Queens 'under new management' [Archive]

hatboy

11-08-2003, 09:41

Originally posted by Pie 1
a touch melodramatic hatboy & as for "the poor" I don't recall the're booze being significantly cheaper than any other normal boozer around here.
But I hope it not the Merrits

Not really. The Queens was very tolerant of people and their problems. The lock-ins, a sly smoke, people being abit pissed or OTT - all OK. You could even get a free beer off them occasionally if you were known in there.

If it's Dogstar or Merrett (I reckon the Dogstar is not entirely independent of him), it will be for the well-behaved, the well-healed and the well-adjusted only.

Anna Key

11-08-2003, 11:23

I've also heard the 'bought by Dogstar' rumour and the 'bought by Merrett' one. Then someone said last night it's been sold to the owner of some pub in Dulwich.

I've had such fun in that pub, with the badly behaved, the poorly healed and the maladjusted.

IntoStella

11-08-2003, 11:36

Very sad news. We need to find a new place to hang around late at night wth chaotic alcoholics. Still, there's always Tate gardens.

Who was that muttering ''Or anna key's garden?" Hush yer mouth. :D

Originally posted by Anna Key
Then someone said last night it's been sold to the owner of some pub in Dulwich. What we heard was that the guy is the owner of a pub in Dulwich Village (which is actually a road). I've double checked on t'interwebthingy and I'm sure there is only one -- the lovely Crown and Greyhound. While this hopefully bodes well in terms of it not becoming a mindless doof doof bar, I should imagine it will be taken a long way upmarket. But then the Queen was so spectacularly downmarket that this is arguably unavoidable. I still think it's a shame, though.

Pie 1

11-08-2003, 11:47

Originally posted by hatboy
Not really. The Queens was very tolerant of people and their problems. The lock-ins, a sly smoke, people being abit pissed or OTT - all OK. You could even get a free beer off them occasionally if you were known in there.

I

Ok, fair enough , I got the wrong end of your 'poor' reference.

Anna Key

11-08-2003, 11:49

You could also play pool in there... at 10.30am... with hair of the dog... and Nancy Sinatra on the jukebox... Simple pleasures... not much to ask... Are you ready, boots? Start walkin'

Pie 1

11-08-2003, 11:50

Originally posted by IntoStella
But then the Queen was so spectacularly downmarket that this is arguably unavoidable.

:D :D

corporate whore

11-08-2003, 11:52

Should the new owners be those of the Dulwich Dog, then all may not be lost, as long as they don't try to replicate said pub's rugger and sweater-round-the-shoulders atmosphere (or indeed, appaling Sunday lunches).

However, doing up a pub almost inevitably results in the incumbent clientele shifting on to pastures new (see another Dulwich boozer, the EDT).

The redeeming features of the C&G are its beers (Leffe! On tap!) and, of course, it's ridiculously large garden... only one of which will be possible at The Q..

Donna Ferentes

11-08-2003, 12:15

Originally posted by corporate whore
The redeeming features of the C&G are its beers (Leffe! On tap!)
Sorry, where exactly do I go to avail myself of this facility?

davey

11-08-2003, 12:16

Originally posted by Anna Key
I've had such fun in that pub, with the badly behaved, the poorly healed and the maladjusted.

I've got a soft spot for that pub! Though I did wonder whether it was a good thing that the bar girl recently poured my pint before I got to the bar :o .

It had regulars that would not have got in to a lot of bars in Brixton. Perfectly harmless, friendly individuals who were just a little, well, different. Had some bizarre conversation in there :D .

isvicthere?

11-08-2003, 12:17

I, for one, will really miss the inimitable atmosphere of the Queen. There is often debate on these boards along the lines of "original Brixton character" vs. "boring yuppie interloping". Now definitions may vary, but surely no-one could dispute that the joyfully chaotic misfit-fest that was a late one at the Queen had an old school Brixton vibe all its own.

IntoStella

11-08-2003, 12:27

There you go, Justin. (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=533180&y=173938&z=0&sv=se21+7bj&st=2&pc=se21+7bj&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf) Unfortunately, though, this Originally posted by corporate whore
Should the new owners be those of the Dulwich Dog, then all may not be lost, as long as they don't try to replicate said pub's rugger and sweater-round-the-shoulders atmosphere ...is all too true. It is an absolutely beautiful, unspoiled Victorian pub, but it could lose some of its more odious customers. All is not lost -- just try to avoid it on a Saturday night when they hunt in packs.

Donna Ferentes

11-08-2003, 12:42

What, they have Leffe on tap at a Post Office?

Time to go nationwide on that one, I reckon.

[I like this (http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/show.shtml/536/) - "rumoured to be the most expensive pub in the country"!]

editor

11-08-2003, 12:45

The sign on the pub says it's now managed by a company called something like ' Antic Limited'

corporate whore

11-08-2003, 12:50

Justin - that's probably just a rumour spread by Dulwich types in order to keep out the riffraff. It's got a lot of faults, but is no more expensive than many other London pubs.

Anyway, back to The Queen...

