View Full Version : Brian Bows Out of Brixton
To be the police Commander for Lambeth was my career ambition from 1980 when I first served in the Borough. My fifteen months as Lambeth’s Commander were the most challenging and most fulfilling of my police service. For me it was not just a job, it was a personal commitment to those I worked for, both to the people of Lambeth and to those brave and committed men and women, the police and support staff of Lambeth. I look back on this time with enormous pride.
Were I now to return to Lambeth as the Borough Commander, certain sections of the media, whose intentions have been clear from the start, would no doubt highlight and exaggerate the challenges that Lambeth faces. I would anticipate unreasonable and unjustified attention on the work of my colleagues in the police and unfounded criticism of them should crime rise for any reason.
The Commissioner has made it clear that I should move on to other duties. Were the Commissioner and his senior colleagues to be pressurised, against their own professional judgement, into reversing their decision, I could not be sure that the London Borough of Lambeth would get the level of support from Scotland Yard that it needs and has every right to expect. My successor is more likely to secure such support.
For these reasons it is with great reluctance that I have decided it is time for me to put the needs of Lambeth before my own desire to return. However unfair and unjustified, I believe it is now in the best interests of Lambeth that I move on.
I have spent most of my twenty-six years police service working in London boroughs. Having been a commander in two different boroughs over a period of four years, I am one of the most experienced ACPO rank officers in borough policing. I can with authority say, based on the size, complexity and challenge of the job, my successor in Lambeth should be of ACPO rank.
I want to thank all my supporters for their unswerving loyalty. It was a privilege to serve you as Lambeth’s Commander. I will continue to have close links with the borough and with Brixton in particular. I hope to serve you again in the future in some other capacity. Lambeth is a wonderful place, a great Borough and I wish you all every success in the future.
Mr Retro
06-12-2002, 13:10
My first post here was to say I've never experienced anybody in a position of authority to make so much sense and my feelings have strengthened.
Good luck and thanks, but not goodbye hopefully, Brian.
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 13:16
well it's a terrible shame that things have turned out the way they have, and it angers me that as the first real authority figure with an intelligent approach to the borough's problems, you should be prevented from doing something that you clearly feel deeply.
but i understand and respect your decision and in turn wish you luck in your future. thanks for trying!
and i hope the residents of your next commission are equally appreciative....
thanks brian
As soon as someone comes along brave enough to try a radical approach to engage ALL of the community in a progressive dialogue - and starts getting results - what happens?
The fucking Daily Mail and the 'old guard' destroy it under a smokescreen of homophobia, stitch ups, misinformation and sleazy sex bribes.
...and politicians wonder why so many young people feel completely and utterly disenfranchised by the political process...
Stobart Stopper
06-12-2002, 13:24
so sorry to read this, but I know that whatever path your career takes now you will make a great success of it. Good luck, boss! You did your best, that's what matters.
Maidmarian
06-12-2002, 13:27
Tried to PM you but yer box is full !!!
So sorry about it all , but I do understand & respect your reasoning.
All the very best for the future !
why the fuck cant good things be left alone?
why do certain sections of the media destroy everything about this country?
brian paddick is a man who understood the ways of brixton. someone who took that knowledge and made things better.
someone like that should be left alone to do their job.
good luck brian http://urban75.net/ubb/icons/icon14.gif
So what now, Brian? What are your plans? Where will you be going?
Caspar Hauser
06-12-2002, 13:36
It's a sad day but I can understand your decision.
Good luck Brian and thank you. You have been an inspiration for a lot of people, myself included.
Respect to the Commander! :cool:
Originally posted by CliffChuff
Come to Hackney;)
absolutely......
Re-iterating much of the above. It is a sad day indeed, but much respect to you. All the best,
Etnea
Yeah well, you don't have a choice now do you?
Listen Brain, whatever you can do to salvage a decent
career I don't blame you for.
That's not you talking tho, that is a carefully couched press release - you're one of them now - sorry to lose you but good luck.
God I hate the Mail. Bastards.
And this whole affair has really crystalised my attitude to the police - I've less faith in them than ever. :(
Can't you leave the police and do politics or something?
- Paul
(More reasoned, less emotional response later). I'm really sad about this - for Brixton.
fudgefactorfive
06-12-2002, 14:00
Were I now to return to Lambeth as the Borough Commander, certain sections of the media, whose intentions have been clear from the start, would no doubt highlight and exaggerate the challenges that Lambeth faces. I would anticipate unreasonable and unjustified attention on the work of my colleagues in the police and unfounded criticism of them should crime rise for any reason.
This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. It's like saying that we can never have a gay prime minister because it would get other members of the Labour Party into trouble.
Hopefully you'll now get a proper job which doesn't involved being in charge of a bunch of racist murderers, and locking poor people up in concrete boxes.
Oooh dear the system you protect has screwed you, you poor thing :rolleyes: let me dry my tears...
The job of a police officer is to defend and serve the community in the detection and prevention of crime and the preservation of public order. The police operate most effectively as a body, not as individuals. The raising of any particular individuals personal profile for whatever motive is at best a distraction and at worse an obstruction. Lambeth is no different to any other inner city borough. The social problems are equal. Brian Paddicks claim to fame seems to centre around the softly softly approach in offences involving the possession of cannabis. This seems of course to have been a popular move locally but coppers are not employed to be popular they exist to enforce the law. It is the job of Parliament to decide if the possession of cannabis should be lawful or not. When laws are in place they should be enforced otherwise you risk the law appearing an ass. In a calculated move to attract publicity and raise his personal profile Paddick brought about his own demise. History shows this usually to be the end result. He did not lose his job through homophobia he was removed because he was seen in the public eye to condone criminal offences both in his professional and private life. This I am sure was not the case in reality. However because he chose to raise his own profile beyond what is normal for a police officer he has paid a price. Anything else is just sentimental nonsense
Fuck off Icepick, what the fuck do you know about it? You haven't met this bloke and I don't think you live round here do you? If not, butt out.
"All coppers are bastards" bla, bla, bla - how can that attitude ever change things?
Oh yes sorry to interrupt the mass arse-licking session hatboy.
Well I suppose if he lets off some stoners then you lot don't really care how many people his cops kills or how many kids he locks up for shoplifting/crack or whatever.
Oh yeah but crackheads are surplus :rolleyes:
Originally posted by hatboy
Fuck off Icepick, what the fuck do you know about it? You haven't met this bloke and I don't think you live round here do you? If not, butt out.
No but I have spoken to some relatives of people Brixton cops murdered. One of whom was attacked by riot cops on a demo against the killings.
So you can fuck off you squirming little brown-nose
I think this is where I came in....:cool:
Icepick: do you live in Brixton?
And are you of the opinion that 'all coppers are scum' and therefore must all be branded with the same racist brush, regardless of what the indivisuals or what the local community actually thinks?
Paddick made a real difference in Lambeth, earning the respect of a huge chunk of the community, and - to quote a black leader - "was a model of openness when it came to investigating deaths in custody".
Seeing as it's clear that Paddick's radical approach went some considerable way to bridging the traditional distrust and hate between the black community and the police, is that not a good thing?
What would you have done instead?
You see, it's easy to criticise, but coming up with real world solutions that makes the lives of the community better is a little harder.
I feel that Paddick achieved that and that's why I found myself in the (unique) position of defending a policemen.
What have you achieved? What have you done for the good of this community?
IntoStella
06-12-2002, 14:56
Brian, I'm extremely sad to hear that you've been forced to give up your dream.
But someone like you won't be kept down for long. I am sure you will re-emerge in public life some time in a role that, again, really makes a positive difference to people's lives.
Until then, I wish you all the very best.
i2s
Caspar Hauser
06-12-2002, 14:57
Just fuck off icepick!
Hatboy is really the last person who would call crackheads surplus, on the contrary. :rolleyes:
First you branded Mrs M an racist and now you are attacking hatboy. You are one stupid git, aren't you.
Brian,
I wish you all the best for your future in the police force.
FWIW: in my opinion (as an ex-stockwell park estate: tyler house resident) I think you made a real difference in Brixton to how folk saw the police. And you personally changed my mind about the role of the police and policing.
Part of the way you achieved that was by sticking your neck out and being a 'leader' not just a follower.
All the best
flygirl
icepick- you are like a small child with no manners. It is truely embarrasing.
One day iceprick you will grow up :rolleyes:
Brian, sorry to see that the bastards succeeded in grinding you down. I don’t blame you for taking this decision (though I don’t believe fully that you had a choice in the first place)
I hope you manage to find a role that both challenges and fulfils you as you work in Lambeth did.
The Met can learn a lot from this, namely how it is possible to gain the respect of a community with good, honest policing.
Good luck Brian, and remember, you may be one of ‘them’ but you’re also one of us
:)
Originally posted by flygirl
icepick- you are like a small child with no manners. It is truly embarrasing. I couldn't have put it better myself.
Oh dear how unusual, criticism's of our saviour Paddick greeted with attacks from all the regulars :rolleyes:
Okay that's cool if hatboy doesn't think crackheads are surplus. Doesn't mean he's not an arse-licker.
What have you achieved? What have you done for the good of this community
:rolleyes: Yeah sit back and I'll tell you my fucking life story.
Tell you what I haven't done: I haven't been in charge of a bunch of people who've killed 3 black guys in custody. Aw but as long as you lovely hippies get your draw without having to worry about pc plod then what does a few dead nigger matter :rolleyes:
Beach Bum
06-12-2002, 15:19
Brian, thank you for having made a difference. While the outcome is not what you had in mind, there is a positive result: the community has pulled together in an unprecedented way. You’ve also offered the public a gay role model beyond reproach.
