it arrives.
Donna Ferentes
24-10-2003, 12:15
Oooh, I hadn't noticed that! I am indeed blessed. It will compete for my affections with my ceremonial Monarch Assurance International Chess Tournament Port Erin - Isle of Man 2003 pen which will no doubt leak into my jeans pocket some time in the near future.
Mrs Magpie
24-10-2003, 12:55
Well, to add the Brixton Tube woes, my other half will have a Guide Dog (it's official!) from the beginning of January and it's much too big to carry down the escalator and the stairs are out of action, so the Brixton Staff will be obliged to halt the escalators twice a day..................
Mr Retro
24-10-2003, 12:59
Fantastic News Mrs M. Is BL thrilled?
:)
Donna Ferentes
24-10-2003, 13:00
Originally posted by Mrs Magpie
so the Brixton Staff will be obliged to halt the escalators twice a day.................. They might as well do it in the same sense as a stopped clock is right twice a day...
Mrs Magpie
24-10-2003, 13:05
Originally posted by Mr Retro
Fantastic News Mrs M. Is BL thrilled?
:)
Yup! We were quite low-key about it in case it wasn't a good match, but it was great! He's quite a cheeky dog, but easily steadied. It's going to take so much stress out of his journey to work.
Mrs Magpie
24-10-2003, 13:06
Originally posted by Justin
They might as well do it in the same sense as a stopped clock is right twice a day...
Actually that would suit BL down to the ground because he won't have to waste time finding a member of staff to do it..........
IntoStella
24-10-2003, 13:29
Originally posted by Mrs Magpie
Yup! We were quite low-key about it in case it wasn't a good match, but it was great! He's quite a cheeky dog, but easily steadied. They didn't give you a three-legged one then? :D Yayyyy! I'm thrilled for you.
Anna Key
24-10-2003, 14:56
Originally posted by Mrs Magpie
my other half will have a Guide Dog (it's official!) from the beginning of January
Great news. :p
He must come round to meet the cats. They've only ever met one dog before (an ENORMOUS but very gentle German Shepherd) which sparked instant catatonic (sic) hysteria.
They froze on the spot, each with one foot in the air, and stayed that way for forty minutes!
It's good he's not arriving until January - missing the fireworks.
Originally posted by Justin
Oooh, I hadn't noticed that! I am indeed blessed. It will compete for my affections with my ceremonial Monarch Assurance International Chess Tournament Port Erin - Isle of Man 2003 pen which will no doubt leak into my jeans pocket some time in the near future.
The downside is that we now know your full name and where you live!
Appach Rd is in South St Reatham isn't it?
;) :confused:
I was passing thru the tube on fri afternoon and thought I'd stop at the info point and ask if there was any news on the asbestos. I went to the big window behind the barriers and the man turned on the microphone - i said 'is there any news about the asbestos?' he turned off the microphone and looked over his shoulder at the bunch of blokes behind, then turned back to me and said 'where are you from?' I said 'I'm a member of the public' he spoke to the group behind again and said 'come round into the office' so I went in through the side door where one man talked to me and said all the stations have got asbestos from the 60s - which begs the question that they must've known about it before hand - but I didn't really want to push it - and just said 'is there really any asbestos ?' etc and he shrugged and said 'higher powers'. I guess they thought i was from the press, but it was funny how jumpy they all are. It wouldn't harm to keep up the pressure on them a bit i figure with lots of people asking...?
Originally posted by Mrs Magpie
He's quite a cheeky dog, but easily steadied.
I agree entirely.
But what's the guide dog like?
Donna Ferentes
28-10-2003, 13:19
Anything new on this in today's SLP? I don't really want to part with a precious 35p unless I have to.
lang rabbie
31-10-2003, 09:06
From South London Press Friday 31 October
BRIXTON: London Underground has confirmed Brixton Tube station could be closed for up to a month while asbestos is cleared from its roof. An LU spokeswoman said the scale of the work was “enormous”.
The company has still not given specific dates for the closure but the spokeswoman said it was weighing up different options to minimise disruption to customers.
The closure will cause chaos for many South Londoners who rely on the Victoria Line Station
Donna Ferentes
31-10-2003, 09:17
Jesus H Christ.