Brixton Hatter

15-08-2003, 13:31

Had a walk past the Queen last night on my way to the Duke of Eddie and saw the notices on the windows. The people applying for the licence at the refurbished Queen are Anthony James Thomas and Maxwell Alderman - anyone know who they are?

Anna Key

15-08-2003, 14:33

Originally posted by editor
The sign on the pub says it's now managed by a company called something like ' Antic Limited'
From Companies House:
Name & Registered Office :
ANTIC LIMITED
1 LORDSHIP LANE
EAST DULWICH
LONDON
SE22 8EW

Status :Active

Company No. :03902705
Date of Incorporation : 05/01/2000
Country of Origin : United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature Of Business (SIC(92)): 5540 - Bars

Accounting Reference Date : 30/04
Last Accounts Made Up To : 30/04/2002 (SMALL)
Next Accounts Due : 29/02/2004
Last Return Made Up To : 05/01/2003
Next Return Due : 02/02/2004
Last Members List : 05/01/2003
Suggesting the Dulwich rumour is true.

Brixton Hatter

15-08-2003, 15:42

Lordship Lane eh? Interesting. I know a solicitor on Lordship Lane who's involved in the local business community there - I'll ask her if she knows anything more....

Pie 1

15-08-2003, 17:14

No 1 Lordship Lane. That'll be the EDT (East Dulwich Tavern) Then.

Pie 1

15-08-2003, 17:36

And whilst they are certainly not the worst option, the poor will most definitely not be welcome.
They tried to charge me £3 fucking quid for a bottle of Becks in there last night.

hatboy

15-08-2003, 17:42

Well I reckon they might get some trouble if it's too poshed up.

Anyone who knows please refer EDT to this thread.

EDT - GET IT RIGHT!

Don't alienate the your existing clientelle, you can add to it, but don't take this pub away from the regulars - OK :)

murray

19-08-2003, 14:21

I spoke to the ex-landlord the other day and the Queen is definitely now part of the Dogstar empire. Apparently it's to remain as a pub but with some sort of emphasis on food. Anyone got any ideas where I can go now that my pub comfort blanket has gone?

Donna Ferentes

19-08-2003, 14:30

Presumably it will be servicing the people in the castle they're building on Ferndale Road.

hatboy

19-08-2003, 15:05

So are both the Queen and the Dogstar Punch Tavern franchises then?

And as such can anyone assure me that neither has any connection atall with the Merretts?

Still sounds like it's gonna be posh and bland.

Pie 1

19-08-2003, 16:31

So what's with the EDT connection? Anna Key got that info from a notice on the Queen, yes:confused:

Anna Key

20-08-2003, 09:54

Originally posted by Pie 1
So what's with the EDT connection? Anna Key got that info from a notice on the Queen, yes:confused:
No. The Editor said: "The sign on the pub says it's now managed by a company called something like ' Antic Limited'"

I did a company search on that compay name and got:

"Name & Registered Office :
ANTIC LIMITED
1 LORDSHIP LANE
EAST DULWICH
LONDON
SE22 8EW

Status :Active

Company No. :03902705
Date of Incorporation : 05/01/2000
Country of Origin : United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature Of Business (SIC(92)): 5540 - Bars

Accounting Reference Date : 30/04
Last Accounts Made Up To : 30/04/2002 (SMALL)
Next Accounts Due : 29/02/2004
Last Return Made Up To : 05/01/2003
Next Return Due : 02/02/2004
Last Members List : 05/01/2003"

Now another company (TBCA Ltd) with the same registered office address wants to build a gated security estate, carefully avoiding any social housing provision by only building in blocks of 14 units at 14-20 Tulse Hill. See here (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1146662#post1146662).

I prefer the old boys at The Queen RIP. A better class of people.

Mr Retro

20-08-2003, 11:21

Where will all the regulars go now? There is nowhere else besides the beehive or goose really is there?

Brixton Hatter

20-08-2003, 12:23

I can't believe there is a connection between Antic (the people refurbsihing the Queen) and the people building the gated develoment on Tulse Hill. What are they like? Is it their mission to rinse the Brixton area of everything it has to offer property-wise?

Obviously I will reserve judgement until I see the refurbished pub, but it all sounds fcuking dodgy to me.

hatboy

20-08-2003, 12:30

Years ago in Brixton it didn't matter who you were, we were all in it together. It was the outside world's attitudes that were negative to Brixton, but we knew it was great so fuck them.

A town of marginals, political dissenters, artists and, worst of all for middle England, lots of black people live there! :rolleyes:

Now, unless you're successful and conventional you can piss off.
It's the same in Hackney.

The latest thing is to brand Brixton a "cultural quarter". While I prefer this to simply promoting it as another crappy shopping centre, I can't help feeling that signs going up pointing to a "cultural quarter" only go up when all the artists and marginals have long since been kicked out by "concept dining spaces" and "luxury apartments" in "vibrant" Brixton.

I agree with Epona's post about gentrification rubbing people's noses in their poverty and exclusion.

:(

murray

20-08-2003, 12:59

I'm still gutted about the Queen but the fact of the matter is it was barely breaking even. Yah boo sucks to gentrification and all that, but how would you suggest these places should be funded? Lottery money?

hatboy

20-08-2003, 13:07

"Yaa boo sucks to gentrification and all that"

I can't really talk to prats who talk like that. Sorry.

