Any ideas for the Warrior Pub? [Archive]

sun man

15-07-2003, 23:08

The Warrior public house (242 Coldharbour lane) has recently been granted a planning approval for it's re-development.

Before plans are finalised for the bar interior I would appreciate opinions from the locals or people who feel they are likely to use the pub.

Some objectives are :-

1) to ensure that it's operation resets the most recent image portrayed by the local pubs in the area

2) to provide high quality beer, service and drinks for a reasonable price.

The ground floor is set out in an L shape style, the existing bar is very impressive but may not be large enough, would people object to a new one?

Is there any particular layout or design that people would like to see inside?

Most people who walk by say it should be a wine bar, I don't know exactly what a wine bar is but I assume it's a smart pub/ bar that only serves wine/spirits/bottled beers. If there's enough call for it though, I'll be happy to make it an option.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
:)

Mrs Magpie

15-07-2003, 23:16

I thought it good when it had one of the first micro-breweries there....it was a brilliant idea, sadly ahead of its time. I live within striking distance of it. If it was a wine bar I can't say I'd spend more than a few nights a year (if that) in there....I can drink better cheaper wine at home. There's a dearth of decent real ale though, and I'd be likely to visit it more often then.
Brixton and Camberwell have trendy watering holes a-plenty. So provide something that the area lacks. There's no decent live music about (no more fucking DJ's. please) so maybe that's something worth considering.

pseudopsycho

16-07-2003, 09:52

Mrs M, what about the Windmill, there's always decent live music on there - nearly every night in fact. Agree that the last thing we need is another trendy bar, too many around as it is. As long as it serves a decent pint of guinness (or maybe a proper stout - Black Mass, Oysters or something) I'll be happy. PS no piped in pop music.

Mrs Magpie

16-07-2003, 09:57

I was more thinking of the Loughborough Junction area. The Hero of Switzerland on Loughborough Road occasionally has live music, but not often. The Windmill is not by any stretch of the imagination local to me......my nearest pubs are the Angel, the Albert, and the Warrior........

editor

16-07-2003, 10:02

The area around Loughborough Junction desperately needs rejuvenation. I don't think a nobby wine bar is going to be much help to the community: if I were to take charge of the pub (unlikely, granted), I'd try and set up an open, friendly pub with an agenda to promote local talent.

There's tons of gifted people living in the area, so I'd look to having poetry/spoken word/rap nghts, performance, local bands, film etc with a cafe feel during the day.

A kind of Albert-meets-Windmill-meets-Lounge cafe-meets
Brixton Rocks (http://www.urban75.org/brixton/features/rocks.html), if you will....

pseudopsycho

16-07-2003, 10:04

Fair point, just have great memories of the place from when I first moved to the area. Looks like a few more places to add to my pub map of Brixton!

hatboy

16-07-2003, 11:36

In a hurry but afew point:

Firstly, terrific if it stays a pub, I thought it was already a gonner.

2) Keep the historic internal woodwork and the "Brixton Brewery" sign above the bar. You asked if people would object to it's removal. Well, I would. So few pubs have the Victorian details in now that they're worth preserving. Maybe you'll have to move it about abit, but PLEASE DO NOT chuck it.

3) Wine bar! What an absurd, tacky, dated, 80s idea. What the junction needs is a good, solid, welcoming traditional pub. Stylish enopugh to get youngsters in, traditional enough for old people who want a quiet pint or the old bloke who play dominoes (in the Green Man for instance before it got fucked up).

4) So please make this a pub that welcomes the local community. you can have a decent "pub" and the occasional loud or live, late night event in one thing. But please, NOT another naff 7-nights aweek DJ Bar.

5) It's a tough litle area. You'll need a manager who knows the area, cares about it and has the abilty to stop the place being over-run with dealers (I'm not against weed as people know, but there's some rough lads round LJ).

6) Good luck. :)

IntoStella

16-07-2003, 11:48

I'm over the moon that there is a chance for the Warrior to be restored to its rightful function and not made into flats, which would only add to the area's decline.

Following on from what others have said, I think a no-nonsense pub with some real ales, live music and good, simple, affordable hot meals would be fantastic.

"What the junction needs is a good, solid, welcoming traditional pub.", as HB said.

Maybe Albert-meets-Windmill-meets certain elements of the Beehive -- its inclusiveness, friendliness, guest beers and cheap food, though not its lingering aroma of stale-beery carpet and old men's trousers! :D

(TBH, I think what you can actually smell when you go in the Beehive is Anna Key! :p :D )

Shelly P

16-07-2003, 12:40

I don't post on the brixton boards much, but I just wanted to say I'd be delighted if this place was reopened. I used to go there when it was 'The Junction' and, as I live just about a 2 mintues walk from it, it was my most local pub by a long way. I'm sick of having to walk either to The Albert (which seems a long way for a 'local) or occasionally to the (bit pricey and also not particularly near Cambria for a pint. And walking past the closed down trio of The Warrior, Green Man and the ? bar (does anyone know what is going on with that place?) is really depressing and does nothing for the area.