Mr Retro
31-10-2003, 09:46
Fucking hell.
For one month I suppose we can read two?
I'm going to reconsider my abandoned moped plans.
Originally posted by Justin
I don't really want to part with a precious 35p unless I have to.
You forgot the sarcastic smilie: :rolleyes:
Or maybe you didn't. :eek:
IntoStella
31-10-2003, 12:14
Originally posted by hatboy
Appach Rd is in South St Reatham isn't it? What are you talking about? :confused: :confused:
Try consulting streetmap.co.uk
I know where it is dear. I was just teasing. :cool:
lang rabbie
31-10-2003, 12:26
Originally posted by Justin
Anything new on this in today's SLP? I don't really want to part with a precious 35p unless I have to.
I share Justin's prudent view, and only buy the Friday edition.
52 weeks@35p = £18.20 = 13 pints of decent bitter in the Crown & Sceptre;)
IntoStella
31-10-2003, 12:27
Originally posted by hatboy
I know where it is dear. I was just teasing. :cool: Teasing generally only works if you are usually nice to the person you're teasing. Otherwise it just looks like bullying.
Oh don't start with all that again. Teasing someone about 35p is not "bullying".
I'm not having this discussion. I'm not your enemy IntoStella and we've done all this.
My reaction to your above post in the pub would be "oh fuck off" said with a smile and rolling my eyes like this:
Oh fuck off. :rolleyes:
Donna Ferentes
03-11-2003, 11:41
I spoke to a chap in the ticket office today and he reckoned they weren't going to close at all - instead, they were going to rip out the asbestos over Xmas. How they would be able to do that when their previously announced plans foresaw a work-schedule lasting a month, was not clear to me at all. Perhaps Santa Claus will dispatch some of his elves to do the job.
Anna Key
03-11-2003, 13:06
^^ Well, he's not been talking to the South London Press (http://64.4.18.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=06a3e813d2c835898b140200d0736045&lat=1067868049&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2ficsouthlondon%2eicnetwork%2eco%2euk%2f0100news%2f0400lambeth%2fcontent_objectid%3d13575850_method%3dfull_siteid%3d50100_headline%3d%2dTube%2dstation%2dclosure%2dchaos%2d%2d%2d%2d%2dBut%2dwhen%2d%2dname_page%2ehtml):
Tube station closure chaos ... But when?
Nov 3 2003
London Underground (LU) has confirmed Brixton Tube station could be closed for up to a month while asbestos is cleared from its roof.
An LU spokeswoman said the scale of the work was "enormous".
The company has still not given specific dates for the closure but the spokes-woman said it was weighing up different options to minimise disruption to customers.
The closure will cause chaos for many South Londoners who rely on the Victoria Line station.
Donna Ferentes
03-11-2003, 13:33
Originally posted by lang rabbie
From South London Press Friday 31 October
BRIXTON: London Underground has confirmed Brixton Tube station could be closed for up to a month while asbestos is cleared from its roof. An LU spokeswoman said the scale of the work was “enormous”.
The company has still not given specific dates for the closure but the spokeswoman said it was weighing up different options to minimise disruption to customers.
The closure will cause chaos for many South Londoners who rely on the Victoria Line Station
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 08:33
Originally posted by lang rabbie
Let us know what you think of your "stylish pen" when it arrives. Well, my stylish pen arrived yesterday.
I can say with confidence that it is a pen. Further than that, I wouldn't necessarily wish to venture.
Anna Key
07-11-2003, 10:08
Evening Standard article (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/7574213?source=Evening%20Standard)
Steve Grant, Aslef London district secretary, said today: "Unless LU gives our safety representatives clear assurances of how and when the work to remove asbestos at Brixton station is to be carried out, our members will be instructed not to drive beyond Victoria.
"This is a very important issue both for our passengers and our staff. We have given LU until next Tuesday to come up with these assurances. We just hope the management sees sense."
Edited to add: much more importantly, how d'you stop the blue underlined link thingy from breaking up in that highly irritating fashion?