2 posts and already pissing me off. :p

Brixton Hatter

20-08-2003, 13:16

"but how would you suggest these places should be funded"

For a business (esp a pub in Brixton) to succeed, I'd say the first rule is to attract and engage the local community. Create loyal customers who feel comfortable in your surroundings. Be friendly. Charge reasonable prices. Be nice to the neighbours. Play good music. It's not rocket science. Owners will need to work hard and will sometimes need to be a bit creative at getting the punters in, but the business is there.

The other tack is to market yourself as a place for the hip and trendy and try to attract wealthier people from inside and outside the area. This is fine while you are flavour of the month, but when the next new bar opens and the crowds flock elsewhere, you're fcuked. You have no loyal customers. Then the place closes down and the process starts again.

In fact, it's not just a question of how to "fund" a pub, it is gentrification itself that is responsible for many businesses closing down - new businesses take customers away, rents spiral upwards etc etc.

Brixton Hatter

20-08-2003, 13:18

I think Hatboy is saying that this (Brixton forum) is not the place the belittle the effects of gentrification!

welcome by the way

IntoStella

20-08-2003, 13:21

Originally posted by Brixton Hatter
I can't believe there is a connection between Antic (the people refurbsihing the Queen) and the people building the gated develoment on Tulse Hill. What are they like? Is it their mission to rinse the Brixton area of everything it has to offer property-wise?
Obviously I will reserve judgement until I see the refurbished pub, but it all sounds fcuking dodgy to me. Thank god there are people keeping their eyes and ears open and asking 'awkward' questions. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Yes, I may be judgmental/prejudiced/jumping the gun and whatever else I've been accused of, but I really can't see myself having much time for an establishment run by a firm that is building gated communities for the uber rich.

Argue all you like about whether or not all white/middle class people are really gentrifying yuppies, but I think a lot of people are agreed that the building of gated developments really is the worst, most blatantly elitist, divisive, damaging and intolerable aspect of gentrification. Even the bleedin' Merretts aren't doing that. :eek:

murray

20-08-2003, 13:23

Mmmmm, welcoming. I'm also pissed off at the onward march of Clapham but 90% of the time the Queen was empty.

IntoStella

20-08-2003, 13:27

Originally posted by murray
I'm still gutted about the Queen but the fact of the matter is it was barely breaking even. I suspect it may have had more to do with the sickeningly vicious attack that nearly killed the landlord at the start of this year. My feeling is that he had had enough and wanted to get out. And who can blame him? There had also been a good deal of constabulary attention in the previous months.

It's all fucking depressing. :(

PS Welcome, Murray :) ;) :cool:

hatboy

20-08-2003, 13:30

Murray, no, since when? At what time of day/night?

<edited to add: yeah it would be since what IntoStella describes, I'm thinking of before all of that>

I've had some fantastic, warm-hearted Brixton nights in there in the past with all the ASBO's waiting to happen.

Where can people deemed anti-social but those with very narrow measures of what is anti-social, go now?

The Goose? The Beehive? The second one isn't a bad pub, it's cheap for one, but the look of it is very pub-in-a-kit. Guess people at the bottom can only have the places nobody else wants or nothing atall.

murray

20-08-2003, 13:47

The Queen is a major loss. I loved the place and had loads of great nights there. I was just questioning the attitude that seems to suggest that these places should be run as a public service. There are still enough places to go to in Brixton without having to resort to Living, etc.

Donna Ferentes

20-08-2003, 13:50

Hmm, but nobody's said that, have they? Nobody's denied that the place has to be able to earn its keep. But just because a given concern isn't doing that doesn't mean it can't, does it?

hatboy

20-08-2003, 14:02

Originally posted by murray
The Queen is a major loss. I loved the place and had loads of great nights there. I was just questioning the attitude that seems to suggest that these places should be run as a public service. There are still enough places to go to in Brixton without having to resort to Living, etc.

Still places? Don't blink. :)

No, nothing should be a public service! Everything should be upmarket and exclusive. People who are poor are worthless, deserve zero facilities and should be forcibly ejected from our new urban oases of cool. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

Seriously, a pub doesn't have to be a public service to work with, not against, a varied, local clientelle.

Watch out The Queens new management. You might get your windows bricked*!

*Not a threat, an observation. I've seen it at Dogstar and Living.

murray

20-08-2003, 14:03

Response to Justin: Maybe, but the changes required to make it earn its keep will render the Queen a very different and worse place.

Mr Retro

20-08-2003, 14:06

I can see the point Murray is making though.

As you say Justin the Queen wasn't earning it's keep, there was no reason why it couldn't, but it didn't. Perhaps it's because what IS though, about the attack.

I never got the feeling that it was trying to increase business. We always walk past it on the way to the Beehive.

There is a lot of gnashing of teeth about the queen closing but how often did the people who are mourning it's closure drink in there?

Donna Ferentes

20-08-2003, 14:08

Originally posted by murray
Response to Justin: Maybe, but the changes required to make it earn its keep will render the Queen a very different and worse place.
Necessarily? You'd have to expand on that.

hatboy

20-08-2003, 14:12

"There is a lot of gnashing of teeth about the queen closing but how often did the people who are mourning it's closure drink in there?"