While change is never fast or easy, you made a good start.
Stay out of trouble, cowboy.
David
;)
Good luck Brian, and remember, you may be one of ‘them’ but you’re also one of us
*retch*
Mr Retro
06-12-2002, 15:25
You've made your point Icepick. Try to be a little dignified and leave it at that.
Jessiedog
06-12-2002, 15:26
Brian was the reason I first came to this site. Sadly, as I predicted at that time, he will not be returning to his position. :(
Friz,
How long did it take for you to become such an ill-informed dickwad?
Brian,
You have probably made the right choice to bow out, you were never gonna' win against the system. Good luck with your career and all your future endeavours.
Blessings.
:)
Woof
aurora green
06-12-2002, 15:32
Whilst its true neither Paddick nor Icepick need me to stick up for them, I feel reluctantly compelled to comment.
Paddick has done a lot that is very popular within the local community, and it bad that he has been persecuted for it.
However, it is fact that people have died whilst in police custordy in Brixton, and we should never forget this.
Also anyone involved in the direct action movement will almost certainly have experienced or witnessed police brutality first hand and may find this glorification of law enforcers hard to take.
There are always two sides to every argument.
Friz and Icepick - you have a very superficial take on all this.
It's not about the cannabis policy (although that was sensible), it's about Brian being someone who was developing unprecendented trust between local people and the police.
And listen Icepick - I don't think the sun shines out of Brian's arse. I judge by what I experience, what I see, and I was impressed.
More on deaths in police custody in a moment. I'm just trying to locate a previous post.
cockneyrebel
06-12-2002, 15:40
Whatever Brian Paddick was like as an individual (and I don't know him) it makes no difference to the fact that 3 black people were murdered under his command and every one was covered up......it is also a fact that the police force is institutionally racist and used to smash up pickets and worker's movements. Let us not forget that the MET killed miners and seriously injured 1000s of them in the 1980s. They did the same at Wapping. And they enjoyed it singing songs like "Arthur Scargill pays our wages"......
The police under capitalism play a social role because people are forced to use them that way (being a vigilante is illegal) and even then Asian communities up north were forced to use self-defence (and rightly so) to defend their communities against the BNP cos the racist police force were no use and just persecuted them.....
Only the other day on London Tonight it showed members of the MET intimidating and threatening to arrest firefighters who were staging a demo......
At the end of the day the police force will ultimately be used to oppress people and protect the ruling classes. It will always be used to brutally oppress any militant worker's movements and will always be racist, sexist and homophobic and will oppress the poor cos that is the nature of the capitalist system it serves.....
And police officers, including Brian Paddick, have to take responsibility for serving in an organisation that does this....
PS B4 you ask editor I work in Brixton, am a union steward and have fought my whole life for a better system (socialism/communism).......
Originally posted by icepick
Tell you what I haven't done: That's a really pathetic cop out. ('scuse the pun) A politician would be proud of that evasion.
What's the matter, icepick - was the question too difficult or awkward for you to answer?
I took the unprecedented step of defending a copper because I felt Paddick's initiatives made a real change for the better in my community (do you live in Lambeth, by the way - you seemed to have avoided that question)
Now you tell me what practical, pragmatic solutions you've got. How would you have set about improving police/black community relations?
Oh, and post up deeply offensive shite like, "as long as you lovely hippies get your draw without having to worry about pc plod then what does a few dead nigger matter " and you'll be banned.
After you've answered my questions, of course.
If you can.
GarfieldLeChat
06-12-2002, 15:50
Originally posted by icepick
Hopefully you'll now get a proper job which doesn't involved being in charge of a bunch of racist murderers, and locking poor people up in concrete boxes.
Oooh dear the system you protect has screwed you, you poor thing :rolleyes: let me dry my tears...
you sir are a fucking cock when will you learn you teenie fucking sad ack grow up and fast.
brian very sad to hear chap, but there is always hackney or that livingstone fella needs knockin goff his pearch and then you could still have a kinda of influence and help shpa lambeth in a more centralised way. i reckon you beat livingstone hands down (and when you do, rather than if ;), it'll be the best way to say heres mud in yer eye to the hate mail)
good luck
Paddick for mayor
get's my vote.....:D
I can't find the post I was looking for unfortunately.
But, of course three deaths in police custody is three too many. Paddick himself acknowleges that. It has also been said by Lee Jasper (chair of the local community police consultative group and the London mayor's advisor on race) and others that the ensuing investigations into these deaths have been the most transparent and thorough in Brixton for a long time, if ever.
Icepick, don't talk to me about "dead n******". A friend and neighbour of mine is the cousin of Derek Bennett, the guy shot dead by police over the imitation gun/lighter incident. Even he ended up signing the petition in support of Paddick.
I've also talked to the mother of Ricky Bishop (one of the three black men who you refer to dying in police custody). Have you?
I didn't pressure her for an opinion, or to support Paddick or anything. I respected her grief and listened to what she had to say.
Is it easy for one person to make a difference in the police force? :confused:
I think the fact that Brian has been booted out of his job just shows the true role the police play in society, there isn't space to be caring or to listen to people. The idea of having a police force is to oppress, when individuals in it try and do anything about it they're booted out.
I can't say I really have any feelings about Brian losing his job, and as I don't live in Brixton it isn't really anything to do with me.
:)
Cockney Rebel - yeah that's the wider picture. The whole point was that Paddick was different from that. Too different for the Met, which does, sadly, back up what you say.
GarfieldLeChat
06-12-2002, 15:59
Originally posted by Friz
The job of a police officer is to defend and serve the community in the detection and prevention of crime and the preservation of public order. The police operate most effectively as a body, not as individuals. The raising of any particular individuals personal profile for whatever motive is at best a distraction and at worse an obstruction. Lambeth is no different to any other inner city borough. The social problems are equal. Brian Paddicks claim to fame seems to centre around the softly softly approach in offences involving the possession of cannabis. This seems of course to have been a popular move locally but coppers are not employed to be popular they exist to enforce the law. It is the job of Parliament to decide if the possession of cannabis should be lawful or not. When laws are in place they should be enforced otherwise you risk the law appearing an ass. In a calculated move to attract publicity and raise his personal profile Paddick brought about his own demise. History shows this usually to be the end result. He did not lose his job through homophobia he was removed because he was seen in the public eye to condone criminal offences both in his professional and private life. This I am sure was not the case in reality. However because he chose to raise his own profile beyond what is normal for a police officer he has paid a price. Anything else is just sentimental nonsense
actaully it shows you know very little about law here the decsion as to whether the law has in fact been broken is down to either the senior officer in charge at the time or the arresting officer depending on the size and scale of the arrest. i would suggest you learn abit more and actually nick off on this one as it is not for a matter for nasty little trolls like you.
paddick for mayor
fudgefactorfive
06-12-2002, 16:04
Question for people that don't live in Brixton: does anyone else find this constant reference to "the Brixton community" and the constant refrain of "Do you live here? If not, what do you know about it?" that comes from Brixtonians when asked critical questions from non-Brixtonians, just a little bit spooky?
Originally posted by editor
That's a really pathetic cop out. ('scuse the pun) A politician would be proud of that evasion.
What's the matter, icepick - was the question too difficult or awkward for you to answer?
No not really. I'm just not gonna tell you where I live or justify myself to you.
If ya don't like it, well you know what you can do.
And for the record I have no interest in improving cop/community relations.
so if you have no interest in it, why are you making such a big deal in slagging someone of who was making things better?
This thread really brought a smile to my face.
Brian broke me up laughing with his quip "this is where I came in" as it's so true.
The issues remain the same even if the faces change.
However open Lee Jasper (another self elected community "leader") says Brian was investigating deaths in police custody, the deaths remain a serious concern.
Paying attention to Brian's posts here, you have noticed that he always was proud to defend the role of the police and their actions.
He was happy to be part of the co-ercive arm of the state during the miners strike and no doubt other strikes and has not wavered from carrying out the orders of his masters as is his job to do so.
He enforced the law whilst breaking it himself ( I belived his ex when he said Brian smoked dope) which is pretty low behaviour but no doubt typical of the police in general.
Whlst it has been endearing to have a police commander who is more open than his predecessor, radical he isn't because a dedicated police commander can't be.
The Paddick fan club here have been a little overwhelming in there support and admiration for the man. I can understand why this may grate on the nerves of some who take a different attitude to the police.
Many of the fan club however do live in brixton and want to see change occour so I also see they ain't going to wait for any supposed revolution. But wherever you live you have a right to an opinion on the subject.
Bye Brian!
TC
:) :)
Originally posted by fudgefactorfive
Question for people that don't live in Brixton: does anyone else find this constant reference to "the Brixton community" and the constant refrain of "Do you live here? If not, what do you know about it?" that comes from Brixtonians when asked critical questions from non-Brixtonians, just a little bit spooky?
Are you local?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/855000/images/_859894_league150.jpg
"And for the record I have no interest in improving cop/community relations".
That's a shame really, because it wasn't about us "brown-nosing". It was about them changing, and Paddick was trying to help that.
<edited to add: ROFLMFAO at Maestro :) :) :) >
fudgefactorfive
06-12-2002, 16:10
[hatboy] And this whole affair has really crystalised my attitude to the police - I've less faith in them than ever. :(
To be frank that sums up how I feel about this as well. Ditto media, ditto government.