As others have said - no, please not a wine bar! For me, a decent, welcoming, unpretenious pub - which takes care to pour a decent pint - would be ideal. Too often it seems that the pipes haven't been cleaned for god know how long and consequently the beer tastes rank (see The Coast Bar further down Coldharbour lane for an extreme example!)

Is a late licence being considered for this place or not?

aurora green

16-07-2003, 12:57

I also think its great news that the Warrior is opening up as a pub again. We really need ammenities and stuff happening around here,
but please, no poncy wine bar, it'll attract the wrong sort, who'll piss off again very quickly, ditto disco bar.

As others have said, what we need is a good welcoming, community minded pub, reasonable prices, nice Sunday lunches, friendly.
I also think the idea of showcasing local talent is really good, and could really work both for you and the community.

corporate whore

16-07-2003, 12:59

I rarely go to the LJ despite living but a 10 minute stroll away - a mate lives near the Cambria, so I go there occassionally.

Aurora Green said: good welcoming, community minded pub, reasonable prices, nice Sunday lunches, friendly.

Totally agree!

edgarlesty

16-07-2003, 14:35

...as someone who works around the corner I'd just love to see it open again in more or less any shape or form (tho' a wine bar would be stretching it admittedly...:eek: )

...ditto Hatboy on the Victoriana, a recent CAMRA study on pub interiors (aimed at preserving around 500 genuine interiors nationwide) only found 247 original, historic (not sure what dates qualify as this...but let's say pretty old!) in the whole country -
report here...

http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowDoc&DocID=4681

so every bit should be preserved if possible.

and ale, I like ale please (but no beards, sandals or morris-dancing)

:D

sun man

16-07-2003, 14:50

Thanks for your thoughts they are duly noted.

Feedback is over-ridingly in support of a Pub rather than Wine Bar. Which is definitely my preferred option.

Really want to create a comfortable pub & bar lounge, with stage area for local talent. Endeavour to keep it's original Victorian charm.

Hope you look forward and frequent the new Warrior that will serve as a quality watering hole for the decent folks of Brixton/LJ.

Thanks for comments on well-needed management. We have this covered!

editor

16-07-2003, 14:54

You might be interested in seeing what that particular past of Loughborough Junction used to look like:

Then and Now (http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/loughborough.html)

Mrs Magpie

16-07-2003, 14:54

Hoorah!
You will of course have to pass the all-important and rigorous Mrs M loo test......
:)

IntoStella

16-07-2003, 14:57

This calls for a celebration! Hic! :D

Stig

16-07-2003, 18:12

I'm with hatboy and others who are anti wine bar and pro pub.

If it was a trad pub with good beer (important!) and a good mix of peeps then I'd come out of area to visit :)

W of W

Carageto

17-07-2003, 11:21

I live near the Angel and have been trying to think where the Warrior Pub is and for the life of me I just can't picture it :confused:. Could some please enlighten me. Cheers

hatboy

17-07-2003, 11:24

It was last open as "The Junction" dance bar. Near Green Man, slightly towards Brixton on the other side.

IntoStella

17-07-2003, 11:39

So has it definitely still got its original (Victorian?) fittings? It could be absolutely lovely if it has.

john x

17-07-2003, 11:41

Originally posted by Stig

If it was a trad pub with good beer (important!) and a good mix of peeps then I'd come out of area to visit :)

W of W

There is definitely a need for a good traditional pub in Brixton. I spent many happy hours in there when it used to have the micro-brewery next door. A wine bar would be a very, very bad idea.

Do we have a timescale for this?

john x

Mrs Magpie

17-07-2003, 11:47

john x

17-07-2003, 11:52

Originally posted by Mrs Magpie
Please get rid of the exterior black paint too......

It used to be a nice shade of dark green with the name picked out in gold, if I remember correctly.

I'd love to see that pub back in business, not least because of the good it would do for Loughborough Junction.

john x

IntoStella

17-07-2003, 12:17

Originally posted by Mrs Magpie
.and please don't change the name from the Warrior, I hate landmark names changing. Couldn't agree more, especially in the light of the Granville Arcade/Brixton Village fiasco.

....Or if you wanted to imbue the place with a softer, more Guardian-readery image, you could always subtly change the name to The Worrier. ;) ;)

Mr Retro

17-07-2003, 13:12

A wine bar would be a very, very bad idea.

A pub selling good wine though, would be a very good idea.

Donna Ferentes

18-07-2003, 10:19

I'd like to see it sold by the flagon.

