Sniffer Dogs at Brixton Tube [Archive]

UDancing?

24-09-2003, 16:09

I got off brixton tube about 2:45 n as i was walking up the escelator i herd a woman screaming from the top of her lungs... could seet there were policemen in the hall... she was beign escorted to one corner of the hall, handcuffed n an officer pulling her hair backward... then another guy stated screming... didn't see him at all... he was on the floor, face to the ground, yelling n about 4-5 coppers aorund him handcuffing him. no idea what was happenign or why. could that be related?
:confused:

JFC

24-09-2003, 17:30

They were at Herne Hill station last night, see my post entitled herne hill station

newbie

24-09-2003, 20:55

What drugs can these dogs reliably detect?

Mrs Magpie

24-09-2003, 20:58

Whatever they're trained to sniff out...the guy who is training BL's Guide Dog used to be a dog trainer for the RAF. It's done by rewarding the dog through a series of games. He had trained dogs to find semtex, amongst other things.

twisted

24-09-2003, 22:13

is it not done by giving the dog some charlie??? i heard that one way of training them was to get them addicted to the gear.

Mrs Magpie

24-09-2003, 22:31

Complete urban myth.

newbie

25-09-2003, 07:56

OK, 'nother question. Are the dogs smart enough to know that Lambeth is a special place and they shouldn't be hassling people for weed?

suzee blue cheese

25-09-2003, 08:02

Would they really be wasting their time sniffing for weed? No one would be able to get in or out of the station.

Donna Ferentes

25-09-2003, 08:36

"So, no change there then..."

Mr Retro

25-09-2003, 08:38

Are they definitely sniffer dogs? Maybe they are just there for intimidation?

If so, you'd have to assume they are only there to sniff out cocaine/heroin, otherwise as SBC it would be pointless.

I would have thought there were very few dogs capable of sniffing out just cocaine.

Maybe Mrs M you know more?

Donna Ferentes

25-09-2003, 08:40

I don't suppose they could sniff out the likely date when the escalator's going to be finished?

Blagsta

25-09-2003, 09:34

Originally posted by Mr Retro
Are they definitely sniffer dogs? Maybe they are just there for intimidation?

I reckon they were sniffer dogs. One policeman went up to a guy in front of me, as I was coming out of the ticket barrier, stopped him, let the dog sniff him for a second and then let him go.

hipipol

25-09-2003, 10:02

Met a guy in the street last night, looking to form a spontaneous demo, on account of the fact his G/F is terrified of dogs, took one look at assembled canine multitude, and bolted. Cops chased after her, knocked to ground, she fought back- now they charge HER with assault. No reason for orig stoppage.

They aint learned a thing

isvicthere?

25-09-2003, 10:12

Originally posted by Blagsta
Just got home, theres sniffer dogs at Brixton tube. The police seem to picking out scruffy looking people.
I must look respectable these days - they ignored me.

I had my work suit on and they checked me. The dog licked my hand. A nice touch!

Spud Murphy III

25-09-2003, 10:12

I feel bloody sorry for those sniffer dogs, having to smell the unwashed crotch areas of Brixton punters all day long.

:p

isvicthere?

25-09-2003, 10:15

Originally posted by Mr Retro
Are they definitely sniffer dogs? Maybe they are just there for intimidation?

The cop said to me the dog was to sniff drugs. Could have been lying, though........

Blagsta

25-09-2003, 10:33

Originally posted by isvicthere?
I had my work suit on and they checked me.

Yeah, but you just look dodgy whatever you wear. :p

William of Walworth

25-09-2003, 12:37

Originally posted by newbie
OK, 'nother question. Are the dogs smart enough to know that Lambeth is a special place and they shouldn't be hassling people for weed?

Looks like their handlers have spontaneously changed their policy? :mad:

Questions Must Be Asked ... :(

Such as : Was it Lambeth/Brixton local plod who organised this, or Metropolitan-wide DS?? :confused:

Donna Ferentes

25-09-2003, 12:44

Originally posted by William of Walworth
Looks like their handlers have spontaneously.... Was anybody else hoping for "combusted"?

hatboy

25-09-2003, 13:23

"They aint learned a thing"

I'm afraid what I see is Brixton police going back to their old heavy-handed ways, after our brief period of enlightened thinknig initiated by Commander Paddick.

It worries me, particularly when taken into account with the Black Police Association's recent announcement that if the police service doesn't change it's attutude to ethnic minorities once and for all "a whole generation is likely to be criminalised."

Mrs Magpie

25-09-2003, 13:29

Originally posted by William of Walworth
Was it Lambeth/Brixton local plod who organised this, or Metropolitan-wide DS?? :confused:
I'm pretty sure this is part of the ongoing long-term Operation Elliott (sp?....there are so many variations on that name). If it is, then it's not Lambeth Division police at all.............