Originally posted by TopCat
He enforced the law whilst breaking it himself ( I belived his ex when he said Brian smoked dope) Really. Have you met his ex then?
What evidence have you? Have you read his expensively-rewarded statement?
What exactly are you basing your 'belief' on?
Lock&Light
06-12-2002, 16:12
Like you, Jessie, I was first attracted to urban75 by the furore caused by Brian's first postings on these boards. Although I live in Holland, and have no right therefore to speak for Brixtonians, it's been obvious to me that most people recognise the quantum leap Brian's contribution to community policing could have been. (Children like icepick excepted)
I feel very sorry that the clock seems to have been turned back.
Brian, I wish you well in the future, and thank you for your great efforts. :)
Brian it is a serious blow to the residents of Lambeth, and the police who serve the area, that you have been forced out because of asinine prejudice. The bigots have succeeded in undermining the effective community policing that you were putting in place here.
Iceprick - don't be so fucking immature please.
Originally posted by icepick
And for the record I have no interest in improving cop/community relations. That figures.
It's always harder to come up with answers, isn't it?
But seeing as you can't handle that question, perhaps you'd like to tell me how you'd improve things around Brixton?
Go on. Use your brain and offer something constructive, pragmatic and realistic.
I dare you.
elia canetti
06-12-2002, 16:14
Hi Brian
I've lived in Brixton for 21 years, and l'll let you into a little secret.
We hate your guts so much!! When i was in Brixton last year at
a demo for a UNISON guy who had been sacked because of his
support for youths in Brixton which rucked with your cops in July 2001,
we went down coldharbour lane with about 50 people with onlookers
shouting "kill the pigs! Kill the pigs!". Thats is what decent Brixtonians
thing of the police and of you.
So you can stick your artifically created support up your arse
once Mike Slocombe finishes licking it.
EC
Originally posted by elia canetti
Hi Brian
I've lived in Brixton for 21 years, and l'll let you into a little secret.
We hate your guts so much!! When i was in Brixton last year at
a demo......
you live in brixton, yet you say 'when i was in brixton last year'
before you try and slag brian off with such shit at least think about what you are going to say.
Hey look everyone, elia canetti is back from rehab!
agricola
06-12-2002, 16:21
why is it people feel the need to display their avant-gardeness on this thread? :rolleyes:
Comiserations to the Commander for his enforced move, the way in which the likes of the Mail behaved was sickening, almost as much as the Yard abandoned you.
elia canetti
06-12-2002, 16:22
Yes I no longer live there. But like have said I lived there for
21 years!! I think I know what I'm talking about. And all my
friends who I have grown up with still live in that area, so I feel
I know what people think about brixton cops and the aforementioned
bastard brian!
EC
Yes I believed the expensively rewarded statement.
It rang true, unlike Brian saying after that he just allowed his lover to smoke it in their flat which did not ring true but was an admission of breaking the law whilst enforcing it on the people of lambeth...
:)
fat hamster
06-12-2002, 16:27
So sorry to see you finally go, mate. You've had an effect for good far beyond the boundaries of Lambeth. :)
Keep the faith! (((((((Brian)))))))
Elia - Who is "we"?
Who elected you? In this whole affair I've never said "we all think this" or "Brixton thinks that". What I have said is many people supported Paddick round here. They did.
Remember this. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1896527.stm)
"If someone had said just five years ago that black, white, young and old, straight and gay, liberal and anarchist would all be standing together giving a standing ovation to a police commander in Brixton, people might have said they had smoked one spliff too many. But there they were - the kind of cross-community gathering local politicians would give their right arm for..."
Watch this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/36591000/rm/_36591088_paddick2230_wrout_vi.ram
Ah memories, I remember laughing at that at the time because I was called an "anti-establishment voice" or something. I never told the BBC that. I guess it was because I had a hat on. :rolleyes:
<edited to add: bollocks, that video link didn't work, but it's the "the BBC's Penny Wrout" link on the right of the page in the first link if anyone's interested.>
cockneyrebel
06-12-2002, 16:31
Icepick you shouldn't use words like n***** in any context.....
As for Lee Jasper he would say that wouldn't he. He's very well off and part of the New Labour project, he's hardly gonna object to the fact that the police service serves the ruling classes and smashes up worker's movements if they fight back......
The police force under capitalism will always be racist because capitalism will always be racist and that's what it ultimately serves. That doesn't mean you don't fight for reforms, but ultimately it will always be racist....
Like I said the police have already started intimidating firefighters and would kill again like they did with the miner's strike if given the orders.....any police officer has to take responsibility for this including Brian. He was happy to serve for a force that murders black people, killed miners and smashed up communities and the fact of the matter is they'd do it again...
Originally posted by elia canetti
So you can stick your artifically created support up your arse
once Mike Slocombe finishes licking it.
EC Seeing as you've decided to make the imsults personal by posting up my full name, perhaps you'd like to level the playing field and share your real name?
I don't like being insulted by pathetic, spineless, anonymous cowards, you see.
Well I am glad we are returning to the very real issues of policing ni lambeth. Critical Judgement has been put somewhat on hold since brians move elsewhere.
I will say garfield made me chuckle with his call for Brian to be made mayor rather than Ken Livingstone...
Judgeing both by their actions, well I know who I will vote for...:D
Your name is all over this site! You allow people to register with nicknames..
Rememeber The Commander!
agricola
06-12-2002, 16:41
cockneyrebel,
not wishing to derail this thread any further, but do you have a source for your claim that the Police are already intimidating the striking Firefighters?
Originally posted by TopCat
Your name is all over this site! You allow people to register with nicknames.. That's no excuse. If someone's going to throw offensive insults at me and use my full name, then they've made it personal.
Originally posted by editor
That figures.
It's always harder to come up with answers, isn't it?
But seeing as you can't handle that question, perhaps you'd like to tell me how you'd improve things around Brixton?
Go on. Use your brain and offer something constructive, pragmatic and realistic.
I dare you.
For starters, legalise all drugs, provide free on the NHS for those who need them, provide housing for everyone by using the empty ones, higher minimum wage, bring unemployment benefit up to a standard to provide a decent living (not gonna be much left crime now is there?), build another tube station in Streatham so Brixton's not so fucking crowded every morning, put in another travelcard machine, let all of the nonviolent prisoners out of brixton prison, pay the firefighters + public service workers a decent wage, put the cops under democratic control of the community and forbid them from breaking strikes.
And how to pay for it? Tax the rich bastards.
But this isn't gonna happen, so what was the point of your question mr smart arse?
You called me "Fuckwit troll" after one of my first posts here.
I think you are genuinley fed up that brian won't be back and I accept that.
It's just many people don't think that he was much out of the ordinary, in fact I would go so far as to say that he was/is a cop, no more, no less with all the baggage that entails.
:)
cockneyrebel
06-12-2002, 16:49
agricola it was a piece that was on both London Tonight and Newsroom SE. The firefighters had a demo outside a control room cos a scab worker was working inside.....it was a peaceful protest and the police dispersed the demo saying they would nick all the firefighters and they physically intimidated them and pushed them. They then threatened the union rep with arrest, cos he was doing an interview outside the control room the next day.....
They killed miners (when Paddick was in the police), and would do it again tomorrow if given the orders.....
Paddick and any other police officer have to take responsibility for the fact that their job, as part of the police force, is to oppress workers and ultimately kill them if they get too militant, and oppress black and Asian communities, women (look at the sex industry), gay and lesbian communities and people who are poor and working class.....
Brian Paddick is part of a force that did this, does this and always will do it under capitalism.....
Originally posted by icepick
But this isn't gonna happen, so what was the point of your question mr smart arse? Just as I thought: you haven't got a single pragmatic, realistic thought in your head, only oceans of hate and Crass-for-beginners fantasies.
Paddick's already done more for the legalisation of cannabis (and harder drugs) than you'll ever achieve in your bitter life.
But your admission that you are unable to offer any form of alternative that would have benefited the Brixton community is duly noted.
It must be great living in your bubble, where you're free to criticise everyone while contributing absolutely fat zero yourself.
cockneyrebel
06-12-2002, 16:54
Editor I don't think a socialist society is pie in the sky (and neither do hundreds of millions of workers)......
I'm a TU steward in Brixton and have been helping the Brixton fire firefighters day in day out. I also helped in the campaign against racist murders by the police......
Just cos he got soft drugs semi-legalised that doesn't excuse the fact he serves a force that is racist, sexist, and anti-worker.....and the fact that he serves for a force that has murdered untold black people, miners and oppressed any militant strike that has happened.......
Well I thought he was a person trying to make movement in a stuck system.
Icepick - I like all of those ideas. If you said things like that more often here instead of just getting in fights it would be more interesting.
Agree with Cockneyrebel about Icepick's use of the "n" word.
Originally posted by editor
Just as I thought: you haven't got a single pragmatic, realistic thought in your head, only oceans of hate and Crass-for-beginners fantasies.
fwiw I've never heard a crass song in my life.
And why's legalising drugs and providing them free not pragmatic or realistically? They do it in Switzerland. And where was the hate in my suggestions?
Ha ha you do get wound up easily!
Paddick's already done more for the legalisation of cannabis (and harder drugs) than you'll ever achieve in your bitter life.
Ooooh well get you! Better go and end it all now then, eh?
But your admission that you are unable to offer any form of alternative that would have benefited the Brixton community is duly noted.
Com'on don't you think we really need an extra ticket machine in the station?
It must be great living in your bubble, where you're free to criticise everyone while contributing absolutely fat zero yourself.
:D :D
You're really trying hard with these insults.