Minnie_the_Minx
07-11-2003, 10:11
Fuck me:eek: So you won't even be able to get a bus to Stockwell Station:eek:
Anna Key
07-11-2003, 10:59
It's not the first time this has happened:
Tube services between Brixton and Victoria had to be suspended for more than seven hours one day in September (2002?) after engineers found loose asbestos panels in a tunnel. Services only resumed after clearance air tests showed that safe levels were reached. It is not known how long the panels were loose before they were detected. Vibration from passing trains would aid the release of asbestos fibres which would then be dispersed throughout the Underground system.
Some time afterwards, safety reps on an inspection of some sidings near Brixton station found that the removal of similar asbestos-containing panels was taking place. In this case, though, it did not appear that clearance tests were being carried out to check whether fibres had been released. Reps are pursuing the matter with London Underground to find out exactly what is going on.
Dust on the Underground has long been a bone of contention between safety reps and the management. As well as asbestos, reps are concerned about the levels of silica, which can cause cancer by inhalation, found throughout the system. Despite many years of argument, no agreement has been reached on the best way of measuring dust levels. While the management maintains that occupational exposure levels are never breached, the reps believe that high concentrations of dust are achieved in at least some locations.
Source (http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/newslet/68dh.htm)
Given the choice of believing an elected safety rep (with statutory protection against unfair dismissal should they raise safety concerns which an employer would rather hide) or a privatised manager about safety on the tube I know who I'd trust.
lang rabbie
07-11-2003, 11:35
BBC London News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3250283.stm)
The drivers' union Aslef is threatening to advise its members not to drive between Victoria and Brixton on the Victoria line, if its concerns are not answered by next Tuesday.
Asbestos has been found at Brixton station, where new escalators are being installed, but London Underground (LU) said it has not been disturbed and is safe in its current state.
Asbestos dust can cause serious illnesses if inhaled.
"There is no safety risk to our customers and staff," an LU spokeswoman said. "However, we need to remove any asbestos we find so work can continue safely in putting in cables to get the new escalators up and running."
But Aslef wants "clear assurances" about when and how the asbestos will be removed and is threatening to advise its members not to drive past Victoria.
It would cause chaos on the line which carries almost 600,000 passengers a day.
Methinks ASLEF are using bogus grounds in this case to escalate (excuse the pun) other disputes with LU on more legitimate health and safety grievances.
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 11:42
You say so because....
Anna Key
07-11-2003, 11:44
Originally posted by lang rabbie
Methinks ASLEF are using bogus grounds in this case to escalate (excuse the pun) other disputes with LU on more legitimate health and safety grievances.
Methinks the new consortium of private companies running Brixton tube is desparate to find grounds to escape bad publicity and possible penalty charges for the massive cock-up made of Brixton tube station.
If I was an ASLEF official I'd go and talk to the Brixton station management (or their senior management) sharpish and take a couple of my most bolshy safety reps along with me.
Who knows what could be found during a particularly vigorous safety inspection? And who knows how grateful the management might be?
academia
07-11-2003, 12:20
Originally posted by Justin
You say so because....
It doesn't sound like a very helpful tone they're adopting, a bit bolshy and confrontational.
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 12:26
Yeah, people tend to get like that about health and safety.
IntoStella
07-11-2003, 12:29
Originally posted by lang rabbie
Methinks ASLEF are using bogus grounds in this case to escalate (excuse the pun) other disputes with LU on more legitimate health and safety grievances. And what would be the point, exactly, of undermining their case in a legitimate dispute with ''bogus grounds''? :rolleyes:
ASLEF, yesterday..
http://alibi.com/alibi/2002-07-18/artpics2-1.jpg
lang rabbie
07-11-2003, 13:33
The lead front page story (http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200southlondonheadlines/content_objectid=13599969_method=full_siteid=50100_headline=-Danger%2Dstation%2Din%2DSouth%2DLondon-name_page.html) in today's South London Press is
DANGER STATION
Asbestos fears may close southern stretch of Victoria Line
Bosses tight-lipped over plans
My point in my earlier (ASLEF-sceptic) post being that by shouting about asbestos risks, union reps hope to get more media attention, because the travelling public may think that there is a risk to all of us.