Weekly up till last year (cut back drinking in general). But it's not just about me is it? It's the whole thing as I said.

Mr Retro

20-08-2003, 14:18

I agree with what your saying.

I can't complain about it's loss though, because I didn't drink there enough. In fact I even feel a bit guilty because I'd only go in there for a late one, which probably contributed to it's downfall.

murray

20-08-2003, 14:19

"There is a lot of gnashing of teeth about the queen closing but how often did the people who are mourning it's closure drink in there?"

A few times a week. Its lack of effort to drum up business was part of the attraction. It was rare to be able to sit in a puc these days without feeling you're being marketed at. Making the place profitable i.e. pushing up prices and really selling the place would have made it a very different beast.

hatboy

20-08-2003, 14:22

Yeah, I'll stop now. It's just mates go on about it too and people are pissed-off with all this stuff.

It's often these pissed-off people who have no place to take their opinions so I like to do a bit of random ranting about it sometimes for me and for others. :)

Donna Ferentes

20-08-2003, 14:23

Originally posted by murray
Making the place profitable i.e. pushing up prices and really selling the place would have made it a very different beast.
Do you really need to do that though? Pubs haven't, taditionally, been packed out all the time. Naturally you'll make more money if you are, but ther's no reason to think that pubs have to do that. The Elm Park Tavern round my way, for instance, seems to manage. Now for all I know it'll close down tomorrow, but tomorrow is yet to come...

christonabike

20-08-2003, 14:38

It better not do, Justin, I'm moving to Elm Park and I like that boozer!
(Are you allowed to hurdle the blackboard in the corner door?)

Back to it, peeps, my opinion, The Queen is a quality boozer that I frequented occasionally but not enough

Mr Retro

20-08-2003, 14:42

Do you really need to do that though?

From my experience it depends.

My parents friends had a pub in Cork and had no mortgage and the family used to run it and live over it. Their overheads were small so they were able to cruise along weather it was busy or not.

2 friends of mine opened a pub (in Cork again) but their loan and staff costs are killing them. He has to work constantly to keep the punters comming in. He's 2 quiet months from closure.

Donna Ferentes

20-08-2003, 15:05

Originally posted by christonabike
(Are you allowed to hurdle the blackboard in the corner door?)

One day I'm going to forget it's there and walk right into it.

hatboy

20-08-2003, 15:13

"2 friends of mine opened a pub (in Cork again) but their loan and staff costs are killing them. He has to work constantly to keep the punters comming in. He's 2 quiet months from closure."

It's greed all the way up. Good landlords and shopkeepers just can't compete with the rents and overheads chains can take on. I know we know all this, but I'm sick of it. I don't want to be a completely anaesthetised minion in the machine.

I'm not ready for 1984 yet!

IntoStella

20-08-2003, 15:26

Originally posted by hatboy
It's greed all the way up. Good landlords and shopkeepers just can't compete with the rents and overheads chains can take on. I know we know all this, but I'm sick of it. I don't want to be a completely anaesthetised minion in the machine.

I'm not ready for 1984 yet! Well said! As for Anna Key, he's still trying to get himself ready for 1948! :D

So what can we do??? I am increasinlgy thinking it would be a good idea to produce some sort of concise newsletter about all these developments that people are so pissed off about and distribute it in the areas where these things are happening. Get people talking to each other. Even get people coming on to u75. Put out the message 'You are not alone. You are not powerless.' Try to get more people involved in the consultation process. Do a web version as well, of course. Knowledge is power and all that.

Hollis

20-08-2003, 16:35

Well I've only been there 4 or 5 times in my life - wrong end of town, but I'm really saddened by its loss. - Don't know of any other pub with quite the same selection of late night randoms.

:(

But anyone know if the premises were owned or rented? If it was fully owned, then I guess the current owner was made an offer they couldn't refuse.

playghirl

20-08-2003, 19:21

It closed before i could pay my considerable bartab!

IntoStella

20-08-2003, 20:00

Originally posted by playghirl
It closed before i could pay my considerable bartab! Bugger! I would have run one up if I'd thought I could get away with it!

playghirl

21-08-2003, 13:52

If i see sean i am sure he will ask me for it. i might get away with it though. i dont feel guilty i must have spent 7 grand there over the past 7 years.

miss FX

08-09-2003, 13:42

"So what can we do??? I am increasinlgy thinking it would be a good idea to produce some sort of concise newsletter about all these developments that people are so pissed off about and distribute it in the areas where these things are happening. "

Or a poster on the door of the Queen and on lamposts outside Dog And Living and BCycles, explaining what's going on and what the implications are, with a suggested action or a date to meet in an appropriate place to protest. It seems more people have shared the Merritt insult for too long than any other Brixton issue - all the stories I've heard about people's attempts at having parties and setting up alternative venues and fresh informal scenes squashed by them over the years . . . there seems no doubt about their evil monopolistic nature and so many people have been affected. There could be a turn-out of hundreds for this if managed the right way. Problem is, a planning meeting is not the MOST inspiring event to attend . . . Isn't there some creative way we could turn these fucking places on their heads and have some fun?

hatboy

08-09-2003, 14:17

I don't know whether the planners/licensing people are aware, but there really is an increasing number of angry, alienated people in Brixton regarding pub takeovers.