Get a job, hippy.
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 16:58
It's a shame that the top brass have put such a spin on this... you did brilliantly in making Police-Community relations better. It is indeed a great shame, but I hope you can work your magic elsewhere. You have my deepest admiration and respect.
Manda
xxxxxx
Originally posted by cockneyrebel
Editor I don't think a socialist society is pie in the sky (and neither do hundreds of millions of workers I haven't said that at all
I was asking icepick what practical alternatives he could have offered right here, right now for the people of Brixton, and all I got back was a load of tub thumping that had absolutely nothing to do the topic being debated.
For the record, I'd actually like most of what he came up with too, but right now I'm trying to find out if he has anything to offer about this topic other than sheer hatred.
stupid kid
06-12-2002, 17:00
Originally posted by TopCat
Your name is all over this site! You allow people to register with nicknames..I've also been a victim of abuse of the internet from people I didn't know, and I assure you it's intimidating and infuriating.
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 17:01
Originally posted by icepick
You're really trying hard with these insults.
Get a job, hippy.
FFS can`t you grow up? :mad: I worked with better behaved 4 year olds............. :rolleyes:
why do you have to make everything into a personal vendetta, if you don`t like something dont reply to it, and leave it well alone.......
I posted here originally under my own name and I have got over, and moved on frombeing called a fuckwit troll...:)
Originally posted by icepick
Get a job, hippy. What's your job?
Have you got a job?
You sound like a Tory.
Tory!
Come on now, take a deep breath and go and have a pint down the albert...
we can do all this some more later!:D ;)
Originally posted by TopCat
and moved on from being called a fuckwit troll...:)
You've brought this up twice in the last ten minutes.
Are you getting nostalgic for those days?
;)
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 17:09
i find a lot of this difficult.
in my heart i'm an idealist, and my idealism utterly rejects the police force in its current form and what it is supposed to protect.
in many ways i fucking hate the police, and have been in incidents where nothing would have made me happier than visiting violence on them in return for the violence they have visited on me and mine.
the deaths in custody, the continual bullshit in the police in brixton and everywhere else sickens me.
and yet.. and yet..
is it better to draw an absolutist line in the sand and reject anything that falls short of it, in the meantime brooking no compromise or attempts to at least ease the pressure. or is it better to accept that Brian - for all the contradictions, for all the compromises to my ideals it involves, has for the period he was in charge improved things, if only a little, and did forge stronger links with the community.
OF COURSE he's still a cop. OF COURSE he's still going to defend indefensible actions. OF COURSE the police are capable of being vicious violent scum, and murderers to boot.
but the alternative to trying to make the most of someone as *comparatively* radical as Brian is to sit around and wait for things to get much much worse and wait for a revolution that probably isn't going to happen. it's the same kind of attitude that led certain socialist groups in the 80s to oppose things like rape crisis centres on the grounds that they were 'revisionist', that by improving peoples' lot, you were setting back the coming of the revolution.
if we do that - if we draw such distinct and immovable lines in the sand - and wait for our idealistic visions to flourish, we'll be climbing over the fucking rubble and bodies and burnt out cars in Coldharbour Lane all over again. and i for one can't be fucked with that. and nor can the people who live there.
icepick, i share some of your ideas, but not all. and Brixton is not there to be a battleground for your idealism, it's where people live and are sick of the shit that happens there. and if that means compromising our principles somewhat by encouraging a comparatively liberal cop rather than a fucking psycho, then so be it.
Originally posted by editor
What's your job?
Have you got a job?
You sound like a Tory.
Why thank you, madam.
I cross dead people off marketing databases, if you must know :)
[geez some people really can't take a joke! damn hippies]
[editor: url removed for a whole host of reasons I can't be arsed to go into. PM me if you want to know why]
Originally posted by Dubversion
and if that means compromising our principles somewhat by encouraging a comparatively liberal cop rather than a fucking psycho, then so be it.
I've never said paddick wouldn't be better than anyone else. Just am surprised by how everyone here creams their pants at the mere mention of his name.
"Wow a minor-murderer-scumbag instead of a psycho! Excellent, ur ugh aaaagh.... oh sorry I've just come"
Jessiedog
06-12-2002, 17:14
Total Word Dub!
:cool:
Woof
I don't know Brixton at all and it really has nothing to do with me what-so-ever. But I have read quite a lot of what Brian has written, and he does seem like a person who genuinely cares about others and wants to make a difference. And, to me at least, the whole affair shows just how shit the media, the police and the government in general are. :(
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 17:18
Originally posted by icepick
I've never said paddick wouldn't be better than anyone else. Just am surprised by how everyone here creams their pants at the mere mention of his name.
"Wow a minor-murderer-scumbag instead of a psycho! Excellent, ur ugh aaaagh.... oh sorry I've just come"
God you are a complete attention-seeking twat arn't you?
Dub- word!! :)
Originally posted by icepick
Just am surprised by how everyone here creams their pants at the mere mention of his name. Forget being a Tory. You've got a job made for you at the Mail!
Who needs troublesome facts when you can dish out ludicrous, Everest-sized misrepresentations and downright lies at the drop of a hat?
icepick you've thrown a wobbler cos Brian was getting more attention then you, so now climb back in your pram, be a dear and shut the fuck up. Let them get on with the real issue of this thread
There was no need for your outburst, it was just attention seeking fuckwittery.
And the insults you threw at Mike just proves this.
Your just a little boy with no real concept of whats going on, your stuck in some anarchist ideology and one day you will get a very big shock. You talk about a working class revolution, whats the bet you really have no clue what its like to be a working class person at the bottom of the shit heap? You come across as a middle class twat who likes to think he's right about everything. i think were the same age, and it makes it hard for me to understand how someone can be so imature. Come join the real world.
Mr Paddick, i dont live in Brixton, but there are many issues up here that are simular to those people in Lambeth face.
I dont like the police or what they stand for, but as a person you proved that there was a bit more too your tuppence worth than most. At least you tried.
Saxon Rillet
06-12-2002, 17:32
I find the obsequious and sycophantic attitude that accompanies everything Brian Paddick does revolting.
If he was a proper copper instead of a social worker, I'd have some respect for him.
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 17:36
Saxon- wtf are you on? He is the best thing the police has had for Public Relations for god knows how long.....
fudgefactorfive
06-12-2002, 17:42
Yeah but which kind of PR, manda? Absolutely Fabulous styley, or getting actual facts to actual people styley?
the voice of brixton eh? white middle class liberal hippy nonsense.
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 17:50
Originally posted by fudgefactorfive
Yeah but which kind of PR, manda? Absolutely Fabulous styley, or getting actual facts to actual people styley?
From what I have seen he has been getting the real facts to the people, but you don`t have to take my word for it.......
Originally posted by solano
the voice of brixton eh? white middle class liberal hippy nonsense. I don't recall anyone claiming to be the 'voice of brixton' here.
Perhaps you could point me in the direction of such a post - or are you just making it up as you go along?
freethepeeps
06-12-2002, 18:03
He is the best thing the police has had for Public Relations for god knows how long.....
Well only if the point was for the police to show itself up as a homophobic, secretive organisation, which doesn't keep its word to the public.
:p
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 18:08
a homophobic
erm I though Brian Paddick Was homosexual?!
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 18:09
manda, i think the point was that the police demonstrated their homophobia by the way they treated paddick
Miscellaneous
06-12-2002, 18:17
fair play dub, i`m bowing out now......
Over and out.
Manda
xxxxxxx
Originally posted by editor
I don't recall anyone claiming to be the 'voice of brixton' here.
Perhaps you could point me in the direction of such a post - or are you just making it up as you go along?
(from Cambridge International Dictionary of English)
forum
noun [C]
a place or an occasion for talking about a problem or matter esp. of public interest
The phone-in programme provides/is a forum for the public to express their views on different topics.
The World Economic Forum met in Switzerland.
In ancient Rome the forum was the area in the middle of the town for public business.
This is the 'Brixton Forum'?
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 18:21
what's your point, solano?
surely if this is the brixton forum, then it is a series of voices about brixton, not all in agreement. which still doesn't resolve what you said about the 'voice of brixton'.
there's no unanimity here.
fudgefactorfive
06-12-2002, 18:24
there's no unanimity here.
what on this thread? understatement :D
Friz,
How long did it take for you to become such an ill-informed dickwad?
Attempting to raise the debate on these boards to a level beyond the kindergarten seems like a hopeless task.
Debates, of whatever colour always have wider issues outside simple local predudice and misconception.
The root of social problems in Lambeth and all other inner city boroughs stem from long political indifference to poverty and deprivation. Who remembers the new Labour election slogan - 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime'. Just bullshit.
The fundamental principle of capitalism is a society geared to reward the 'haves'. The underclass are the enevitable result because not everyone can succeed in such a system. It's structured that way.
The Police are unpopular because they are a tool of that system. Should the system change then so would the Police. Am I stating the ovious here? Their job description is simply to maintain the status quo. Paddick knows that quite well. The moment he took the personal decision to step outside the parameters of his job description it made him a target. I make no value judgement about that, it was probably calculated. His personal ambitions are his own affair. However the blind faith in which others will follow are all to evident here. Paddick has learned his first lesson in politics, be different and for a while the crowd will follow like lemmings. However Lambeth does not need anymore political gimmickary. It needs financial investment from central government. Better social housing for those with no money. Good schools with good teachers. Jobs, real jobs. Afterwards there will be a little less to do for the likes of Mr Paddick. How can that be achieved democratically? By the middle class majority in the shires electing a government that will make them poorer by high taxation. In short, it's never going to happen. The alternative for the underclass is revolt and revolution, not escapism in chemical substances. The sooner the better. This may be an old fashioned concept but it's as true now as in was in seventeenth century France. France is a country of equals as a result of a painful revolution. Eventually there is really no choice.
fudgefactorfive
06-12-2002, 18:56
Attempting to raise the debate on these boards to a level beyond the kindergarten seems like a hopeless task
It does often seem hopeless but then again it does often happen.