Mrs Magpie

25-09-2003, 13:34

Originally posted by Mr Retro
Are they definitely sniffer dogs?
I reckon so

Originally posted by Mr Retro
I would have thought there were very few dogs capable of sniffing out just cocaine.
No, just because humans can't smell it doesn't mean it can't be detected by a dog...dogs have such highly developed sense of smell you can train them to sniff anything out....including pollutants on open land......there are dogs to sniff out every substance you could imagine, from truffles to trichloropolyethylene (I made that name up, but you get my drift).

Mr Retro

25-09-2003, 13:47

I should have made myself clearer, I realise dogs are easily capable of sniffing out whatever they are trained to. I meant dogs trained to be capable of just sniffing out coke/heroin alone. Would there be many? When you think of budgets, each dog needs a handler, the fact a lot of dogs would not turn out to be suitable etc etc?

BTW delighted to hear Blind Lemon is on the brink of getting a dog.:) :)

Mrs Magpie

25-09-2003, 14:05

Apparently it's really easy to train a dog to sniff things out.........BLs Guide dog trainer told me how he did it..(the example he gave was semtex). First of all you just play with the semtex*, throwing it hand to hand, playing with and praising the dog. The dog associates that smell with playing, praise and affection. Then you take your semtex and stick it somewhere the dog can see it, and praise and reward the dog for seeing where it is (these days they are trained to sit and look intently at where the stuff is because there is a danger of destroying evidence with eager scrabbling paws). Then you can start hiding it and rewarding and praising the dog for finding it....it's that easy...you can train a dog to find a variety of substances......Sniffer dogs have a longer working life than guide dogs by about 3 or 4 years......they are also much faster and easier to train than guide dogs...because it's about play....I suspect there may be a rush to train family pets to recover missing *items* now I've told you this...........

*before there is panic they don't train using real semtex, they use something impregnated with the same smell. Semtex smells almondy, he told me.

Minnie_the_Minx

25-09-2003, 14:08

Can't remember the full details but years ago I read a story about the Americans training their sniffer dogs. They planted 10 bags of drugs (can't remember what drugs) in a room somewhere. The dog found 11 bags!

:p

Private Storm

25-09-2003, 14:16

Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
Can't remember the full details but years ago I read a story about the Americans training their sniffer dogs. They planted 10 bags of drugs (can't remember what drugs) in a room somewhere. The dog found 11 bags!

:p

Obviously the dog cut the drugs with baby laxative whilst nobody was looking. That is one clever puppy.

miss minnie

25-09-2003, 14:21

banknotes tainted with cocaine (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/464200.stm)
More than 99% of the banknotes in circulation in London are tainted with cocaine, according to a study.

The BBC's Tim Samuels: "Some staggering results have emerged"
And one in 20 of the notes show levels high enough to indicate they have been handled by dealers or used to snort the drug.

Minnie_the_Minx

25-09-2003, 14:26

trained dogs that can sniff out cancer in humans

suzee blue cheese

25-09-2003, 14:48

and trained dogs that can alert their humans as to when they're heading for an epileptic fit.

Minnie_the_Minx

25-09-2003, 14:59

yeah, I've read a couple of articles about that

Bob

25-09-2003, 15:43

Originally posted by miss minnie
banknotes tainted with cocaine (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/464200.stm)

It must be only a matter of time before somebody works out a way to wash banknotes in some chemical that allows them to collect the cocaine off banknotes. I suppose that would be money laundering....

miss minnie

25-09-2003, 15:48

considering what cocaine will cost now after these busts you may as well just take a wad of notes and eat them... :rolleyes: :D

Giles

25-09-2003, 16:49

In spite of the police's crowing on TV about how their recent big drugs bust will "drive up the price of cocaine on the street" I bet that it won't. It will still be a drop in the ocean and will make sod all difference.

It will be interesting to see. I will find out and report back (by asking this mate of a mate of mine, of course!).

Giles..

Mr Retro

26-09-2003, 09:29

Mr BC

26-09-2003, 11:23

I saw the police physically restraining people at Brixton so the dog could sniff them. That is against the law. It's an assualt and, quite possibly, false imprisonment as well. They have no right to do what they're doing.

miss minnie

26-09-2003, 11:50

i wasn't there but it sounds disgusting and makes me wary of brixton tube at the moment. anyone who was stopped might find it worthwhile to contact the council for civil liberties.

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JohnDoe

26-09-2003, 13:20

Maybe the dogs are there to sniff out your hard earned cash!

BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3141564.stm)

Bob

26-09-2003, 13:46

which is rare coming from me.