The legitimate health and safety concern is the ongoing debate about whether LU and its PPP contractors are doing enough to protect employees from dust. The dust these days is mostly iron, and health hazards remain unproven. [IMO from reading the links below, they are likely to be several orders of magnitude lower than those when asbestos was in more general use in brake blocks etc. ]
The source that Anna Key quoted was the October 2000 edition of the London Hazards Centre's newsletter - so Anna's insertion of a tentative 2002 date in brackets for the last asbestos related incident was wrong.
As I understand it, that article predates, the establishment of a joint management-union Dust Action Group, which has commissioned independent research.
There has been information on dust issues on the LU website since the Standard first ran with the issue when prompted by the tube unions' campaigns. It now includes the full reports of the research as well as LU's press release spin.
The most recent (September 2003) report (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/pressreleases/0309/dust_report_sep03.pdf) - preliminary conclusions are at pages viii to ix of the introduction.
The earlier November 2001 report of the study (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/about/report/dust/) included the following useful information on asbestos risks:
2.5 The composition of tunnel dust reflects exactly what might be expected from the source of dust. The high iron content results from wear on the rims and flanges of the wheels and on the heads of the rails and by contact between the moving wheels and the track (HSE 1981). The quartz content comes mainly from wear on the brake blocks which, for the older blocks, contained significant proportions of quartz. Asbestos was at one time of concern because the brake blocks contained 5% white asbestos (considered the least hazardous of the asbestos types). Some very limited tunnel lining with crocidolite had taken place in the 1960’s and fairly extensive train sound insulation with amosite was also installed along the tracks. However, this was stripped under controlled conditions in the 1970’s and up to the late 1980’s. The HSE report (OP4) cites a few instances where blue asbestos (the most hazardous) had been used but confirmed by the time of the report in 1981 that this had all been removed. At the time of the HSE report there had been 24 series of airborne asbestos measurements at 12 underground stations. The limits for blue asbestos are 0.2 fibres/ml for any 10 minute period and for other types of asbestos should not exceed 2 fibres per ml / 10 minutes. All of the measurements taken showed levels very much lower than these values. More recent changes in braking technology (the introduction of new brake blocks and rheostatic and regenerative braking) would be expected to have further reduced white asbestos levels overall. However no recent measurements of asbestos have been made available for this study.
Edited to add SLP link at top and correct other hasty lunchhour typos which may have confused.
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 13:36
Originally posted by IntoStella
ASLEF, yesterday..
http://alibi.com/alibi/2002-07-18/artpics2-1.jpg Aslan?
Lang Rabbie - it couldn't just be that ASLEF find it just as hard to get any information out of LUL as the rest of us? And that therefore, where there's a potential health and safety problem, they have to make a lot of noise in order to be heard?
Anna Key
07-11-2003, 13:44
Originally posted by lang rabbie
My point being that there is an ongoing debate about whether LU and its PPP contractors are doing enough to protect employees from dust issues.
Which is likely to heat up - quite rightly - now private profit and London underground health and safety are in collision following the PPP.
And at least the ASLEF leadership and their safety reps are elected (the former under stringent Thatcher anti-union laws).
The PPP lot are accountable primarily to their shareholders: the very people with a stonking great vested interest in reducing health & safety expenditure in order maximise profits.
Oh, and in making sure no penalty clauses in the PPP contracts are applied following the Brixton tube station cock-up.
As Livingstone keeps saying (words to the effect of) once there are bodies on the line the PPP will be smashed.
Shame that's what it takes.
Minnie_the_Minx
07-11-2003, 13:45
Incredible. Just rung London Transport information (020 7222 1234) who aren't even aware of the threat of closure of Brixton.
:eek:
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 13:47
Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
Incredible. Just rung London Transport information (020 7222 1234) who aren't even aware of the threat of closure of Brixton.
You got through? Did you speak to a real person?
Minnie_the_Minx
07-11-2003, 14:02
Justin
Yes, of course I spoke to a travel adviser. They're very helpful when they know what they're talking about.
Was looking to see if other buses besides 133 go to Liverpool St in the event that Brixton was shut. The guy was not aware that it may shut.