Mr Retro

18-07-2003, 12:29

Originally posted by Justin
I'd like to see it sold by the flagon.

Indeed, and drunk from a clay cup.

IntoStella

18-07-2003, 15:56

Originally posted by Justin
I'd like to see it sold by the flagon. At a farthing a throw. Or possibly a groat.

tarannau

18-07-2003, 18:24

http://mirror.surprise.com/images/ideas/2020-01.jpg

Best of luck with regenerating the Warrior fella - sounds like you've got a good things in store.

Beer me!
:)

Giles

25-07-2003, 18:17

Presumably since the rest of the building above and to the side of the pub is going to be flats, it won't be able to have a late license like it did when it was "The Junction"?

Giles..

Mrs Magpie

26-07-2003, 09:38

Isn't that the 'Green Man'?

Giles

26-07-2003, 11:05

The plans, according to the agenda document on Lambeth councils web site, a copy of which can now be found at:

http://tinyurl.com/i4e8

involves making the upper floors into flats, keeping the ground floor as a pub, and building more flats in a new extension on one side.

If anyone knows differently please feel free to correct me, I'm just going on the council's planning documents.

That's for The Warrior / Junction, not The Green Man. The Green Man is just going to be residential - no pub or shops or anything else at all.

Giles..

Mrs Magpie

26-07-2003, 11:07

No, I've got my pubs confused.....thanks for clearing that up, Giles.

hatboy

26-07-2003, 13:00

"That's for The Warrior / Junction, not The Green Man. The Green Man is just going to be residential - no pub or shops or anything else at all".

That is the plan. We've talked about this alot on here. Without going thru it all again, the above is a VERY POOR planning decision. If the pub has to go the ground floor MUST remain as shop units. Once gone, they never get put back.

pooka

26-07-2003, 13:09

The Springfield on the corner of Solon/Kepler, currently boarded up, also has an application to develop as a pub with flats above. I think in this instance its to rebuild.

It struck me as strange, I'd have thought unless the pub is very restrained and keen on getting people out and away at closing time, the flats above wouldn't be that atractive. I know someone who bought a flat over what was a very traditional pub in Clerkenwell, spent a lot gutting it and fitting it out. The pub changed hands and was turned into a style bar, and their life became hell - they had to sell up in the end.

I have heard that sometimes a pub/bar is included in the planning application just to keep the usage open - whether or not the intention is develop it as such. (Though that's clearly not the case with the Warrior).

Mr Retro

28-07-2003, 15:55

The Springfield has the potential to be a top pub. It's huge with room for a beer garden and everything.

It was a shithole before it closed but the customers were a good bunch. It was the oil and water mix of being both an Irish and a Chelsea pub. When Chelsea were playing the landlady would do a buffet and everybody would get pissed and dance around to rebel irish songs.

I would give anything to own that pub but the last occupants were too lazy to make a go of it. Used to annoy me.

Mrs Magpie

28-07-2003, 16:20

The name probably didn't help.....the Springfield was also the name for a large local mental Hospital......closed now, or 're-branded'.

Mr Retro

28-07-2003, 16:30

I didn't realise. How apt.

Maggot

05-08-2003, 15:28

Originally posted by sun man

Really want to create a comfortable pub & bar lounge, with stage area for local talent. Endeavour to keep it's original Victorian charm.

Hope you look forward and frequent the new Warrior that will serve as a quality watering hole for the decent folks of Brixton/LJ.

Respect to Sun Man for listening to local opinion and trying to give people what they want!

:) :)

When will it open?

THE WARRIOR

12-08-2003, 17:25

Originally posted by hatboy
"That's for The Warrior / Junction, not The Green Man. The Green Man is just going to be residential - no pub or shops or anything else at all".

That is the plan. We've talked about this alot on here. Without going thru it all again, the above is a VERY POOR planning decision. If the pub has to go the ground floor MUST remain as shop units. Once gone, they never get put back.

As I previously commented on the original plans for the Green Man, I have received notification of a new application. This one incorporates the 2 shops next door in Coldharbour Lane, and puts a mansard floor on top so they are able to squeeze 12 flats out of the site.

BUT....

They are doing nothing to enhance/upgrade the existing shops - they just remain as is. The ground floor of the Green Man remains a flat - with the room on the corner being a bedroom - some location!

The plans etc are at the Planning office and I guess will be in the Tate Library for viewing within a week or 2.

There is a crude computer generated image which is dishonest. It avoids showing the mansard roof, and shows those big curly brass lights hanging down at intervals and shining on the non existant fascia to the pub - presumably to remind people of its heritage - but crap if you want to sleep in that bedroom on the corner.

If they are amalgamating with next door, and adding a mansard roof, given that the permission was only granted originally against all of Lambeths policies to protect business/retail uses, to rid the site of its past history, can we not now lobby to get back a retail/pub use to the ground floor and insist upon upgrading the adjacent shops in return for allowing the mansard and redevelopment above the shops?