And it is a two-way process remember.
Struwwelpeter
06-12-2002, 19:06
I'm not a Brixtonian but I am a Londoner. It's sad to see that you won't be back in Lambeth Brian.
I am sorry to say that it is a significant number of police who I meet (professionally and as a member of the public) who demonstrate unprofessional, uncaring, bigoted, violent or just plain fuck-witted behaviour.
However, Brian seems to be one of the much needed other sort - and to be fair I've met quite a few of them too. So I hope he will get a useful hands on job some place where he can start making a difference again.
I came to these boards because of the news coverage of Brian. Since then my long dormant activism has been re-awakened and I now find myself aligning with "anarchists" "hippies" and other "enemies of the state" on demos and in arguments with friends and colleagues. So if nothing else, Brian has been responsible for the recruitment of one more Urbanite.
And Icepick, what have you achieved? Well, you've got me to use the Ignore function for the first time. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by solano
(from Cambridge International Dictionary of English)
<snip>
In ancient Rome the forum was the area in the middle of the town for public business.
This is the 'Brixton Forum'? This is laughably desperate! And what a selective quote too!
Here's the dictionary definitions you seemed to have conveniently missed out - no doubt, purely by accident, eh?
"Forum:
A public meeting place for open discussion
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program"
And that's just about what it is.
At no point have I, or anyone else claimed to be, 'The Voice of Brixton' like you suggested and your attempts to prove otherwise have rather failed, haven't they?
Peter Matisse
06-12-2002, 19:32
As a resident of Lambeth for 24 years I am sorry to see you leave Brian.
There has been a lot of ill informed rhetoric on this thread by people who are too imature and too ill informed to do other than offer gratuitous insults.
The point about Brian is that he has worked within an institutionally bioted organisation and has tried to effect change through his own efforts within that organisation. It takes great courage to do that, it is easy to stand and shout on the outside knowing that you will not have to put your own words into practice.
To all those who are braying like donkeys about being glad Brian has gone, I say wait and see what will happen in Lambeth now. I can almost gaurantee that before the year is out you will be wishing he were still in charge.
As a gay man myself I am very proud of Brian, and I am very proud to have been part of the campaign in support of him.
I wish you well in whatever you chose to do in the future Brian, Lambeth will be a poorer place without you.
Jessiedog
06-12-2002, 19:39
Friz,
That's much better!
Maybe I was too quick to judge, for which I apologise. It's been a traumatic nite for me (what with having to fend off "reasonable" hunt supporters till grassy gets there 'n all).
I would say though that until the revolution arrives, Lambeth would (IMO) be better off with Brian at the helm of the police rather than anyone else.
Further, the legalisation/regulation of all drugs, would go a long way towards solving many of the UK's problems.
Welcome to the machine!
:)
Woof
Peter Matisse
06-12-2002, 20:01
Jessiedog
How right you are about drugs.:)
Originally posted by editor
This is laughably desperate! And what a selective quote too!
Here's the dictionary definitions you seemed to have conveniently missed out - no doubt, purely by accident, eh?
"Forum:
A public meeting place for open discussion
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program"
And that's just about what it is.
At no point have I, or anyone else claimed to be, 'The Voice of Brixton' like you suggested and your attempts to prove otherwise have rather failed, haven't they?
I left out the above because that's already glaringly obvious, my intention was to offer 'other' meanings for the word 'forum'. And why are you so obsessed with yourself michael? i used the term 'voice' to mean a collective voice.
Jessiedog
06-12-2002, 20:27
Peter,
For a fuller rant of mine, you could check half way down this (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26433&pagenumber=2) page.
Blessings.
:)
Woof
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 20:56
Originally posted by solano
I left out the above because that's already glaringly obvious, my intention was to offer 'other' meanings for the word 'forum'. And why are you so obsessed with yourself michael? i used the term 'voice' to mean a collective voice.
the voice of brixton eh? white middle class liberal hippy nonsense
by meaning collective voice, you still shoot yourself in the foot, solano, for the very reason that - as this thread ably demonstrates - there is no 'collective voice'. there are as many people against brian as for, it seems.
so your jibe was either directed at mike, or at a non-existent collective voice.
which is it?
quote: by meaning collective voice, you still shoot yourself in the foot, solano, for the very reason that - as this thread ably demonstrates - there is no 'collective voice'. there are as many people against brian as for, it seems.
so your jibe was either directed at mike, or at a non-existent collective voice.
which is it?
****
?
firstly i think there's alot more of importance on this thread than my 'jibe'. secondly, a collective does not necessarily agree with each other. obviously this forum is a collective of people who live/lived in, or know of Brixton. Reading through this thread i got the impression that it was in the majority, supportive of the OB/Brian & that most of these supportive comments bore similarities that i would consider to be a mixture of 'white' 'middleclass' 'hippy' or 'liberal' positions.
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 21:44
well as someone who offered qualified support to brian, which am i, solano? or hatboy? or mike?
do you actually have a fucking clue to back up your lazy stereotyping?
Originally posted by Dubversion
well as someone who offered qualified support to brian, which am i, solano? or hatboy? or mike?
do you actually have a fucking clue to back up your lazy stereotyping?
what's wrong with lazy stereotyping?
reforming the police i would consider to be a liberal position.
Dubversion
06-12-2002, 22:01
it probably is, and one i dont feel terribly comfortable with.
but if you read my previous post - posted as a non-hippy, non-liberal, certainly non-middle class Brixton (ish) resident, perhaps you might see why i see paddick as a very qualified and contextual good thing. not in an absolute, ideological sense, but in the sense of being preferable to whatever SPG-trained hardcase they replace him with.
elia canetti
06-12-2002, 23:59
Talking about representation, when was it decided and by
whom [Mike Slocombe?] that anarchists support Brian Paddick.
SOmething which was posted to the indymedia not long ago.
In my eyes anyone that supports cops no matter how liberal
the cop maybe is NOT an Anarchist. Maybe the Green Party/
legalise Canabis people liked Brian because it allowed them
to set-up there little rackets in brixton?
As for Lee Jasper, he wanted to put me in prison as one of the
supposed Mayday organisers. A fucking Uncle tom if I ever saw
one. And do the Brixton anarchists support Lee Jasper aswell?
Get your politics straight, Brian Paddick was a cop that believed
in Capitalism, believed in the state and was happy to make his
career out of the paramilitary style policing of his rank and file
piglets in Brixton.
EC
Solano said: "white middle class hippy bollocks" or something.
Listen Solano, if it was only the white middle class who supported Paddick, then I would not have supported him myself because this would have indicated that he wasn't getting it right.
I was at the meeting reported by the BBC thus:
"If someone had said just five years ago that black, white, young and old, straight and gay, liberal and anarchist would all be standing together giving a standing ovation to a police commander in Brixton, people might have said they had smoked one spliff too many. But there they were - the kind of cross-community gathering local politicians would give their right arm for..."
... and I also collected signatures for the petition in support of Paddick. As the BBC reported there was cross-community support.
Friz - I resent the implication that Paddick supporters are "lemmings". I am quite capable of thinking intelligently for myself and do. My support for Paddick was not unconditional, it was based on a rational assessment of him and his ideas.
I notice that my posts earlier in this thread aren't countered, perhaps that's because I'm talking sense.
Originally posted by elia canetti
Talking about representation, when was it decided and by
whom [Mike Slocombe?] that anarchists support Brian Paddick.Exactly where are you getting this bullshit from?
Do you actually read what gets posted here or do you just make it up to show what a clueless, cowardly twat you are?
Firstly: who the fuck are you? You keep name-checking me, so why don't you level the playing field and reveal your own name - or are anonymous, spineless snipes the best you can manage?
Secondly, what the fuck are you on about with all this 'anarchist' shit?
No one here has ever declared themselves a spokesperson for 'the anarchists' - least of all me - and no one has ever been so stupid as to declare that 'all anarchists support Paddick'.
So where are you getting this shit from? Some shitty tabloid paper?
Can't you think for yourself?
Gerry1time
07-12-2002, 01:05
As an occasional U75 poster and long time lurker, i can't believe that a thread like this has disappeared into non related and bitchy arguments between people.
From an internet and encouraging true democracy point of view, Brian posting his resignation letter just as a thread, and letting anyone anywhere respond is not a bad thing, to say the least. Who else EVER does that these days?
I couldn't care less if he were lib dem, tory or labour (trade union, socialist or new), pro anarchist/ anti anarchist/ guardian reading anarchist. He's published his resignation letter to people who will be affected by it, with the whole world watching...
For that, on a human being to human being level, he gains my deepest respect...
He also seemed to do a lot of good work in his area. Which surely is the best test of someone in their job?
Perhaps though, from what i read of his resignation letter, we shouldn't expect anything too bad. By stressing the importance of an ACPO level officer, he's ensuring things won't be as bad as some other choices. As for what he suggested in the letter about is future jobs. Well, i don't expect to have seen the last of him for a good long while. Martin Bell bacame an MP after all.....
gerry1time
Originally posted by solano
And why are you so obsessed with yourself michael? i used the term 'voice' to mean a collective voice. Strange how there seems to be so many posters ready to engage me on first name terms while they hide behind their anonymous log ins, isn't it?