With the Hob management having left and it's future unclear that'll be another cheap place for brixton characters and locals taken away from them.

Everyone goes on about diversity and vibrant community in Brixton.

But if you take away the cheaper pubs and the places where alternative scenes develop, there won't be any new "vibrancy and diversity".

:(

Anna Key

08-09-2003, 14:52

Originally posted by hatboy
Everyone goes on about diversity and vibrant community in Brixton.

But if you take away the cheaper pubs and the places where alternative scenes develop, there won't be any new "vibrancy and diversity".:(
I think this is important. I've always seen the Merrettisation of Brixton as being a key initial stage of gentrification.

On it's own it doesn't seem to signify much: it's only a bar, after all; a tacky place for scootsticks to say "Wickid!" and "Sortid!" before disappearing back to their wealthier area of London having bought some fake drugs on Coldharbour Lane.

But Merrett provides what a sociologist might call an 'alternate cultural infrastructure' for Brixton. He infests the culturally important night-life of the neighbourhood and transforms it (in the corner he controls) into the image of the gentrifying economic and social group which he favours i.e. which he believes will most effectively line his pocket. The local businessman who called recently for the return of SUS is coming from a similar direction.

They want to change Brixton into a district in which they can make more money. They spin this (basically venal and self-serving) desire into wanting 'progress' and 'change for the better.' Naturally those who oppose their plans are slandered as small-c conservatives.

It's where money and culture meet in Brixton and something nasty is happening. I noticed with the recent business-led Brixton Expo (which was great in some ways) that Brixton's rich political history was largely ignored, in favour of market stalls selling ethnic knick-knacks. A creative and cultural Brixton: code for a South London ethnic Disney World?
"So what can we do??? I am increasinlgy thinking it would be a good idea to produce some sort of concise newsletter about all these developments that people are so pissed off about and distribute it in the areas where these things are happening. "
This is a good idea. Gentrification battles are going on all over Brixton. From colonising nightclubs to gated security estates for the rich to flogging off social housing to closing the cheap boozers. It all needs to be brought together. So many people are involved in local campaigns and so many people care with a passion. They shouldn't be isolated. Watch this space.

William of Walworth

08-09-2003, 18:02

Originally posted by hatboy
With the Hob management having left and it's future unclear that'll be another cheap place for brixton characters and locals taken away from them.
:(

I may have missed other information on Urban about this :confused: but are you able to say anything more about these Hob changes hatboy? Or anyone?

Aitch

08-09-2003, 18:25

The management have left the Hob for sunny Torquay. By the looks of it there will be new management I heard it might be the assistant manger. Things will stay preety much the same I expect as its still owned by the same brewery anyone new might make a few changes to music policy or promotions but thats about all I think

chazegee

09-09-2003, 09:12

:( My fave pub:(

porno thieving gypsy

09-09-2003, 10:16

fingers crossed your right Aitch.......

playghirl

13-09-2003, 15:23

i hadnt heard anything about the hob..but then i havent been there for a few weeks.

suzee blue cheese

13-09-2003, 18:57

Management in the Hob has changed several times over the past 10 years so. Improvements such as there have been have been good ones eg car park transformation into a beer garden. With any luck it will continue to be run along the same lines.

IntoStella

15-09-2003, 12:09

Interestingly, there is a theme emerging here viz the Queen and the Hob, as there was a former Irish landlord of the George Canning who left soon after being given a vicious beating in the pub. IIRC (Mike?) it was sold to Wychwood and became the Hob not long after.

Unconnected -- or would developers really sink that low to get their hands on potentially lucrative local boozers? Not insinuating, just asking. :)

Mr Retro

01-10-2003, 08:44

Well I pass the Queen every couple of days and it looks about a week away from re-opening. Go up and have a look in if your passing, the windows aren't painted over or curtained while they rennovate.

They don't seem to have done very much to it, except perhaps put in new bars, as they look new, but I might be wrong as my forays into the Queen were never with less than a skinfull on board.:o

As the work they have done is minor, and could have been completed more quickly, this leads me to believe that they will be attempting to change the crowd that drinks (drank?) in there. It's a well used tactic employed to clear out regulars by shutting down their local for as long as it takes them to get established elsewhere.

I might be wrong so I'll reserve comment until the bar actually opens again, but I bet I'm right.

Robinson

13-10-2003, 20:03

So after Bradys it was the Queens after the Queens it's - well which pub now picks up the baton? Windmill I suppose? Any other nominations?

academia

13-10-2003, 21:51

What, baton for the last 'real' pub in Brixton?

Robinson

14-10-2003, 20:59

yeh the last real pub in Brixton

editor

14-10-2003, 21:12

Que?! There's still loads of fine pubs in and around Brixton...

christonabike

15-10-2003, 08:22

Absolutely

IntoStella

15-10-2003, 09:04

Last ''real'' pub that stays open late? Well, there is the Windmill, and I s'pose the Hobgoblin could loosely be described as ''real" (more so than when it first opened in a blaze of theme pub bric-a-brac hellishness, anyway), but they are a bit of a trek if you really want to go for just one more quick pint and then home because you've got to go to work in the morning.