I will be writing - details are as follows: application number 03/02058/FUL. Aimee Doig is the Planning Case Officer (7926 1000)

There is no proposal to give anything back to the community - because the number of units is below the threshold - there is not even a requirement for affordable housing.

hatboy

12-08-2003, 17:32

Please everybody tell everyone they know in LJ or near to take MR WARRIOR's advice above and write in about this. Otherwise you'll lose the Green Man as a pub/bar, or at least shops, for ever.

To make it easier Mr Warrior, could you put up the full contact details here. And if you can be bothered, a model letter people can copy.

:)

THE WARRIOR

12-08-2003, 17:53

I WILL TRY AND POST A MODEL LETTER FOR ADAPTION WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS - BUT DO HAVE A LOOK AT THE SCHEME - YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE TO LOOK AT A SCHEME FOR 1 CAMBRIA ROAD SUBMITTED BY THE BEAUMONT BROTHERS - WHO I KNOW HAVE AN ILLUSTRIOUS FOLLOWING IN THIS FORUM. IT IS BASICALLY A PLAN TO STICK A 4 BED HOUSE IN THE BACK GARDENS OF 4 OR 5 TERRACE HOUSES WHICH FRONT COLDHARBOUR LANE AND ARE FILLED TO THE GILLS WITH STUDENTS. I GUESS IF THE FRONT GARDENS ARE ANYTHING TO GO BY THERE IS LITTLE LOSS BOTANICALLY AT THE REAR BUT HELL ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF DEVELOPING IN GARDENS AND TO PROPERTIES WHICH THEY OWN AND CANNOT EVEN MAINTAIN WHICH SUCKS.

THERE MAYBE WIDER ISSUES WE CAN USE THIS APPLICATION FOR TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THEIR RACHMAN LIKE WAYS.

APPLIC NO. 03/01795/OUT SARAH JENKIN IS THE CASE OFFICER

hatboy

12-08-2003, 17:57

Hey, not too many caps please. It really comes across as shouting.

What's the address to write to?

john x

12-08-2003, 20:54

Originally posted by hatboy
Please everybody tell everyone they know in LJ or near to take MR WARRIOR's advice above and write in about this.

Have just done it. (Told people, and wrote in!)

john x

THE WARRIOR

14-08-2003, 17:24

Planning Services
Acre House
10 Acre Lane
LONDON SW2 5LL

Model letter should always include the planning reference and the title of the building and development as well (in case there was a typo in the referenced)

Best comments are factual, or refer to use/environment and do not get too subjective about design - crap quality of design is worth commenting on.

hatboy

18-08-2003, 13:50

If you want to object to the loss of shops/venue at Loughborough Junction, I've put together a letter you can use from the above posts:

Planning Services
Acre House
10 Acre Lane
LONDON SW2 5LL

Attn: Aimee Doig, Planning Case Officer
Application number 03/02058/FUL

Dear Aimee,

I write to object to the loss of ground floor retail space (or bar venue) at the former Green Man public house, Coldharbour Lane.

The applications for this property are doing nothing to enhance/upgrade the existing shops - they just remain as is. The ground floor of the Green Man would be lost as retail or venue and becomes a flat - with the room on the corner being a bedroom - some location!

In the plans there is a crude computer generated image which is dishonest. It avoids showing the mansard roof, and shows those big curly brass lights hanging down at intervals and shining on the non-existent fascia to the pub - presumably to remind people of its heritage - but crap if you want to sleep in that bedroom on the corner.

If they are amalgamating with next door, and adding a mansard roof, given that the permission was only granted originally against all of Lambeth’s policies to protect business/retail uses, to rid the site of its past history, can we not now get back a retail/pub use to the ground floor and insist upon upgrading the adjacent shops in return for allowing the mansard and redevelopment above the shops?

Sincerely, etc

Snail mail to the Acre Lane address above.

:)

hatboy

17-10-2003, 14:06

Bump - relevant to current LJ debate. :)

editor

14-03-2006, 16:05

pootle

14-03-2006, 16:14

Which one is the Warrior? :confused:

Is it the Junction?

sun man

14-03-2006, 19:57

This post filed under, "whatever happened to...."

The original poster was an estate agent and has never returned to these boards since :(

I went past the Warrior last week and there's still a load of building going on and no immediate prospect of the pub opening..

Sadly the building contractor employed to undertake the construction works for these properties folded over Christmas. The two properties had lots of hidden defects that cost the company everything, they also completed only 4 months work in 12 months of the time. The owner is now completing the works with another contractor.