I had to inform him the decision should be made by Tuesday so for him to "expect to be busy". He thanked me for the warning:D :rolleyes:
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 14:12
Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
Justin
Yes, of course I spoke to a travel adviser. They're very helpful when they know what they're talking about.I'm sure they are. The point is that when I phone up LUL I get a message saying there are thirteen* people ahead of me in the queue and I'd be well advised to send an email instead. As they don't answer their emails more than once every two months this is not a strategy for the short-term.
[* = I mean thirteen, by the way, that was the figure last time I tried.]
Minnie_the_Minx
07-11-2003, 14:14
Are you talking about the 222 1234 number?
I know it's often busy but when it is the message is along the lines of "our travel advisers are busy, you are held in a queue and will be answered shortly" - no mention about how many people are in front of you
Anna Key
07-11-2003, 14:18
Originally posted by Justin
... they don't answer their emails more than once every two months...
They always answer my emails immediately. With an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then wait a week, email again and receive an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then email seeking a copy of their complaints procedure so you can complain about them not answering your emails. And receive an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then email to ask for a copy of their complaints procedure so you can complain about them not sending you a copy of their complaints procedure because you wanted to complain about them not answering your emails.
And receive an automated response saying they're really busy.
It's great!
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 14:19
Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
Are you talking about the 222 1234 number?I dunno actually. Since I've been pursuing my Central Line refund for eight months and have still to receive a declaration on the subject, the very thought of so much as looking up an enquiry number leeches me of the will to live.Originally posted by Anna Key
They always answer my emails immediately. With an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then wait a week, email again and receive an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then email seeking a copy of their complaints procedure so you can complain about them not answering your emails. And receive an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then email to ask for a copy of their complaints procedure so you can complain about them not sending you a copy of their complaints procedure because you wanted to complain about them not answering your emails.
And receive an automated response saying they're really busy.
It's great! Yes, that would be the routine. Is there a Franz Kafka in the house?
Minnie_the_Minx
07-11-2003, 14:21
doesn't sound like it. 020 7222 1234 is the travel helpline. It's where you can speak to an adviser and they'll tell you how to get from A-B.
Also lists which tubes/buses are running etc.
Donna Ferentes
07-11-2003, 15:34
Originally posted by Anna Key
They always answer my emails immediately. With an automated response saying they're really busy.
You then wait a week, email again and receive an automated response saying they're really busy.Hurrah! I just got another one!
It refers to "a recent influx of correspondence".
Nothing "recent" about it mate.
lang rabbie
11-11-2003, 10:21
Just found London Underground's press release of November 7th (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/pressreleases/0311/07.asp)
...
A London Underground spokesperson said: "There is no safety risk to our customers and staff. Although asbestos has been discovered in Brixton Station, it has not been disturbed and in that state it is safe.
"LU has its own asbestos team at the site and it is constantly monitoring the material there. However, the material will eventually need to be moved so work can continue safely in putting in cables to get the new escalators up and running.
"We are currently looking at the most convenient option to avoid disruption to our customers. It is too early to tell if we will need to close the station but we will do our best to keep the station open and to provide a full service.
"A decision on whether there needs to be a temporary station closure will be made later next week. [i.e. this week as at date of posting - LR]
"LU has met with Union Health and Safety representatives and their concerns have been discussed. We are working closely with them to determine the best way forward."
Minnie_the_Minx
11-11-2003, 10:27
From last week's Standard
"Aslef is demanding urgent assurances from London Underground over the removal of the asbestos.
The union has given Tube chiefs until Tuesday to produce these assurances. If not it will order its drivers to turn their trains round at Victoria"
Nothing new in the Standard yet. Shit, they'll probably delay announcing what's going to happen - just like everything else concerning Brixton tube
:rolleyes:
lang rabbie
14-11-2003, 12:27
There's a bizarre story on page 2 of today's SLP (not yet on their website)
To precis... ASLEF have now said "The air quality figures we have been asking for have been given so hopefully we can provide a service for the customers"
but the story then goes on to say:
It now looks more likely that just Brixton will be closed as trains terminate at Stockwell while work to get rid of the asbestos is carried out.
A spokeswoman for London Underground said: "Talks are continuing with union representatives. No final decision on what will happen has been made yet
So much for LU's previous (7 November) statement "A decision on whether there needs to be a temporary station closure will be made later next week.