The Queen was sorely missed at the end of isvicthere's bitrthday evening last week, though his spirited rendition of Pretty Vacant (twice) nearly made up for it. ;) :D

Donna Ferentes

15-10-2003, 09:09

The only sense in which the Hobgoblin is real is the sense in which it does not appear to be a hologram.

editor

15-10-2003, 09:11

Originally posted by IntoStella
Last ''real'' pub that stays open late? Thing is that much of the appeal of the Queens was it's 'jazz' approach to licensing laws - not many people I knew drank there during normal drinking hours, preferring equally 'real' pubs like the Albert, Effra etc.

I loved it as a late night venue with a terrific, Bradys-esque atmosphere on some weekends, but it wasn't my choice for a 'regular' night in the pub.

If people had liked the Queens enough to drink there during regular licensing hours, perhaps the pub may not have had to change hands...

IntoStella

15-10-2003, 09:23

Originally posted by Justin
The only sense in which the Hobgoblin is real is the sense in which it does not appear to be a hologram. Holographic pubs! Now there's a thought. They could wink out of existence the minute a patrol car approached. Mind you, the sight of lots of drunk people standing around on an empty plot, trying to look innocent, might give the game away. Assuming you could get drunk on holographic beer, that is.

corporate whore

15-10-2003, 09:28

Well, there is the Windmill, and I s'pose the Hobgoblin ... but they are a bit of a trek

all depends where you live - Queens is a trek from me, but the Hob's close enough.

IntoStella

15-10-2003, 09:30

Originally posted by editor
not many people I knew drank there during normal drinking hours, preferring equally 'real' pubs like the Albert, Effra etc.
Guilty as charged, M'lud. Unlike Anna Key, I cannot claim to have ever been a salt-of-the-earth, queueing outside at 11 in the morning, ''real'' Queen loyal. ;)

But I'd have thought it likely that the Queen sold more booze after 11pm than many local boozers sell during licensing hours! It was usually pretty lively, especially at weekends, though I think business was tailing off towards the end. Perhaps its regular clientele decamped to Living bar? ;) ;) :D

LDR

15-10-2003, 11:06

From what I remember, The Queens had a great selection of Country and Irish songs on their jukebox. :)

I'd only been there two or three times but always had a great time there.

IntoStella

15-10-2003, 11:22

Originally posted by Scott
From what I remember, The Queens had a great selection of Country and Irish songs on their jukebox. :) Including The Green Fields of France (http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~sshorlin/macbride3.html) -- guaranteed to bring a tear to your nose after a few too many ales.

There can't have been many pubs with that on the jukebox.

Mr Retro

15-10-2003, 11:38

That must be the most abused song that is sung in a sing-song.

Some idiot who doesn't know the words starts off and sings one verse badly allowing it to fizzle out after the first chorus ... :mad:

IntoStella

15-10-2003, 11:41

Originally posted by Mr Retro
Some idiot who doesn't know the words starts off and sings one verse badly allowing it to fizzle out after the first chorus ... :mad: That'd most probably be me. :o :o :o ;)

IntoStella

15-10-2003, 11:43

"Did they beat the drum slowly, did they dah de dah lowly,
Did they dah dee dee dah as they lowered you down.
And did the band play the Last post and chorus.
Dah dee dah dee the 'Flowers of the forest'."

(Sorry, meant to add that to the last post, pardon the pun. :p)

hatboy

15-10-2003, 11:50

Originally posted by Justin
The only sense in which the Hobgoblin is real is the sense in which it does not appear to be a hologram.

Too rough for you dear. :p

I'm not sure the Albert is especially "real". (Whatever the hell that is). Isn't it characterised by white, politically left-leaning 30-somthing Independent readers?

People like us??

Mr Retro

15-10-2003, 11:53

LMAO :D @ IS

You can tell if the person singing it is going to know more than a verse if they know the line "and did the fifes play the flowers of the forest.

Other oversung songs battered to death include The Wild Rover, Dublin in the rare ole Times and Spancil Hill. :mad: ;)

Anna Key

15-10-2003, 11:57

Originally posted by hatboy
white
Right
politically left-leaning
Right
30-somthing
Wrong
Independent readers
Wrong

50% :p

I think the Hob's a horrible place late at night. Repellant music played far too loud. The neighbours should get a noise abatement notice served double-quick pronto.

At least Shaun at the Queen didn't ram his Green Fields of France up his customers' arses (not that many would have noticed had he done so).

LDR

15-10-2003, 12:02

Originally posted by IntoStella
Including The Green Fields of France (http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~sshorlin/macbride3.html) -- guaranteed to bring a tear to your nose after a few too many ales.

There can't have been many pubs with that on the jukebox.

That song can bring a lump to my throat even if I'm stone cold sober.