Same scheme as before, just a couple of years late! :)

john x

14-03-2006, 21:12

Two and a half years .....

between posts. That is some bump! :eek:

john x

editor

14-03-2006, 21:39

The two properties had lots of hidden defects that cost the company everything, they also completed only 4 months work in 12 months of the time. The owner is now completing the works with another contractor. Ah you're still here! Nice one!

So what exactly is happening to the Warrior? Looks to me like they've rebuilt the entire building.

And what's the scoop with the Warrior/Green Man?
Are they really going to reopen?

Oh, and the reason I bumped the thread was because I posted up a new 'then and now' that featured the Warrior. It really brings into focus how much Loughborough Junction has declined.

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/images/loughborough12.jpg
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/images/loughborough13.jpg

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/loughborough8.html
Lost pubs: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lost-pubs.html

guinnessdrinker

15-03-2006, 10:35

.

Sadly the building contractor employed to undertake the construction works for these properties folded over Christmas. The two properties had lots of hidden defects that cost the company everything, they also completed only 4 months work in 12 months of the time. The owner is now completing the works with another contractor.

Same scheme as before, just a couple of years late! :)

if it's going to reopen, make sure the guinness is normal temperature, not fucking extracold. and some good real ales.....

Rushy

15-03-2006, 13:15

Please get rid of the exterior black paint too............it makes the area even drearier.....and please don't change the name from the Warrior, I hate landmark names changing.........if you think it's a bit macho you could always have a pubsign featuring Boudicca :)

There are few more macho than Boudicca!

Solid pubs that are also family friendly during the day are hard to find - like the Bread and Roses in Clapham Manor Street or, slightly different, Mango Landing. The Effra is a great example of a pub with lots of original features - what is great about the Effra is that it has talented musicians most nights and yet remains a 'pub with live music' rather than specifically a music venue. So a combination of those three would be great IMO!

rennie

15-03-2006, 13:25

Mango Landing is very :cool:

Giles

17-03-2006, 09:31

Some friends of mine had a look around the Warrior/ The Junction when it was up for sale, and they told me that the building was in VERY bad shape. That was what put them off buying it in the end.

I hope it works out - that area needs a decent pub.

Giles..

prunus

21-07-2006, 13:13

Continuing an occasinal series of updates to near moribund threads, I note that the Warrior is now decorated with signs advertising 1 and 2 bedroom flats 'Ready September' apparently...

editor

21-07-2006, 13:16

Went past it last night - it looks like they've completely rebuilt a great chunk of the pub.

Giles

21-07-2006, 13:58

I thought that the plan was to re-open the "Warrior" / Junction as a pub/bar, with flats above and the new bit down the side.

And the Green Man was not going to be a pub, although the ground floor bit was going to have some sort of non-residential use (shop etc)?

Giles..

ChrisSouth

21-07-2006, 15:34

I also note that the flats are for rent, not for sale.....

editor

15-03-2007, 19:09

Here's how the Warrior/Junction looks today.

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/images/brixton-mar07-35.jpg

The sign says 'for rent' and not for sale - and, you guessed it - it's "1 & 2 bedroom luxury flats'

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/images/brixton-mar07-36.jpg
Gated entrances ahoy!

More area pics: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brixton-march-07.html

ChrisSouth

16-03-2007, 07:44

[QUOTE=editor]
The sign says 'for rent' and not for sale - and, you guessed it - it's "1 & 2 bedroom luxury flats'

It's hardly likely to say 'shit flats' is it? Marketeers don't work like that.

snowy_again

16-03-2007, 09:38

And the Green Man was not going to be a pub, although the ground floor bit was going to have some sort of non-residential use (shop etc)?

Giles..

Isn't Lambeth Law Centre (or whatever its called i always forget) moving out of its currently squashed offices in the Eurolink Business centre and into what was the Green Man?

editor

16-03-2007, 09:42

It's hardly likely to say 'shit flats' is it? Marketeers don't work like that.True, but it's becoming like America where even the crappiest deli claims to serve "gourmet" food.

Giles

16-03-2007, 09:51

Isn't Lambeth Law Centre (or whatever its called i always forget) moving out of its currently squashed offices in the Eurolink Business centre and into what was the Green Man?

That rings a bell - I seem to remember it was to be something "commercial" but a bit unusual - i.e. NOT a shop.

Giles..

William of Walworth

17-03-2007, 20:49

Is that the pub sign I can see in the pic, is it definitely opening as a pub?

<wondes what their beer policy will be ;) :o >

snowy_again

18-03-2007, 01:00

Is that the pub sign I can see in the pic, is it definitely opening as a pub?