I think someone at the SLP has their facts wrong - I don't think ASLEF ever threatened to close the whole Victoria Line.
Donna Ferentes
14-11-2003, 12:53
Originally posted by lang rabbie
So much for LU's previous (7 November) statement "A decision on whether there needs to be a temporary station closure will be made later next week. Well, yes, but that's their usual modus operandi, isn't it? The ever-recedig announcement/completion date. I noticed there was an absence of dates on the new notices up in the station this week.
However, there was at least a name attached to these notices - Helen Dimond, Station Manager. So I know who will be ignoring my letter of complaint.
Anna Key
14-11-2003, 13:27
Well I've just had this from LU. It only took them 14 weeks to respond. And I suspect the answer's wrong.
Thanks for your email dated 28 July 2003, regarding information about the arcade at Brixton station.
First of all please accept our sincere apologies for the long delay in replying. We have been dealing with an unprecedented number of emails since the derailment on the Central line in January and are unable to respond fully to emails at the present time.
I contacted the Station Supervisor at Brixton Underground and he mentioned to me that the shops at the Arcade are not there anymore as there are replaced by offices for London Underground staff.
Once again thanks for contacting us.
Yours etc
SlazengerMoss
20-11-2003, 10:44
Originally posted by lang rabbie
There's a bizarre story on page 2 of today's SLP (not yet on their website)
To precis... ASLEF have now said "The air quality figures we have been asking for have been given so hopefully we can provide a service for the customers"
but the story then goes on to say:
So much for LU's previous (7 November) statement "A decision on whether there needs to be a temporary station closure will be made later next week.
I think someone at the SLP has their facts wrong - I don't think ASLEF ever threatened to close the whole Victoria Line.
I think what ASLEF said was that would be the worst case senario but didn't rule it out.
As for Christmas, make alternative travel plans!!!
Minnie_the_Minx
20-11-2003, 11:02
There was never talk of the whole line closing, just from Victoria to Brixton because of worries about the asbestos dust getting in the tunnels.
Looks like they'll only close Brixton Station now
Brixton Hatter
21-11-2003, 12:24
Brixton tube will be closed from 21 Dec over xmas and into the new year. Bollocks :mad:
Apparently its on the front of the SLP
Minnie_the_Minx
21-11-2003, 12:30
bollox to that.
There's gonna be a lot of pissed off last minute Christmas shoppers:rolleyes: :D
lang rabbie
21-11-2003, 14:44
Full story is now on the SLP website
Ken Livingstone has said that a bus replacement service would be "tailored to meet customer demand" - How the hell can they meet the demand for extra buses given the way that people double park on the bus stops at both Brixton and Stockwell stations - short of arming the traffic wardens with Kalashnikovs?:confused:
Edited to remove non functioning link
Mrs Magpie
21-11-2003, 14:49
What is it about the SLP? It used to be possible to link to their stories........
Minnie_the_Minx
21-11-2003, 15:09
http://tinyurl.com/w021
{Edited to add: FYI - links to ICSouthLondon are too long and need to be put thru the TinyURL site to work.}
Minnie_the_Minx
21-11-2003, 15:10
SOD IT! This is much easier
Christmas tube nightmare Nov 21 2003
South London Press
BRIXTON Tube looks set to be shut over Christmas and well into the new year.
London Mayor Ken Livingstone said that Sunday, December 21, was the most likely closure date for the vital link. And London Underground has said the station would be shut for up to three weeks.
Mr Livingstone said the closure had been timed to "minimise disruption" over the quieter festive period.
But January will signal an Unhappy New Year for the thousands who rely on the station for their daily commute.
Meanwhile, traders fear their pre-Christmas profits may plummet.
Aaron Wilson, store director at Morleys, said: "I cannot believe the timing - it will annihilate us. The five days leading up to Christmas are our busiest."
Brixton's nightlife also looks sure to be hit hard with many revellers who frequent its many bars and nightclubs arriving by Tube.
James Campana, manager of the Plan B nightclub in Brixton Road, said: "The closure is bad news. But if it means the station will be complete that can only be a good thing."