For the record, my local in the Eastend has it on the jukebox too. ;)

Donna Ferentes

15-10-2003, 12:04

Originally posted by Mr Retro
Other oversung songs battered to death include The Wild Rover, Dublin in the rare ole Times and Spancil Hill.I was once in a pub in Aylesbury where nearly every song on the jukebox was called Rose of something. Given that and the formica tables, it may have been the worst pub I've ever been in.

Oh yes, and when you hear lines like:

I remember Dublin city
In the fine old days

you do tend to comment

1. No you don't
2. they weren't particularly fine.

is fine, isn't it? I'm doingntuis from suppressed memory.]

editor

15-10-2003, 12:07

Originally posted by hatboy
I'm not sure the Albert is especially "real". ( It's a pub.
It sells beer.
It's not cod-Irish.
It's not run by an uber-chain who have inflicted some horrendous theme on it.
Its name doesn't change every few years.
It doesn't have DJs 'spinning' the latest banging 'choons'.
It is friendly. Very friendly.
People chat there.
It is not non-smoking.
It doesn't serve up nouveau cuisine or sell itself as a 'family-orientated experience'.
It has a fiercely protective and loyal clientèle.
People know the landlords.
The Stella tastes fine.

Sure sounds like a 'real' pub to me.

hatboy

15-10-2003, 12:11

Yeah AK, I thought maybe the Independent wasn't it. I only get TV Quick and Zipper. :)

I know you love the Albert Mike. I find it a bit too dominated by the crowd I describe (of which you could say I am a part). I still like it in other ways tho. The new landlords have done a great job in making it more individual and bringing in more events.

Don't start on the HOB AK. Love it or hate it it's one of the few down to earth places left with a really varied crowd of, on a good night, DSS ravers and lunatics.

Mr Retro

15-10-2003, 12:21

Can't remember it either but it's a mawkish lament a guy writes about dublin changing.

It's sung by pissed up North Dubs who'll claim to have been in school with Flann O'Brien and actually were his muse.

EbonyLC

15-10-2003, 12:26

The Hob has more of a mixture of cultures which is good.
But
me and another Urbanite (I won't name him) got verbally assaulted by total strangers when we were in there last Friday - which has nothing to do with the cultures and more to do with annoying b'stards being allowed in :(

The Albert doesn't have music blaring loudly so its nice to have a chat in there.
But
it needs more of an eclectic mix of people.

So its hard to say which is best :confused:

hatboy

15-10-2003, 12:31

"it needs more of an eclectic mix of people". Exactly.

"verbally assautled" :rolleyes:

By an oxymoron by any chance? Or some other moron?

Brixton Hatter

15-10-2003, 13:13

Into stella wrote
"So what can we do??? I am increasinlgy thinking it would be a good idea to produce some sort of concise newsletter about all these developments that people are so pissed off about and distribute it in the areas where these things are happening. Get people talking to each other. Even get people coming on to u75. Put out the message 'You are not alone. You are not powerless.' Try to get more people involved in the consultation process. Do a web version as well, of course. Knowledge is power and all that."

I think this is a really good idea IS. I had a similar idea about a year or so ago when the new Tesco near me on Tulse Hill opened and it pi$$ed me off for a load of reasons. I even did some work on what it's content could be (local issues, planning etc). I suppose I was kind of inspired by the idea of the South London Stress (anyone remember that?)

If you (or anyone else) is seriously interested in this, please PM me cos I'd be quite up for doing it with a little bit of help.

BH

hatboy

15-10-2003, 13:18

I think I gave my copies of the South London Stress and the Battle for Effra Parade to Mike. Mike - for Brixton history could you please find them and scan them for the site. I may have more SLS as well. :)

editor

15-10-2003, 13:32

Originally posted by hatboy
I think I gave my copies of the South London Stress and the Battle for Effra Parade to Mike. Mike - for Brixton history could you please find them and scan them for the site. I may have more SLS as well. :) You gave me a copy of the 121 street party invite which I've already scanned in and attached to the 121 article on the site.

The only other thing you gave me was 'Remember Effra Parade' - a 10 page pamphlet which is, in parts unreadable, although one or two of the cartoons might be usable with much photoshoppery.

Brixton Hatter

16-10-2003, 13:03

I've got some copies of the South London Stress somewhere - I'll have a look for them.

IntoStella

16-10-2003, 16:52

It's bloody quiet in the Brixton Forum today. :eek: :eek: :eek: No posts for hours.

Is everyone on strike or summat??

lang rabbie

16-10-2003, 17:08

!I think it was just shock that there were so many posters with an unhealthy interest in the Mitford sisters. :) Bourgeois deviationists

Donna Ferentes

16-10-2003, 17:13

Originally posted by IntoStella
Is everyone on strike or summat?? Well I hope Brixton library was on strike, which would have inhibited the posting activities of some people...

William of Walworth

16-10-2003, 23:22

Originally posted by lang rabbie
!I think it was just shock that there were so many posters with an unhealthy interest in the Mitford sisters**. :) Bourgeois deviationists

**Call it an anxiety to disprove unwelcome truths ... ;)

Plus being "on" my second week of "Jury Service++"

++Discharged a little early ... :) :cool:

Minnie_the_Minx

17-10-2003, 12:00

So has the Queen's reopened yet? (Just wondering when my local is going to get rid of the Queen's refugees:D )

Mr Retro

17-10-2003, 12:18

The Queen re-opens at lunch time today. I'll probably be going for a pint there tonight to see what it's like.