<wondes what their beer policy will be ;) :o >

Seemed to be when I drove past it before. Have to laugh at the gated bit on the left hand side though... :rolleyes:

sun man

13-10-2007, 11:21

Giles

13-10-2007, 13:30

Following a lot of helpful interest from locals it is proving difficult to get these ground floor units into use. I work for the owner of both premises and had good expectations of at least one of them going to a public house. The owner is not interested in running or managing the business but has offered both sites to the open market for over a year now. People have shown interest at times and we have tried to accomodate with donations to fit out costs etc. At the moment there is nothing solid on the table and I would be grateful for any suggestions that would help bring these prominant buildings back to life.

How much would be renting out the "pub" unit of The Warrior for, then? And what length of lease would someone have to sign to rent it?

And also: what is the deal with the noise etc from a pub v. the interests of the people living immediately above?

Are the flats rented privately, or sold off, or leased to a H.A. or something? Would any of them (esp. the ones immediately above the pub) be available to rent as part of renting the pub, so that the "landlord" and maybe some staff could live upstairs, as in the traditional pub layout?

Giles..

sun man

14-10-2007, 17:57

How much would be renting out the "pub" unit of The Warrior for, then? And what length of lease would someone have to sign to rent it?

And also: what is the deal with the noise etc from a pub v. the interests of the people living immediately above?

Are the flats rented privately, or sold off, or leased to a H.A. or something? Would any of them (esp. the ones immediately above the pub) be available to rent as part of renting the pub, so that the "landlord" and maybe some staff could live upstairs, as in the traditional pub layout?

Giles..

Hi Giles,

Thank you for your reply. The agency valuation for the annual rent of the pub is £50k, this has been reduced to £40k with rent free period in light of the fitting out costs inside. There is cerainly a lot of work to do which may be detering people from starting up a new business there.

The length of the lease is negatiable between five to twenty five years. Noise from the pub could be an issue although the highest spec ceiling possible has been installed to mitigate any noise to the flats above. We have been informed that an entertainment license cannot be issued and only low level background noise would be acceptable (there would need to be a clause in the lease allowing the owner to take action if noise or other problems from the pub were affecting residents).

The flats above are leased to HA and shorthold tenants, it would be quite easy to integrate some of the flats into the business operation. The agent says that most people are put off when they hear the words " Coldharbour Lane" mentioned. I don't think the area is as bad as people say and there shoud be a reasonable market for a pub there. I have tried two different agents and neither has had many viewings. It has been considered to fit the building out and have a management company run the business although we have been warned that you need to have good experience in the pub industry before getting involved.

editor

14-10-2007, 22:13

We have been informed that an entertainment license cannot be issued and only low level background noise would be acceptable Well that's fucked it then.

Giles

15-10-2007, 09:20

I really have doubts as to how these "pubs" that are left can be viable after the whole upstairs including the owner's accommodation have been made into flats.

The lack of "live in" accommodation, the noise restrictions, likely complaints if people were smoking and chatting outside the pub, etc make it very difficult to see how it could work as a pub or bar, really.

Giles..

citydreams

15-10-2007, 10:48

The agency valuation for the annual rent of the pub is £50k.

What's that, around 100 barrels a year? Or 3,600 gallons of beer just to break even!

Some recent adds:
Acre Lane, Brixton, SW2
Shop premises with A3 use.
Currently trading but vacant shortly.
1,000 sq.ft. with planning permission for extension at the rear for a further 500 sq.ft.
Rent - £25,000 per annum exclusive.
Acre Lane, Brixton, SW2
A2 premises but client will consider other uses.
1,000 sq.ft. Rent - £15,000 per annum exclusive.

http://hortonhammell.co.uk/hortonhammellpropertysolutionslimited/id2.html

christonabike

15-10-2007, 12:19

A grand a week in rent and you are not allowed an entertainment licence?

I would be grateful for any suggestions that would help bring these prominant buildings back to life.

only low level background noise would be acceptable

Here's one, renegotiate so an entertainment licence could be got

And, in the second quote; if it was going to be a pub/bar, how can low level background noise ever be achieved?

editor

15-10-2007, 12:44

If there's no entertainment licence, 50k rent and an insistence that noise has be kept to mouse like levels, there's no fucking chance that it's going to come back as a viable Brixton pub.

But then maybe that's what the developers wanted anyway.

Giles

15-10-2007, 13:08

christonabike

15-10-2007, 13:08

But then maybe that's what the developers wanted anyway.

You've lived around here a while, ain't yer

It'll be a ...................... COSTCUTTER!

:D

sun man

15-10-2007, 13:25

As well as these two former pubs, I am aware of several others where this pattern has been followed: take old pub complete with several floors of run-down owners accommodation / staff accommodation / former B & B rooms upstairs, get permish to turn everything except the "pub" bit into flats.

Then see if you can find someone who will run it as a pub or bar.

Fail to do so.

Can anyone think of one of these where this has actually worked? I just can't see it making sense, even if the rent was cheapish. The noise and complaints issues surely make it unviable....

Giles..