If you want to call me my by my real name as oposed to my board name, then have the fucking bottle to include your own full name and personal details so that I can argue with you on an equal basis.
freethepeeps
07-12-2002, 01:14
Equal basis?
Are we all editors now?
I stayed out of this one, cos I know how hot and bothered you get on this topic ed!
Cartoon Cowboy
07-12-2002, 01:19
Top post! http://www.urban75.net/ubb/icons/icon14.gif
You should come out of your shell more often. :)
The Paddick affair is not of direct relevance to me (though it was what brought me to these boards) but I am saddened that he has been villified and undermined and see his removal (which is what this is) as a starkly retrograde step.
Paddick should be remembered for his courage and commitment to those he was supposed to be serving - the people of Lambeth and for the long-term good that his influence will surely have. I would ask the ones who seem so keen to heap scorn on him if they can really see no difference between him and most other senior police officers in the UK.
It's one thing to argue with me as another poster, but when I start getting personally attacked by name, it seems entirely reasonable for me to ask the same of those name-checking me.
Why else would anyone bother to post up my full name unless they were escalating it into a personal attack?
So if these individuals don't want to be accused of being spineless cowards, I would invite them to give me the same opportunity of knowing exactly who they are and what they do.
Seems fair to me....
Frizz, protecting & serving the public does not include strictly enforcing every single law to the detriment of society.
We have tons of stupid laws that aren't enforced. I think here, it's still illegal to commit adultry but nobody's been arrested for it for decades. Anal sex is still illegal in some states too, but nobody's enforcing that one either.
Drug laws are more harmful to society than the drugs themselves. And even in cases where the drugs have become harmful to someone, addiction is a disease, not a crime. Realizing that doesn't make you a bad cop, to the contrary, it makes you an enlightened & compassionate one.
Jessiedog
07-12-2002, 02:55
Word CC and Vix!
:)
Woof
ernestolynch
07-12-2002, 08:25
Asides - having been on the receiving end of 'icepick's childish rants on many an occasion, and also been called a 'fucking knacker' by Solano - its interesting to see their little tantrums on this thread.
I'm largely ambivalent to the issue of Paddick - it was good to see someone in the police who had slightly left-of-centre issues. Not all 'coppers are bastards' - many join up to actually serve their community, shock horror. A friend of mine joined up and she holds more left-wing opinions than many of my other friends.
However of course I am in favour of a violent communist revolution with *no mercy* for capitalists and their lackeys - but as that seems a long way off in this country, I'm happy to see piecemeal advances towards bettering our lives in the here and now.
Dub's post a few pages back was the one I agree with most.
To icepick - who seems to revel in the fact that he works in the odious marketing industry - what a help to the community he is....have you ever thought about it is like to work the streets in inner-city London - dealing with the flotsam and jetsam of capitalism's lashings? Investigating rape, assault and child abuse cases? Your call for an immediate 'stateless' society is utopian and as dead-end as nomoney.
In a violent communist revolution I reckon that there are many coppers, soldiers who would come over to the side of the people.
The post by Vixiha gets to some of the meat in the Paddick affair.
Successive governments in Britain do not have the bottle to legalise drugs. It would alienate the middle class vote on which they depend. So they tolerate a liberal interpretation in the enforcement of some laws and not others. Particulary those which suit them best. They use policemen like Paddick as scapegoats because they themselves are lacking moral and political courage, a cultural malaise in Britain.
Paddick could never have carried out his experiments in Lambeth without prior authorisation from the Home Office. They used him as a front man and when his private life became public there was a problem. He was no longer useful to their dubious end game. He lost moral credulity in the eyes of the middle class voters.
Why else would a newspaper like The Daily Mail bother with such a story? Answer - In order to damage the government to whom they are opposed. Their readership are the very voters on which Blair depends.
This so called new Labour government will stop at nothing to preserve their core support among middle England voters.
Policemen are paid to enforce and uphold the laws of Parliament not interpret them. After all the Law is supposed to represent the will of the majority. Cops are just tools in a process. If the have other personal ambitions they should have the courage to resign and do something more useful.
freethepeeps
07-12-2002, 09:55
They used him as a front man and when his private life became public there was a problem.
I think it's what led to his private life being exposed, as that happened after he'd already been attacked by the Police Federation.
Why else would a newspaper like The Daily Mail bother with such a story? Answer - In order to damage the government to whom they are opposed.
How about because they're knee-jerk reactionaries who are homophobic and hate stoners?
Stobart Stopper
07-12-2002, 10:01
I can't believe I am reading some of shit that has been posted here, the nasty stuff I mean. All Brian wanted to achieve by starting this thread was to explain why he's not returning to Lambeth. People with their own agendas have hijacked it and turned it into a hate-thread against the police in general.
I am all for free-speech and discussion but this has degenerated beyond that and I sometimes think that these so-called hardcore 'anarchists' are as bad with their bigoted attitude towards the police as the hardcore racists who say that 'all black people are bad because of their skin colour.'
It's the same way of thinking, never seeing the good in people.
Brian, you tried your best, just ignore these ignorant people, they know nothing.
freethepeeps
07-12-2002, 10:26
I am all for free-speech and discussion but this has degenerated beyond that
If its limited its not free!
I sometimes think that these so-called hardcore 'anarchists' are as bad with their bigoted attitude towards the police as the hardcore racists who say that 'all black people are bad because of their skin colour.'
Its not the best comparison, is it.
Coppers choose to become, and can equally choose to not be coppers.
Perhaps you haven't noticed how coppers feel about anarchists?
That's a lot of the reason Brian ended up in hot water. The "Anarchy is attractive" business.
Anyway, Brian knew the score, as he said earlier in the thread.
Personally, I will never forget his claim that the Met was the best in the world at dealing with protests :rolleyes: and his statement that the policing at the MFJ march was ok, when it clearly wasn't.
At the end of the day, the police force is the boot boy of the state.
Anarchy is incompatible with both those forms of social control.
I'm sure that there are "nice" people in all sorts of shit organisations. Does that mean I should love MacDs cos the bloke who fries burgers is an ok individual. Or that I should love Parliament cos a couple of Mps are ok to talk to over the dinner table? Or the World Bank because its got Mamphele Ramphele in it?
:cool:
Streathamite
07-12-2002, 11:02
FTP, he was y FAR the best top cop brixton ever had. FFS, learn enough pragmatism to live in the real world with the rest of us.
(bravely attempts to drag thread back on topic). Brian, I'm so sorry you've taken this decision. I feel honoured to have been involved in the ccampaign to get you back to lambeth - and gutted we've failed.
so this is what defeat feels like - horrible.
But you've made this decision for reasons as honourable as ever.
You're a star. Brixton will miss you. Dammit, I'll miss you!
sorry to hear this brian paddick.
i hope you will get a good job you will like again very soon!
and whatever (shit) has happened here in your career and for us people in brixton you already have made a big difference and will be viewed in the future and already now as a sort of pioneer!
once you get a stone rolling (saying?)......you can't stop it anymore!
freethepeeps
07-12-2002, 11:19
Its debatable as to whether he was Brixton's best cop ever.
Anyway, as Brian will now be involved in Intelligence Gathering for the Met, there's every likelihood I haven't heard the last of him, even if you lot have.
:p
FTP said -
"I'm sure that there are "nice" people in all sorts of shit organisations. Does that mean I should love MacDs cos the bloke who fries burgers is an ok individual".
No, it means that you should continue to dislilke McDonalds whilst respecting the "OK individual".
This is how I, and many others, viewed Paddick.
Speak as you find.
Saxon Rillet
07-12-2002, 17:47
I was saddened to discover that my post on this subject was deleted.
There was nothing homophpobic, racist or offensive in it. Merely a condemnation of the pro-Brian brigade - of which the editor is an humble cog in the machine - and it's failure to discern that Paddick might in some small way be responsible for his own demise.
We already live in an age dominated by the likes of The Guardian newspaper - once the radical mouthpiece of progress - which is nothing more now than a microphone for the Labour Party.
Denying free speech is the work of a despot, the hallmark of a fascist regime. Is that how you would like U75 to be known?
Both the Nazis and the Communists - the two most execrated types of political idealogues this world has known - were right in their methods of control. They knew that killing debate, opinion, the voice of the free, was a sure fire way of ensuring their vile hegemony was prevalent. I fear your actions have led you down this path.
What happened to my modest two line post? Where did it go?
I'm sorry to hear you're out of a job, Mr Paddick.Perhaps Barbara Roche has got a place for you in the multi-million pound tax-payer funded OTPOTSS department of the Government.
What are you talking about, SR? What was deleted? Your earlier post is still there...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=554555#post554555
Saxon Rillet
07-12-2002, 18:12
JHE, you're right. Absolute contrition on my part, especially to the editor who I suggested had deleted my post. I simply got lost and couldn't find it. I committed a grave misjudgment and for that I sincerely apologize to the editor and all the other posters who have taken part in this debate.
ernestolynch
07-12-2002, 18:26
Sympathetic as I am to the idea of a copper who smokes draw (after all is that not the issue here) lets not delude ourselves with the idea that the 5 or 6 people on this internet message board who live in Brixton (who are all blow-ins from outside of Lambeth/London) are not really representative of the so-called Brixton 'community'.
The 'Race' thread on General is a testament to that.