Mr Livingstone was speaking at Mayor's Questions this week after the South London Press exclusively revealed last month that asbestos had been found at the station.
He said a bus replacement service would be "tailored to meet customer demand" and Tube tickets would be acceptable on bus and some rail services.
A London Underground spokeswoman said: "It has not been 100 per cent finalised but the 21st seems the most likely date because there will be less people travelling. However, we expect the work to be complete within three weeks."
The date is likely to be confirmed early next week. Commuters will be breathing a sigh of relief, however, that a planned strike south of Victoria due to safety fears now looks unlikely to go ahead.
News of the Brixton closure comes as the Tube union leaders expect to announce the results of a ballot called after a safety row. If members vote for action, Tube services across the network look set to be badly hit in the run-up to Christmas.
And I don't believe them when they say "three weeks" either. Betcha its three months.
lang rabbie
27-11-2003, 13:49
The official version from LU's website. My industry sources reckon on "at least three weeks, more likely five" rather than LU's current "up to three weeks".
November 26 2003
[B]Brixton temporary closure[B]
Brixton Underground Station will close for up to three weeks while asbestos removal work is undertaken in order for escalator refurbishment work to continue safely.
From close of traffic on 20 December 2003 all Victoria line trains will terminate at Stockwell Station and for one day on 26 December, trains will terminate at Victoria Station.
Customers are asked to use the rail replacement bus service between Brixton and Stockwell, which will run at two-minute intervals during the peak periods. LU tickets will be accepted on all existing local bus routes.
LU tickets will also be accepted on the following train routes: South Eastern Trains services between Brixton, Denmark Hill or Herne Hill and Victoria, South Central services between Clapham High Street and Victoria and Thameslink services between Loughborough Junction and Elephant & Castle or Blackfriars.
Some customers may also wish to walk to Stockwell, which takes 15 to 20 minutes.
Tickets should be purchased in advance as ticket sale facilities will not be available at Brixton from December 10 and throughout the closure.
Minnie_the_Minx
27-11-2003, 14:04
Brixton High Street is going to be f***ing murder in the mornings with all those buses competing for space:mad: :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
Brixton High Street is going to be f***ing murder in the mornings with all those buses competing for space:mad: :rolleyes:
http://www.brixtoncycles.co.uk/
your alternative transport guide:)
This is the thread for comments on the tube closure, etc. Rescued from page 2.
:)
poster342002
05-01-2004, 08:35
It's open!
Oddly enough, I found I actually quite liked the replacement bus sevice though, with it's friendly staff greeting passengers at the stops outside Stockwell & Brixton with a bit of cheerful banter. I'd sort of gotten used to seeing them each day and I'm sure they'll be missed by other regulars as well.
lang rabbie
05-01-2004, 10:01
I was gobsmacked when I saw the signs on the Northern line.
Dare I ask - how many escalators are in action?
poster342002
05-01-2004, 10:09
Still only two. The work was to remove the asbestos.
Station still looks like a total craphole, I'm afraid. :(
IntoStella
05-01-2004, 10:40
Originally posted by poster342002
It's open! Arrghhh!
I walked all the way to Herne Hill this morning, had to queue for 5 hours for a ticket and fight my way on to a train. And it cost me 3.70 to get to work.
I thought the tube was shut for another week. :rolleyes: :o
You know, wouldn't it have made lots of sense to continue the Brixton terminating buses, the 109, 250 etc. on to Stockwell so as to avoid the need for a change of bus at Brixton?
Of course it would. I should be in charge.
lang rabbie
05-01-2004, 16:24
From today's LU press release - Good News as Brixton reopens early (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/metro/04/0401/06/)
John Doyle, General Manager for the Victoria line said: 'Metronet (the Tube maintenance company) did a great job working around the clock to complete the works ahead of schedule. We are sorry for the disruption caused while these works took place at short notice, but I am pleased we have been able to open the station quickly and safely to allow the modernisation to continue.
'Thanks to local businesses and customers for bearing with us, and we welcome any feedback on the alternative services we provided during the closure.'
Now that the asbestos has been removed so that an improved power supply can connected, it is hoped to have the escalator up and running by April this year.
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