The Pembury Tavern on Amhurst Road in Hackney was developed in this way and the ground floor remained vacant for about a year. It is now a fully functional pub although it is a little strange in there without any music. The advice re the entertainments license is that the Warrior building cannot be upgraded to the quality required, the issue is with the size of the windows rather than the ceiling.

I don't really see how the entertainments license is such an issue. Recorded music can still be played but live bands and dancing is out. Are there really huge problems associated with the outside of pubs and locals, I guess so but it would normally be controlled by a good manager.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

editor

15-10-2007, 13:26

I would have been well up for putting on cabaret/spoken word/film nights at the Warrior, or even band nights if it was sufficiently soundproofed.

It's a real shame - that area is totally starved of a community boozer.

editor

15-10-2007, 13:27

T....the issue is with the size of the windows rather than the ceiling.Why not fit thick soundproofed curtains?

bouncer_the_dog

15-10-2007, 13:38

So no chance of a 24hr Trance Marathon then? (which was the last thing I went to at 'The Junction').

Turn it into a Starbucks..

editor

15-10-2007, 13:45

The Junction used to be fucking brilliant for drum'n'bass in the mid nineties.

prunus

15-10-2007, 13:48

The Junction used to be fucking brilliant for drum'n'bass in the mid nineties.

It's the only way I can describe where I live to some of my still-in-north-London friends: "It's near the old Junction, remember?" (cue misty-eyed (and brained) reminiscences).

bouncer_the_dog

15-10-2007, 14:00

I had one of the craziest nights out there ever before it shut. A friend of mine went there and someone was playing chess with a cat.

Brainaddict

15-10-2007, 14:03

I had one of the craziest nights out there ever before it shut. A friend of mine went there and someone was playing chess with a cat.
Who won?

bouncer_the_dog

15-10-2007, 14:13

TBH I don't know, but I'd rate the cats chances.

Crispy

15-10-2007, 14:15

Now I don't know whether that involves a large-scale chess board, with a piece missing so "let's use that cat. it can be a rook" or actually having a cat as an opponent. I don't know how much fun a cat would find either option, really.

Brainaddict

15-10-2007, 14:17

DJWrongspeed

15-10-2007, 14:57

Eh the Junction!, i went to a monday night club there once (hardcore) with the very elusive 'oubliette sound system' back in the mid 90s. It comprised of lot's of different collections of speakers bound together with plastic in various corners of the pub. It was a bizarre din and then aphex twin turned up and played pool. The mad eyed ozzy bar mgr couldn't hack it and about 10 turn it all off and stuck some bad house on :confused:

as for now, it would take a brave vision to open a bar/restaurant there surely?

Giles

15-10-2007, 15:24

I remember going to a morning party called XLR8 which started life at The Junction.

Hmmmmm .... people doing lines of K off the tables, everyone absolutely tw*tted, good atmosphere though, even though the place was a dump.....

Giles..

bouncer_the_dog

15-10-2007, 16:09

That sounds familiar... there was also another guy using an invisible typewriter..

brixtonvilla

15-10-2007, 18:06

FridgeMagnet

15-10-2007, 18:19

A friend of mine went there and someone was playing chess with a cat.
There's a poster on this board whom I could well imagine doing that happily for the rest of his life.

ChrisSouth

16-10-2007, 07:47

But then maybe that's what the developers wanted anyway.

That had occured to me too......

Wasn't their talk of a doctor's surgery once? Or was that just to keep us locals happy?

Giles

16-10-2007, 13:02

That sounds familiar... there was also another guy using an invisible typewriter..

Found some disturbing pictures here:

http://www.partyvibe.com/gallery/v/party/raving_mad_pictures/album181/?g2_page=1

and here:

http://www.partyvibe.com/gallery/v/party/raving_mad_pictures/album144/?g2_page=2

Happy days!

editor

16-10-2007, 16:11

Found some disturbing pictures here:Thank fuck I never went to any of those nights.
What a bunch of charlies.

Mr Retro

16-10-2007, 16:40

What a bunch of charlies.

:D

I'd love to see a night like that down the Canterbury. :D :D

Giles

16-10-2007, 16:47

Thank fuck I never went to any of those nights.
What a bunch of charlies.

Pity I couldn't find a pic of the bloke playing chess with the cat!

Giles..

Donna Ferentes

22-10-2007, 12:39

There's a poster on this board whom I could well imagine doing that happily for the rest of his life.Who me (http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.com/2007/06/purpose-of-opening-theory.html)?

bouncer_the_dog

22-10-2007, 15:01

Found some disturbing pictures here:

http://www.partyvibe.com/gallery/v/party/raving_mad_pictures/album181/?g2_page=1

and here:

http://www.partyvibe.com/gallery/v/party/raving_mad_pictures/album144/?g2_page=2

Happy days!