I suspect they've been thinking a bit about what happened in New York. When they started to clean up the subway there the really serious problem was guys with guns and knives riding the subway mugging people. But it turns out that the sort of people who do that don't tend to buy tickets and are regularly carrying illegal drugs. so what the police did was to randomly blitz subway stations with sniffer dogs etc. and arrest people who didn't have tickets or had jumped the barriers. Many of these people would turn out to either be bail jumpers or carrying weapons. In time it became known amongst New York's criminals that carrying a weapon on the subway was stupid, particularly if you were carrying drugs or fare dodging, so the eventual effect was to massively reduce the number of weapons carried on the subway - which reduced the number of killings, woundings and muggings. So there is a good argument that by targeting the smaller crimes on the tube the police will reduce more serious crimes.

hatboy

26-09-2003, 14:51

There are also important arguments against a "zero tolerance" NY policing style here. Oppression of alternative- and street-culture for instance.

Bob

26-09-2003, 16:51

I'm not arguing for New York style zero tolerance - simply that it is possible that going out to catch people for fairly petty crimes can have some very positive side effects... I'm against stop and search being used much for instance because not only is it invasive and damaging to relationships between people and hte police but also it is pointless. Arresting people for fare dodging is at least targeting people who are guilty of something - rather than doing it on the basis of their skin colour, looks, legal behaviour etc.

Gramsci

26-09-2003, 18:44

Ive noticed increased police activity around the tube station.Ive seen the police stopping someone drinking a can of lager outside the tube(the New Labour byelaw on street drinking is still in force as far as I know).So I get the impression they have been told to "clean up" the tube station not just to stop heroin/crack dealers.Their was/is a problem with dealers using the tube and rail to do regular dealing runs.This can be dealt with targetted arrests after relevant intelligence is gathered.A friend of mine witnessed such a targetted arrest a while ago.The police leapt out of a van and went for a particular person as he went past.

The Zero Tolerance approach as used in New York I dont agree with at all.One must also remember that in the US a disproportunate number of black people are in prison.The US justice system keeps the poorest in line who are mainly concentrated amongst black Americans.Getting sniffer dogs in is getting nearer to Zero Tolerance.U might just have a bit of weed on u or a small packet of Coke for personal use and get pulled up.Giving our legal system its impossible not to break the law if you are going to have a life.

I doubt whether this will last its probably a PR exercise sending sniffer dogs in for a few days.

William of Walworth

26-09-2003, 23:10

Fantastic PR, that ... :mad: :(

ViolentPanda

27-09-2003, 20:41

Further to what Mrs M said, IIRC sniffer dogs more often detect cocaine through the solvents used to process it, which can include benzene and petrol.

Mrs Magpie

27-09-2003, 20:43

Originally posted by Gramsci
I doubt whether this will last its probably a PR exercise sending sniffer dogs in for a few days.
Well Operation Elliott has been going for at least two years and is Londonwide and very successful in arrest terms, which is why it's still going.......

isvicthere?

29-09-2003, 12:22

Originally posted by suzee blue cheese
and trained dogs that can alert their humans as to when they're heading for an epileptic fit.

And my dog - without any training - can alert me when she is hungry!

orangejuice

02-10-2003, 19:51

I've seen these guys all over. They were even in croydon a couple of months ago which was abit of a shock, but then some of the dodgyness that seems to gravitate towards trian stations it can't be a hugley bad thing. They even have plain clothes at west croydon once.
I jumped through behined a mate and 2 pc transport cops stopped me. After i had a rant about the police wasting there resources chasing after sharholders money and the state of the railway. He told me they were checking for poeple with warrents out on them and told the connex bloke to let me get a ticket which was nice of them. So I guess there not all basterds then.

tendril

02-10-2003, 19:59

solution:

put yer stash up yer own dogs arse..

then when the sniffer dog goes for it it will look just like one dog sniffing anothers backside.

cemertyone

03-10-2003, 13:31

:D :D ;) :p :cool: ......quality dude

LDR

03-10-2003, 13:56

Originally posted by Giles
In spite of the police's crowing on TV about how their recent big drugs bust will "drive up the price of cocaine on the street" I bet that it won't. It will still be a drop in the ocean and will make sod all difference...

I agree. I've found the price has dropped by a £10 over the last couple weeks. :eek:

Gramsci

03-10-2003, 18:19

I was coming home last night and went to sainsburys by the tube about 8.When I came out I saw 5 cops searching 2 of our local rather pathetic looking junkies.

Whilst I dont want the worst effects of dealing,shootings in the street,it gets to point where they just start moving people on who are homeless or beggars.This is already happening in the West End(Westminster).Their was also a recent court judgement(I believe in Manchester)where a harmless beggar was banned from the city centre.This may be used by other Councils.

hatboy

04-10-2003, 12:55

"Whilst I dont want the worst effects of dealing, shootings in the street, it gets to point where they just start moving people on who are homeless or beggars."

I agree. Despite the advances there are still plenty of meat heads in the police. They are still rude to innocant people in the street. Also I reckon every time we get a new commander or whatever they think "right, I'm gonna make my mark on this town", Brixton being hard to police and and regarded as a testing ground. So every time we get a new top cop we get some new "publicity seeking draconian crackdown".*

*this phrase nicked from "Dead Ringers". :)