Stobart Stopper
07-12-2002, 18:42
Originally posted by ernestolynch
Sympathetic as I am to the idea of a copper who smokes draw
he didn't do that, get your facts right.
I think a lot of the posters here are rather missing the point.
Many people in Lambeth, and in the Brixton community in particular, have been working for the last twenty years to establish dialogue between police and community. We would argue that policing must take place with the consent of the community.
Innovations such as lay visiting, which started in Lambeth as part of that process, have been adopted nationally.
Brian Paddick's significance was that he recognised that working with the community was of major importance. What's been lost is not an individual copper, but a voice for an entire community.
Good luck in your future career, Brian. We'll miss you.
ernestolynch
07-12-2002, 19:03
I seriously doubt the validity and franchise of the self-proclaimed 'Brixton community' eveident on these boards. Where are the black people of Brixton represented here? The working class? The huge number of yuppie scum who are buying up flats at the rate of knots, sending long-time Brixtonians down the A23 to Streatham, Norbury and West Croydon? The white flight from Brixton to Carshalton and Sutton?
What about John Major?
The half-dozen internet-using web-design types who *currently* reside in Brixton do not constitute a 'community'.
Stobart Stopper
07-12-2002, 19:40
Originally posted by ernestolynch
What about John Major?
now, that IS funny!:rolleyes:
Originally posted by JHE
What are you talking about, SR? What was deleted? Your earlier post is still there... You know if there's one thing that REALLY pisses me off, it's when individuals launch into outrageous, slanderous rants accusing me of "denying free speech", being a "despot" and "showing the hallmarks of a fascist regime" only for them to later realise that they got their facts completely and utterly wrong.
And what was the terrible 'despotic', 'fascist' act I was supposed to have committed?
Heck, Saxon thought I deleted one precious post of his!
Which - it turns out - I hadn't touched - it was still there, untouched. What a clown!
It seems ol' Sax was so blinded by clueless, knee-jerk indignation he couldn't muster the energy needed to use the simple search facility provided on every page.
I'm going to go to the pub to think about this, but don't be surprised if you end up being banned, Saxon.
I *really* don't like having to read a pageful of spiteful, hateful bile aimed at me, neither do I enjoy half baked lectures on the evils of Nazism, especially when it's delivered by an abusive big mouth who can't even get the simplest of facts right.
I'm going to go to the pub to think about this, but don't be surprised if you end up being banned, Saxon.
Respect to all who have debated the issue properly and
objectively on this thread. I agree with Dub's post most, and I think ernest's post made a lot of sense too, likewise hatboy who knows of what he speaks.
More when I'm less drunk.
ernestolynch
07-12-2002, 22:32
That's the first time I've ever been praised.
As for Saxon - he's not worth the skin on anyone's fingertips.
I'm still chortling over his tragically misguided onslaught:
"Denying free speech is the work of a despot, the hallmark of a fascist regime. Is that how you would like U75 to be known?"
...followed by his equally misguided historical lecture:
"Both the Nazis and the Communists - the two most execrated types of political idealogues this world has known - were right in their methods of control. They knew that killing debate, opinion, the voice of the free, was a sure fire way of ensuring their vile hegemony was prevalent. I fear your actions have led you down this path."
Of course, the real tragedy is that the guy is so full of himself that he immediately assumes that the disappearance of his single post must signify a complete volte-face of my every one of my political beliefs.
That's how 'dangerous' he believes his dull and ineffectual post was.
What a dreamer!
Brian: Just to say good luck and thanks for making a difference. Whoever your sucessor is, they know what they will be measured against. And the democratic deficit in policing will not go away. Your comment "Were the Commissioner and his senior colleagues to be pressurised, against their own professional judgement, into reversing their decision, I could not be sure that the London Borough of Lambeth would get the level of support from Scotland Yard that it needs....", hardly inspires confidence!
As for the rest of this thread. Sad to see how many people view this issue through the narrow prisms of Urban75 or of their own ideologies. They should get out and about more and spend some time with real people in the borough.
(Incidentally, cockneyrebel, where did the Met kill miners? Sounds like your source is the same as the person on the Miners Strike thread who announced that Orgreave was a working colliery into which "scabs" were being bussed!)
maximilian ping
08-12-2002, 02:27
best thread i've read on u75. pure class.
i woke up in australia with the worst hangover ever. my hand hurts after a bouncer threw me down some stairs. but after reading all this stuff i'm getting sober.
i was at a meeting of the lambeth community-police group after paddick was nobbled by mail on sunday. the black community had loads of good things to say about him. so its not just middle class bleeding lib whities who like him.
icepick etc. what a bunch of tuff urban warriors! people who hate all coppers should be buried alive, preferably with any children they have, to aid the gene pool. i suppose if you lot of snobs were getting slowly kicked to death in an alley you would refuse a copper's help. fucking freaks
good effort brian
grubby local
08-12-2002, 04:07
a general :( .
Mr Ping, i seem to remember you from somewhere?
gx
GarfieldLeChat
08-12-2002, 11:57
Originally posted by maximilian ping
icepick etc. what a bunch of tuff urban warriors! people who hate all coppers should be buried alive, preferably with any children they have, to aid the gene pool. i suppose if you lot of snobs were getting slowly kicked to death in an alley you would refuse a copper's help. fucking freaks
one hopes that ice pick would stay true to his word and say fuck off copper to his last breath ....i wonder if the throey could be tested ;)
Ernesto said:
"Sympathetic as I am to the idea of a copper who smokes draw (after all is that not the issue here) lets not delude ourselves with the idea that the 5 or 6 people on this internet message board who live in Brixton (who are all blow-ins from outside of Lambeth/London) are not really representative of the so-called Brixton 'community'.
The 'Race' thread on General is a testament to that".
I see your point, but, no, it wasn't about draw, it was about (as ats pointed out) what has come to be called "policing by consent".
5 or 6 people on Urban75 eh? It was much bigger than that, and it didn't centre around U75. It happened in Brixton, the real-life Brixton.
Go and view the BBC video of the March meeting at the Town Hall. And then there was the 5000 signature petition.
Also Ernesto, regarding this "currently reside" thing. Listen, I may originally be what you call a "blow-in" to South London (some 18 years ago) but Brixton is more home to me now than anywhere has ever been and I'm not "currently residing". I live here and I'm staying.
I don't live in a bubble you know. I talk to people. And defer to those who know more than I do. I have a variety of friends including people born and raised in Brixton. I didn't ignore their opinions throughout this whole affair.
I have looked at most of this thread.I thought Dubversion post was the one I am most in agreement.I thought some of the attacks on the editor were below the belt.This site does provide a genuine forum where a range of views can be expressed.I am also impressed how well the site works on a technical level(try using LBLs site etc for a comparison and also LBLs own "forums").All this is down by a lot of voluntary unpaid effort.
I was talking to a friend yesterday she pointed out that the Daily Mail is influential with sales of two million(therefore the readership would be higher).It seems to me that this country is run by middle England with an obsequious new Labour government in tow.They would regard anyone who lives in Brixton as dirt.Which saddens me that some of the argument on this thread has got so heated.The average middle Englander would not differentiate between say Hatboy and Icepick.
chegrimandi
08-12-2002, 15:53
bloody hell, that was a bit of a bar-room brawl, now wasn't it...
I know very little of the subject matter but for the record, it seems sad to me that people that try and do something positive for a community should be subjected to such vitriolic abuse....
For example, I think people (I know I do) use this site as a very good source of information, on a huge range of contemporary topics. The person/people that is/are involved with running the site do not deserve to get abused for their bloody beliefs and agendas.....there are people that criticise from afar and people that try and do stuff to change things - this is much harder than the first option because more often than not you will fail - people in general don't like failure...
icepick you seem very bitter and angry, I suggest you move on matey....! YOU BIG NUTTER
:)
I seriously doubt the validity and franchise of the self-proclaimed 'Brixton community' eveident on these boards.
Why? do you think we're pretending to live here, or someone is controlling our views. Do you honestly think this whole Paddick thing has been orchestrated by people who've just arrived in Brixton on the wave of the latest trendiness? Don't be so silly.
I don't think that there has been any claim that the people who natter here represent any particular 'community'. We represent ourselves, nothing more than that, and have as much right as anyone to discuss our local policing.
As for being blow-ins, is it really necessary to be born here to have a view? A very large proportion of both Lambeth and London residents are migrants of one sort or another. So what. I don't know where you live (or why you're interfering in our parochial issues), but if only people born there are entitled to a view then is it any wonder the brightest leave at their first opportunity and most don't come back. They, we, live in the big city because it's not run by people who expect their grandparents to validate any fresh opinion.
[for the record I was born in London and first moved to Brixton in 1973]
I really appreciate all you guys entering the debate. The thing about views that you strongly disagree with is they make you think. They make you question what you do and what you believe in. That has got to be healthy. I hope none of you are completely unchanged by what has been said here.
At the end of the day, I just wanted to try to make things better within the limited sphere in which I operated. I will leave the revolution to you guys!
I have a realistic view of the police, not an idealistic one. At this point in history I believe I can achieve more good as a serving experienced police Commander than an ex-cop. Rest assured, you have not heard the last of me. There is more work to be done.
As one of the many people who first heard of u75 from a newspaper article about you, Brian Paddick, I'd like to say that you seem a very sensible person.
I first looked at the debates on these boards just out of curiosity, to see if there was any truth in the Evening Standard's version of events, that a senior police officer was oddly sympathetic to anarchism etc. What I found, apart from some unexceptional comments about anarchism, was that a (by then famous!) police officer had wanted to engage with others about what policing priorities should be.