That looks familiar :o

The night in question is a particularly memorable one to me. I went there a few times in 98/99 and then forgot about it. Around 2000 I went there becuase I got ditch by my girlfriend at the time. I paid £12 to get in with the intention of sitting at the bar and wallowing in self pity. I got to the bar and they weren't serving alcohol!The barman said 'you could always do something eles' and then tapped his nose and winked at me. I looked round at was only at that moment I realised a) there was thumping trance music and b) it was full of sweaty people stripped to the waist with glow sticks.. exactly like the pix in the link above. As it was I decided to remonstrate with the gurning door staff to get my money back "£12 and I can't even get a drink!!".

At that moment the promoter came over to see what the fuss was and introduced himself, and got the barman to serve me from a secret bottle of Jack Daniels - and he bought me a drink. So I was able to wallow in self pity as required. After a while I decided a little dancing was in order (I was quite pissed at this point). A quite fit girl offered to sell me..DRUGS.. and to my eternal shame 'ahem' I took her up on it.

All I can say is I have never bee that fucked up before or since.. and that includes all the acid I took in the 90s. Based on reading the drugs forum here I can only assume that I had some kind of K-E combination. In actual fact just thinking about it makes me get flashbacks! Its becoming tricky to type!

The next think I know I am propped up outside the club STEAMING in the winter air so fucked up I can barely talk, and a bouncer is holding me up! It took me ages to recover enough to ask if I could go back in to which the answer was a firm NO. But then the promoter popped his head out the door and said 'are you alright mate? coming back in?' so in I went ...

Bizarrely EVERYONE said hello to me and patted me on the back.. To this day I have no idea how I managed to make friends with everyone in the place.. Appartently I was 'all over the place' and had to be carried out. It was now 7am in the morning. I spent until about 11am helping some guy do backflips off my knee ..you know where you put your hands together and he steps in them and then you lift up .. that was crazy...

The end of the story was I then went home - my friends and flatmates had thought I had been killed. I had left my jacket, mobile, wallet fags etc on one of the speakers all night in plain view - it was still there. I spent the day smoking skunk and then retired to the pub and met my now ex-girlfriend. Although I had completely forgotten about why I had gone to the place in the first place - and embarrassingly had to be told again. It was easier to take the 2nd time.

Anyway I will never forget my last trip to the Junction... I have to go and lie down now.

Giles

24-10-2007, 18:10

That looks familiar :o

The night in question is a particularly memorable one to me. I went there a few times in 98/99 and then forgot about it. Around 2000 I went there becuase I got ditch by my girlfriend at the time. I paid £12 to get in with the intention of sitting at the bar and wallowing in self pity. I got to the bar and they weren't serving alcohol!The barman said 'you could always do something eles' and then tapped his nose and winked at me. I looked round at was only at that moment I realised a) there was thumping trance music and b) it was full of sweaty people stripped to the waist with glow sticks.. exactly like the pix in the link above. As it was I decided to remonstrate with the gurning door staff to get my money back "£12 and I can't even get a drink!!".

At that moment the promoter came over to see what the fuss was and introduced himself, and got the barman to serve me from a secret bottle of Jack Daniels - and he bought me a drink. So I was able to wallow in self pity as required. After a while I decided a little dancing was in order (I was quite pissed at this point). A quite fit girl offered to sell me..DRUGS.. and to my eternal shame 'ahem' I took her up on it.

All I can say is I have never bee that fucked up before or since.. and that includes all the acid I took in the 90s. Based on reading the drugs forum here I can only assume that I had some kind of K-E combination. In actual fact just thinking about it makes me get flashbacks! Its becoming tricky to type!

The next think I know I am propped up outside the club STEAMING in the winter air so fucked up I can barely talk, and a bouncer is holding me up! It took me ages to recover enough to ask if I could go back in to which the answer was a firm NO. But then the promoter popped his head out the door and said 'are you alright mate? coming back in?' so in I went ...

Bizarrely EVERYONE said hello to me and patted me on the back.. To this day I have no idea how I managed to make friends with everyone in the place.. Appartently I was 'all over the place' and had to be carried out. It was now 7am in the morning. I spent until about 11am helping some guy do backflips off my knee ..you know where you put your hands together and he steps in them and then you lift up .. that was crazy...

The end of the story was I then went home - my friends and flatmates had thought I had been killed. I had left my jacket, mobile, wallet fags etc on one of the speakers all night in plain view - it was still there. I spent the day smoking skunk and then retired to the pub and met my now ex-girlfriend. Although I had completely forgotten about why I had gone to the place in the first place - and embarrassingly had to be told again. It was easier to take the 2nd time.

Anyway I will never forget my last trip to the Junction... I have to go and lie down now.

That is a classic Junction tale.......

Giles..