Minnie_the_Minx

17-10-2003, 12:20

Let's hope the old locals still like it then:D

Mr Retro

20-10-2003, 10:26

I had a few pints in the 'new' Queen last night. We were in the corner part. It's been painted, had a few leather couches added which suit the place, and some light coloured tables and chairs which don't. There is a big screen, table footie and a 'retro' games table.

The choice of drinks is terrible. It was very quiet so can't comment on the punters.

All in all though I think it's good and i'd go there for a night now, rather than pitch up at 12.30 when you have no other option.

hatboy

20-10-2003, 15:01

I've already heard a couple of Irish guys saying that it's not much good anymore. You have to pay for drinks and go home at closing time now. Fucking rubbish.

:eek: ;)

Mr Retro

20-10-2003, 15:54

LMAO

When they flashed the lights last night at 10.40 there was a shocked gasp from the punters.

Minnie_the_Minx

20-10-2003, 16:01

One of the Irish regulars there told me that new management has already barred them (or rather not let them in!)

hatboy

20-10-2003, 19:29

So, almost nowhere cheap or free to go and drink on a weekend late night in Brixton now..... and no main political party reflecting the desires of the ordinary voter who'd have voted Labour years ago.

It's part of the same thing. We're all middle-class now? .... Yeah right! Except for the people with nowhere to go and no-one to vote for.

IntoStella

21-10-2003, 11:23

Originally posted by Minnie_the_Minx
One of the Irish regulars there told me that new management has already barred them (or rather not let them in!) SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Time for a bunch of us to go round there and loudly demand to know what happened to the jukebox with The Fureys (http://www.halhigdon.com/greenfields/greenfields.htm) on it.

Minnie_the_Minx

21-10-2003, 11:29

The Fureys?

Lonely Boatman one of my favs

Anna Key

21-10-2003, 11:30

Ah, this is the same firm - Antic Ltd - which rents the Dogstar from Robert Harrison. Good community-minded people eh?

Minnie_the_Minx

21-10-2003, 11:33

I fucked up there. I didn't mean they barred one of my friends. He told me they barred some other guys who had previously been barred from either the Dogstar or some other pub (can't remember name) and were recognised and barred from the Queens

IntoStella

21-10-2003, 12:33

But were they barred for actually doing anything wrong or for not being a well-heeled picture of yuppietastic conformity?

If they are not letting old regulars in The Queen for being the wrong sort of customer, I am boycotting the place. (Mind you, if that was the case they most probably wouldn't let me in anyway :( :o ).

BTW is it still called The Queen? They haven't changed the name to The Ciabatta & Beamer or anything?

Donna Ferentes

21-10-2003, 12:39

No, but that's no reason to abandon it as a nickname.

By the way, the Two Woodlice is reopening. I had a flyer through the door promising me Live Sports and Karaoke. Expect new threads from me shortly complaining about how good it was in the old days.

IntoStella

21-10-2003, 12:54

So what is it called now? I'm not sure I want to know. :( :(

Donna Ferentes

21-10-2003, 12:58

Oh, same name. I mean it's a local landmark.

Minnie_the_Minx

21-10-2003, 12:58

It's now called The Queenbah

Apparently the new guv had had trouble with the guys he barred in his old pub

Sorry, don't know the full story

Brixton Hatter

21-10-2003, 13:07

"The Queenbah" - hahaha, are you serious?!!!!!! :eek: What a pretentious load of shit.

To be fair, I'll go in there have some pints and check it out for myself, but whoever changed the name to that is a real fuckwit. Just enough to put some old locals off I expect.

Anna Key mentioned Antic Ltd - they're also the people who own the East Dulwich Tavern (or "EDT" as I think it may now be known) and are building the "luxury flats" at the bottom of Tulse Hill.

The name thing is so funny - Antic Ltd are the new Labour of the pub business!

Minnie_the_Minx

21-10-2003, 13:17

Hatter

Sorry, I should have put a Smiley there.

I was taking the piss. Bah Humbug, Ah Bar, etc.

Sorry

:rolleyes: http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/grinser/grinning-smiley-019.gif

IntoStella

21-10-2003, 13:19

Min -- please tell me you're kidding. :eek: If not, soon to be the "Oh Dear, There go Our Windows Bah", I expect.

Originally posted by Brixton Hatter
Anna Key mentioned Antic Ltd - they're also the people who own the East Dulwich Tavern (or "EDT" as I think it may now be known) and are building the "luxury flats" at the bottom of Tulse Hill.

The name thing is so funny - Antic Ltd are the new Labour of the pub business! Also developing residential property in Brockley [Boring lewisham Planning App list alert!! :D ] (www.lewisham.gov.uk/planning/documents/applications/Aug2003/220803webapps.pdf+antic+lordship-lane&hl=en&start=1&ie=UTF-8[/url)They seem to taking over south London at a rate of knots. [Refrains, barely, from Godwin-busting Poland invading analogy]

Edited to add: Minnie! you MINX! :D :D

I wouldn't have put it past them.