I'm not going to look up the archives to find your list, but I remember that it seemed exactly the sort of thing that any decent person who knows of the crime problems in London should support.
You say that you had long wanted to be involved in the policing of Lambeth and this is no longer an option. I'm sorry that it didn't work out and suspect that some people were out to get you because you were seen as unusually liberal and/or because you're homosexual.
Best of luck to you, and I hope that your sort of view of what the police in London should be concentrating on prevails.
maximilian ping
08-12-2002, 20:59
Mr Local, i believe we have met. Lahore was it? 1944? wot wot.
Frontline may be joining us soon. teehee.
mx :D
Clapham Omnibus
09-12-2002, 05:32
Cheers Brian for a job well done,
Brixton could have been a very volatile place. But both you and your officers averted on many occasions confrontation.
That is not to say that when a firm hand was needed it was missing.
Your diplomatic approach not only gained the respect of a troubled community but I think the country, police forces and urban communities further afield.
It gets my gripe that some of the posters on this thread have put their typing fingers to work before the have engaged their brains.
Somehow I do not think we have heard the last of Brian Paddick.
Good luck in your career with best wishes and thanks.
Ps Now if you can get the 156 bus service in shape you may make the new years honours list next year ;) :)
IntoStella
09-12-2002, 12:54
Originally posted by grubby local
a general :( . (Hi Grubby). I've been off the boards for a few days and I need an aspirin after reading through all this!
AHEM. I want to say this (sorry if it has already been said and I missed it among the screeds of abuse) : Absolutely top respect to those people who put so much time, money and effort into the lambeth4paddick campaign -- especially Peter Matisse, who has been amazing. Hats off to you all for not being cynical, sneering gits and for working so hard for something you really believed in. Things have not turned out as we would have wanted but that does not detract from your achievement.
I wonder if Mr Paddick could provide answers to some questions that have been bothering me.
Did reported crime drop during his tenure at Brixton?
Were there less instances of public disorder?
Did the police find witnesess more willing to co-operate in
investigations?
My point is that if as a result of his more liberal regime some of these matters came about then he can claim success. Scotland Yard could adopt the same policies in other areas. It may well be a useful tool to move the government towards the legalisation of soft drugs. A positive response from his creative policy.
Are not Police Commanders judged like all other workers and managers on results not popularity?
Friz: You can find data relating to the period of the cannabis trial here (http://www.lambeth4paddick.org/html/cannabis_trial__the_facts.html).
You can find data for Lambeth Street Crime (street crime is often used as a barometer) here (http://www.lambeth4paddick.org/myhtml.htm)
Alternatively, you can visit the Met's website (http://www.met.police.uk/crimestatistics/index.htm). There are more statistics than you can shake a stick at and you can do your own analysis!
You could, of course, visit here (http://met-police.tmpw.co.uk) and change the organisation more quickly from the inside ................. go on! go on! go on!
Regards
Eddie E
(ducks and apologises quickly as Met recruitment may not be an U75 priority!)
(Edited to add apology)
Thanks Pooka, useful links.
communication is great!
Brian meets Michael Buerk on The Choice, R4 9am & 9.30pm tomorrow
Icepick once claimed here that he had a relative killed in police custody... the post was hastily deleted but I wonder if that has any bearing on the vehemence of his posts... if it's true of course...
Brian, I never met you, although there have been many, many things I have done in Lambeth over the years that you could have sent me down for, some of them pretty tasty too, but if you were genuinely looking into reducing the sentences for victimless crime like pill popping or smoking a bit of wacky-baccy and concentrating on the armed gangs running thousands of pounds a week then you have nothing but my respect.
The treatment you got in the press was shitty to begin with, but I think after a while people were "so what?" and more supportive...
There's nobody these days who hasn't been in the presence of a spliff at some time or another.
It's about time this country grew up, and the powers that be find the time to bring our licensing laws up to scratch with Europe, a 3am drink-up time, then perhaps there wouldn't be so many people doing drugs - the community would benefit and the tax returns too would pay for more late nights in the Mayfair bars for those who make the rules.
The law is an ass. This matter proves it irrefutably.
I find it such a shame, that the people who choose to accuse and stereotype are the last people to provide an alternative solution.
This includes Icepick and the Daily Mail.
Anyway Brian, I thought your ex-boyfriend Rollenau or whatever his name was acted like a complete cunt, so I fear I might have to smack him in the face if ever I see him, which although against the law would surely be a crime worth turning a blind eye to... a bit like the spliffs, eh?
;)
Be lucky.
Jessiedog
10-12-2002, 00:11
Eddie,
I checked the link, but there was nothing about K9 recruitment.
:(
;)
Woof
Jessiedog, I think you're wonderful! :D
Stobart Stopper
10-12-2002, 07:37
Originally posted by Jessiedog
Eddie,
I checked the link, but there was nothing about K9 recruitment.
:(
;)
Woof
bloody right, Jess, the Met is doggist.:mad: :D
Grrrrrrrrrrrr! I've taught myself to keep posting him/her and he/she but keep forgetting to allow for Jessiedog.
The Met, however, is better at this than me.
Jessiedog,
Especially for you, please join, Go on! go on! Go on! ..... your door is through here (http://www.met.police.uk/dogs/index.htm) with more details than are given to human applicants.
For example no human would face advertising paragraphs like those available through the 'Breeding' link ............... Stud Dogs, Brood Bitches and Artificial Insemination!!!!!
You live in a challenging world, Jessiedog!
Regards
Eddie
P.S. does this one (http://www.met.police.uk/history/policedogs2.htm) make your day?
WHSpliff.net
10-12-2002, 09:51
Originally posted by Friz
Brian Paddicks claim to fame seems to centre around the softly softly approach in offences involving the possession of cannabis. This seems of course to have been a popular move locally but coppers are not employed to be popular they exist to enforce the law. It is the job of Parliament to decide if the possession of cannabis should be lawful or not.
Above you suggest that the 'Lambeth Experiment’ was down to just Brian - and it should have been down to Parliament, yet below you claim the Home Office (servants of Parliament) used him as a 'front man' :confused:
Originally posted by Friz
Paddick could never have carried out his experiments in Lambeth without prior authorisation from the Home Office. They used him as a front man ....
The 'Lambeth Experiment’ was run with full approval from both Scotland Yard & the Home Office, that is of public record - no question of Brian being used.
Originally posted by Friz
My point is that if as a result of his more liberal regime some of these matters came about then he can claim success. Scotland Yard could adopt the same policies in other areas. It may well be a useful tool to move the government towards the legalisation of soft drugs.
The point being that the 'Lambeth Experiment’ was one of the considerations in respect of the re-classification of cannabis, together with the Home Affiars Select Committee report and the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs' report.
It was a 'government sponsored' experiment, which will be rolled out across the country next year - or don't you read the news?
As a result of the ‘Lambeth Experiment’, in which police ceased arresting people for cannabis possession, levels of street crime have been cut by 35 per cent and burglaries by more than 8 per cent.
The scheme has not transformed the district into a haven of drug dealing, as critics have claimed, however class A drug arrests increased substantially - 159 compared with 96 for both cannabis & class A drugs, in a similar period last year.
** Metropolitan Police report (March 2002)
Total respect to all 'thinking' coppers, and inrespect of drugs - extra respect to both Brian & Eddie!
And to those that made personal attacks on the editor - if you don't like him/his site - why not fuck off & set-up your own? ;)
Originally posted by fudgefactorfive
This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. It's like saying that we can never have a gay prime minister because it would get other members of the Labour Party into trouble.
Exactly - It sounds like a cop out. Pardon the pun. :rolleyes:
I dunno whether to be sad that we've lost a fight, or pissed off that we're giving up.
While I realise this is someone life we all talking abou about it seems really that fucked up that for the first time in living history a community get behind the cops and media sticks it nose in, the head coppers panic at the thought of scandel and the world once again ends up putting it's head in the sand.
I'll respect Mr Paddick's decision to bow out, like I said it is his life.
But I'll never respect the police authority again, I reallly don't see how the OPINION of a single newspaper should make any difference. Surely the opinions of the people of lambeth and in particular, brixton, are the voices that matter, not some jumped up arse of a rag.
Very very fucked up.
free spirit
10-12-2002, 14:00
<not entering into the arguements, and not brixton resident or even close>
Brian you have my respect as a high ranking police officer who was actually prepared to engage the community (and others) in debate on issues that virtually everyone else had been shamefully ducking for far too long.
I know good people who've done time for canabis, and exstacy (I know that pills weren't part of the official agenda, but i lived in hope that a sensible policy may follow) and had their lives fucked up for no good reason. I had a good mate who died form heroin leaving a pregnant girl friend to bring up their kid alone. He got hooked on heroin in prison... The drugs laws are so blatently wrong, and undoubtedly part of the problem rather than the solution... I applaude anyone who has the courage to put their neck on the line to try to affect change for the better.
I'm sorry you got fucked over, but I reckon you probably had a fair idea what you might be getting yourself in for - so respect to you for not bowing under the pressure. Good luck for the future, for what it's worth I agree that you're likely to be able to have a more positive influence from the inside than from the outside. Don't let the bastards grind you down;)
Just out of interest where are you being moved to? Someone earlier mentioned you are going over to police intelligence - is this right? If so maybe it will be the first time that the 2 words weren't an anachronism, I just hope that you still retain the ability to use your intelligence to prioritise etc. Have a good laugh at my file for me won't you - I'm the one who got his police photo taken with R